Not A Word Of Thanks From 'Xenophobic' Man
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I'm not sure how many here have lived overseas, but if you have you would notice the difference between Singapore and a lot of other countries.
In places like England and Australia, if you're walking down the street and you make eye contact with a stranger, the customary response would be to greet the other person. In Singapore, a similar situation would result in either people averting their gazes or one party going, "what are you staring at" and proceeding to massage the other party with his knuckles.
Have a think about this and see what it says about Singapore.
What's all this crap about "We are Singapore, Singaporeans" that gets dusted off and dragged out once a year? If society is operating in such a fashion and the government wants to build a sense of nationhood after a measly 41 years, you've got to really wonder what those guys are smoking.
Sense of nationhood my arse - two strangers from the same country can't even go down the street without getting into a fight, and we want to talk about Singapore as "one united nation, regardless of race, language or religion"?! It's not a nation - it's a badly-mixed hodgepodge of individuals.
Pull the other leg - it's all a bloody bad joke. -
Really, what's is the great brouhaha over this trivial matter?
Who knows, the "rude" man may have something on his mind, or he was really on a rush to an errand, hence he did not say thanks. Who is to know?
We have all been to other big metropolis in the world like London or New York. My experience of London is worse. People push and shove each other out of the way in busy streets. Face it, life in big cities is like that. It is more impersonal, and in an unforgiving city like Singapore, where healthcare is not subsidized and failing can have grave consequences for yourself and your family, people are more uptight.
Anyway, so the guy did not say thank you, it's not perfect, but is that SUCH a big deal? -
So saying something is worse makes things all better?
I had a great time in London, so I don't quite see things your way. Yes, it was a busy place, and I dare say it's busier than Singapore, but even then I still did strike up conversation with a few people, and people I encountered on the street said hello even though they were strangers. That's more than I can say for Singapore. -
Sort of self-consolation.Originally posted by Gedanken:So saying something is worse makes things all better?
Like saying Spurs are gay because they got Aaron Lennon cheaply while Liverpool misses out on him.
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Nope, as I said, it is not perfect, but it is no big deal.Originally posted by Gedanken:So saying something is worse makes things all better?
As for you being able to make friends in London, that's great. It just goes to show there are both nice and not so nice people everywhere. The latter probably predominates in big crowded cities. Mr Aggrieved who wrote that letter to forum may have kept the door open for someone who thanks him profusely in a week's time. Who knows? -
though appalling and uncalled-for the incident was only an isolated case. surely the polite and kind Mr Buxton wouldn't suspect the 0.3 million people in Singapore who are not asked to 'smile' for the 'world' to behave like Mr Xenophobic?Originally posted by dragg:There are about 4.3 million people in Singapore. 'Four million smiles' leaves about 300,000 unaccounted for.
Brendan Buxton -
it's sad that our society is deteriorating and we dont even realize it...
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Can I know what's your race? I've been to London for work and other european and american cities as well. As a Chinese, I can tell you racial discrimination is still very much alive.Originally posted by Gedanken:So saying something is worse makes things all better?
I had a great time in London, so I don't quite see things your way. Yes, it was a busy place, and I dare say it's busier than Singapore, but even then I still did strike up conversation with a few people, and people I encountered on the street said hello even though they were strangers. That's more than I can say for Singapore.
Even with my european and american colleagues when we are out for lunch, dinner or walking along the streets, there would be stares, scorns and sometimes snide remarks and racial slurs.
But I just brushed it off because that was THEIR country. If that's the way they act, who am I to critize them? It's not my job to educate them. Its their goverments'.
So this Buxton fella shouldn't be critisizing Singaporeans and making fun of the 4 million smiles campaign. Who is he to do so. Why is he using standards of wherever he came from and impose it on us?
Yes, we do have some ways to go on the politeness and graciousness of our society. But he should get off his high horse and lose that "holier than thou" attitude. Maybe he will expect us to bow next time.
Different countries have different cultures. Can we improve? Yes. Should he critisize us just because we have different standards? Absolutely not. -
Wonder how much older is he compared to the lovely singaporean he married. 20, 30 years?
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To each his own then. I'm Chinese, and my girlfriend who was in London with me at the time was Indian, and I didn't get any such treatment. I haven't had any such experiences stateside or in Australia (where I've been for the past 12 years) either.Originally posted by Anycall:Can I know what's your race? I've been to London for work and other european and american cities as well. As a Chinese, I can tell you racial discrimination is still very much alive.
Even with my european and american colleagues when we are out for lunch, dinner or walking along the streets, there would be stares, scorns and sometimes snide remarks and racial slurs.
But I just brushed it off because that was THEIR country. If that's the way they act, who am I to critize them? It's not my job to educate them. Its their goverments'.
