I do not understand why we need more foreign talent
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hello,
dun be so angry mah.
firstly, i was born in china (which u hated...dun forget, if i am not wrong, ur root is there, i felt very very uncomfortable u forgot ur root). i got the education in SG(collegue, master and ph.d) and got the citizenship a few years ago.
secondly, i felt very sorry u have been in 50 plus but behaved like a kid, very childish.
lastly, all the best to u, one of SG millionare.
regards,
play_n_playOriginally posted by foomwee88:Based on the way u expressed yrself make me thk u r not sporean!!!u r a foreigner!!! May i know which unit u r from in Spore ???
Did i blame? u r a little boy in my eye.my son is oreli a Doc!!
I m worrying of my next gen not u!!!
So wat! they r b $ ppls but i hve million$, we can go anywhere as We wish but not U!!!wishing all the best in this shti country!!!
Did I say u and the FTs are not good???wat we dont want are those flies who will kill S"pore ,understand???
Mind u ! we will not let u foreigners taking over our nation in time of crisis! in order 2 protect our next gen!! we may k all of u here??? -
I don't think our education system was designed to 'cultivate a society of well educated people'. Our streaming system, while flawed, simply helped out this misconception. I certainly don't applaud our segregation mentality: that students who ace their exams are meant to dress up in a suit and work in an office while those who screwed up their early years carry the garbage out of the dumpsters.Originally posted by ShutterBug:But if you take a few large steps backwards, and you take a long look at the whole picture, wouldn't you wonder about the following:
>> why cultivate a society of well educated people who aren't likely to take up these jobs? Besides, who in the right mind and a decent qualification would want to be a rubbish collector after almost a lifetime of studies and the money spent on education? But being a the OWNER of a garbage collection company is a different thing altogether.
Evidently, it's an unglamourous job: getting your hands dirty and reeking of filth. Which like-minded Singaporean would wanna slob a living in this manner?
But if it pays well.....who cares? You've struck a chord by suggesting that managing trash collection pays dividends. Now it's a question of sharing the profits with your garbage collectors.
I really believe that if you pay garbage collectors 1K a month, give them additional responsibilities such as catagorizing the garbage (eg: recycle products vs biodegradable) and rename their vocation into something less demeaning, our locals may just hop on the bandwagon...
But i'm just an idealist.
Competition has stressed out the market. Everyone is talking about cost-cutting measures. It's always easier to cut costs then venture out and make MORE MONEY to manage your overheads.Originally posted by ShutterBug:>> Escalating costs of living is the main factor that people aren't taking up certain jobs, but now, with all the FTs in abundance, even high level position salaries are devalued by FTs - who the hell can support a family much less have a baby if one is expected to outperform and take a lower paycheck as FTs or even lower?
This is something i never understood. But it's the standard practice in every company, be it GLCs or Private enterprises. It's generally recognized (though foolishly exaggerated) that locals are fussy, high-maintenance and unwilling to step out of their comfort zones. FTs are way easier to handle, ask for less and almost always give more.
So why not? Employers always lament that locals have only themselves to blame by refusing to accept pay cuts and jumping ship at the earliest convenience when 'greener pastures' come beckoning.
If our people break out of this stereotype, they may yet make a difference. Till then, i simply see FTs as the competition. And it is a competition i have to beat to stay relevant.
Maybe this is a question meant for the aunties. Again it's a paradox. By mass importing maids and making it an industry onto itself, aunties have the mistaken impression that by taking on cleaning jobs in direct competition to maids, it 'degrades' them to the same level of the 'maids'. And that itself is demeaning and unglamourous.Originally posted by ShutterBug:>> Maids are imported, why not let local aunties take the role? No levies to collect maybe?
Who would have seen these turn of events 20 years ago? Back then, for a nominal fee, these aunties would work the day shift cleaning the house, ironing the clothes and buying food for the kids when the parents were not in.
While never willing to admit it, many companies are still sex and age discriminatory. Women who are likely to get pregnant and employees above the age of say 50 tend to be 'high-maintenance', and companies measure their productivity by the man-hours put in. The yard stick comes when critical periods are filled with maternity leave or long-term illnesses.Originally posted by ShutterBug:>> Why do they say Medical and Health Care is affordable when most employers still shun old workers because of the need to provide medical benefits, and potential loss of man-hours due to health.
We shouldn't kid ourselves that the gov is taking care of our interests.. if so, most of the above scenarios would have been different.
