Not A Word Of Thanks From 'Xenophobic' Man
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Did he actually demand that, though? As far as the original article states, he pointed out Xenophobic's lack of manners, and given the truth of that (that you acknowledge), why shouldn't Buxton point out a problem if he sees it? Are we all expected to say that the emperor's clothes look fabulous when it's obvious the bugger's buck naked?Originally posted by sourketchup:Very well pointed out. So the "xenophobic" man was a little rude in not saying thanks.
But Mr "Helpful" chased after him to demand that! Being told in his face that his opponent is "xenophobic", he writes a letter to the national press and implicates all Singaporeans. Mmmm..... -
Yeah, I meant that in the context of still allowing racisim to exist from the countries I've been to and have heard about. THE same countries you said to have been toOriginally posted by Gedanken:What Silverpal said is a separate matter to what you pointed out. You contradicted yourself by first saying it's the government's fault, and then backflipping by saying that the government's "4 million smiles" campaign shouldn't be criticised. If you want to concede and move on to Silverpal's point, that's fine, but why muddy the waters before you're done with the first issue?
As for your second point, I do encourage OUR goverment to promote more singaporeans to be more polite. Do not condemn all because of a few. I hope I have simplified myself enough for you
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Well and good, but why shouldn't the ineffectiveness of the "4 million smiles" campaign be pointed out through this instance? Is the government's responsibility applicable to racism but not courtesy, especially in light of the fact that they have formalised their concern with the issue through the campaign? Where does that distinction come in?Originally posted by Anycall:Yeah, I meant that in the context of still allowing racisim to exist from the countries I've been to and have heard about. THE same countries you said to have been to
As for your second point, I do encourage OUR goverment to promote more singaporeans to be more polite. Do not condemn all because of a few. I hope I have simplified myself enough for you
Mind you, while we don't have racial riots like we did a few decades ago, phrases like "keleng kia" can still be commonly heard on the street, and non-Chinese are limited in who they can sell their HDB apartments to. Do you think Singapore has the race problem licked?
On top of that, one of the points I've already made is that pointing out that someone else is worse doesn't make oneself any better. There are standards of personal bearing that each one of us is responsible for maintaining, and it does not speak well of us if we fail to maintain them, regardless of how anyone else behaves, does it?
I, in turn, hope I have simplified myself enough for you -
Now I 've never said that it applies to racisim but not to courtesy now did I?Originally posted by Gedanken:Well and good, but why shouldn't the ineffectiveness of the "4 million smiles" campaign be pointed out through this instance? Is the government's responsibility applicable to racism but not courtesy, especially in light of the fact that they have formalised their concern with the issue through the campaign? Where does that distinction come in?
I, in turn, hope I have simplified myself enough for you 
(Again in point, would you bother being polite and nice to someone whose race you dislike?)
Now we would like to all live in a world that is perfect. Where everyone is decent and polite to everyone else like you. You seem to be the luckiest person on this planet where all the people whom you are associated with and me are all so nice
But lets be realistic. There will always be bad seeds. Regardless of what we or the goverment do. All I'm saying is why label everyone else because of the actions of one.
Mr Buxton here is making a comparison in standards from wherever he is from to where he is now. He and you should understand the concept of cultural differences. We have to ways to go yes. But don't forget. Some countries have centuries of a headstart. We only have 41 years. So give it some time -
Come now, did the cultures that make up Singaporean society only come into existence 41 years ago? Chinese and Indian culture have been around a lot longer than that of the Anlgo-Saxons, haven't they? I suppose many would point out that the mainland Chinese and Indians are also particularly rude these days, but again it comes down to someone else's being worse not making anything better. Look at the cultural developments of these two civilisations from centuries ago, and wouldn't you say that we've had the headstart and squandered it?Originally posted by Anycall:Mr Buxton here is making a comparison in standards from wherever he is from to where he is now. He and you should understand the concept of cultural differences. We have to ways to go yes. But don't forget. Some countries have centuries of a headstart. We only have 41 years. So give it some time -
I felt obligated to share this experience hereÂ…
Few months ago, I was in a sardine packed bus with my 7 years old son. We stood like wobbling toys. An old Indian man (I think he is Singaporean) stood up few seats from us and gave up his seat for my son. He was old enough to be my son granddad. I insisted that he remained in his seat. But he told me he was alighting soon. I reluctantly accepted the seat for my son. I profusely thanked him. I felt guiltier when he stood all the way until we alight.
To date, I still feel thankful.
Singaporeans are kind and considerate. -
I think you are still unable to see what I'm saying and misinterpreting all my sentences.Originally posted by Gedanken:Come now, did the cultures that make up Singaporean society only come into existence 41 years ago? Chinese and Indian culture have been around a lot longer than that of the Anlgo-Saxons, haven't they? I suppose many would point out that the mainland Chinese and Indians are also particularly rude these days, but again it comes down to someone else's being worse not making anything better. Look at the cultural developments of these two civilisations from centuries ago, and wouldn't you say that we've had the headstart and squandered it?
