Influx of foreigners a threat to our National Identity?
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The RSAF officer had already converted his citizenship to be Sporean. It seemed to u think all PRC r eveil doers.Originally posted by equlus84:I think soon Singapore is going to acquire a new reputation. The name is the "Cuckoid Republic". Seriously, many of the throngs of Indian and PRC citizens we see here are not really interested to become citizens, they may not be even interested we our way of doing things or attempt to assimilate. Many are here just for the FREE SCHOLARSHIP and LAX IMMIGRATION POLICY. From my interaction with PRCians in my Uni, my would not even consider coming here to study let alone get PR, some were even full of complains abt us, thinking that this is their backyard. They are laughing all their way to the bank for the "Deity-like" reception provided by our govt. THE WORST IS-- MOST DUN EVEN WANT TO STAY. Thus I beg to ask, why bother to give them the scholarship? Even if we give, why can't we instill some 3 yrs compulsory, NS-like, "national education service term", to make them understand our way of life, and most importantly, weed out the "free-loaders".
Wad worries me most is, when the number of PR, our ppls from a certain nationality becomes a large force, so large that they become formidable, then these ppls may meddle with our internal affairs. For example, in my uni, the PRC students are such a large population that they can actually form an activity known as PRC-camp. They do not need to mix around with others from other nationalities as their numbers could easily fill half the lecture theatre. We also see the recent clam down on errant PDMMs. Many PDMMs can actually protest outside the embassy and the newspapers, talk-shows are filled with sympathisers, some even come out to defend their misdeeds. So much so that many ppls are thinking that we Singaporeans are actually ill-treating them. Thus, I could see a strong "PRC lobby" being form. They are going to be lke the Jewish lobby in USA, influencing the govt policies. We could expect locals views and ideas being suppressed and sacrificed for the sake of their interest. Bcos our govt treat them like god, thus their words ae going to be viewed as "scarced teachings". I also wonder why SAF wants to give the SAFOs to the PRC guy? -
i feel threatened by their presence............Originally posted by NUS_Superst@r:PM Lee said we will have to allow more foreigners to become Singapore citizens. I don't think that is a good idea although it will solve the problems of an aging population and ensure that the population remains vibrant and productive. However, allowing foreigners into our country is equivalent to allowing strangers into our house.
Firstly, our local culture will clash with their foreign culture.
Secondly, even when they have their Singapore citizenship, we are still able to differentiate them from the locals so majority will still view them as foreigners. Having foreigners fighting over the rice bowl with the locals, the social cohesiveness will be weaken.
Thirdly, the locals will feel threaten by the presence of foreigners because most of them are willing to accept low pays, have better performances or protray themselves as foreign talents.
Conclusion, number of foreigners entering our countries must be restricted.
yup......we should start to purge some of them out of this small place.......the room ain't large enough to hold so many.............
in a sinking frigate...........the weak shall be thrown overboard without any compassion........... -
I think encouraging the right kind of talent and bootstrap policies to improve Singaporeans as a whole is but one part of a solution.Originally posted by Anycall:I agree. Encouraging FTs here is not the answer. We should be looking at how to improve singaporeans as a whole rather than implementing such stop-gap measures.
It's the climate here that doesn't allow for ruggedness and individualism, two values which are needed to build a REAL citizenry, not merely a workforce.
How many times can you count where you wanted to do something, but were slapped down? Remember being told from young that you belonged here or there, and that you cannot choose?
Extrapolate that to the long-term, and some clues might appear. We need immigration, but only for sectors which cannot find adequate manpower. Most middle-management jobs do not need foreigners, because there is only duplication of services.
We should adopt the professional certification standards like Australia for our tradesmen, and allow them to improve through experience and incremental accreditation options. This would ensure that it doesn't remain a menial job. -
this is a very extremist view.Originally posted by gohkatkat:i feel threatened by their presence............
yup......we should start to purge some of them out of this small place.......the room ain't large enough to hold so many.............
in a sinking frigate...........the weak shall be thrown overboard without any compassion........... -
I believe not all PR or forign professional r fair weather people. U think all citizen really loyal to Spore?Originally posted by gohkatkat:i feel threatened by their presence............
yup......we should start to purge some of them out of this small place.......the room ain't large enough to hold so many.............
in a sinking frigate...........the weak shall be thrown overboard without any compassion...........
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CorrectOriginally posted by LazerLordz:I think encouraging the right kind of talent and bootstrap policies to improve Singaporeans as a whole is but one part of a solution.
