Nation serving
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To maintain a defence force of only 50,000 is definitely not enough... Our 4 million population 1% is 40,000 hmmm that's too little... We need aleast 150,000 Soldiers. If these people are joining the army. The economy will definitely suffer. But Singapore can definitely set up foreign legions like the FFL. It could ease the effects of our NS load. But our security should never be left alone to others, than our very own citizen. After we need the loyalty of all the people here to make this island of nothing work!
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Not too sure what's your "overwhelming factors".Originally posted by olala:No it is not
feeling a waste of time to serve is juz one factor
theres a whole lot of overwhelming factors which juz dosent permit me to serve a nation like this
And com on..dun tell me i gotta serve military for this country jzu bcuz i was born on this soil
If so,the whole of Lebanese wuld have taken arms already
But if you have not been through NS, then it would be very interesting to see what's your view again during and after NS. NS is afterall a very important form of NE that aim to make you feel more loyal to your country.
There might be people who think that its a joke to make pple more loyal to the nation by putting them through 2 years of hardship, but actually loyalty to nation is hardly fostered by just giving perks. People in Russia during WWII fought with overwhelming loyalty even though the state treated them like crap. Its got to do with the white propaganda they put them through. -
The overwhelming factors are what the govertment are not doing enuff to ease the burden of the ppl.Originally posted by wisefool83:Not too sure what's your "overwhelming factors".
But if you have not been through NS, then it would be very interesting to see what's your view again during and after NS. NS is afterall a very important form of NE that aim to make you feel more loyal to your country.
There might be people who think that its a joke to make pple more loyal to the nation by putting them through 2 years of hardship, but actually loyalty to nation is hardly fostered by just giving perks. People in Russia during WWII fought with overwhelming loyalty even though the state treated them like crap. Its got to do with the white propaganda they put them through.
I dun feel loyal to the nation on the soil which i'm born but more likely,how a country is run and weather it deserve the citizen to lay down their live for!
They might have been put throught the whtie propaganda but I've eyes to see through the political games -
would u volunteer for service? i doubt so... otherwise u wont kpkb hereOriginally posted by olala:i do agree that some are cowards running from one naation to another
But why cant the govt let us voluntarily serve on our own than pull the males in?
even those who are untrained,when face to protect their love ones will take up the guns rite
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weather i will or not its a different issueOriginally posted by Axelheat755:would u volunteer for service? i doubt so... otherwise u wont kpkb here
doing away with the 2yrs ns period in respect of the ppl decesion and bcuz of their abilities to hire full time is the right thing -
National Service doesn't take all that much out of the economy. True our workforce is 40,000 people smaller but honestly the pros more than make up for the cons.
The SAF has a standing force of around 20,000. If you include NSFs and NSmen, the figure is very much larger. Without NS, Singapore's forces would be no comparison to the 100,000 that our nearest neighbour fields. The added security more than makes up for the pain of going through NS. Never make the mistake of thinking that our neighbours are completely friendly towards us or that the confidence with which we conduct our dealings with them can be maintained without a credible armed force.
We cannot add forces to the SAF by attempting to have a larger standing army. This is simply due to the fact that it costs very much more to pay an army of regulars as compared to NSFs and NSmen.
The strength of the SAF lies in the airforce and navy, two wings that have much lower representation from NSFs than the army. Yet this does not mean that we can neglect to develop our ground forces. In the event of a war, they will be needed to take and hold territory to give our commanders strategic depth to work with.
As a Singaporean male who has to give up 2 years of his life like everyone else, I can safely say that I feel more confident in Singapore for having NS. -
Oh I also neglected to point out that while many people feel disinclined towards being loyal to Singapore, that is no argument at all. The only honourable way out if you hold such views is to emigrate and to do it fast. Singapore isn't perfect, but it's a damn sight better than the VAST majority of countries. I daresay only the advanced and enlightened northern European states possibly have it better. That is debatable of course.