So this Buxton fella shouldn't be critisizing Singaporeans and making fun of the 4 million smiles campaign. Who is he to do so. Why is he using standards of wherever he came from and impose it on us?
Yes, we do have some ways to go on the politeness and graciousness of our society. But he should get off his high horse and lose that "holier than thou" attitude. Maybe he will expect us to bow next time.
Different countries have different cultures. Can we improve? Yes. Should he critisize us just because we have different standards? Absolutely not.
Why shouldn't xenophobic man have been criticised? Any mature person of any culture would have been embarrassed by his own lack of manners and said, "Oh, whoops, thank you". Instead, our friend goes the completely opposite direction and makes a bad situation worse for himself. I think that deserves criticism, don't you? -
If it is indeed the government's job to educate people, then Xenophobic Man's "4 Million Smiles" behaviour is proof positive that the government has failed at its job of education, so Buxton should be criticising it. It's only logical by your line of reasoning.Originally posted by Anycall:It's not my job to educate them. Its their goverments'.
So this Buxton fella shouldn't be critisizing Singaporeans and making fun of the 4 million smiles campaign. -
a lot of people marry foreigners their age.Originally posted by tqw:Wonder how much older is he compared to the lovely singaporean he married. 20, 30 years? -
reading the exchanges on this thread so far, I am afraid your statement is fair and accurate.Originally posted by GHoST_18:it's sad that our society is deteriorating and we dont even realize it...
Holding doors opened for ppl behind, pulling chairs at dinning table for ladies, giving up seats on train for elders, saying thank you or even sorry have all the while been gestures of courtesy from western cilivilzation. Countries in the east are learning and improving in varying degree.
I don't see japs holding doors for anybody but wherever I go people bow at me.
I know how the koreans treat their ladies but seats on reserved for elders and pregnant are never occupied by those who are not.
Even in China I see strong emphasis on giving up seats next to the train for the old, the very young, sick, pregnant, and the handicapped, and generally this is observed.
In Taiwan, at least I receive warm welcome whenever I go into any shop or restaurant, whether I buy anything or not.
It is only in HK that I think there are too many people, rushing and have no time for any form of courtesy for me to observe.
Singapore is the worse, not only there is little expression of courtesy, there are so many bloody excuses for discourtesy.
Its about time Singaporeans wake up, if you are not taught manners and courtesy, go home ask your father and mother, and the school teachers, not the government.
Its about time the government wakes up, academic and technical skills only turn our citizens into economic tools, not civilized gentlemen and ladies. Moral and civic lessons are totally absence in schools, and at homes.
If we have bad experience in London, New York, it does not make our bad behaviors at home legitimate. On the contrary, lets not let this happen in our country.
There is no need to argue for or against what Mr. Buxton said, just "Sorry for the bad encounter, Mr. Buxton, hope you meet better Singaporean the next time." Lets hope he does not take long to meet a courteous Singaporean. -
Am i the only one who realises that the Buxom or what's-his-face is demanding a "thank you" and we are all passing it off as good manners?
When I hold doors open for others, I'm not looking for sex, not looking for recognition, not looking for thanks. All I want is to make someone else's life a little easier.
I've been snubbed before by haughty women when I held doors open for them. Granted that doesn't feel good, but nevertheless a word of thanks is not demanded of them. They can snub me, thank me or lay me. There are not set rules to follow.
Good manners is also not demanding anything off others. At the end of the day, both what's-his-face and Mr xenophobic are not polite.
Talk about superior attitude of the caucasians.
Are we to smile and bow and greet everytime we see a caucasian? We are not waiters, not their slaves. The more polite amongst us will extend their courtesy to them, the more ill mannered ones will not. I'm not saying this is good, nor am I endorsing poor manners. All I'm saying is that things like that happen in every country.
Malaysia "truly asia" has a very high crime rate and a police force that doesn't go the extra mile. Thailand "land of a thousand smiles" have people who haven't smiled in years having been beset with problems such as poverty. The "beacon of freedom" USA have got whites against blacks (still) and their pompous and arrogant attitude is quite famous in europe. The "Gentlemen" from UK are known as anal-retentive and "stuffy".
So are we any better or worse than others? -
The racial issue, apart from that babboon declaring himself xenophobic, is a red herring.Originally posted by SilverPal:Am i the only one who realises that the Buxom or what's-his-face is demanding a "thank you" and we are all passing it off as good manners?
When I hold doors open for others, I'm not looking for sex, not looking for recognition, not looking for thanks. All I want is to make someone else's life a little easier.