I don't think health costs and medical benefits come into the picture just yet. It's just a matter of the company's driven culture to demand the best out of each employee that forces their hand in such circumstances. -
While i second any such move, do you think people will agree? We locals have become too dependent on maids that it has already become part of our everyday lives. We could have stopped this industry if we wanted to.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Scrap the foreign maid sector.
Adopt the American model of bring your child to work and hire more au-pairs who can take care of kids part time, if you badly need help with your kids.
Parents abroad can bloody do it, I don't see why these mothers today bitch and whine like some helpless lady.
If there is no demand, there will not be a supply. -
Our govt was famous for making the tough decisions, what has become of that REAL vision and leadership??Originally posted by BillyBong:While i second any such move, do you think people will agree? We locals have become too dependent on maids that it has already become part of our everyday lives. We could have stopped this industry if we wanted to.
If there is no demand, there will not be a supply.
Kena outsourced also?
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quote:
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Originally posted by billybong:
I don't think our education system was designed to 'cultivate a society of well educated people'. Our streaming system, while flawed, simply helped out this misconception. I certainly don't applaud our segregation mentality: that students who ace their exams are meant to dress up in a suit and work in an office while those who screwed up their early years carry the garbage out of the dumpsters.
Evidently, it's an unglamourous job: getting your hands dirty and reeking of filth. Which like-minded Singaporean would wanna slob a living in this manner?
But if it pays well.....who cares? You've struck a chord by suggesting that managing trash collection pays dividends. Now it's a question of sharing the profits with your garbage collectors.
I really believe that if you pay garbage collectors 1K a month, give them additional responsibilities such as catagorizing the garbage (eg: recycle products vs biodegradable) and rename their vocation into something less demeaning, our locals may just hop on the bandwagon...
But i'm just an idealist.
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Basically what I'm saying here is that people are largely brought up with rather high expectations with regards to OCCUPATION. Meaning that people have a decent education would not likely give a thought to menial jobs, such as rubbish collecting. In other words, given equal opportunities, I think almost all would rather be an employer rather than an employee. Myself, as an example.
While true back then that local Chinese tend to view such jobs as lowly, I believe the times have change their mindset quite substantially. However, time was not able to affect change of any degree towards rising living costs hence people are generally still UNABLE (not UNWILLING) to take a lower salaried job. (what's the point of slogging all day all week and still have your electricity and water supply cut off?)
It isn't so much status and or name of the position that irks locals, it's the amount paid for the effort. Society in every country are NEVER comprised totally of Doctors, Scientists & Engineers. Hence there will always be the averagely ambitioned fraction of society who just simply wants to GET BY.
So fancy cosmetic titles for jobs catches not their interest, but rather size of salary to/that commensurates with today's living costs.
quote:
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Originally posted by billybong:
Competition has stressed out the market. Everyone is talking about cost-cutting measures. It's always easier to cut costs then venture out and make MORE MONEY to manage your overheads.
This is something i never understood. But it's the standard practice in every company, be it GLCs or Private enterprises. It's generally recognized (though foolishly exaggerated) that locals are fussy, high-maintenance and unwilling to step out of their comfort zones. FTs are way easier to handle, ask for less and almost always give more.
So why not? Employers always lament that locals have only themselves to blame by refusing to accept pay cuts and jumping ship at the earliest convenience when 'greener pastures' come beckoning.
If our people break out of this stereotype, they may yet make a difference. Till then, i simply see FTs as the competition. And it is a competition i have to beat to stay relevant.
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Agreeably, competition has done something to the market, but why do you think both employee and employers are biatching about costs and hankering for cheaper this and cheaper that??
FTs I admit are good for our economy. But right now, not all from China coming and already here, are "skilled". A large proportion of them are unskilled and are contributing to society's vices and crime. This is due to our government's throw-our-door-wide-open-to-all-from-anywhere policy. As you already know, these "FTs" from PRC are making a mockery of our immigration system by doing all sorts of things just to secure the PR status.
You can't blame locals for "jumping ship when greener pastures beckons", because this is not a welfare state and everyone must take care of his/her own retirement years (if any/able to at all). Who will want to waste time and effort doing some job which in the end, lands them in some old age home? Don't tell me their children will be there for them - having children doesn't mean they will take care of aged parents. Gov has OVERPRICED living costs, hence the people need also to PRICE themselves accordingly. As much as businesses are NOT CHARITIES, people also needs to SURVIVE.
