Influx of foreigners a threat to our National Identity?
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Originally posted by pinkish purple papayas:
Yeah right - GROWTH.
I do believe our government is money-minded. We have taken a route that has no returns.
If the govt should stop enterprising and expanding, what is going to happen to our 4.3million citizens with limited space?
Perhaps you should rephase ur topic.
Business and social economics teaches that there is no way to maintain stable growth. The world is too competitive. [b]We must always try to reinvent ourselves.
I believe in contribution.[/b]
All these GROWTH through the decades - where did it go to? To the people?
One example such as the friggin' $300 per year medical subsidy for common ailments like Diabetes, Hypertension etc. under CPF Medisave scheme? That is growth?? The growth is probably in the gov's coffers, and the people are growing themselves all sorts of ailments from longer working hours with lesser pay and trying to have babies and look after it at the same time!
Growth my foot!
It's more like the gov importing more new citizens who will vote for them in future GEs. -
singapore is for singaporeans. so what if we shun them? what can they do? heck care the bad reputation; the government will get the bulk of it anyway. remember, government is for PAP. (and foreign trash)Originally posted by pinkish purple papayas:Have u not put on equal competition? if not, why?
why grudgingly? If u put a black face at them, they put a black face back at you, you come to Sgforums to complain about PRs, the PRs don't like you, you don't like the PRs, etc, etc, the cycle goes on.
I believe we should let PRs love this country. Shunning them would only leave us with a bad reputation. -
Actually, i feel very unfair for our forefathers who came all the way here to settle for a better living. The success of this nation has a lot to do with these ppl. It is not built within a day. Yet, from what i can see. FT just see Singapore as a stepping stone for a better living back in their own country., use our government subsidy for their benefits. What come to my mind is, " What have they even contributed to this little nation to enjoy all the benefits they are enjoying right now?"
They are just like the British colonial master, trying to make use of us. When they finish their business here, they will just wipe their backside and leave for their own countries. If there are any social problems, we still have to clear it up for them. WTF!
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Regarding the disadvantages vis a vis the foreigners, read the above postsOriginally posted by pinkish purple papayas:Have u not put on equal competition? if not, why?
why grudgingly? If u put a black face at them, they put a black face back at you, you come to Sgforums to complain about PRs, the PRs don't like you, you don't like the PRs, etc, etc, the cycle goes on.
I believe we should let PRs love this country. Shunning them would only leave us with a bad reputation.
As for why "grudgingly", that's because they don't assimilate well at all.
And as for PRs loving this country, well, they don't. They are using it as a place to go off to USA; or they are just earning the sing dollars to take advantage of the favourable exchange rate when they go home.
Do catch up. -
Well said. So what would you suggust if not introducing immigrants?Originally posted by ShutterBug:The growth is probably in the gov's coffers, and the people are growing themselves all sorts of ailments from longer working hours with lesser pay and trying to have babies and look after it at the same time!
Say, vote an opposition party?
Lets say the opposition party wins, what schemes will the opposite party do to carry out the growth and the public support?
No matter what, i think it still leads to opening our doors to immigrants and progress. -
What makes a singaporean singaporean? able to speak singlish? able to complain? born here?Originally posted by The Peacemaker:singapore is for singaporeans. so what if we shun them? what can they do? heck care the bad reputation; the government will get the bulk of it anyway. remember, government is for PAP. (and foreign trash)
Anti social behaviour doesn't go far in life, i think you should go travelling around the world. Its an eye opener. -
it is hard to define now. probably the sense of belonging; this is where i am born, this is where i belong to afterall?Originally posted by pinkish purple papayas:What makes a singaporean singaporean? able to speak singlish? able to complain? born here?
Anti social behaviour doesn't go far in life, i think you should go travelling around the world. Its an eye opener.
try being sociable when you see that your own government betrays you, and when you see that prospects are dimming.
and of course, i will travel around the world if i have the means. but sadly no, that's too bad. -
Someone said they take lesser wagers compared to real singaporeans.Originally posted by sourketchup:Regarding the disadvantages vis a vis the foreigners, read the above posts
As for why "grudgingly", that's because they don't assimilate well at all.
And as for PRs loving this country, well, they don't. They are using it as a place to go off to USA; or they are just earning the sing dollars to take advantage of the favourable exchange rate when they go home.
