I do not understand why we need more foreign talent
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Talk about bad-shape before they extend any help; example, in order to use money in your CPF you need to become INCAPACITATED. Meaning bed-ridden or in other words, very much in a vegetative state.Originally posted by de_middle:The best part of it all is, are these FT really talents in anyway. You see them taking positions like contracts executive & other normal office desk bound jobs which there are planty of s'poreans out there w/o a job & are qualified for it.
So i ask what is the criteria, it seems the government is pretty relax in this area when importing talent.
Why is the population rate going down, have they every considered how difficult is it compared to 30yrs ago to start a family. So much uncertainty, rising cost versus stagnant pay. (sometimes i seriously wonder where the obtain the statics mentioning that s'poreans are better paid now, from?)
To qualify for government subsidies & grants, gross household income shouldn't exceed $1.5K..........u must be in a real bad shape b4 they will extend that help.
I am one such example who has no intention of setting up a family here because I don't want my wife & especially my children to suffer. And its people like me who isn't contributing to re-making ourselves. Why? the above explains why
By which time, what hell dood can $300 per month from there do?
In my opinion and to be blunt; they need our money to roll in their global investments. -
thats why i'm saying ur stupid in your comparison, u got it? With that said, nothing else you mention here is worthy of me batting an eyelid. SorryOriginally posted by play_n_play:hello,
i think i just take US as an example, did not compare with sg.
while maybe u could use israel as another example. why it can become the developed country in just decades even it involved many wars fighting with ARAB?
70% of the population in israel are not born in israel. does it have the resources? NO. but it take in lots of FT from Europe, Russia, US...
regards,
play_n_play -
Eh hello, dun try to teach me that the highlighted was meant as an example. I know what that particular statement is supposed to mean. So cut the crap. You meant it as a comparison & I REITERATE AGAIN, IT IS A STUPID COMPARISON.Originally posted by play_n_play:
hello,
i really dun understand y u like to blame the china chinese...is it because they are holding china passport? let's say if they are holding US passport, or they are american born chinese and grab some of the jobs in sg, r u still blaming them?
sg is a relatively fair country to everyone. without any competition or chanllenge, the country cannot improve.
do u know y US can become NO.1 in the world just in 30-40 years? the main reason is, US gov is smart enough to bring in the FT (i agreed some are lousy) to help the enconomy of US.
u r already 50 plus. I felt a bit worried and surprised it seems you did not learn anything in ur life and just know blame n blame.
btw, the forbes 40 richest people in SG. around 1/3 to 1/2 of them were not born in SG.
lastly, just let u know. i am singaprean. i am now working in MNC and we have lots of different nationals working in the company. most of the FT are very good.
regards,
play_n_play
dun try to justify it with another country. FT in s'pore who're doing justice as a TALENT, I\i SALUTE......but what about those doing normal mundane office positions, i too work in a sector with many foreign workers & talents.
I see so many of them being given citizenships by the government & wonder where that control lies. Best off, they are not filling up areas where talent ought to be filled, they are simple admin staff performing simple duties which a SINGAPOREAN can easily do......so DO YOU GET THE POINT CHINAMAN? -
From the way you're expressing yourself, I doubt that you can even be considered a TALENT......your choice of words & sentence structure is atrocious. MOE has done injustice in inviting you over & wasted TAXPAYER'S money in hiring people of such calibre.Originally posted by play_n_play:hello,
i think i just take US as an example, did not compare with sg.
while maybe u could use israel as another example. why it can become the developed country in just decades even it involved many wars fighting with ARAB?
70% of the population in israel are not born in israel. does it have the resources? NO. but it take in lots of FT from Europe, Russia, US...
regards,
play_n_play
So do us all a bloody favour stop defending your pathetic self & your kind here. -
They are just here for our currency.
There are some talents but largely, I see many of them taking up jobs many locals could have had. It's just sad.
And our gov just close one eye (or both) because they're earning future votes from these so called FTs. -
Some of them will go back to their countries n some used here as a stepping stone to move to other countries.Originally posted by ShutterBug:They are just here for our currency.
There are some talents but largely, I see many of them taking up jobs many locals could have had. It's just sad.
And our gov just close one eye (or both) because they're earning future votes from these so called FTs. -
How long these foreigners get the Spore citizenship?Originally posted by de_middle:Eh hello, dun try to teach me that the highlighted was meant as an example. I know what that particular statement is supposed to mean. So cut the crap. You meant it as a comparison & I REITERATE AGAIN, IT IS A STUPID COMPARISON.
dun try to justify it with another country. FT in s'pore who're doing justice as a TALENT, I\i SALUTE......but what about those doing normal mundane office positions, i too work in a sector with many foreign workers & talents.