Now your are saying because of ancient china and india, we are what we are today?
How can you use that as backing to what singapore is? Every nation has their own set of values and path towards development. Every goverment has its own political aim and focus. That's why I say there are cultural differences. As a nation, singapore has only 41 years of existence.
Are you saying our goverment were following the politics and social values of China and India all along?
We cannot say that australia or US is better than europe or asia or vice versa. Each country has its own identity. I know its kinda long. So please take more time in going through what I've said. -
Or is it you who is unable to see what you are saying?Originally posted by Anycall:I think you are still unable to see what I'm saying and misinterpreting all my sentences.
Now your are saying because of ancient china and india, we are what we are today?
How can you use that as backing to what singapore is? Every nation has their own set of values and path towards development. Every goverment has its own political aim and focus. That's why I say there are cultural differences. As a nation, singapore has only 41 years of existence.
Are you saying our goverment were following the politics and social values of China and India all along?
We cannot say that australia or US is better than europe or asia or vice versa. Each country has its own identity. I know its kinda long. So please take more time in going through what I've said.
After all, have you missed how the government has spent ages and stacks of money on cultural programs, claiming to maintain Singapore's ethnic identity by harking back to ancient concepts such as Confucian ethics? God knows we've been warned time and time again not to be corrupted by the Western influence, and that we must always remember that we are Asian.
Where, pray tell, does this Aisan idenntity that the Singaporean government refers to come from? Was it a Singaporean invention within the last few years?
Please don't insult anyone's intelligence by claiming that Singapore's 41-year history makes a lack of culture all right. The people who make up the country didn't pop out of thin air 41 years ago with no cultural guide for their behaviour. -
I think asian identity refers to the region we are in, which consists of malaysia, thailand, indonesia, japan, etc.
What i was referring to is our cultural identity. A nation's identity.
Guess this topic is too hard for you to have a discussion with so I think it has gone on far enough.
PS, i didn't mean to insult anyone and their intelligience. If i did, i do apologise
Yet I think the only one doing that is you and to your own. -
Whoa, don't run away now, this is getting interesting.Originally posted by Anycall:I think asian identity refers to the region we are in, which consists of malaysia, thailand, indonesia, japan, etc.
What i was referring to is our cultural identity. A nation's identity.
Guess this topic is too hard for you to have a discussion with so I think it has gone on far enough.
PS, i didn't mean to insult anyone and their intelligience. If i did, i do apologise
Yet I think the only one doing that is you and to your own.
You pin Singapore's lack of culture on the fact that Singapore hasn't been around for as long as some other countries, right? Why do you try to avoid the fact that the people of Singapore come from countries with civilisations that have been around for millenia, and that they have brought their cultures and attendant rules of courtesy along with them? Are you saying that people left their cultures at the door when they came to Singapore?
Does Confucianism come from Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia or Japan? If so, then you are correct in saying that the Asian identity bandied about by the Singaporean government, so often linked to Confucian ethics, means that of those countires. Unfortunately, the facts bear out that Confucianism links the Singaporean government's drive for Asian identity to China (and ancient China at that), does it not?
If you're not prepared to address this simple issue in which you are clearly wrong, I put it to you that it is you who find this discussion hard to follow. -
Ok, since you INSIST on talking about race, then let's talk about race.Originally posted by Gedanken:You've given up your right to say, "let's not bring up race", methinks.
If mr xeno was a caucasian, would we even be hearing about this in the newspapers? It would probably be forgotten.
So I guess it is very polite to go up to a person and DEMAND courtesy as you have suggeseted and condoned? It is rude for me to not say thank you (you and I both agree) but it is also rude for one to NOT DEMAND A WORD OF THANKS?
Come on, You still refuse to answer me the very simple and basic question that' I posted in 2 posts. I even highlighted it in RED in case you were unable to see the caps.
YOU'RE WELCOME.
YOU'RE SO RUDE TO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE MY EFFORTS. NOT EVEN A WORD OF THANKS COMING FROM SOMEONE WHO CRITICIZES OTHERS ABOUT THEIR MANNERS.
YOU'RE WELCOME.
Instead of answering my questions which I have posted to you twice, you chose to ignore it and shift your goal posts in every subsqequent posts.
For your benefit and to save you the effort of pressing the BACK button on your browser, let me post you the question again:
IS IT POLITE TO EXPLICITLY DEMAND GRATITUDE FROM ANOTHER FOR HOLDING THE DOOR OPEN.
I even reworded it to help you understand my question better.
