World Bank : Singapore Should Waive Ban on Outdoor Protests
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like the mushroom has said, a lot of these protests end up in huge whacking all-out fights....
so.. if you want to see downtown orchard road reduced to rubble, or you want to see your neighbourhood chap huay tiam looted, or your own little bit of HDBland or suburb turned into a charred, smoky, combat zone littered in broken glass, rocks and other debris, go ahead.. have your outdoor demos..
as much as i hate the IMF for being economic dictator overlords, i hate the anarchists and mayhem-mongers as much.. -
If the protest is a stationary one that I think its no problem holding it outdoors. But if its going to be like a march, then it will cause quite a jam on the roads.
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the past IMF demonstrations were supposed to be peaceful ones too..
please check for common factor in all of them
Originally posted by Anycall:If the protest is a stationary one that I think its no problem holding it outdoors. But if its going to be like a march, then it will cause quite a jam on the roads. -
since they sent vans of riot police against 4 unarmed protesters not long ago, this time they should send half of the army over to control the situation
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Actually I don't know much about what happened at these IMF protest. I 've only seen those carried out in HongKong. They had to have police escorts and road blocks. Jam like crazyOriginally posted by the Bear:the past IMF demonstrations were supposed to be peaceful ones too..
please check for common factor in all of them
Were previous IMF protests violent?
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Originally posted by Anycall:Actually I don't know much about what happened at these IMF protest. I 've only seen those carried out in HongKong. They had to have police escorts and road blocks. Jam like crazy
Were previous IMF protests violent? If so, then better not have them -
Seattle:
Hong Kong:
and already.. there have been plans to make Singapore a mess... click here => Target: Singapore -
I'm okay for fenced up areas with armed guards, as long as we don't remove their voice to be heard. It's voices, not wanton destruction.
Any destruction of property, you give me a bat, and I'll smash that asshole who starts it.
And on second thought, we need the civil space for public peaceful protest. As above, anyone who goes off tangent and starts to wreak havoc, smash him in knees. I don't care. -
what difference is there betweeen fenced spaces and indoors then?Originally posted by LazerLordz:I'm okay for fenced up areas with armed guards, as long as we don't remove their voice to be heard. It's voices, not wanton destruction.
Any destruction of property, you give me a bat, and I'll smash that asshole who starts it.
And on second thought, we need the civil space for public peaceful protest. As above, anyone who goes off tangent and starts to wreak havoc, smash him in knees. I don't care. -
Why risk them tearing up the interior of Suntec City?Originally posted by the Bear:what difference is there betweeen fenced spaces and indoors then?
The stifling heat outdoors will make them less energetic for any violent action.People had to take their chances in the rain, heat and what not, why should we give them airconditioned spaces indoors.
This is for those anarchic worms, not real individuals who are interested in peaceful dialogue sessions with the WB chaps. -
ahhh... you don't know, do you?
in an enclosed place, if anyone tries violence or vandalism, it is contained... and they cannot run..
they have physical barriers and the cops can move in as they are already contained...
outside, where it is hot, stuffy, wet... violence is quick to spark as there is simmering anger fuelled by heat -
sorry, you are stretching your imagination too far, there is too much exaggeration here. we are not talking about israeli lebanese war here. The demonstrators for WTO and IMF are not interested in demonstrating in any HDBland, for what? they don't fly all the way here to demonstrate for the sake of demonstration. Any demonstration will be around Suntec where the participants to the convention could see, where their voices could be heard from inside the meetings (hopefully). Unless we only allow them to speak at the Hong Lim Park or the speakers corner, which, for singaporean, should be situated next to the parliament house.Originally posted by the Bear:like the mushroom has said, a lot of these protests end up in huge whacking all-out fights....
so.. if you want to see downtown orchard road reduced to rubble, or you want to see your neighbourhood chap huay tiam looted, or your own little bit of HDBland or suburb turned into a charred, smoky, combat zone littered in broken glass, rocks and other debris, go ahead.. have your outdoor demos..
as much as i hate the IMF for being economic dictator overlords, i hate the anarchists and mayhem-mongers as much..
Many of the demonstrations that turned violent with destruction happened because locals hooligans joined in to vent their frustration for other reasons. In america even a 10 min blackout you will find looting. WTO demonstrators don't fly here to loot chap huay tiam. Check with the people in HK, you even find some very interesting stories about encounters between HK lady police and the demonstrators.
WTO and IMF meetings come with the freedom of expression, and demonstration is an integral part of it. We cannot just want the money and reputation for hosting the meetings but disallowing opposition to speak. Singapore ways are for Singaporean only.
WTO and IMF is an international event.
Hours after the demonstrations in HK, life was back to normal, business as usual, but what happened there was an illustration that the decisions makers for the world and those affected by their decisions and disagree could meet, in their different ways. HK has not suffered any incurable damage from the demonstration. HK police have proven themselves capable of facing the south korean farmers. HK society was resilient enough to absorb some disturbance to their busy life. Such is an international city.
What about Singapore? is our society likely to collapse as a result of the demonstration or our riot police not capable of facing any major event?? may be they are trained to handle local opposition only.
I was there in HK during the WTO, I walked by the demonstrators, I saw how the HK police encountered the demonstrator from about 50 meters. I would be ashamed of the singaporean leaders if they think they could not handle similiar situation. -
if you can prevent mayhem, would you?
let's march to your estate.. or bypass your estate? would you?
ultimately, these demonstrators have a cause to be angry.. but emotions are high and there is simmering anger..
agitators are always around during these things...
this isn't "someone else's city and problem" anymore.. it is my backyard..
what if they trash your dad's shop in the riot? would you be saying the same thing? -
The idea is not to allow them to do whatever they like, but to provide a way out. imagine what might happen in singapore. meeting is in Suntec, government is closing nicholl highway anyway. They can be allowed to gather at kallang stadium car park and match to Suntec.
if they gather in front of isetana then match along bras basah to suntec, or gather at padang then of course we cannot allow.
they will have a long distance to match if want to start from my estate.
of course they have a course to demonstration and to be angry, or else they won't fly all the way here. lets not add another reason for them to be angry. even pressure cooker need a vent.
if what WTO and IMF decide affect us adversely, I would want to have a way to show them my displeasure. If i protest only if it doesn't concern me or not in my own backyard, then we don't deserve to be part of WTO. Remember, it is WTO that is requesting us to waive the ban.
