Not A Word Of Thanks From 'Xenophobic' Man
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I didn't say that. Just that not everyone thinks the same. The ang moh guy making so much noise because of one incident. Please.Originally posted by Gedanken:Awww, now was that necessary? Oh yeah, I forgot, you're proposing that rudeness is just fine.
OK, let's take your line of argument. If people can lose their cultural identities so easily, your argument that Singapore's being disadvantaged by it's relatively short history doesn't stand, does it?
And from what you said, your ancestors also from china right? So you believe that woman should only stay at home and be housewife and give birth. You must also sit with one leg up on the chair when you go out and eat coz that's what they do in china. Since you say we can't lose our identities from china.
Looks like you are the one who is contradicting yourself here. That's why I say the only person you are insulting is yourself and your intelligence.
I think I'm expressing my views based on a chinese singaporean. While you seem to be influenced by western cultures. If you think they are that great then I do hope you go live with them. Let's see if they treat you with all the fabulous positives you keep harping on.
One less banana doesnt make much of a difference here anyway. We are already bringing in so many to re populate ourselves
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I acknowledge that you didn't say that all caucasians like that. Despite that, though, bringing his race into the discussion is a red herring.Originally posted by SilverPal:ooo... chasing after me to demand things of me, I'm so honoured. Thank you for extending this courtesy to me. Very rarely do I get such courtesy considering the fact that the primitive locals are so rude as to not chase after anyone else to demand anything of them.
Keep harping on it, maybe you might want to write into the papers to blow up the issue? Nothing can be more courtest than that.
Not once have I denied that I said that that caucasian was showing superior attitude. But if you want to blow it up and claim I said ALL caucasians are like that, then sure, by all means chase after me and demand anything of me. After all, its only polite.
You seem to have missed the point here. Buxton's aim was not to reply in courteous manner - it was to highlight Xenophobic's discourtesy. I'm not saying that Buxton was courteous in his response. He refused to be apathetic to the situation, and his unwillingness to take things lying down is something I support. -
No no no, you got it all wrong.Originally posted by Anycall:I actually do find it hard to follow. When I read your replies. You just seem too self obsessed and dense to listen to what anyone else is saying. Let me try to put this in point form so maybe you can actually read and understand.
-Singapore, China, DIFFERENT. NOT SAME.
-PEOPLE also DIFFERENT.
-SOCIAL values NOT SAME.
-Different in cultures so value also not same.
-We not from CHINA. We from Singapore. So how can be same leh?
This is the most simple I can put it for you because you seem to have trouble reading whole sentences. Can understand already?
According him:
China=taiwan=singapore
social values=> same
we are all chinamen.
Confucious was singaporean. He probably voted for LKY. -
Thank you for you honest answer. I do apologise for being rude and defensive about this issue tho.Originally posted by Gedanken:I acknowledge that you didn't say that all caucasians like that. Despite that, though, bringing his race into the discussion is a red herring.
You seem to have missed the point here. Buxton's aim was not to reply in courteous manner - it was to highlight Xenophobic's discourtesy. I'm not saying that Buxton was courteous in his response. He refused to be apathetic to the situation, and his unwillingness to take things lying down is something I support.
I do agree that while standing up for oneself, as Boxton did is commendable, but blowing up this issue is much the opposite of what Buxton was trying to bring across to us, the contrast between his manners and our lack of. -
Guys, don't bicker anymore.....each has their valid points.
On a personal note, I think the ang moh guy has over-reacted by demanding courtesy.
That xenophobic man has also painted a bad picture of S'poreans.
Let's face it.....S'poreans just cannot be bothered to say thank you as often as they should. It may be the same in other countries.
My auntie works as a secretary in the States and she always tells me how fake the Americans are. Oh her husband is American btw. Well, it's the same the world over. -
You obviously haven't been paying attention - LKY voted for him.Originally posted by SilverPal:No no no, you got it all wrong.
According him:
China=taiwan=singapore
social values=> same
we are all chinamen.
Confucious was singaporean. He probably voted for LKY.