YOU'RE WELCOME. -
while mr xeno wasn't courteous, i wouldn't say one who demands thanks to be courteous too.
not to mention following and pestering the guy
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Yeah! And we chinamen speak mandarin like true beijinese! In fact, when we go back to our motherland, china, no one can tell us apart! Even the architecture of the buildings in china and sg are the same! Cos we are just another province of china!Originally posted by Gedanken:Whoa, don't run away now, this is getting interesting.
You pin Singapore's lack of culture on the fact that Singapore hasn't been around for as long as some other countries, right? Why do you try to avoid the fact that the people of Singapore come from countries with civilisations that have been around for millenia, and that they have brought their cultures and attendant rules of courtesy along with them? Are you saying that people left their cultures at the door when they came to Singapore?
Does Confucianism come from Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia or Japan? If so, then you are correct in saying that the Asian identity bandied about by the Singaporean government, so often linked to Confucian ethics, means that of those countires. Unfortunately, the facts bear out that Confucianism links the Singaporean government's drive for Asian identity to China (and ancient China at that), does it not?
If you're not prepared to address this simple issue in which you are clearly wrong, I put it to you that it is you who find this discussion hard to follow.
Come on, once our forefathers left china, chinese in sg took on a distinctive culture of their own. No longer can you equate sg chinese to china chinese. If you think that these 2 are identical, still going back to confucianism and chairman mao, then you really need to get out more.
Once again, you did not thank me for my efforts in repeating my question to you 3 times. And also you delibrately chose to ignore my simplest questions. -
Thank you, you finally answered a question which I have posted 3 times and certain pretentious prigs refuse to answer.Originally posted by hisoka:while mr xeno wasn't courteous, i wouldn't say one who demands thanks to be courteous too.
not to mention following and pestering the guy -
i never read the previous posts, dun draw me in to flame war if there is any pleaseOriginally posted by SilverPal:Thank you, you finally answered a question which I have posted 3 times and certain pretentious prigs refuse to answer. -
this is pathetic........its a gesture of goodwill.........some people doesn't even have to reciprocate it at all.....why the need to do so????? i wouldn't have even bothered.........
give nonchatalant attitude lor...........why need to say so much about having xenophobic sentiments......
the man who was shot with the word xenophobic sentiments was pathetic......needing to relieve his pain by telling his family members..... -
Tut tut, no need to get your knickers in a twist. Read my response to sourketchup at the top of this page and you'll see that I've already addressed your issue.Originally posted by SilverPal:Ok, since you INSIST on talking about race, then let's talk about race.
If mr xeno was a caucasian, would we even be hearing about this in the newspapers? It would probably be forgotten.
So I guess it is very polite to go up to a person and DEMAND courtesy as you have suggeseted and condoned? It is rude for me to not say thank you (you and I both agree) but it is also rude for one to NOT DEMAND A WORD OF THANKS?
Come on, You still refuse to answer me the very simple and basic question that' I posted in 2 posts. I even highlighted it in RED in case you were unable to see the caps.
YOU'RE WELCOME.
YOU'RE SO RUDE TO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE MY EFFORTS. NOT EVEN A WORD OF THANKS COMING FROM SOMEONE WHO CRITICIZES OTHERS ABOUT THEIR MANNERS.
YOU'RE WELCOME.
Instead of answering my questions which I have posted to you twice, you chose to ignore it and shift your goal posts in every subsqequent posts.
For your benefit and to save you the effort of pressing the BACK button on your browser, let me post you the question again:
IS IT POLITE TO EXPLICITLY DEMAND GRATITUDE FROM ANOTHER FOR HOLDING THE DOOR OPEN.
I even reworded it to help you understand my question better.
YOU'RE WELCOME.
Why do you keep denying that you're the one who brought race up, though? Tell you what, you did me a favour in saving my back button, and I'll return the favour. You said:Talk about superior attitude of the caucasians.
Now you can deny that till you're blue in the face, but you made it a racial issue when you made that statement. Then, to make false claim on the moral high ground, you next say, "Let's not make it a racial issue" when you're the one who did so.
Almost sounds like a guy claiming the excuse of being xenophobic when simply brought up on his lack of manners. -
Why thanks, and as I said, I've already addressed the issue. I'm afraid if you refuse to read what I've written, there's only so much I can do.Originally posted by SilverPal:Yeah! And we chinamen speak mandarin like true beijinese! In fact, when we go back to our motherland, china, no one can tell us apart! Even the architecture of the buildings in china and sg are the same! Cos we are just another province of china!
Come on, once our forefathers left china, chinese in sg took on a distinctive culture of their own. No longer can you equate sg chinese to china chinese. If you think that these 2 are identical, still going back to confucianism and chairman mao, then you really need to get out more.
Once again, you did not thank me for my efforts in repeating my question to you 3 times. And also you delibrately chose to ignore my simplest questions.
Anyway, from the above, are you saying that Singapore has made rudeness a key aspect of its newly-formed culture?