It's the climate here that doesn't allow for ruggedness and individualism, two values which are needed to build a REAL citizenry, not merely a workforce.
How many times can you count where you wanted to do something, but were slapped down? Remember being told from young that you belonged here or there, and that you cannot choose?
Extrapolate that to the long-term, and some clues might appear. We need immigration, but only for sectors which cannot find adequate manpower. Most middle-management jobs do not need foreigners, because there is only duplication of services.
We should adopt the professional certification standards like Australia for our tradesmen, and allow them to improve through experience and incremental accreditation options. This would ensure that it doesn't remain a menial job.
Yet what the goverment is doing is allowing FTs in all sectors. Small wonder there is concern about this issue. -
Some of the professional merely using Spore as a stepping stone to other countries.Originally posted by Anycall:Correct Yet what the goverment is doing is allowing FTs in all sectors. Small wonder there is concern about this issue. -
That is why this dot on the map will just turn into a stop-over for anyone from anywhere.Originally posted by will4:Some of the professional merely using Spore as a stepping stone to other countries.
And why not? Just earn the money and go home. Good right?
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you should have heard what i have in australia.....the land of the pacific...........never heard about the posting of posters in WA ......esp the right hand wing or whatever that party in australia had to greet its foreign talents????? let me tell you.....they posted alot of banners as i have heard in karrawarra in bentley telling asians they aren't welcomed in their soil.......Originally posted by LazerLordz:this is a very extremist view.
why should we be so gracious to allow some foreigners into our soil ......some people may consider another race to be jinxed and taint their racial identity..........
for me i am more concerned because they are stealing our jobs............looking at the number of caucasians in orchard can really tell you something. -
I sometimes see many foregners in many schools.Originally posted by Anycall:That is why this dot on the map will just turn into a stop-over for anyone from anywhere.
And why not? Just earn the money and go home. Good right? 
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As you said , right-wing Australians.Originally posted by gohkatkat:you should have heard what i have in australia.....the land of the pacific...........never heard about the posting of posters in WA ......esp the right hand wing or whatever that party in australia had to greet its foreign talents????? let me tell you.....they posted alot of banners as i have heard in karrawarra in bentley telling asians they aren't welcomed in their soil.......
why should we be so gracious to allow some foreigners into our soil ......some people may consider another race to be jinxed and taint their racial identity..........
for me i am more concerned because they are stealing our jobs............looking at the number of caucasians in orchard can really tell you something.
Bentley is one of those lower-middle income areas, similarly, if you ask anyone in Toa Payoh, they would launch into a all-out war against the FTs too .
We have to be globalised, within reason.Not opening the floodgates, and also not about walling ourselves in.
Having said that, migrants ought to assimilate into our society for the larger part of life.If they don't like it here, they can bugger off. It's a free world, and I really have little regard for those PDMMs who beg and borrow to come here, and then do more here, and then complain like it's the end of the world when others label them.
Globalisation is not about going full speed at every bend, sometimes we all need a pit stop. Seems like one is coming up soon. -
U mean in Toa Payoh? What about other neighbourhood?Originally posted by LazerLordz:As you said , right-wing Australians.
Bentley is one of those lower-middle income areas, similarly, if you ask anyone in Toa Payoh, they would launch into a all-out war against the FTs too .
We have to be globalised, within reason.Not opening the floodgates, and also not about walling ourselves in. -
No offence to anyone in particular, but I'm just stating if you go and ask the older Singaporeans who also belong to the lower-middle income group, they are quite likely to label all foreigners as unwelcome too.Originally posted by will4:U mean in Toa Payoh? What about other neighbourhood?
I used Toa Payoh as an example of any HDB town, apologies if I do offend anyone. -
It is okay but as u knew, some of these foreigners do contribute if u happned to know some of the second generation PR also served NS.Originally posted by LazerLordz:No offence to anyone in particular, but I'm just stating if you go and ask the older Singaporeans who also belong to the lower-middle income group, they are quite likely to label all foreigners as unwelcome too.
I used Toa Payoh as an example of any HDB town, apologies if I do offend anyone. -
Ha haOriginally posted by will4:I sometimes see many foregners in many schools. 
. You forgot about the recent NUS business school ad? This is the image that the goverment wants to promote. Singapore as an educational hub comparable to the top schools in the world.
Then add in the other propaganda. Sure makes it appealing right? Then these foreign stutdents are charged high fees. SO the the bottom line is? Money For who? take a guess -
If they obtained PR, fees will be equally the same as Sporean. Speaking about foreigners, it seemed many service industry people friendlier to them comparedOriginally posted by Anycall:Ha ha . You forgot about the recent NUS business school ad? This is the image that the goverment wants to promote. Singapore as an educational hub comparable to the top schools in the world.
