Influx of foreigners a threat to our National Identity?
-
whatever we say here..
also no use.. just know that got people same thoughts as us..
then u will see PM lee says, "with my father's foresight, that made singapore what it is today.."
then u also lan lan.. just listen.. lolol..
ft come in.. we gotta go out lor.. balance abit..
or to solve aging population.. exterminate all personnel above 60..
sure solve.. -
I don't think that's really what PM Lee mentioned.
He was probably responding to recent critics against our foreign worker policy. By explaining his reasons, he actually compartmentalized the catagories.
Clearly, there are the worker bees and there are the queens.
The worker bees of course refer to our trash collectors and road sweepers, the so-called unglamourous portfolios Singaporeans avoid. In this case, we as a gracious public should offer our thanks to this group who are willing to take the 'scraps' left by Singaporeans who 'steer clear' of such filthy jobs.
we keep saying singaporean shy away from the filthy jobs. but why dont we ask ourselves why? one of the main reason is super low pay. at one end they lose their pride and yet pay peanuts? why peanuts? because there are easily available big pool of FT waiting in the wings to take these jobs at lower pay.
can we compete at that pay level? isnt it a chicken and egg question?
i strongly believe town council are not managing the conservation fees efficiently. how many times have we see our them removing some benches in a blk only to install the same kind some months later?
couldnt we give priority to the cleaning company who give priority to employing singaporeans.
in most cases,i would say, employers place economical benefits way above social responsibility. -
Since the presence of these personnel can be a short period to a longer stay, it cannot simply be dismissed as diluting local culture much less against the four strong ethical groups rooted here. In fact, their presence might serve to refine on the local culture or foster closer cultural link for Singapore diplomatically which automatically translate into peace, stability and economic growth in the region. In near future, citizens around the world would have to come to term that the mitigation of talents all over the world is getting to be a norm rather than a rarity, perhaps its time to open our heartsÂ’ graciously and to learn from each other rather than stubbornly refusing to change the inevitable changes.
it hard to understand why we need FT to foster closer cultural link for Singapore diplomatically which automatically translate into peace, stability and economic growth in the region. to ask ourselves honestly, deep inside how many of us had good friends from other ethnic groups which you freq.hang out for movies, clubbing. In army, isnt the smaller enthic group often form their own circle of friends? if after all these years, date before independence day we still cant foster that stability, isnt adding more diverse cultural gona make things worse? even after decades when opur great forefasther move to singapore we still have a ethnic group clashes in the 1960s?
talk about UK, i bet most of the british start to regret their immigration policy which they find it hard to tackle. terrorist which are british. from where?
yes we need FTs, but it must be tight control. at the speed at which FTs flood to singapore, i dont feel like i am singapore at times. some day shanghai, some day delhi, some day HCM. -
I find the xenophobic characteristic displayed by some of my fellow Singaporeans worrying. They speak as though living in prosperity in Singapore is a right, not something that we need to fight for. The same characteristic that I found among groups of youths in many well to do western countries. I cannot help but remembered how hard our forefathers worked when they first migrated to Singapore from their hometown, be it in China, Malaysia or India. And today, we the descendants of those who had fought so hard to prosper, are now demanding our government to keep out others with the same spirit of our forefathers so that we can have things easy!?!? What is the Ethos of us Singaporeans? Kiasuism? Was our state not built with sweat, blood and courage of our forefathers such as ricksaw pullers, coolies, construction workers. And instead of continuing the spirits that our forefathers displayed, we, who grew up in relative comfort compared to the majority of the rest of the world, we act as if we have inherited the right to be rich and prosper without a fight. Sure, jobs are not as readily available as they were during the 80s, but we won't starve to death as long as we are willing to work. If we want to raise to the top, we shouldn't demand people to give it to us, we should fight for it with our true ability! The state had already provided us with great subsidies in terms of education, and that is our greatest capital!
When we talk about foreign talents, two pictures spring to mind, the "experts" picture and the "construction worker" picture. The experts possess the skills that Singapore lack of while the "construction workers" took the jobs that Singaporeans are refusing to do. Without these foreign people coming in, we will not have enough population to renew the labour force and economical growth will be hampered.
In terms of culture, one must remembered that the greatest part of our culture is its diversity and its tolerance. Refusing "foreign element" from entering into our culture would be the greatest betrayal to our culture.The current racial mix of Chinese, Malay and Indian are incidental, they will not stay the same forever and rejection of new immigrants will only plant the seed for future racial disharmony.
