Influx of foreigners a threat to our National Identity?
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PM Lee said we will have to allow more foreigners to become Singapore citizens. I don't think that is a good idea although it will solve the problems of an aging population and ensure that the population remains vibrant and productive. However, allowing foreigners into our country is equivalent to allowing strangers into our house.
Firstly, our local culture will clash with their foreign culture.
Secondly, even when they have their Singapore citizenship, we are still able to differentiate them from the locals so majority will still view them as foreigners. Having foreigners fighting over the rice bowl with the locals, the social cohesiveness will be weaken.
Thirdly, the locals will feel threaten by the presence of foreigners because most of them are willing to accept low pays, have better performances or protray themselves as foreign talents.
Conclusion, number of foreigners entering our countries must be restricted. -
When they ever listen to the our voice. Their mindset is " I say, u listen" coz they r elites
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Our national identity is one that has influx of foreigners.
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Paradox nation.Originally posted by Ponders:Our national identity is one that has influx of foreigners.
Anyway, foreigners are welcome as long as they have something to contribute and do not contribute the duplication of services. -
We care, they don't care, takes two hands to clap, ged wat i mean?
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im anti-foreigners :> and also anti-foreign talent ....
why not use that money , and invest on singaporeans ? -
Male Singaporeans have to serve reservist ICTs, if you are an employer, who would you employ? S'poreans or male FTs?
Female S'poreans can have a longer maternity leave, if you an employer, who would you employ? Female S'poreans or female FTs?
FTs willing to take lower pay, because they can convert S$ to bigger local currency when they go home.
FTs willing to take lower pay, because the costs of their college education in India is much lower than in Singapore.
Now that we may start recognising degrees from India, might as well shut down our universities since they charge such high fees, and outsource our tertiary education there too.
I know it sounds contradictory, but i think we have no choice but to have more foreigners in Singapore. No choice at all. But i hope the government would implement policies that are more supportive of Singaporeans. -
wif many singaporeans immigrant to other lands and more n more foreigners coming in to become PR... one of these days, we will become minority in our own land. our jobs, properties will be taken by them. the government did not take into account that we are invaded.
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Are you that uncle who ang mo open door for you and tell him you are xenophobic?Originally posted by gUms:im anti-foreigners :> and also anti-foreign talent ....
why not use that money , and invest on singaporeans ?
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Are PRs able to purchase HDB flats and get subsidies?
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Originally posted by NUS_Superst@r:
conclusion, our opinions are not important!!
Conclusion, number of foreigners entering our countries must be restricted.[/b] -
When got lift upgrading, they pay $10500, not $500.Originally posted by tqw:Are PRs able to purchase HDB flats and get subsidies? -
Singapore is a multi-cultural society and that is our local culture. The presence of foreign talents or workers could served as a bridge to cross-cultural exchange or simply be view as a makeup for the industry facing shortage of labour demand. The latter is of paramount importance to foster a healthy economic growth.
Since the presence of these personnel can be a short period to a longer stay, it cannot simply be dismissed as diluting local culture much less against the four strong ethical groups rooted here. In fact, their presence might serve to refine on the local culture or foster closer cultural link for Singapore diplomatically which automatically translate into peace, stability and economic growth in the region. In near future, citizens around the world would have to come to term that the mitigation of talents all over the world is getting to be a norm rather than a rarity, perhaps its time to open our heartsÂ’ graciously and to learn from each other rather than stubbornly refusing to change the inevitable changes.
When a fellow foreigner earned his/her Singapore citizenship by his/her contribute talent to the nation, then he/she should no longer be view as a foreigner but entitle to the rights of a fellow citizen. The social cohesiveness cannot be erode away if properly communication and mutual understanding have been forged in the first place. Critically, protectionism policy on citizensÂ’ rice bowl is a past concept and this mentality had to be shifted in the globalising world. As far as the government can create jobs aplenty, the government is not able to counteract the labour market demand looking for able talents.
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The issue is wat type of FTs are we attracting here? Professionals or Prostitutes or both .Originally posted by TooFree:Singapore is a multi-cultural society and that is our local culture. The presence of foreign talents or workers could served as a bridge to cross-cultural exchange or simply be view as a makeup for the industry facing shortage of labour demand. The latter is of paramount importance to foster a healthy economic growth.