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That's what I've trying to explain to this Gendanken fella. I wanted to end it he just keeps on and on. Hope that fella will one day see the light of reason.Originally posted by Rock^Star:On a personal note, I think the ang moh guy has over-reacted by demanding courtesy.
That xenophobic man has also painted a bad picture of S'poreans.
Let's face it.....S'poreans just cannot be bothered to say thank you as often as they should. It may be the same in other countries.
My auntie works as a secretary in the States and she always tells me how fake the Americans are. Oh her husband is American btw. Well, it's the same the world over. -
The question is whether it's his manners in contrast to ours. All the way from primary school, weren't we taught to say thanks?Originally posted by SilverPal:Thank you for you honest answer. I do apologise for being rude and defensive about this issue tho.
I do agree that while standing up for oneself, as Boxton did is commendable, but blowing up this issue is much the opposite of what Buxton was trying to bring across to us, the contrast between his manners and our lack of.
My read on this is that Xenophobic man failed to show basic manners, and he did something about it, and if anything, he's done us a favour by pointing this out. -
Actually, I do rather enjoy kicking back once in a while, putting a leg up and paddling that rice down with chopsticks.Originally posted by Anycall:I didn't say that. Just that not everyone thinks the same. The ang moh guy making so much noise because of one incident. Please.
And from what you said, your ancestors also from china right? So you believe that woman should only stay at home and be housewife and give birth. You must also sit with one leg up on the chair when you go out and eat coz that's what they do in china. Since you say we can't lose our identities from china.
Looks like you are the one who is contradicting yourself here. That's why I say the only person you are insulting is yourself and your intelligence.
I think I'm expressing my views based on a chinese singaporean. While you seem to be influenced by western cultures. If you think they are that great then I do hope you go live with them. Let's see if they treat you with all the fabulous positives you keep harping on.
One less banana doesnt make much of a difference here anyway. We are already bringing in so many to re populate ourselves
Seriously, though, was keeping the woman at home an ethical value along the lines of courtesy and filial piety? I don't think there's any contradiction here.
If "thank you" is indeed a Western thing, I'm just wondering where "xie xie" came from. care to offer any explanations for that?
Now, that "if you don't agree with me, go away" attitude of yours is an unfortunately Singaporean trait. -
Did he chase Xenophobe down demanding thanks, or did he go up and ask Xenophobe what he said?Originally posted by SilverPal:So are you saying that it is rude or polite to chase another to demand thanks? You evade my question by answering with a non sequiter.
There is nothing wrong with pointing out mistakes or something you, in your opinion, deem to be wrong.
On the same note, certain distinguished individual also said that if you refuse to give alternatives or solutions, then move on. Don't harp on one thing over and over again, chasing others even. Move on.
So in essence, you have talked about everything else except answering my question.
I demand that you answer it. Is it rude, yes or no.
Simple question.
Oh, and I do not question your esteemed opinion, confusious probably holds a pink IC, according to you anyway. Feel free to chase me to demand me for quoting you.
I think you can read and find out the answer to that one, and the answer shows that your question has no bearing on the matter. -
I never did care for hit-and-run tactics. If you're going to say something, front up to it.Originally posted by Anycall:I wanted to end it he just keeps on and on. -
And so is the trait of some singaporeans saying thank you and some who don't. This is the same for any country. No place in the world will be as perfect as the one you have in mind.Originally posted by Gedanken:Actually, I do rather enjoy kicking back once in a while, putting a leg up and paddling that rice down with chopsticks.
Seriously, though, was keeping the woman at home an ethical value along the lines of courtesy and filial piety? I don't think there's any contradiction here.
If "thank you" is indeed a Western thing, I'm just wondering where "xie xie" came from. care to offer any explanations for that?
Now, that "if you don't agree with me, go away" attitude of yours is an unfortunately Singaporean trait.
Yet it seems you are the one who is so disenchanted with us local singaporeans and the rudeness of a few. You do seem to have nothing but praises for western cultures.