The NS may seem like unfairness to Singaporean males, but utility should override fairnes and there are measures such as extra pay that reduce the degree of such unfairness.
Foreign influx may appear frightening to some, but we were once foreign to this island too.
we din shut the door on all FTs but just wish govt to have tighter control on things.when our forefather come to singapore, singapore is not even a country but a british colony/settlement. no one care about this island, get your money and F*&K off. situation now is rather different though it the same piece of land. we are singaporean, born, raise, serve our NS, educated here.
we just hope govt can have a tigher control on the immigration policy. make singaporean feel wanted and priority. trust me, since when is living in singapore as easy as you think especially when you start working in the society?
men that serve NS get extra pay only happen in govt uniform sector and some statutory board.
one of the main reason they come singapore is because of the safety, security that you, me, bro, fathers that spend 2.5 the very best years of our life provide for. thus asking those FTs who as you say has the intention to stay, breed next generation in singapore to serve 2 years in national duty. too much to ask for? -
National identity change all the time, with exception to long standing civilisations like Indian or Chinese
-
I do not think we should stop taking in FT but I do agree that the government should do more to reward Singaporean men who have served NS. It has to be something significant, tangible and makes a distinction between Singaporean men versus women, PRs and FT.Originally posted by reyes:we din shut the door on all FTs but just wish govt to have tighter control on things.when our forefather come to singapore, singapore is not even a country but a british colony/settlement. no one care about this island, get your money and F*&K off. situation now is rather different though it the same piece of land. we are singaporean, born, raise, serve our NS, educated here.
we just hope govt can have a tigher control on the immigration policy. make singaporean feel wanted and priority. trust me, since when is living in singapore as easy as you think especially when you start working in the society?
men that serve NS get extra pay only happen in govt uniform sector and some statutory board.
one of the main reason they come singapore is because of the safety, security that you, me, bro, fathers that spend 2.5 the very best years of our life provide for. thus asking those FTs who as you say has the intention to stay, breed next generation in singapore to serve 2 years in national duty. too much to ask for?
In view of the concern over medical costs, how about a 20% discount for medical treatment at government hospitals and polyclinics, but only for Singaporean men who have served NS. -
Yes, we may have been immigrants in the past, but we are citizens of Singapore now. It is a bit rich to get our males to serve NS for 2 and a half years (during my time). A time which we sacrificed to contribute to the security of our country, then get that brushed off. Not to mention the many injuries that happened to ourselves and our friends, plus a few deaths too.Originally posted by reyes:we din shut the door on all FTs but just wish govt to have tighter control on things.when our forefather come to singapore, singapore is not even a country but a british colony/settlement. no one care about this island, get your money and F*&K off. situation now is rather different though it the same piece of land. we are singaporean, born, raise, serve our NS, educated here.
we just hope govt can have a tigher control on the immigration policy. make singaporean feel wanted and priority. trust me, since when is living in singapore as easy as you think especially when you start working in the society?
men that serve NS get extra pay only happen in govt uniform sector and some statutory board.
one of the main reason they come singapore is because of the safety, security that you, me, bro, fathers that spend 2.5 the very best years of our life provide for. thus asking those FTs who as you say has the intention to stay, breed next generation in singapore to serve 2 years in national duty. too much to ask for?
And after that , we still get called up for yearly ICT, which in the private sector, puts male employees at a disadvantage, significantly or otherwise.
This issue must be addressed as our gates are opened. -
Originally posted by MS:
Fully agreed with U.
I'd very much agree with your views towards FT.
On our part, we should welcome capable foreign talents to join into our ranks and contribute their part to lift up our overall quality. But to check and balance, we must ensure that only the best make it here. And not any Tom, Dick & Harry. Let me explain by sharing 2 examples.
Mr Cao Guo Min from Setsco is an executive chemist. He assists my workshop by analysing oils for my workshop engineering projects. His English sux though he tries to converse in English and it's a chore to communicate with English. But I think his contributions technically compensated on his language handicap. Of course, at the rate he is going, one day his English will improve. (I'm more worried it might become Singlish) With his help, my projects become higher in quality.
Mr Chin Tech Sing is a Malaysian mechanic in SBS Transit with decades of experience in Singapore. I'd very much hope that he's stay longer even he's already in his late fifties. He has expressed that he wants to go back to Malaysia in 2 to 3 more years after his son starts to work. Mr Chin together with another Singaporean colleague are my twin champions (1 Malaysian 1 Singaporean). Whenever we're pushing buses for the road, I will look for them. [b]Fast and efficient. On weekends, I always ensure at least one of them is around to help me fight the battle. From a management point of view, he has helped to increase competition among my mechanics and I'm extremely pleased with the contributions he has made.