I will be there at my brother's shop inside Suntec city, we are looking forward to better business. dont' jump into conclusion that a demonstration will definitely turn into a riot. -
Violence or no violence - if Singaporeans are not allowed to protest in public places, and legislations prevent any assembly of more then three, why make any exception simply for foreigners, or for the sake of 'good appearance', or to appear 'politically correct' ?
Singapore's reputation has been set on good law and order, and orderliness to the dot - where parking a car facing the wrong direction is an offense even in an unused street !!!!
Why should this supposedly 'PROUD-TO-BE' First World Singaporeans be treated with less equality than those visitors, who are supposedly from the First World countries ?
Why should our 'First World' country bow to the pressure of other 'First World' countries ?
What does it speak of our Singapore 'First World' Politicians ? -
Based on their past record, demonstrations at these meetings tend to turn violent.Originally posted by sgdiehard:The idea is not to allow them to do whatever they like, but to provide a way out. imagine what might happen in singapore. meeting is in Suntec, government is closing nicholl highway anyway. They can be allowed to gather at kallang stadium car park and match to Suntec.
if they gather in front of isetana then match along bras basah to suntec, or gather at padang then of course we cannot allow.
they will have a long distance to match if want to start from my estate.
of course they have a course to demonstration and to be angry, or else they won't fly all the way here. lets not add another reason for them to be angry. even pressure cooker need a vent.
if what WTO and IMF decide affect us adversely, I would want to have a way to show them my displeasure. If i protest only if it doesn't concern me or not in my own backyard, then we don't deserve to be part of WTO. Remember, it is WTO that is requesting us to waive the ban.
I will be there at my brother's shop inside Suntec city, we are looking forward to better business. dont' jump into conclusion that a demonstration will definitely turn into a riot.
However, we must give them some space for such demonstrations or risk having them go underground and demonstrate in a dozen different places in the HDB heartland. Perhaps one possibility is to suround an area of the Padang with high fences and barbed wire for those who want to demonstrate in open air. Have limited number of entrances and exits, concentrate police and army presence with armed Gurkhas and riot vehicles. Those who want to go and observe the demonstrations enter at their risk. -
when you come to MY HOUSE, you obey MY LAWS
when i go to YOUR HOUSE, i obey YOUR LAWS
which part of that simple courtesy did those people not understand? -
evacuate the citizens, plant bombs at the places where the open air protests are held. made it known that if the open air protests get rowdy or sligthly violent all of them will die
let them make an informed choice about having their protest outside
and fence in the venue too.
also provide them the safer suntec where they can only sit in one corner of the hall -
Talks of "Courtesy" and "Foreigners" again ?Originally posted by the Bear:when you come to MY HOUSE, you obey MY LAWS
when i go to YOUR HOUSE, i obey YOUR LAWS
which part of that simple courtesy did those people not understand?
May lead to more xenophobia....... -
i dunno... maybe their handmade noodles got tir kua one?
Originally posted by Atobe:
Talks of [b]"Courtesy" and "Foreigners" again ?
May lead to more xenophobia.......
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Is the reputation of good law and order in Singapore coming from strong arms and at the expense of freedom? or as part of an educated and civilized society?
Are Singaporeans proud of being treated the way we are treated, cannot demonstrate, no gathering of more than three, as long as the government treat eveybody the same? if you do, I have nothing to say.
But, if demonstration at the convention were allowed and turn out to be ok for everybody, may be this could lead to more relax enforcement of the no demonstration rules for Singaporean in the future, you never try, you never know.
It is not about bowing to the pressure of anybody. If no demonstration allowed then WTO would reduce the scale of convention by having some meetings like those on farm produce subsidies, outside of singapore, then I say there is pressure.
If you open a pub, you want to sell alcohol but you want every customers to speak softly as if in a western restaurant, you are certain to drive away some customers. It is different people wanting to come to you house and you want to enforce your house rules.
Sure we want to enforce our rules, I wont be so loud if I am not proud of the rules myself. -
The Alternative Parties have always been pushed to hold their activities within some confined area - either in some rented halls, or some sports stadium.
However, it is the issuing of licence that is used to spoil the organising efforts of the Alternative Parties - as these are not processed by the Police licensing department, but in all probability assessed and decided by the Minister of Home Affairs - by a Elite Member from the Inner Clique of the P.O.O.
The type of sound system that can be used, the public security aspects are all reviewed and imposed onto the organiser of the event, which as to be complied with regardless of the ridiculous standards or costs imposed.
Meanwhile, terms for access by local and foreign media will also be dictated - which in any case bears no consequences from the state controlled local media.
We will need to see if the same terms will be followed in granting license to the organisers of this event, to hold their protests indoors. -
If even one Singaporean is harmed by these farking foreign protestors, whether Korean or cockasian, we will wash our streets in foreign blood.
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throw in protest goodie bags.....contain inflatable clapper, metal water bottles, gas masks and pebbles. or yah....plus a bottle of kerosense and a lippo lighter.Originally posted by ditzy:Singapore is first in everything, even limiting protesters indoors. Do the protesters need to register themselves or buy a day pass or something? Got season pass? How about buy 4 get 1 free?