Since the presence of these personnel can be a short period to a longer stay, it cannot simply be dismissed as diluting local culture much less against the four strong ethical groups rooted here. In fact, their presence might serve to refine on the local culture or foster closer cultural link for Singapore diplomatically which automatically translate into peace, stability and economic growth in the region. In near future, citizens around the world would have to come to term that the mitigation of talents all over the world is getting to be a norm rather than a rarity, perhaps its time to open our heartsÂ’ graciously and to learn from each other rather than stubbornly refusing to change the inevitable changes.
When a fellow foreigner earned his/her Singapore citizenship by his/her contribute talent to the nation, then he/she should no longer be view as a foreigner but entitle to the rights of a fellow citizen. The social cohesiveness cannot be erode away if properly communication and mutual understanding have been forged in the first place. Critically, protectionism policy on citizensÂ’ rice bowl is a past concept and this mentality had to be shifted in the globalising world. As far as the government can create jobs aplenty, the government is not able to counteract the labour market demand looking for able talents.
If we r looking around except in the Universities, the hawker centres, factories and coffee shops, are full of all these so called FTs , r they whom do we need to contribute to our society.
Worst still!they hve the cheek to protest n demand 4 jobs where we dont owe them a living,do we want this to happen in Spore again?? -
I have said it before; THEY care but only for the ECONOMY which in turn, churn in the MONEY for THEMSELVES.
They make the MEGA BUCKS, we just merely crawl along - except for the all mighty rich and elite citizens.
Clear cut.
All their talk are concerning ECONOMY. Neverminding the social ills that FTs from PRC bring in. Never wondering WHY people aren't having babies. Never really got proactive about reducing some basic living costs or work at least towards making having a baby less costly.
Looks to me they are now banking hard on FTs to provide the babies. -
I'd very much agree with your views towards FT.Originally posted by TooFree:Singapore is a multi-cultural society and that is our local culture. The presence of foreign talents or workers could served as a bridge to cross-cultural exchange or simply be view as a makeup for the industry facing shortage of labour demand. The latter is of paramount importance to foster a healthy economic growth.
Since the presence of these personnel can be a short period to a longer stay, it cannot simply be dismissed as diluting local culture much less against the four strong ethical groups rooted here. In fact, their presence might serve to refine on the local culture or foster closer cultural link for Singapore diplomatically which automatically translate into peace, stability and economic growth in the region. In near future, citizens around the world would have to come to term that the mitigation of talents all over the world is getting to be a norm rather than a rarity, perhaps its time to open our heartsÂ’ graciously and to learn from each other rather than stubbornly refusing to change the inevitable changes.
When a fellow foreigner earned his/her Singapore citizenship by his/her contribute talent to the nation, then he/she should no longer be view as a foreigner but entitle to the rights of a fellow citizen. The social cohesiveness cannot be erode away if properly communication and mutual understanding have been forged in the first place. Critically, protectionism policy on citizensÂ’ rice bowl is a past concept and this mentality had to be shifted in the globalising world. As far as the government can create jobs aplenty, the government is not able to counteract the labour market demand looking for able talents.
On our part, we should welcome capable foreign talents to join into our ranks and contribute their part to lift up our overall quality. But to check and balance, we must ensure that only the best make it here. And not any Tom, Dick & Harry. Let me explain by sharing 2 examples.
Mr Cao Guo Min from Setsco is an executive chemist. He assists my workshop by analysing oils for my workshop engineering projects. His English sux though he tries to converse in English and it's a chore to communicate with English. But I think his contributions technically compensated on his language handicap. Of course, at the rate he is going, one day his English will improve. (I'm more worried it might become Singlish) With his help, my projects become higher in quality.
Mr Chin Tech Sing is a Malaysian mechanic in SBS Transit with decades of experience in Singapore. I'd very much hope that he's stay longer even he's already in his late fifties. He has expressed that he wants to go back to Malaysia in 2 to 3 more years after his son starts to work. Mr Chin together with another Singaporean colleague are my twin champions (1 Malaysian 1 Singaporean). Whenever we're pushing buses for the road, I will look for them. Fast and efficient. On weekends, I always ensure at least one of them is around to help me fight the battle. From a management point of view, he has helped to increase competition among my mechanics and I'm extremely pleased with the contributions he has made.
In actual fact, becos of the super mechanics, most of the rest have bucked up and saved themselves from the recent retrenchment.
We as local Singaporeans should not deem these FT as unwelcomed guests. But as an opportunity to upgrade ourselves. When I choose an employee, I don't look only at their wages, I look at their attitude 1st. And if the guy is not right, I will not hesitate to ask him to go even after he starts work. If I can spend $500 more for a mechanic and groom another champion to take over Mr Chin TS, I will be very willing to do that.