Then add in the other propaganda. Sure makes it appealing right? Then these foreign stutdents are charged high fees. SO the the bottom line is? Money For who? take a guess
to locals. -
Yes they do contribute, but do the lao cheks think so?Originally posted by will4:It is okay but as u knew, some of these foreigners do contribute if u happned to know some of the second generation PR also served NS.
In my own view, the contribution is not as important as whether he or she is duplicating a service that could be done by a Singaporean too. -
Some of the vocation in NS is not for PR esp those in the Intel.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Yes they do contribute, but do the lao cheks think so?
In my own view, the contribution is not as important as whether he or she is duplicating a service that could be done by a Singaporean too.
I think if they never servrf, this could further made local resent them more. -
just wondering ... have you lived in another country for any period of time ? ... this is not leading to a put down or anything, I would just like to write about some personal observations of mine .... you know, singaporeans aren't the only one gripping about their goverment not caring for them, surprise surprise eh ? ... : ) ... it's curious to me that many people in other countries are also gripping about "govt doing nothing to ease the burden of the people" ... but the curious thing is, people in other countries do not expect the goverment to take care of them ... they do not look towards the goverment for solutions ... rugged individualism ? jaded cynicism ? ... whatever ... but Singaporeans are certainly pretty unique in that when the going gets tough, they look to the goverment .... perhaps in a way, we are a victim's of our sucess ( quotes optional for you) ... are we equipped to deal with global competition ? ... I dunno ... and I'm afraid of the answer .....
regarding the old man and his decisions, you know, I'd rather have a goverment who's flexible and are not afraid of policy U-turns according to current realities, than a stubborn, resistant goverment whom you can never move on an issue ... eh ?
since u are well travel, i bet you dont heard often their govt claiming them to be first class govt with third class opposition correct? since they are first class , thus arent we suppose to have higher expectation from them compare to the other country.
point 2, they are very much well paid than american of all country, thus isnt it wrong to have a higher level of expectation from our minister and govt?
point 3 , we are not looking at govt to get things done for us on FT issue. in fact most of us are asking the govt to do us a favour by not doing so much to attract the unrelevant influx of FT into our country
what the point of any govt policy that doesnt seem to click well at the grassroot? my mistake, grassroots are indeed member of PAP. -
It is okay but as u knew, some of these foreigners do contribute if u happned to know some of the second generation PR also served NS.
did i heard wrongly? second generatio still PR? they reject citizen and prefer PR? if so, case of concern over govt policy. -
Why do we have so many foreigners working as domestic maids? Surely that is a service that can be easily provided by unskilled Singaporeans? The fact is, foreign maids are cheap. Singaporeans would not want to pay a decent salary for fellow Singaporeans to clean their homes and baby sit when they can have a full-time maid for $300 a month, working 12 hours a day without annual leave or weekend off.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Yes they do contribute, but do the lao cheks think so?
In my own view, the contribution is not as important as whether he or she is duplicating a service that could be done by a Singaporean too.
Singaporeans want a cheap service, and that means foreign workers even if the service can be provided at a higher price by Singaporeans. -
I shall not comment on the egos of our goverment, nor were my replies intended to be a vindication of goverment policies. I was talking about Singaporeans, you and I, that I felt have very much an ostrich-like mindset towards foreign "talent" and foreign competition.Originally posted by reyes:since u are well travel, i bet you dont heard often their govt claiming them to be first class govt with third class opposition correct? since they are first class , thus arent we suppose to have higher expectation from them compare to the other country.
point 2, they are very much well paid than american of all country, thus isnt it wrong to have a higher level of expectation from our minister and govt?
point 3 , we are not looking at govt to get things done for us on FT issue. in fact most of us are asking the govt to do us a favour by not doing so much to attract the unrelevant influx of FT into our country
what the point of any govt policy that doesnt seem to click well at the grassroot? my mistake, grassroots are indeed member of PAP.