In actual fact, becos of the super mechanics, most of the rest have bucked up and saved themselves from the recent retrenchment.
We as local Singaporeans should not deem these FT as unwelcomed guests. But as an opportunity to upgrade ourselves. When I choose an employee, I don't look only at their wages, I look at their attitude 1st. And if the guy is not right, I will not hesitate to ask him to go even after he starts work. If I can spend $500 more for a mechanic and groom another champion to take over Mr Chin TS, I will be very willing to do that.
Fellow Singaporeans, I sincerely urge all of you to welcome the right FT to enter Singapore. On our part, we should buck up and help push the economy together. We may be different now. But our grandchildren will speak the same language, kiss the same floor when their Sergeants say "Whole lot! knock it down."[/b]
We r not against these FTs who can contribute but looking ard u now! who r they,are they just flies???
Pls reality, my cond has all these FTs where I can invite u 2 come!!! -
Like the chickens sleep till noon come out at night ,return during the hours of darkness. r they wat we want?? we hve a lot of stock here! sometimes give u free fruk as well!Originally posted by Parka:
The FT at hawker centres, factories and coffee shops are just simply more visible to the public. That's why people are complain so much. Why don't they complain about the FT who are working but are invisible to the crowd? -
Originally posted by sourketchup:I think it is interesting and instructive to look at how other developed countries are tackling this problem.
Japan--No immigrants please. NO. No. No. They are now facing the problem of a depleting population.
...... Despite that, big companies do realize that they do need foreign talent. Howard Stringer is CEO of Sony. Carlos Ghosn is CEO of Nissan. -
but these two are not chosen as their pay is lower, and besides, they are based in the country they live in,Originally posted by Parka: Despite that, big companies do realize that they do need foreign talent. Howard Stringer is CEO of Sony. Carlos Ghosn is CEO of Nissan.
now we are talking about immigrants who come here, have a same set of skills, lesser non-working days, are more enthu, request a lower pay, and fight with us for jobs.
-
Making sweeping and unfounded statements do not help the debate. In any case, are you afraid that the chickens will take away your rice bowl?Originally posted by foomwee88:Like the chickens sleep till noon come out at night ,return during the hours of darkness. r they wat we want?? we hve a lot of stock here! sometimes give u free fruk as well!
-
So good to welcome all these foreigners and people from China and India to Singapore....let them come and work and take our livelihoods away...and let some of them, with all their talents stay and add to the numbers....let the locals feel the heat...that's the way life should be....while those who are able, leave for the country of their choice
-
well ... in the end ... you got to accept it's a global tide ......Originally posted by Coquitlam:So good to welcome all these foreigners and people from China and India to Singapore....let them come and work and take our livelihoods away...and let some of them, with all their talents stay and add to the numbers....let the locals feel the heat...that's the way life should be....while those who are able, leave for the country of their choice
you don't think the people of the countries you're going to are asking themselves the same question ? .....
we should never be afraid of global competition .... poking our heads into the sand is NOT the solution .... you can keep them out by law, but you won't take away their competition ... it's only whether the competition is direct or not ....
welcome to the global age ...
but truth be told, I find that Singaporeans are much less accepting of immigrants (even they are of the same ethnicity) than many western countries ... that says so much about us doesn't it ..... but oh well ... that's hardly surprising eh ...cos sadly, multiculturalism is only skin deep in singapore anyways ... -
That is a good start. Good idea Mushroom.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:I do not think we should stop taking in FT but I do agree that the government should do more to reward Singaporean men who have served NS. It has to be something significant, tangible and makes a distinction between Singaporean men versus women, PRs and FT.
In view of the concern over medical costs, how about a 20% discount for medical treatment at government hospitals and polyclinics, but only for Singaporean men who have served NS. -
Why not tax all PRs and work permit holders a security tax and pay NSF economic wages, and NS man's pay through the companies, so companies don't lose money with NSman? and government of Singapore and Singaporeans not out of pocket for defence? and then we gladly welcome non-NS-performing FTs because the more we have the more we can tax and pay ourselves? More NS country clubs? Citizen gun clubs, armories, and ranges? NS man colonial holiday property??Originally posted by sourketchup:That is a good start. Good idea Mushroom. -
Forget about the clubs, spare the money for people who reproduce instead.Originally posted by Dogtor:Why not tax all PRs and work permit holders a security tax and pay NSF economic wages, and NS man's pay through the companies, so companies don't lose money with NSman? and government of Singapore and Singaporeans not out of pocket for defence? and then we gladly welcome non-NS-performing FTs because the more we have the more we can tax and pay ourselves? More NS country clubs? Citizen gun clubs, armories, and ranges? NS man colonial holiday property??