Fellow Singaporeans, I sincerely urge all of you to welcome the right FT to enter Singapore. On our part, we should buck up and help push the economy together. We may be different now. But our grandchildren will speak the same language, kiss the same floor when their Sergeants say "Whole lot! knock it down." -
Originally posted by MS:
We need them. Like it or not. I think no one can dispute that.
I'd very much agree with your views towards FT.
On our part, we should welcome capable foreign talents to join into our ranks and contribute their part to lift up our overall quality. But to check and balance, we must ensure that only the best make it here. And not any Tom, Dick & Harry. Let me explain by sharing 2 examples.
Mr Cao Guo Min from Setsco is an executive chemist. He assists my workshop by analysing oils for my workshop engineering projects. His English sux though he tries to converse in English and it's a chore to communicate with English. But I think his contributions technically compensated on his language handicap. Of course, at the rate he is going, one day his English will improve. (I'm more worried it might become Singlish) With his help, my projects become higher in quality.
Mr Chin Tech Sing is a Malaysian mechanic in SBS Transit with decades of experience in Singapore. I'd very much hope that he's stay longer even he's already in his late fifties. He has expressed that he wants to go back to Malaysia in 2 to 3 more years after his son starts to work. Mr Chin together with another Singaporean colleague are my twin champions (1 Malaysian 1 Singaporean). Whenever we're pushing buses for the road, I will look for them. [b]Fast and efficient. On weekends, I always ensure at least one of them is around to help me fight the battle. From a management point of view, he has helped to increase competition among my mechanics and I'm extremely pleased with the contributions he has made.
In actual fact, becos of the super mechanics, most of the rest have bucked up and saved themselves from the recent retrenchment.
We as local Singaporeans should not deem these FT as unwelcomed guests. But as an opportunity to upgrade ourselves. When I choose an employee, I don't look only at their wages, I look at their attitude 1st. And if the guy is not right, I will not hesitate to ask him to go even after he starts work. If I can spend $500 more for a mechanic and groom another champion to take over Mr Chin TS, I will be very willing to do that.
Fellow Singaporeans, I sincerely urge all of you to welcome the right FT to enter Singapore. On our part, we should buck up and help push the economy together. We may be different now. But our grandchildren will speak the same language, kiss the same floor when their Sergeants say "Whole lot! knock it down."[/b]
But what worries many of us are the advantages that the FTs have over us as I have listed above. -
As pointed out by MS, we need FTs at all levels, from the scientists needed to grow our biomedical industry to the mechanics and production workers who are able to provide satisfactory services at lower prices than their Singaporean counterparts. That raises the competitiveness of Singaporean companies and grows the economy.Originally posted by sourketchup:We need them. Like it or not. I think no one can dispute that.
But what worries many of us are the advantages that the FTs have over us as I have listed above.
Of course there are winners and losers. The winners are the Singaporean employers, the FT and the nation as a whole. The losers are low- and semi-skilled Singaporeans who will see their wages depressed as a result.
Every developed nation will face a similar challenge, from Singaporeans who face PRC citizens to British workers who lose their jobs to Polish immigrant workers.
As to where to draw the balance, I believe in utilitarianism...what will bring about the greatest good for the greatest number of people. Without FTs, our SMEs will not be as competitive and will have to move operations to cheaper economies in the region. Singapore will suffer a double whammy: losing both the jobs and the tax revenue, not to mention the entrepreneurs who move their businesses overseas.
The recent move to increase the number of doctors and lawyers with second medical and law schools may hurt the wages of existing lawyers and doctors. We already have cheap foreign doctors in our health service. But that is a price we have to pay to contain healthcare costs and grow the economy.
Singaporeans have to look at the greater good. Ultimately, if the nation loses competitiveness and businesses re-locate elesewhere, we all lose. -
Originally posted by foomwee88:The issue is wat type of FTs are we attracting here? Professionals or Prostitutes or both .
If we r looking around except in the Universities, the hawker centres, factories and coffee shops, are full of all these so called FTs , r they whom do we need to contribute to our society.
Worst still!they hve the cheek to protest n demand 4 jobs where we dont owe them a living,do we want this to happen in Spore again??
The FT at hawker centres, factories and coffee shops are just simply more visible to the public. That's why people are complain so much. Why don't they complain about the FT who are working but are invisible to the crowd? -
I understand second generation PR need to serve NS like I n reservist no.