I see so many of them being given citizenships by the government & wonder where that control lies. Best off, they are not filling up areas where talent ought to be filled, they are simple admin staff performing simple duties which a SINGAPOREAN can easily do......so DO YOU GET THE POINT CHINAMAN? -
I tell you, it's easier to earn votes from ordinary foreign workers than the real Foreign Talents - because they are capable to make it anywhere else, and can SEE things clearer.
Not to mention the many choices they have globally.
Yes indeed - topping up their population of supporters. -
Well the key thing is the size of the land...Originally posted by play_n_play:hello,
i think i just take US as an example, did not compare with sg.
while maybe u could use israel as another example. why it can become the developed country in just decades even it involved many wars fighting with ARAB?
70% of the population in israel are not born in israel. does it have the resources? NO. but it take in lots of FT from Europe, Russia, US...
regards,
play_n_play
larger land allows a country to take in more FT bcuz they can build mroe industries to maintain employment
however singaproe is small...there is limited capacity for constrution of industries
heres the problem...with such small land size,this means limited number of industries and company can be hold,thus leading to limited employment
hence,there shld be a balance of FT to local workers with relation to the land size available
but the goverment dosent balance the ratio,henceincreasing FT wuld ultimately mean lesser jobs for the local.
we cannot use those big nation as a example
cuz they have the land....they can build for examples 10000 mac outlet while we might only be able to hold 50 mac outlet island wide
when we compare singapore to those big nation,both sg and them with same economic prosperity,they definetly have more to shine -
It seemed the govt is also actively trying to encourage more of these PR to become citizen.Originally posted by 0lala:Well the key thing is the size of the land...
larger land allows a country to take in more FT bcuz they can build mroe industries to maintain employment
however singaproe is small...there is limited capacity for constrution of industries
heres the problem...with such small land size,this means limited number of industries and company can be hold,thus leading to limited employment
hence,there shld be a balance of FT to local workers with relation to the land size available
but the goverment dosent balance the ratio,henceincreasing FT wuld ultimately mean lesser jobs for the local.
we cannot use those big nation as a example
cuz they have the land....they can build for examples 10000 mac outlet while we might only be able to hold 50 mac outlet island wide
when we compare singapore to those big nation,both sg and them with same economic prosperity,they definetly have more to shine -
admin staff, mundane officer and etc. what u mentioned below?
do u think singaporean likes to do that kind of job? pay around $800 a month?
basically, i dun think this kind of job need FT, but need FW (foreign worker), since most singaporean dun want to take it.
back to FT. sb. may think some job is given to FT, since FT likes to take less pay. i dun think so. at least in my company which is one of Fortune 50 in the world, some FT's pay is much higher than the singaporean collegues in the same level.Originally posted by de_middle:Eh hello, dun try to teach me that the highlighted was meant as an example. I know what that particular statement is supposed to mean. So cut the crap. You meant it as a comparison & I REITERATE AGAIN, IT IS A STUPID COMPARISON.
dun try to justify it with another country. FT in s'pore who're doing justice as a TALENT, I\i SALUTE......but what about those doing normal mundane office positions, i too work in a sector with many foreign workers & talents.
I see so many of them being given citizenships by the government & wonder where that control lies. Best off, they are not filling up areas where talent ought to be filled, they are simple admin staff performing simple duties which a SINGAPOREAN can easily do......so DO YOU GET THE POINT CHINAMAN? -
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My sentiments exactly..........I seriously wouldn't mind if we import real TALENTS, talents to fill up areas where our locals are not trained for, where skill sets are lacking.Originally posted by ShutterBug:They are just here for our currency.
There are some talents but largely, I see many of them taking up jobs many locals could have had. It's just sad.
And our gov just close one eye (or both) because they're earning future votes from these so called FTs.
But no, they are taking away simple jobs which many s'poreans out there can easily do & are qualified for. Why simply because, they ask for lower salary bearing in mind of the exchange rate after converting to their currency.
Just go down to Burger King's at Liat towers, u see that almost the entire counter staff are lined up with foreigners, most call centres are lined up with foreigners, tell me what TALENT deficiencies are they filling up.
Yes the other point is they come here & use s'pore as a launch pad. So the government have to realise that. -
Eh hello, I AM TALKING ABOUT EXECUTIVES OK?????? Do you have a damn problem reading?????Originally posted by play_n_play:admin staff, mundane officer and etc. what u mentioned below?
do u think singaporean likes to do that kind of job? pay around $800 a month?
basically, i dun think this kind of job need FT, but need FW (foreign worker), since most singaporean dun want to take it.
back to FT. sb. may think some job is given to FT, since FT likes to take less pay. i dun think so. at least in my company which is one of Fortune 50 in the world, some FT's pay is much higher than the singaporean collegues in the same level.