C'mon get a grip on reality here. you will face this problem anywhere else in the world. Do you expect a thank you from every foreigner you hold the door for every single time? -
Sure would be a nice world if people, both locals and foreigners, did that, wouldn't it?Originally posted by Anycall:And so is the trait of some singaporeans saying thank you and some who don't. No place in the world will be as perfect as the one you have in mind.
Yet it seems you are the one who is so disenchanted with us local singaporeans and the rudeness of a few. You do seem to have nothing but praises for western cultures.
Do you expect a thank you from every foreigner you hold the door for every single time?
I don't see why you insist on making it an us-and-them issue. I've already pointed out that courtesy is a valued aspect of both Eastern and Western cultures, so why have you come out with this warped conclusion that I think Western cultures are better?
It says a lot more about you than it does about me. -
Maybe its because this foreigner is making too big a deal just like you?Originally posted by Gedanken:Sure would be a nice world if people, both locals and foreigners, did that, wouldn't it?
I don't see why you insist on making it an us-and-them issue. I've already pointed out that courtesy is a valued aspect of both Eastern and Western cultures, so why have you come out with this warped conclusion that I think Western cultures are better? It says a lot more about you than it does about me. -
Well, as I said before, would the substance of the matter been any different had the fellow's name been Tan, Ramachandran or Aziz instead of Buxton? You're chasing a red herring here.Originally posted by Anycall:Maybe its because this foreigner is making too big a deal just like you? -
ok, if you say soOriginally posted by Gedanken:Well, as I said before, would the substance of the matter been any different had the fellow's name been Tan, Ramachandran or Aziz instead of Buxton? You're chasing a red herring here. -
And indeed I do say so. Race is not the issue here - a lack of courtesy and decency is. Singapore's progressed economically and yes, there are some Singaporeans who take the trouble to treat people around them decently. However, between incidents like this, regular complaints about fit young people taking up seats and leaving old people and pregnant women to stand on the bus or MRT, and the other one a few months ago where people in a lift saw a paramedic soming and hit the "door close" button, you'd really have to wonder if Singapore is a real nation or a bunch of assorted individuals who look out after number one, devil take the hindmost.
Anyway, I'll check in on this thread in the morning. Do try to do something other than clutch at straws. -
yep you are the only one who is right here. Whatever anyone else says is just wrong. I guess we have all seen the errors of our ways.Originally posted by Gedanken:And indeed I do say so. Race is not the issue here - a lack of courtesy and decency is. Singapore's progressed economically and yes, there are some Singaporeans who take the trouble to treat people around them decently. However, between incidents like this, regular complaints about fit young people taking up seats and leaving old people and pregnant women to stand on the bus or MRT, and the other one a few months ago where people in a lift saw a paramedic soming and hit the "door close" button, you'd really have to wonder if Singapore is a real nation or a bunch of assorted individuals who look out after number one, devil take the hindmost.
Anyway, I'll check in on this thread in the morning. Do try to do something other than clutch at straws. -
Oh, how very good. Run out of ammo, so you have to resort to, "yes, I'm wrong - big deal".
Now we know why you're backing Mr Xenophobe - you do pretty much what he does. -
Well, I'm really not supporting anyone here. I would like to reiterate once again that in my honest opinion, each has valid points.Originally posted by Anycall:That's what I've trying to explain to this Gendanken fella. I wanted to end it he just keeps on and on. Hope that fella will one day see the light of reason.
What the two of you are doing is trying to wrestle each other down, to the point where it reminds me of WWE. Only difference here is that I see kids, instead of adults.
Many Muslims oppose Israel's war against Lebanon but have they ever considered what it feels like to live in a region where your neighbours cannot wait to exterminate you? Each has their valid points. -
Let's not bring Israel into this.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Well, I'm really not supporting anyone here. I would like to reiterate once again that in my honest opinion, each has valid points.
What the two of you are doing is trying to wrestle each other down, to the point where it reminds me of WWE. Only difference here is that I see kids, instead of adults.
Many Muslims oppose Israel's war against Lebanon but have they ever considered what it feels like to live in a region where your neighbours cannot wait to exterminate you? Each has their valid points.