Some foreigners r good n there some bad egg also. -
I find the xenophobic characteristic displayed by some of my fellow Singaporeans worrying. They speak as though living in prosperity in Singapore is a right, not something that we need to fight for. The same characteristic that I found among groups of youths in many well to do western countries. I cannot help but remembered how hard our forefathers worked when they first migrated to Singapore from their hometown, be it in China, Malaysia or India. And today, we the descendants of those who had fought so hard to prosper, are now demanding our government to keep out others with the same spirit of our forefathers so that we can have things easy!?!? What is the Ethos of us Singaporeans? Kiasuism? Was our state not built with sweat, blood and courage of our forefathers such as ricksaw pullers, coolies, construction workers. And instead of continuing the spirits that our forefathers displayed, we, who grew up in relative comfort compared to the majority of the rest of the world, we act as if we have inherited the right to be rich and prosper without a fight. Sure, jobs are not as readily available as they were during the 80s, but we won't starve to death as long as we are willing to work. If we want to raise to the top, we shouldn't demand people to give it to us, we should fight for it with our true ability! The state had already provided us with great subsidies in terms of education, and that is our greatest capital!
When we talk about foreign talents, two pictures spring to mind, the "experts" picture and the "construction worker" picture. The experts possess the skills that Singapore lack of while the "construction workers" took the jobs that Singaporeans are refusing to do. Without these foreign people coming in, we will not have enough population to renew the labour force and economical growth will be hampered.
In terms of culture, one must remembered that the greatest part of our culture is its diversity and its tolerance. Refusing "foreign element" from entering into our culture would be the greatest betrayal to our culture.The current racial mix of Chinese, Malay and Indian are incidental, they will not stay the same forever and rejection of new immigrants will only plant the seed for future racial disharmony.
The NS may seem like unfairness to Singaporean males, but utility should override fairnes and there are measures such as extra pay that reduce the degree of such unfairness.
Foreign influx may appear frightening to some, but we were once foreign to this island too. -
I don't think that's really what PM Lee mentioned.
He was probably responding to recent critics against our foreign worker policy. By explaining his reasons, he actually compartmentalized the catagories.
Clearly, there are the worker bees and there are the queens.
The worker bees of course refer to our trash collectors and road sweepers, the so-called unglamourous portfolios Singaporeans avoid. In this case, we as a gracious public should offer our thanks to this group who are willing to take the 'scraps' left by Singaporeans who 'steer clear' of such filthy jobs.
The queens of course refer to entrepreneurs and professionals who bring along their skill and expertise; and in doing so, provide jobs for people.
As such it is unfair for critics to single out the queen catagory and blanket smear the policy. By doing so, those critics are ignoring the construction workers, shipyard labour and service providers who flood our 'avoid-at-all-costs' industries. -
I think most of us are convinced of the need to have more foreigners, even though our hearts are against it.
But the disadvantages we face compared to them, disadvantages that are structural and built into our Singaporean system have not been addressed yet.
Foreigners pay less for their college education(in India or China); they may not stay(actually, most won't become citizens), so they can accept lower pay, knowing that the Sing currency can give them a higher local currency when they go home(Malaysia, India or China); they do not serve NS, so male foreigners may be more desirable etc.
There is no getting away from it. If the foreigners don't come here, the jobs may go there. We should have more foreigners, but these and many other real issues have to be addressed. -
well .... would you suppose that the "natives" of certain countries where some Singaporeans aspire to migrate to are asking themselves the same question ? .....
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I think it is interesting and instructive to look at how other developed countries are tackling this problem.
Japan--No immigrants please. NO. No. No. They are now facing the problem of a depleting population.
USA--traditionally welcoming of immigrants. But not to forget, they have plenty of land, of opportunities. Making the pie bigger for everyone is really true for that country. However, emotions against immigrants still run high now and then. Just goes to show that even in the best of "melting-pots", sentiments of keeping "outsiders" out still exist.
UK--taking in Polish and Eastern Europeans next. Took in lots of Indians and blacks in the past. Not going into whether it is the right or wrong policy, but riots have erupted in the past. Even now, there are many conflicts.
France--took in lots of Algerians. Zidane is Algerian. But they still have problems assimilating them.
Taking in foreigners is a complex and emotive issue, but i'd just like to point out that like it or not, there will be deep feelings against it. I prefer not to have them, but recognise that our country cannot do without them and it is the right policy by the government to let them in.