I'm not the one saying that we should be following Chinese culture - the Singapore government is in pushing Confucianism through education and campaigns. Go take it up with them and tell them that they need to get out more. -
Now why are you getting so upset? All that stress isn't good for you, and at this rate you might just end up thumping your chest and making silly proclamations in public.Originally posted by SilverPal:Thank you, you finally answered a question which I have posted 3 times and certain pretentious prigs refuse to answer. -
I actually do find it hard to follow. When I read your replies. You just seem too self obsessed and dense to listen to what anyone else is saying. Let me try to put this in point form so maybe you can actually read and understand.Originally posted by Gedanken:Whoa, don't run away now, this is getting interesting.
You pin Singapore's lack of culture on the fact that Singapore hasn't been around for as long as some other countries, right? Why do you try to avoid the fact that the people of Singapore come from countries with civilisations that have been around for millenia, and that they have brought their cultures and attendant rules of courtesy along with them? Are you saying that people left their cultures at the door when they came to Singapore?
Does Confucianism come from Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia or Japan? If so, then you are correct in saying that the Asian identity bandied about by the Singaporean government, so often linked to Confucian ethics, means that of those countires. Unfortunately, the facts bear out that Confucianism links the Singaporean government's drive for Asian identity to China (and ancient China at that), does it not?
If you're not prepared to address this simple issue in which you are clearly wrong, I put it to you that it is you who find this discussion hard to follow.
-Singapore, China, DIFFERENT. NOT SAME.
-PEOPLE also DIFFERENT.
-SOCIAL values NOT SAME.
-Different in cultures so value also not same.
-We not from CHINA. We from Singapore. So how can be same leh?
This is the most simple I can put it for you because you seem to have trouble reading whole sentences. Can understand already? -
btw why is opening door for pple and holding it open till they pass courteous or good manners unless the person has his/her hand full(even then its considerate?)
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ooo... chasing after me to demand things of me, I'm so honoured. Thank you for extending this courtesy to me. Very rarely do I get such courtesy considering the fact that the primitive locals are so rude as to not chase after anyone else to demand anything of them.Originally posted by Gedanken:Now you can deny that till you're blue in the face, but you made it a racial issue when you made that statement. Then, to make false claim on the moral high ground, you next say, "Let's not make it a racial issue" when you're the one who did so.
Almost sounds like a guy claiming the excuse of being xenophobic when simply brought up on his lack of manners.
Keep harping on it, maybe you might want to write into the papers to blow up the issue? Nothing can be more courtest than that.
Not once have I denied that I said that that caucasian was showing superior attitude. But if you want to blow it up and claim I said ALL caucasians are like that, then sure, by all means chase after me and demand anything of me. After all, its only polite. -
Awww, now was that necessary? Oh yeah, I forgot, you're proposing that rudeness is just fine.Originally posted by Anycall:I actually do find it hard to follow. When I read your replies. You just seem too self obsessed and dense to listen to what anyone else is saying. Let me try to put this in point form so maybe you can actually read and understand.
-Singapore, China, DIFFERENT. NOT SAME.
-PEOPLE also DIFFERENT.
-SOCIAL values NOT SAME.
-Different in cultures so value also not same.
-We not from CHINA. We from Singapore. So how can be same leh?
This is the most simple I can put it for you because you seem to have trouble reading whole sentences. Can understand already?
OK, let's take your line of argument. If people can lose their cultural identities so easily, your argument that Singapore's being disadvantaged by it's relatively short history doesn't stand, does it? -
So are you saying that it is rude or polite to chase another to demand thanks? You evade my question by answering with a non sequiter.Originally posted by Gedanken:Why thanks, and as I said, I've already addressed the issue. I'm afraid if you refuse to read what I've written, there's only so much I can do.
Anyway, from the above, are you saying that Singapore has made rudeness a key aspect of its newly-formed culture?
I'm not the one saying that we should be following Chinese culture - the Singapore government is in pushing Confucianism through education and campaigns. Go take it up with them and tell them that they need to get out more.
There is nothing wrong with pointing out mistakes or something you, in your opinion, deem to be wrong.
On the same note, certain distinguished individual also said that if you refuse to give alternatives or solutions, then move on. Don't harp on one thing over and over again, chasing others even. Move on.
So in essence, you have talked about everything else except answering my question.
I demand that you answer it. Is it rude, yes or no.
Simple question.
Oh, and I do not question your esteemed opinion, confusious probably holds a pink IC, according to you anyway. Feel free to chase me to demand me for quoting you. -
Nar, I can't do that without you chasing me to demand that I admit to words which you put in my mouth.Originally posted by Gedanken:Now why are you getting so upset? All that stress isn't good for you, and at this rate you might just end up thumping your chest and making silly proclamations in public.
Would you like to write to the newspaper about it too?