Governments hopes to "top up" population with FOREIGNERS (FTs), but it looks to me, they're topping up population with future aged PR holders and New Citizens!!!
quote:
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Originally posted by billybong:
Maybe this is a question meant for the aunties. Again it's a paradox. By mass importing maids and making it an industry onto itself, aunties have the mistaken impression that by taking on cleaning jobs in direct competition to maids, it 'degrades' them to the same level of the 'maids'. And that itself is demeaning and unglamourous.
Who would have seen these turn of events 20 years ago? Back then, for a nominal fee, these aunties would work the day shift cleaning the house, ironing the clothes and buying food for the kids when the parents were not in.
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Glamour no longer mattered. As said, people here are now not as mindful of what they do, and I believe many will gladly take up any cleaning or maid jobs if opportunities arises; many jobless middle aged and able bodied ladies/men have children to support and see through school and higher education - if ordinary low-skilled or unskilled jobs are snatched away by unskilled "FTs", HOW do local people dare consider having babies?? Remember, I'm meaning ordinarily ambitioned folks, not rocket scientists wannabes.
quote:
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Originally posted by billybong:
While never willing to admit it, many companies are still sex and age discriminatory. Women who are likely to get pregnant and employees above the age of say 50 tend to be 'high-maintenance', and companies measure their productivity by the man-hours put in. The yard stick comes when critical periods are filled with maternity leave or long-term illnesses.
I don't think health costs and medical benefits come into the picture just yet. It's just a matter of the company's driven culture to demand the best out of each employee that forces their hand in such circumstances.
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Discrimination is RAMPANT. And NO ONE (employers) will ever admit it so long as gov does not bother to PROACTIVELY crack down on discrimination towards employees and or would-be employees.
Who do you think is responsible for causing young pregnant women to lose their jobs? For want or more babies, gov implements policies with little consideration of the kind of repercusions it will cause, just like throwing our doors wide open to all sorts of FTs.
Healthcare costs DOES matter. Medical Benefits costs a lot in a business that employs older people. I have business friends who will only hire older locals if they agree to not being given ANY medical benefits - eg., if he or she has diabtetes, his/her monthly medical costs for treating the condition will not be subsidized. Such arrangents are blossoming everywhere here like toadstools in a rotten wood! -
maybe we might have a PRC or india minister in the future.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Our govt was famous for making the tough decisions, what has become of that REAL vision and leadership??
Kena outsourced also? -
It's easy for them to make tough decisions - because we are the ones who will bear with their bright ideas.Originally posted by dragg:maybe we might have a PRC or india minister in the future. -
I like to quote a posting by Cosmoking as follows:
quote:
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Originally posted by CosmoKing:
the abbreviated FT is so often used to mean 'foreign talent' but there must be lots of 'foreign trash' floating around. Don't know if these mish mash of different customs, behaviour, cultural nuances will lead to sinkapore...I mean a melting pot that really sink. then, those sorry but patriotic stayers will be the real losers while the quitters will be laughing out of their seats. remember, its just a small myopic pot, and it will be the biggest bluff if one said they could brew more jobs for locals e.g. you could frame up your beautiful certificates as these FT will be willing to do your work for half your salary. the difference is, they send money home to buy twice or three times in their big country what you could afford here in a tiny red dot, but you being here stuffed in a pigeon hole have to figure out what little or no savings, let alone retirement, after having paid all the bills, taxes, and with the rapid high costs of living and onslaughts of basic transports and utilities hike. and so, if FT could mean Foreigh talent or foreign trash, the once quitters are the ones who should be emulated. e.g. they had the foresight to jump ship before sinkapore sinks, and stayers just lament, complaint under the all 'inclusiveness' of oppressions and greater sufferings. saying that the income gap is widening is too late now, as social discontent rears it ulgy head in a millions of way and maybe 10 years from now, it may not be a good, safe, and clean city to live anymore. experts have predicted the ruling party will face a tougher fight in each coming elections, well let them rest on their laurels as long as it lasts. nothing goes on forever. -
I can understand and AGREE, that Foreign Talents (real talents) are good for Singapore.
But currently, as I have and a lot of other have said, there is no measures in place to filter out the unskilled, non-talented low-lifes who come here and create pockets of vice and criminal activities.
They're even kililing each other like dogs eating dogs!
We have so many indians from India here, so many Thais from Thailand here, how come they are not as much of a pain in the a.ss as these PRCs?? -
Originally posted by play_n_play:
hello,
dun be so angry mah.
firstly, i was born in china (which u hated...dun forget, if i am not wrong, ur root is there, i felt very very uncomfortable u forgot ur root). i got the education in SG(collegue, master and ph.d) and got the citizenship a few years ago.
secondly, i felt very sorry u have been in 50 plus but behaved like a kid, very childish.
lastly, all the best to u, one of SG millionare.
regards,
play_n_play
Pls dont use this root issue 2 get entry into our country,u r welcomed if u can really contribute to our country otherwise get lost!!!