Do catch up.
If you take meagre salary, what would you do? switch companies right?
No. u will not switch companies, cause you love your present working environment and good colleagues.
Then, what makes you leave a company?
The low wages, the lousy enivironment and the bad attitute colleagues. Am i correct to say so?
So why are people(PRs), including singaporeans leaving the country? It has nothing to do with PRs, its human behaviour and reaction to the environments around us. -
Originally posted by pinkish purple papayas:
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about or alluding to or trying to explain.
Someone said they take lesser wagers compared to real singaporeans.
If you take meagre salary, what would you do? switch companies right?
[b]No. u will not switch companies, cause you love your present working environment and good colleagues.
Then, what makes you leave a company?
The low wages, the lousy enivironment and the bad attitute colleagues. Am i correct to say so?
So why are people(PRs), including singaporeans leaving the country? It has nothing to do with PRs, its human behaviour and reaction to the environments around us.[/b]
Anyway here goes,
foreigner comes here, can take low wages and work long hours. Is he/she a natural workaholic? Perhaps, but the vast majority can take the low wages because they never intend to stay here.
Are Singaporeans able to work for low wages? We can try. But we will never really know because we need higher wages just to survive here.
Not to mention the 2 years we spend in NS, the scholarships given to foreigners while our own have to scrimp and save, etc etc
Got it? -
Originally posted by The Peacemaker:
Sense of belonging. How does an individual have a sense of belonging?
it is hard to define now. probably the sense of belonging; this is where i am born, this is where i belong to afterall?
try being sociable when you see that your own government betrays you, and when you see that prospects are dimming.
Is it a feeling? is it a thinking?
Can it be nurtured?
If it can be nurture, are we nurturing the sense of belonging to PRs? Sadly, i do not think so, if we singaporeans do not instill a sense of belonging to them? will they have a sense of belonging to Singapore?
Giving them black face, flaming them, giving them low wages and bad attitude certainly does not instill a sense of belonging.
How does a government betray you? if a govt sector offers a job to a PR instead of you, does that mean u are betrayed?
If you stand neutral, 2 choices, good and not so good, who do you choose? the good one right?
on the sideline, if singapore were to introduce bumiputra, which malaysia has it, it would really make us lazy, like the malay malaysians. -
You were mentioning about PRs leaving Singapore to work in USA.Originally posted by sourketchup:I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about or alluding to or trying to explain.
Anyway here goes,
foreigner comes here, can take low wages and work long hours. Is he/she a natural workaholic? Perhaps, but the vast majority can take the low wages because they never intend to stay here.
Are Singaporeans able to work for low wages? We can try. But we will never really know because we need higher wages just to survive here.
Not to mention the 2 years we spend in NS, the scholarships given to foreigners while our own have to scrimp and save, etc etc
Got it?
I was suggusting that factors that explain what made an individual leave the country.
Now, you are saying that we Singaporeans cannot take low wages because our living standards are too high.
You are saying that it would be hard for us, REAL singaporeans to take meagre salary.
So if u have low salary, scrimp and save in Singapore, what would you do?
1)Leave a country?
2)Sing the national anthem and upgrade urself?
I say part2, sing the nation anthem and upgrade urself. Because u are a REAL singaporean.
Because u love your country, your environment, your colleagues.
unlike PRs, u dun love them, u dun want them, u dun welcome them.
What the point in staying in Singapore if we do not welcome them?
That why the leave the country.
In other words, they stay u dun like, they leave u also dun like.
What do u want from them actually? -
Originally posted by pinkish purple papayas:
In the first place, Singapore got enough talents and we should put in more money to produce more local talents, talents like me. Not just giving money to those foreigners who dun have a sense of belonging to this nation. Our government got their priorities mixed up.
Sense of belonging. How does an individual have a sense of belonging?
Is it a feeling? is it a thinking?
Can it be nurtured?
If it can be nurture, are we nurturing the sense of belonging to PRs? Sadly, i do not think so, if we singaporeans do not instill a sense of belonging to them? will they have a sense of belonging to Singapore?
Giving them black face, flaming them, giving them low wages and bad attitude certainly does not instill a sense of belonging.
How does a government betray you? if a govt sector offers a job to a PR instead of you, does that mean u are betrayed?