I've been snubbed before by haughty women when I held doors open for them. Granted that doesn't feel good, but nevertheless a word of thanks is not demanded of them. They can snub me, thank me or lay me. There are not set rules to follow.
Good manners is also not demanding anything off others. At the end of the day, both what's-his-face and Mr xenophobic are not polite.
Talk about superior attitude of the caucasians.
Are we to smile and bow and greet everytime we see a caucasian? We are not waiters, not their slaves. The more polite amongst us will extend their courtesy to them, the more ill mannered ones will not. I'm not saying this is good, nor am I endorsing poor manners. All I'm saying is that things like that happen in every country.
Malaysia "truly asia" has a very high crime rate and a police force that doesn't go the extra mile. Thailand "land of a thousand smiles" have people who haven't smiled in years having been beset with problems such as poverty. The "beacon of freedom" USA have got whites against blacks (still) and their pompous and arrogant attitude is quite famous in europe. The "Gentlemen" from UK are known as anal-retentive and "stuffy".
So are we any better or worse than others?
The issue here is the utter and complete lack of manners common to Singaporeans, and the apathy of other Singaporeans to this glaring problem, as reflected in this thread.
Think about it - if it was Lim, or Selvakumar or Osman instead of Buxton, would the substance of the letter been any different? Let's no go barking up the wrong tree here.
And as I've said before, pointing out the faults of others does absolutely nothing to make oneself look better. It's how children try to cover up their own misbehaviour. -
yep. and a good fren married a Texan 4 yrs younger. she's chinese singaporean working in texas at tt time lah.Originally posted by dragg:a lot of people marry foreigners their age.
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Well said, sg. You've gotten right to the crux of the matter.Originally posted by sgdiehard:reading the exchanges on this thread so far, I am afraid your statement is fair and accurate.
Holding doors opened for ppl behind, pulling chairs at dinning table for ladies, giving up seats on train for elders, saying thank you or even sorry have all the while been gestures of courtesy from western cilivilzation. Countries in the east are learning and improving in varying degree.
I don't see japs holding doors for anybody but wherever I go people bow at me.
I know how the koreans treat their ladies but seats on reserved for elders and pregnant are never occupied by those who are not.
Even in China I see strong emphasis on giving up seats next to the train for the old, the very young, sick, pregnant, and the handicapped, and generally this is observed.
In Taiwan, at least I receive warm welcome whenever I go into any shop or restaurant, whether I buy anything or not.
It is only in HK that I think there are too many people, rushing and have no time for any form of courtesy for me to observe.
Singapore is the worse, not only there is little expression of courtesy, there are so many bloody excuses for discourtesy.
Its about time Singaporeans wake up, if you are not taught manners and courtesy, go home ask your father and mother, and the school teachers, not the government.
Its about time the government wakes up, academic and technical skills only turn our citizens into economic tools, not civilized gentlemen and ladies. Moral and civic lessons are totally absence in schools, and at homes.
If we have bad experience in London, New York, it does not make our bad behaviors at home legitimate. On the contrary, lets not let this happen in our country.
There is no need to argue for or against what Mr. Buxton said, just "Sorry for the bad encounter, Mr. Buxton, hope you meet better Singaporean the next time." Lets hope he does not take long to meet a courteous Singaporean. -
I am not so concerned about the racial issue. I am more concerned at the demand of a "thank you".Originally posted by Gedanken:The racial issue, apart from that babboon declaring himself xenophobic, is a red herring.
The issue here is the utter and complete lack of manners common to Singaporeans, and the apathy of other Singaporeans to this glaring problem, as reflected in this thread.
Think about it - if it was Lim, or Selvakumar or Osman instead of Buxton, would the substance of the letter been any different? Let's no go barking up the wrong tree here.
And as I've said before, pointing out the faults of others does absolutely nothing to make oneself look better. It's how children try to cover up their own misbehaviour.
What I was taught in primary school is that when you hold a door open for others, give up your seat for others, you do not expect a thanks. You do not demand a thanks. You do not write a letter of complaint to the local newspaper to demand a thanks.
When others hold doors for you, give up seats to you or generally do something nice for you, you must thank them for it.
But is it really good manners when you demand gratitude back in return for a nice gesture?
If a friend drives down to pick me up in the middle of the night with not a word of complaint, that is nice. I'll thank that friend.
When a taxi driver picks me up and sends me home, after paying him, I thank him.
When a taxi driver bitches and whines about everything under the sun in the middle of the night, do I thank that person for the Hell he put me through?
Before alighting from a bus, do I have to squeeze my way to the front of the bus to thank the bus captain?
Similarly, although the xena-man was very rude (no question there), the other person was just as rude to DEMAND a word of gratitude by going up to him saying loudly to him "YOUR WELCOME" twice.