I m childish and stupid as well but We exclude U hve made our day 2 be a developed country But PRC is still developing in where u r needed but u choose to be a quitter,shame on U!!!
May I post a question to U? will u stay in S'pore when other country attack us?
I think yr answer is No, u just run away loh this stupid S'pore gives me opportunity to make $ only, loyalty does not worth a cent la chidish Spore!!! -
hello,Originally posted by foomwee88:
Pls dont use this root issue 2 get entry into our country,u r welcomed if u can really contribute to our country otherwise get lost!!!
I m childish and stupid as well but We exclude U hve made our day 2 be a developed country But PRC is still developing in where u r needed but u choose to be a quitter,shame on U!!!
May I post a question to U? will u stay in S'pore when other country attack us?
I think yr answer is No, u just run away loh this stupid S'pore gives me opportunity to make $ only, loyalty does not worth a cent la chidish Spore!!!
dun be so angry mah.
firstly, i was born in china (which u hated...dun forget, if i am not wrong, ur root is there, i felt very very uncomfortable u forgot ur root). i got the education in SG(collegue, master and ph.d) and got the citizenship a few years ago.
secondly, i felt very sorry u have been in 50 plus but behaved like a kid, very childish.
lastly, all the best to u, one of SG millionare.
regards,
play_n_play
yea and in the end ur some china dog whose soil are defilled with germs,drought and social issue.
agree if ur so capable try solving the problems in ur country first
haha..since ur from china,ur juz one hek of germs too -
if they are willing to do the same work for less money, then they deserve the job what.
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how can u say that?Originally posted by the.owl:if they are willing to do the same work for less money, then they deserve the job what.
putting aside some for CPF,housing,utilities...
we can afford to take pay which are way too low
if we are gonna do that,the govertment gotta lower the cost of burden -
hello,
why i came to SG? i was invited by SG government, MOE -- misitry of education.
why i got the citizenship? i was invited by SG government, ICA -- immigration & checkpoints authority.
china is a developing country but it has enough talents. you could see some of these talents are in US, Europe even SG.
again i felt very very upset you kept barking the country where your ancestor came from.
btw, without the LKY's leadship, can SG become a developed country? it is not a free gift.
regards,
play_n_playOriginally posted by olala:hello,
dun be so angry mah.
firstly, i was born in china (which u hated...dun forget, if i am not wrong, ur root is there, i felt very very uncomfortable u forgot ur root). i got the education in SG(collegue, master and ph.d) and got the citizenship a few years ago.
secondly, i felt very sorry u have been in 50 plus but behaved like a kid, very childish.
lastly, all the best to u, one of SG millionare.
regards,
play_n_play
yea and in the end ur some china dog whose soil are defilled with germs,drought and social issue.
agree if ur so capable try solving the problems in ur country first
haha..since ur from china,ur juz one hek of germs too -
Idiot dun put my name there trying to make ppl think i type those words when u the one typed itOriginally posted by play_n_play:hello,
why i came to SG? i was invited by SG government, MOE -- misitry of education.
why i got the citizenship? i was invited by SG government, ICA -- immigration & checkpoints authority.
china is a developing country but it has enough talents. you could see some of these talents are in US, Europe even SG.
again i felt very very upset you kept barking the country where your ancestor came from.
btw, without the LKY's leadship, can SG become a developed country? it is not a free gift.
regards,
play_n_play
they can back traced to the above topic
stop editing my words
i admit LKY helped in the earlier development of singaproe in teh olden days
however,thigns ahve changed and obviously the govtment are makign blunders
Dun assume a good start ensure a smooth journey
They might be able to bring about polictical reform in the past but if they are unable to solve the issue which most signaproean are facing now,then one wuld have to gladly step down
All leaders makes mistake
the ruling party is no exception
they are not gods
throughout history leaders make mistakes and hes not excluded -
hello,
i agreed with ur comments in some sense.