If you stand neutral, 2 choices, good and not so good, who do you choose? the good one right?
on the sideline, if singapore were to introduce bumiputra, which malaysia has it, it would really make us lazy, like the malay malaysians.[/b]
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Originally posted by pinkish purple papayas:
To summarize my above posts, I would let them in, even though they don't assimilate well. Grudgingly, because of all the freebies some of them are getting.
You were mentioning about PRs leaving Singapore to work in USA.
I was suggusting that factors that explain what made an individual leave the country.
Now, you are saying that we Singaporeans cannot take low wages because our living standards are too high.
You are saying that it would be hard for us, REAL singaporeans to take meagre salary.
So if u have low salary, scrimp and save in Singapore, what would you do?
1)Leave a country?
2)Sing the national anthem and upgrade urself?
I say part2, sing the nation anthem and upgrade urself. Because u are a REAL singaporean.
Because u love your country, your environment, your colleagues.
[b]unlike PRs, u dun love them, u dun want them, u dun welcome them.
What the point in staying in Singapore if we do not welcome them?[/b]
But the government has to take active steps in cutting our costs of living to make us competitive compared to them. As for upgrading ourselves, there will reach a stage when Singaporeans and foreigners would be at the same level. As a matter of fact, it is starting to happen now. So instead of just letting them into Singapore, how about tackling the more important issue of reducing the costs of living in Singapore?
And as for your strange final (rhetorical) question, I cannot even try to reply. So if there is no point in staying in Singapore if I don't welcome them, does it mean that conversely, there is meaning in staying on just because we do welcome them?
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Have Singapore not put in enuff money to groom talents?Originally posted by NUS_Superst@r:In the first place, Singapore got enough talents and we should put in more money to produce more local talents, talents like me. Not just giving money to those foreigners who dun have a sense of belonging to this nation. Our government got their priorities mixed up.
- We have special schools
- We have world class education system
- We have sports schools
- the govt promotes sports and recreation
- singaporeans are partiparting in world tournaments
- etc etc
The gym is there for us, the library is there for us, the running track is there for us, the field is there for us, the school is there for us.
If the govt invest millions on the "talent" like you, u are probably not that talented after all.
U said giving money to foreigners, can u explain an example which singapore gives money in order to instill sense of belonging? -
Well we have to base on human factors, an individual has to feel welcome then he/she would continue to stay on. Am i right about that?Originally posted by sourketchup:To summarize my above posts, I would let them in, even though they don't assimilate well. Grudgingly, because of all the freebies some of them are getting.
But the government has to take active steps in cutting our costs of living to make us competitive compared to them. As for upgrading ourselves, there will reach a stage when Singaporeans and foreigners would be at the same level. As a matter of fact, it is starting to happen now. So instead of just letting them into Singapore, how about tackling the more important issue of reducing the costs of living in Singapore?
And as for your strange final (rhetorical) question, I cannot even try to reply. So if there is no point in staying in Singapore if I don't welcome them, does it mean that conversely, there is meaning in staying on just because we do welcome them?
Why cant we view them as partners hand in hand working for a better society?
Why must we view them as competitors?
The world is huge, 5,000,000,000 people. Singapore has 3,000,000.
We compete, we shun, we isolate, we lose.
We welcome, we cooperate, we integrate, we win
Its just a simple globalization theory. Many countries that closed their doors to the outside world ultimate fail.
And i am going to have my dinner now. -
if i were a loser, i still win u. u r lousy than a loser...
go n find a good job first, i am not sure whether u could find a job, maybe when u r out of school u will fight with the foreign worker to work in the hawker center, for example, cleaner...
i dun even want to condmn u, u r just a young student, did not understand what really happen out of the school...
once u grow up, i hope u will understand, if not, u r really becoming a local trash...Originally posted by The Peacemaker:pot calling the kettle black.
who knows, you are just another loser back at China, and a pathetic one, to the extend that you have to come to Singapore and play the parasite, it is seen from what you just typed. can't face the hardship at home? what a weakling.
and of course i can't become a ft in any of those places you mentioned. not that i even considered making my mark there, and i won't consider. i am born in singapore; i am a singaporean, my blood boils at the thought that empty vessels like you who come from china throw what is left of your weight in a territory that does not belong to you. wait a sec, i didn't mention myself aspiring to be a foreign trash overseas did i?
condemn me all you like, i am still a student, and from all the crap you've spouted so far, i gather i know what is the meaning of being capable and competitive better than you. shame on you, you disgrace the PRCs.
ps: a loser from singapore wouldn't have come up with such an argument against you, which i judge, for trash of your standard, is quite intellectual already. -
Those 3 points you raised seemed pointing more towards a possible threat to our national security than identity.Originally posted by NUS_Superst@r:PM Lee said we will have to allow more foreigners to become Singapore citizens. I don't think that is a good idea although it will solve the problems of an aging population and ensure that the population remains vibrant and productive. However, allowing foreigners into our country is equivalent to allowing strangers into our house.