Well then if any of us refuses to contribute to our nation then we must surely have the self respect to leave and not depend on the security bought by the toil of others. I know Malaysians and many of them wish very much to leave their country to come to Singapore (Chinese of course, they wish to leave the discrimination behind), NS notwithstanding. We've alot going for us in Singapore, just make the best of your NS. -
They ground which the old ns men envision for is no longer here...Originally posted by sngyze:Oh I also neglected to point out that while many people feel disinclined towards being loyal to Singapore, that is no argument at all. The only honourable way out if you hold such views is to emigrate and to do it fast. Singapore isn't perfect, but it's a damn sight better than the VAST majority of countries. I daresay only the advanced and enlightened northern European states possibly have it better. That is debatable of course.
Well then if any of us refuses to contribute to our nation then we must surely have the self respect to leave and not depend on the security bought by the toil of others. I know Malaysians and many of them wish very much to leave their country to come to Singapore (Chinese of course, they wish to leave the discrimination behind), NS notwithstanding. We've alot going for us in Singapore, just make the best of your NS.
our parents join the NS bcuz there was a promise made by the govt to improve the lifes of all,making us feel one with the nation...
sadly,now it isnt the case..
That promise which the govt once held on to is slipping
This ground have defilled with the broken promises
even when the times come when i've to serve,it'll only be an obligation and not the natural sense of loyalty
This land which once hold purpose and meaning for a better singapore is gone...
no longer are many who enlist NS with a sense of loyalty..it has become a Fear to do so. -
I do believe that you didn't bother reading my posts carefully. In any case I feel sorrow that Singaporeans should so easily argue for the removal of NS without first thinking through all the associated problems clearly. An ad hominem this may be, but I reckon you let your desires get in the way of clear thinking.
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With the govt placing mroe care on the FT,where shld our loyalty stem from?Originally posted by sngyze:I do believe that you didn't bother reading my posts carefully. In any case I feel sorrow that Singaporeans should so easily argue for the removal of NS without first thinking through all the associated problems clearly. An ad hominem this may be, but I reckon you let your desires get in the way of clear thinking.
no one seems to wanna reply this
and if we fight?do we fight for/the struggling of our countrymen competting FT?
unless the govt is able to bring able reforms and social development
the ppl will continue feeling out of palce and migrations speaks for themselve -
Why do you think the govt need to bring in the FT? Its because we need these people for the long run in order to keep the economy going. The 2 years of NS, in terms of manpower hours are not going to affect our economy in the long run and will certainly not be enough to cover the ones contributed by the FT. Singapore like most modern cities are facing an aging population and the only exception of these modern cities is the US which just keeps bringing in new FTs and immigrants to replenish their blood.Originally posted by 0lala:With the govt placing mroe care on the FT,where shld our loyalty stem from?
no one seems to wanna reply this
and if we fight?do we fight for/the struggling of our countrymen competting FT?
unless the govt is able to bring able reforms and social development
the ppl will continue feeling out of palce and migrations speaks for themselve
The problem that the US is now facing however, is that their society is very segmentated where the rich and the poor doesn't interact. The US military in specific, is becoming a poor man's havan because generally, only poor people are willing to endure the hardships within the military because of the pay. Having a citizen soldier model such as Singapore's NS will help reduce the problem of isolating the military from the rest of the society. In Singapore, it doesn't matter if you live in Holland Ville or some 1 rm flat in Potong Pasir, as long as the person has been tru NS, he will have some knowledge and attachment for the military. At times, these people may be complaining about how F up the military is or whatever, but the thing is that they've been tru it together and a much better bond is fostered among these pple than most US citizens.
There are very often no "good" political decisions and we will always be forced by circumstance to take the lesser evil. Bringing in the FTs and having NS are such lesser evils.
When you say that you don't feel loyal to the nation because the govt doesn't do good things for you anymore, does it ever occur to you that the govt are not that separated from you? The govt is elected among the pple, there is not you and me but only we. If you wishes things to be better for Singapore, then you must fight and work for it, not hoping to have your kinsmen do it for you. The government's job is to facilitate an environment that allows us all to have a chance to fight for better lives, and on top of which would be our education.
If there is one thing that I believe that the government had let you down, it is that the government and the rest of us as a society had not develop your ethos in a way to contribute to the society. If you think that I am selfish in asking you to contribute to the society, please also consider that you, in asking the government to take care of you, is asking the entire society of 4 million people to contribute to your personal desire.