Let me say it before hand first, once upon a time, I was "xenophobic" too, I read about all those gold digging "crows" from China in the chinese tabloids and got pissed, I heard of my female friends being gropped by foreign workers in orchard, I had friends gripe to me about working for pathetic white expat bosses with fossilized colonial mindsets, I had thought we should keep them out forever.
but then, I realised, hey, this is a global tide ... an inexorable tide that's happening all over the world, you don't suppose Singapore is the only place that people are flocking to, eh ? And it's worse in other countries too, while in Singapore we take in mostly people from other asian countries (with similar ethnic and cultural backgrounds), in many western countries, people flock from all over the world, so you see baggers at the groceries stores from antigua to zambia. take a look at this. Let me tell you, the influx and the outcry is certainly bigger in other countries compared to Singapore.
http://www.canadafirst.net/
read a few of their articles, I got this in the mail from a (white) canadian acquaintance as part of a talkc.ock session, but as you can see, this ostrich mentality is not exclusive to Singaporeans. The fact remains though, that global competition is NOT something you can keep out. Don't want foreign talents, who can do it better, faster, cheaper ? fine ! companies will just pack up and leave for places where they can get things done better, faster, cheaper then ! you think by keeping foreign talents and workers out you can keep your jobs ? that companies won't relocate out of Singapore ? welcome to reality, remember this, once upon a time, companies relocated to Singapore from their home countries precisely because we WERE the better, faster, cheaper ones, eh ? I remember talking to this old american in his fifties doing his masters in computer science in one of my senior year classes, I asked him why he was doing this, he told me he was replaced in his previous job (in canada) by an Indian chap half his age, nearly half his salary, and with twice his qualifications. Instead of whining, he elected to come back fighting, and so there he was.
I'm not sure about how much of the social aspects of this issue is due purely to "xenophobia" on part of our citizens. An interesting observation: once upon a time, some Singaporeans used to look down upon mainlanders, we derided them as country bumpkins, uncouth, kooky, with bad dress sense, now, however, we get pissed because those same mainlanders are now looking down on us ? ... I can't help but giggle here . I want to say that many of the social aspects of the problems doesn't lie with all these foreigners, but with ourselves, say, ah peks getting hooked up with PDMMs, or sweet young things on student visas, well, can one actually suppose those same ah peks weren't getting their "fixes" from batam or bangkok previously ? you think massage parlours selling a different kind of massage didn't exist before this group of people came along and took it to a whole new level ? to me, they are simply the ones that could do it "better, faster, cheaper".
Global competition is a fact, regardless of our goverment policies, it is something we cannot keep out, nor can we afford to. I sometimes wonder if a large section of our workforce is a victim of our own economic successes in our boom years. We now have a cadre of older, under-educated workers, some of whom are highly resistant to change, and under-equipped for this borderless world, where jobs can flow from one place to the next very quickly. Callous words perhaps from a young man with a brand new scroll and has yet to land himself his first post grad job yet, but this is a marathon that you and I, and every fellow Singaporean, have to run, it is the only way. The sooner we snap our heads out of the sand, the better, for the world won't wait for us ..... -
Foreign talents, or foreign non-talents, or cheap foreigners would have to come in. Either we like it or not. As a matter of fact, Malaysians, who are certainly foreigners technically, have been around for a long time. But they are our cousins, relatives, etc, so that sense of "otherness" is not as strong as that elicited by PRCs, Indians and Benglas.
The government, being the group who can make the changes, should however take steps so that we can compete with them. Our education, especially the tertiary portion, should be made cheaper. Now that 2 Indian colleges are having their medical degrees recognised, does it makes sense for NUS Medicine to charge the same amount of fees, then bond the the graduates for a further 5 years? Instead of giving scholarships to foreigners, how about giving more to our own instead?
Why can't our 2 universities take in much more of our poly graduates, instead of having so many of them being forced to go overseas in Australia and UK to pursue their degrees, thus incurring that much higher costs? Not to mention that is encouraging even more Singaporeans to leave Singapore.
2 years is a long time, especially during the 18 to 23 range, when a young man is in his prime, mentally and physically. And the annual ICT can put off potential employers when compared to a male foreigner.
Our housing costs are not cheap. The government is at least trying to rectify that now, in a way, by building 2 and 3 room flats again. The foreigners can take low pay, because they would not stay. Fine, don't stay then. But our own people need higher, less competitive pay because they need a roof over their heads! -
You people should go read what this forumer posted...
I find he made hell lot of sense!
What our gov is doing is very LPPL!
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=206923 -
I think our gov is making a big mistake by puting locals in the backseat over the population and economic issues, just like their "Stop at Two" family planning policy.
Giving people monetary INCENTIVES to locals to have babies can potentially skew society's sense of value of a new born life!
The solution is so simple; REDUCE SOME BASIC COSTS OF LIVING, HELP LOCALS SECURE GAINFUL EMPLOYMENT.
So hard to do???
Or is it because they don't make much this way??