Sometimes people are not very bright (as seen by the xena-gorilla), sometimes they are downright rude. But does being courtest mean forcing courtesy out of those around us? To the extent of being intolerant?
Once again, I have no quarrel with you that mr xena and most singaporeans are rude. I also have no issue about the 100 plus years of culture many westerners have to develope their social skills and courtesy. But my main and only question is: IS IT GOOD MANNERS TO CHASE UP TO A PERSON AND FORCE THAT PERSON TO THANK YOU FOR DOING SOMETHING NICE?
Don't bring in nationality, race, age, etc. -
Once again, I do not condone being ungrateful.
If someone does something nice for you, PLEASE FOR GOODNESS SAKE THANK THEM.
Show appreciation for those who toil to make your life easier, such as cleaners, maids, ministers, etc.
I am not condoning being rude nor am I defending mr xena. All I am saying is, IS IT POLITE TO CHASE A PERSON TO DEMAND GRATITUDE FROM THEM. -
Say what?! You're the one who wrote:Originally posted by SilverPal:Don't bring in nationality, race, age, etc.Talk about superior attitude of the caucasians.
You've given up your right to say, "let's not bring up race", methinks.
Are we to smile and bow and greet everytime we see a caucasian? We are not waiters, not their slaves. -
Few days ago while in a car park, I saw a couple carrying loads of groceries on both hands walking towards a lift lobby. Anticipating the problem, I opened the lobby door wide open for them. The couple sailed through the doorway, chatting with each other as if I am transparent. Later, I figured out they spoke Japanese. While in the lift, I was apparently disappointed and donÂ’t bother to ask them which level. My wife was kind enough to ask; the man replied in Japanese accent English and continued his conversation in Japanese (as if we had interrupted them). No smile, no thanks.
So my question is, does all Japanese behave that way? I donÂ’t think so. This Japanese couple was exceptional. Assuming Singaporeans are xenophobic through one experience is unjustifiable. -
Very well pointed out. So the "xenophobic" man was a little rude in not saying thanks.Originally posted by SilverPal:Once again, I do not condone being ungrateful.
If someone does something nice for you, PLEASE FOR GOODNESS SAKE THANK THEM.
Show appreciation for those who toil to make your life easier, such as cleaners, maids, ministers, etc.
I am not condoning being rude nor am I defending mr xena. All I am saying is, IS IT POLITE TO CHASE A PERSON TO DEMAND GRATITUDE FROM THEM.
But Mr "Helpful" chased after him to demand that! Being told in his face that his opponent is "xenophobic", he writes a letter to the national press and implicates all Singaporeans. Mmmm..... -
No, the Japanese are usually very polite, unlike Koreans, especially Koreans living in Seoul, who can be quite rude and uncouth.Originally posted by maxmin:Few days ago while in a car park, I saw a couple carrying loads of groceries on both hands walking towards a lift lobby. Anticipating the problem, I opened the lobby door wide open for them. The couple sailed through the doorway, chatting with each other as if I am transparent. Later, I figured out they spoke Japanese. While in the lift, I was apparently disappointed and donÂ’t bother to ask them which level. My wife was kind enough to ask; the man replied in Japanese accent English and continued his conversation in Japanese (as if we had interrupted them). No smile, no thanks.
So my question is, does all Japanese behave that way? I donÂ’t think so. This Japanese couple was exceptional. Assuming Singaporeans are xenophobic through one experience is unjustifiable.
From my Korean fanatic friend who spent heck of a long time in Korea -
What silverpal siad is exactly what i was talking about. DO you think that all ang mohs behave in the way that you so staunchly expressed is right?Originally posted by Gedanken:If it is indeed the government's job to educate people, then Xenophobic Man's "4 Million Smiles" behaviour is proof positive that the government has failed at its job of education, so Buxton should be criticising it. It's only logical by your line of reasoning.
Do you think if you held the doors, helped some one with things they dropped, ALL of them will reply wth a "thank you"? Wouldn't it be wonderful if we all could live in that world.
If you still think so, then maybe you should go back to where you said you've been and try it out.
Its the same everywhere. There are the good and bad. So this buxton fella met with a bad one. Doesn't mean you go about complaining about it. I don't believe you has never met one Singaporean who held the doors open for him. Or singaporeans who says thank you.
By writing in and making fun of us and the campaign is an over-kill. Like I said, lose that "holier than thou" attitude. -
What Silverpal said is a separate matter to what you pointed out. You contradicted yourself by first saying it's the government's fault, and then backflipping by saying that the government's "4 million smiles" campaign shouldn't be criticised. If you want to concede and move on to Silverpal's point, that's fine, but why muddy the waters before you're done with the first issue?