-
how much do you think that 2 years of a man's life, from his golden decade ... is worth ? ... $5000 ? ... or $70000 ? ....Originally posted by Dogtor:Why not tax all PRs and work permit holders a security tax and pay NSF economic wages, and NS man's pay through the companies, so companies don't lose money with NSman? and government of Singapore and Singaporeans not out of pocket for defence? and then we gladly welcome non-NS-performing FTs because the more we have the more we can tax and pay ourselves? More NS country clubs? Citizen gun clubs, armories, and ranges? NS man colonial holiday property??
if say, australia or canada, tax immigrants heavily, because you can't quite expect most immigrants to take up arms for their adopted countries, would you still want to go there ? ....
the question we should be asking ourselves is this: how did we get to this stage, where people are asking what's in it for ME, before I serve MY COUNTRY ? .... why so many people don't feel a sense of belonging to this land ... I'll be glad to take any monetary incentives of course
..... but I don't think a dollar and cents solution is the answer (this another aspect of the singaporean (garbarment) psyche that's flawed ... we throw money at a problem and expect it to go away .... -
quote of the day:
"Our problem is not the problem of Singaporeans giving up citizenships. Our biggest problem is getting people to come here, to take up residence and eventually become citizens. Our biggest problem is getting Singaporeans to have more babies." -
Let's call talented aliens who come here "singaforeigns". -
U r making a fool of yrself!Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Making sweeping and unfounded statements do not help the debate. In any case, are you afraid that the chickens will take away your rice bowl?
Pls c ard u to tell us the truth!!!
u R NOT ONLY VERY CHILDISH N FOLLOWg WHATEVER THE BOOKS STATED?
Can the chick taking over my job pls ask yrself can she taking away yr job! I m a professional n can let u have my full name 2 check with the institute but u whom i requested b4 not even dare to let my Doc son knows,shame on u pls not pretend who u r ? it is not shame if u r not.
The fact speaks 4 itself,it is no point to discuss on this issue since our great sg gov had decided on it.
But pls mind my words,we will taste the bitter end may b w/in the next 10 yrs when FTs' children hve grown up to serve the NS.
I hve given up on this gov who is not doing evil thgs like casino and also let the devil come in!!!!
The moralistic values had be in the past in this society. Worst still with these unthinkable graduates and useless FTs will bring our downfall very soon to come. -
I'd very much agree with your views towards FT.
On our part, we should welcome capable foreign talents to join into our ranks and contribute their part to lift up our overall quality. But to check and balance, we must ensure that only the best make it here. And not any Tom, Dick & Harry. Let me explain by sharing 2 examples.
Mr Cao Guo Min from Setsco is an executive chemist. He assists my workshop by analysing oils for my workshop engineering projects. His English sux though he tries to converse in English and it's a chore to communicate with English. But I think his contributions technically compensated on his language handicap. Of course, at the rate he is going, one day his English will improve. (I'm more worried it might become Singlish) With his help, my projects become higher in quality.
Mr Chin Tech Sing is a Malaysian mechanic in SBS Transit with decades of experience in Singapore. I'd very much hope that he's stay longer even he's already in his late fifties. He has expressed that he wants to go back to Malaysia in 2 to 3 more years after his son starts to work. Mr Chin together with another Singaporean colleague are my twin champions (1 Malaysian 1 Singaporean). Whenever we're pushing buses for the road, I will look for them. Fast and efficient. On weekends, I always ensure at least one of them is around to help me fight the battle. From a management point of view, he has helped to increase competition among my mechanics and I'm extremely pleased with the contributions he has made.
In actual fact, becos of the super mechanics, most of the rest have bucked up and saved themselves from the recent retrenchment.
We as local Singaporeans should not deem these FT as unwelcomed guests. But as an opportunity to upgrade ourselves. When I choose an employee, I don't look only at their wages, I look at their attitude 1st. And if the guy is not right, I will not hesitate to ask him to go even after he starts work. If I can spend $500 more for a mechanic and groom another champion to take over Mr Chin TS, I will be very willing to do that.