"i admit LKY helped in the earlier development of singaproe in teh olden days
however,thigns ahve changed and obviously the govtment are makign blunders
Dun assume a good start ensure a smooth journey
They might be able to bring about polictical reform in the past but if they are unable to solve the issue which most signaproean are facing now,then one wuld have to gladly step down
All leaders makes mistake
the ruling party is no exception
they are not gods"
btw, u said china dog, china dog, if your ancestor was from china as well, then u r the grand grand grand... kid of the dog.
regards,
MichaelOriginally posted by olala:Idiot dun put my name there trying to make ppl think i type those words when u the one typed it
they can back traced to the above topic
stop editing my words
i admit LKY helped in the earlier development of singaproe in teh olden days
however,thigns ahve changed and obviously the govtment are makign blunders
Dun assume a good start ensure a smooth journey
They might be able to bring about polictical reform in the past but if they are unable to solve the issue which most signaproean are facing now,then one wuld have to gladly step down
All leaders makes mistake
the ruling party is no exception
they are not gods
throughout history leaders make mistakes and hes not excluded -
Originally posted by play_n_play:hello,
i agreed with ur comments in some sense.
"i admit LKY helped in the earlier development of singaproe in teh olden days
however,thigns ahve changed and obviously the govtment are makign blunders
Dun assume a good start ensure a smooth journey
They might be able to bring about polictical reform in the past but if they are unable to solve the issue which most signaproean are facing now,then one wuld have to gladly step down
All leaders makes mistake
the ruling party is no exception
they are not gods"
btw, u said china dog, china dog, if your ancestor was from china as well, then u r the grand grand grand... kid of the dog.
regards,
Michael aiyoo, my ah ma frm china lah 
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hello,
if i were a quitter, then ur acestor was as well. u r the grand grand grand... kid of a quitter.
to answer ur question whether i will fight for sg when sg is attached by others. my answer is, yes. do remember, in wwII, in sg, most of the local people who fighted with japs were from china.
regards,
play_n_playOriginally posted by foomwee88:
Pls dont use this root issue 2 get entry into our country,u r welcomed if u can really contribute to our country otherwise get lost!!!
I m childish and stupid as well but We exclude U hve made our day 2 be a developed country But PRC is still developing in where u r needed but u choose to be a quitter,shame on U!!!
May I post a question to U? will u stay in S'pore when other country attack us?
I think yr answer is No, u just run away loh this stupid S'pore gives me opportunity to make $ only, loyalty does not worth a cent la chidish Spore!!! -
Another idiot who thinks what is the past is represent the futureOriginally posted by play_n_play:hello,
if i were a quitter, then ur acestor was as well. u r the grand grand grand... kid of a quitter.
to answer ur question whether i will fight for sg when sg is attached by others. my answer is, yes. do remember, in wwII, in sg, most of the local people who fighted with japs were from china.
regards,
play_n_play
ur becoming a joke -
Will u defend Spore?Originally posted by olala:Another idiot who thinks what is the past is represent the future
ur becoming a joke -
judging by the current situiation of how fellow singaporean are struggling to ease their livign cost while the govt does nth yet intensified by encouraging the influx of FT when our ppl clearly are capable....Originally posted by will4:Will u defend Spore?
i will not
This wasnt the dream of signaporeans...singaporean have all along believe in the PAP being above to ease the cost of living as they have promised back then
When that promised brokes and the govt rufused to grip on to it
whats there for the ppl to fight for?
the loyalty gone with the slipping of their promises -
Maybe u should think of the bigger n brighter picture such as the good economy in Spore for this time. U working?Originally posted by 0lala:judging by the current situiation of how fellow singaporean are struggling to ease their livign cost while the govt does nth yet intensified by encouraging the influx of FT when our ppl clearly are capable....
i will not
This wasnt the dream of signaporeans...singaporean have all along believe in the PAP being above to ease the cost of living as they have promised back then
When that promised brokes and the govt rufused to grip on to it
whats there for the ppl to fight for?
the loyalty gone with the slipping of their promises -
Why does Singapore need FT? Well, the answer is simple-- to let Americans teach the Singaporeans how to speak in the REAL American accent, not the half-baked, wanna-be accent which Media Corp and the radio stations adhere to.
Trying to sound American when one can't even get the accent correct. How pathetic... -
work b4 and am studying nowOriginally posted by will4:Maybe u should think of the bigger n brighter picture such as the good economy in Spore for this time. U working?
but everywhere i can see the woes of the people -
we are not adressing the issue at handOriginally posted by singaporesodapop:Why does Singapore need FT? Well, the answer is simple-- to let Americans teach the Singaporeans how to speak in the REAL American accent, not the half-baked, wanna-be accent which Media Corp and the radio stations adhere to.
Trying to sound American when one can't even get the accent correct. How pathetic...