Hezbollah must be eliminated. -
When one has an axe to grind with the Host, one will bring out the worst to embarrass the Host.
If one has the true concern for some improvement to the shortcomings of the Host, there are ample ways to address any issues with the Host.
This is an issue that concern politeness and impoliteness, and correct social behaviour - and the issues presented are not necessarily typically Singaporean.
Some impoliteness are unconciously displayed in rushing through the traffic and hustle, and we may have missed a slight nod or a hard smile given instead of a verbal expression.
At times, there exist in certain countries - racial or ethnic superiority complexes, or biasness - and even a spoken 'thank you' for holding the door open is said in a condescending manner.
Should we succumb to our sensititivity or let it pass ?
The experience with the " 'Xenophobic' Man" is exaggerated - to say the least - as the probability of any Singaporean to think of the word "Xenophobic" in a sudden confrontation with an "Ang Moh" is laughable.
If such a word should spout from anyone, it has to be from someone who has a wide reflexive lexicon of English words, and is totally adapt at using the English Language - could such a person be a Singaporean ?
The comments given in the ST Forum was designed to deride the host country, or perhaps the Author had identified wrongly the person who had offended him - afterall it was in a public area. -
Atobe, why do you assume that Singaporeans do not have the verbal aptitude to use such words in daily life?
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Hmm. Atobe, those are a few tenuous points you've made there.
When one has an axe to grind with the Host, one will bring out the worst to embarrass the Host.
If one has the true concern for some improvement to the shortcomings of the Host, there are ample ways to address any issues with the Host.
This is an issue that concern politeness and impoliteness, and correct social behaviour - and the issues presented are not necessarily typically Singaporean.
Some impoliteness are unconciously displayed in rushing through the traffic and hustle, and we may have missed a slight nod or a hard smile given instead of a verbal expression.
At times, there exist in certain countries - racial or ethnic superiority complexes, or biasness - and even a spoken 'thank you' for holding the door open is said in a condescending manner.
Should we succumb to our sensititivity or let it pass ?
The experience with the [b]" 'Xenophobic' Man" is exaggerated - to say the least - as the probability of any Singaporean to think of the word "Xenophobic" in a sudden confrontation with an "Ang Moh" is laughable.
If such a word should spout from anyone, it has to be from someone who has a wide reflexive lexicon of English words, and is totally adapt at using the English Language - could such a person be a Singaporean ?
The comments given in the ST Forum was designed to deride the host country, or perhaps the Author had identified wrongly the person who had offended him - afterall it was in a public area.
[/b]
Buxton isn't some expat who's just been assigned to Singapore by his parent company. He's chosen to settle down in Singapore, so what makes you think he has an axe to grind?
Second, if Xenophobic Man is middle aged, he would have been attending school at a time where, attending the right school, he could easily have developed enough vocabulary to know what xenophobic means, or at least fidn the meaning out. It's a bit of a stretch to rule out his being a Singaporean on this basis.
Finally, Buxton has settled down in Singapore and raised a family. It stands to reason that he would have had enough exposure to the local population (especially seeing as how he married into it) to tell a local from a foreigner, doesn't it? -
With the casual preference towards "Singlish" even amongst the best educated, it has to be reflexxive second nature to respond with the full understanding of the impact of the word Xenophobic.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Atobe, why do you assume that Singaporeans do not have the verbal aptitude to use such words in daily life?
It has to be almost like a "knee-jerk" response in a sudden confrontation.
How many Singaporean can truly make such a response in a sudden confrontation, and with any understanding to the full meaning and application of such a technical word ?
If the event did happen the way it was described, the Singaporean concerned must be well educated, and peeved to be taught a lesson in manners by an "Ang Moh".
It perhaps reflect a certain degree in reasserting false pride for having one's poor etiquette being exposed - ( to recover from one's inferior position by aggressively being superior ? ).
Inexcusable to say the least but I wonder why couldn't Buxton let it pass, if he is prepared to hold it open long enough ?