Fellow Singaporeans, I sincerely urge all of you to welcome the right FT to enter Singapore. On our part, we should buck up and help push the economy together. We may be different now. But our grandchildren will speak the same language, kiss the same floor when their Sergeants say "Whole lot! knock it down."
well the above speech should be read by our union secretary during union days or PM speech. these underlines our very concern,
1.The Mr Chin Tech Sing is a Malaysian mechanic in SBS Transit with decades of experience in Singapore apply for a Singapore citizenship? or does he treat singapore like a money spinning machine. spent years here, save up and retire in malaysia where medical, expenditure, housing, car are much cheaper?
is this FT where PM mention will booast birth rate, merge into our muiltiiracial society?
2.Mr Cao Guo Min from Setsco is an executive chemist. if he that good, welcome him, i would appreciate if he stay, have second generation here. serve their NS here. that is exactly what our forefather did.
dont just criticise fellow singaporean by using terms such as globalisation as an excuse for uncontrollable influx of foreign cheap labour.
if any company decided to set up office/factory in singapore, trust me, cost of labour would not be top of their priority coz singapore are never well know to be cheap. But we are good, stable, hardworking lot. -
how much do you think that 2 years of a man's life, from his golden decade ... is worth ? ... $5000 ? ... or $70000 ? ....
if say, australia or canada, tax immigrants heavily, because you can't quite expect most immigrants to take up arms for their adopted countries, would you still want to go there ? ....
the question we should be asking ourselves is this: how did we get to this stage, where people are asking what's in it for ME, before I serve MY COUNTRY ? .... why so many people don't feel a sense of belonging to this land ... I'll be glad to take any monetary incentives of course ..... but I don't think a dollar and cents solution is the answer (this another aspect of the singaporean (garbarment) psyche that's flawed ... we throw money at a problem and expect it to go away ....
well said, 2.5 years of the best year of our life is priceless.
if it is priceless then how come many of my ICT mates, brothers in arm feel worthless?
let say, we dont tax FT heavily. but we want their son to serve NS. sign a bond of fulfilling NS period before next immigration. i dont think it is too hard to ask for.
the very reason this is our piece of land that why we are here fighting for the very of our own singaporean rights to survive, the rights of us. In view of falling singaporean birth rate, FTs leave and come as they wish, are they gona solve the problem of ageing population?
if we attract those Ft who are here to stay, breed second generation. i say welcome them.
all i can see govt giving easier PR application approval procurdure, FT setting celing of singaporean pay structure( low skill singapore suffer). -
[quote]Originally posted by reyes:
[b]how much do you think that 2 years of a man's life, from his golden decade ... is worth ? ... $5000 ? ... or $70000 ? ....
if say, australia or canada, tax immigrants heavily, because you can't quite expect most immigrants to take up arms for their adopted countries, would you still want to go there ? ....
the question we should be asking ourselves is this: how did we get to this stage, where people are asking what's in it for ME, before I serve MY COUNTRY ? .... why so many people don't feel a sense of belonging to this land ... I'll be glad to take any monetary incentives of course ..... but I don't think a dollar and cents solution is the answer (this another aspect of the singaporean (garbarment) psyche that's flawed ... we throw money at a problem and expect it to go away .... quote
Totally agreed!!!
Wat we hve here is the country and our children are at stake ?
Fellow S'porean pls spare our future in yr thought rather than talking about all THIS $ talk lah, a typical one like the self proclaimed Doc whom had made me vomitting my food every am. If we hve these professionals ,I think our country will hve great problem in the near future -
Even if the government bring in so many foreigners,but they also cannot manage to attract them stay on n become real Singapore citizens.Why?Becoz Singapore has become an unattractive place due to the PAP leaders dictatorial ruling.Those foreign talents wont really want to stay here for the rest of their lives n let their 2nd generations serve the stupid NS+reservist+IPPT test in here.
And besides,if they become Singapore citizens,they will face the same problem as what we Singapore citizens are facing,that is high cost of living,low wages,long working hours,dictatorship rules by Lee family etc.No one will like this stupid country.As a matter of fact,when i met newbie foreign talent,i will act as a "Singapore embassador" n tell them how lousy this country is. .......But i think he or she will realise it sooner or later during their stay in Singapore,no problem at all. 
And there is another thing i want to say,although it is off topic.During the election time,young Lee actually use "email" to command Lou Goh to help him to win the election in Hougang n Potong Pasir areas.I dont know how far is young Lee office to Lou Goh office,but if i were young Lee,i will personally go to Lou Goh office to ask him for help in the election.This show how arrogant this young Lee is.........But then again,i think there is no need to give so much respect to a "boot-licking dog"