Firstly, our local culture will clash with their foreign culture.
Secondly, even when they have their Singapore citizenship, we are still able to differentiate them from the locals so majority will still view them as foreigners. Having foreigners fighting over the rice bowl with the locals, the social cohesiveness will be weaken.
Thirdly, the locals will feel threaten by the presence of foreigners because most of them are willing to accept low pays, have better performances or protray themselves as foreign talents.
Conclusion, number of foreigners entering our countries must be restricted.
National identity is forged by the citizens, whether by birth or naturalization, of a nation. Foreigners do not have any role in it.
And what do you think is the Singapore national identity?
Something so good that we need to protect it from evolving?
Or something not so positive, like kiasu?
I think it is the worker ant's mentality - obediently and loyally carrying out orders and not questioning for questioning means subverting the control of the state. And if the naturalized citizens can help us evolve from that I think it is a good thing! -
Importing foreigners to top up our aging population is stupid.
These foreigners who become citizens will SHORTLY become aged people wouldn't they? ANd do you foolishly think, their children will want to stay on here after realizing what a stiffling country we are???
Especially when this is a country wherein you as a local CANNOT speak up without being arrested in public, while PDMMs can loudly protest outside embassy without dire consequences??? -
Giving them money in terms of scholarships and bonds for good paying jobs which most of them are more than happy to accept the bond. Last time, granting them citizenship to preventing them from returning to their countries and hope that they can stay here forever. Too bad most of their hearts lie not here.Originally posted by pinkish purple papayas:can u explain an example which singapore gives money in order to instill sense of belonging? -
Originally posted by pinkish purple papayas:
Fine sentiments you put out there, but hard reality states that we are facing a fight for our very livelihoods by indiscriminately letting foreigners come in. How do we compete on wages when we need higher wages simply to survive?
Well we have to base on human factors, an individual has to feel welcome then he/she would continue to stay on. Am i right about that?
Why cant we view them as partners hand in hand working for a better society?
Why must we view them as competitors?
The world is huge, 5,000,000,000 people. Singapore has 3,000,000.
[b]We compete, we shun, we isolate, we lose.
We welcome, we cooperate, we integrate, we win
Its just a simple globalization theory. Many countries that closed their doors to the outside world ultimate fail.
And i am going to have my dinner now.[/b]
Do come up with a practical, hard-headed answer to that, and I will join you in holding hands with the whole world and singing songs of unity and love.
Enjoy your dinner. -
How many students from China actually can get scholarship here?Originally posted by NUS_Superst@r:Giving them money in terms of scholarships and bonds for good paying jobs which most of them are more than happy to accept the bond. Last time, granting them citizenship to preventing them from returning to their countries and hope that they can stay here forever. Too bad most of their hearts lie not here. -
Just a small percentage of China's population. But becoz China has a huge population and Singapore has a relatively small population compared to its population, the number of students can be quite significant. You are always welcome to NUS. I am just getting sick of surrounded by them everyday.Originally posted by will4:How many students from China actually can get scholarship here?
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U seemed to be biased against them, did they offend u in the first place?Originally posted by NUS_Superst@r:Just a small percentage of China's population. But becoz China has a huge population and Singapore has a relatively small population compared to its population, the number of students can be quite significant. You are always welcome to NUS. I am just getting sick of surrounded by them everyday. -
You just need to come study here, then u will know what i mean?Originally posted by will4:U seemed to be biased against them, did they offend u in the first place? -
It seemed there is a hidden conflict between local Chinese n Chinese national.Originally posted by NUS_Superst@r:You just need to come study here, then u will know what i mean?
Also the same thing happened in HK between Chinese immigrant n HK Chinese.