Are you telling me that your "Fortune 50" company is paying $800 for an admin staff??? or $800 for a toilet cleaner??? before you even start to make assumptions, GO AND GET A CONFIRMATION. DON'T ASSUME, PLEASE!!!
Mind me telling you there are many foreigners on "S" pass, as a matter of fact too many. Foreigners under this band, are they classified as FT? This is what I AM IMPLYING.
The highlighted above in your statement, what category are you implying here? -
i am sorry probably i did not read in detailed. i got what u mean now and thanks for ur clarification again.Originally posted by de_middle:Eh hello, I AM TALKING ABOUT EXECUTIVES OK?????? Do you have a damn problem reading?????
Are you telling me that your "Fortune 50" company is paying $800 for an admin staff??? or $800 for a toilet cleaner??? before you even start to make assumptions, GO AND GET A CONFIRMATION. DON'T ASSUME, PLEASE!!!
Mind me telling you there are many foreigners on "S" pass, as a matter of fact too many. Foreigners under this band, are they classified as FT? This is what I AM IMPLYING.
The highlighted above in your statement, what category are you implying here? -
http://www.todayonline.com/pda/139867ag.htm
Think big, dream beyond our size: Minister to youth
Friday • September 1, 2006
— Tor Ching Li
DON'T let the small size of Singapore limit the scope of your dreams — that was the rallying call from Minister of Manpower Ng Eng Hen to about 450 undergraduates at the annual Kent Ridge Ministerial Forum last night.
"We need Singaporeans to think big, take calculated risks and succeed big. We are in need of more real examples of Singaporeans who achieve dreams beyond others' imagination. In all fields — business, science, academia, sports — we need to produce our own world-class icons," said Mr Ng at the forum, on the theme "Standing Tall in a Shrinking World".
He cited "water queen" Olivia Lum, chief executive of water treatment company Hyflux, as someone who had fulfilled her dreams in Singapore. The 46-year-old entrepreneur, who is worth US$240 million ($377 million), was ranked 17th on Forbes Asia's Southeast Asia list of 40 richest businesspeople.
"If she could do it, why not you?" said Mr Ng.
Ms Lum had a good idea that made the seemingly improbable — selling water in a region with torrential rains — become possible and, more importantly, she had the drive to succeed. Mr Ng recounted how Ms Lum, a former Malaysian who came to Singapore at age 16, peddled her water filters and softeners from Jurong to Batu Pahat in Malaysia.
Mr Ng noted that while Singaporean graduates have the advantage of an "established international brand" renowned for intellectual rigour, they are also perceived as being less adept at dealing with "fuzzy situations" and "less daring".
"We have already realigned our educational system to train students to better handle ambiguity, to think and speak on their feet and to manage people, but this is still very much work in progress. Our universities will and must evolve new pedagogical styles to bring out these skills in students," he said.
Another weakness is the unwillingness of Singaporean graduates to work their way up.
"Singaporean graduates should realise that industry practices have changed," he said.
Mr Ng also warned the students they would have to face up to increasing competition from local and overseas graduates. "Ultimately, it will not be your paper qualifications which differentiate you, but your skills and attitudes," he said.
During the question and answer session, one student asked how getting more foreign talent could be reconciled with nation-building goals. Mr Ng replied that perceptions that foreigners stole jobs from locals would have to be managed. Foreign talent were part and parcel of creating more opportunities for Singaporeans.
To a query about dual citizenship, Mr Ng said "soft solutions", such as family ties, were needed to make mobile Singaporeans feel rooted here. It was not something one could solve just by allowing dual citizenship.
Singapore is well poised to benefit from the rise of India and China. Domestically, it has set the stage for local talent to shine, in sectors such as research and development, digital media and tourism.
"The opportunities are there for you and the decisions you make in the next 10 years will decide your trajectory and zenith. The world is literally at your feet, with the possibilities limited only by your grit and imagination," said Mr Ng. -
An Excerpt from Yawning Bread on the issue of immigration:
Rather than the media, it is the government and PAP Members of Parliament who should be the ones selling immigration. It's their policy proposal, after all. Alas, judging from Lee's speech, it's not a convincing sell. You can bet that other ministers and MPs will probably do an even more amateurish job of it.
Pretty much sums up PM Lee's pathetic attempt to sell the idea of immigration and FT to Singaporeans: no political skills
The reason is obvious: this lot does not know how to sell, how to persuade. Recruited from the ranks of the elite, and floated into office, they may know how to wield power, but they have precious little experience winning support.
If Lee's speech is any indication, the argument will fail because to the layman, it remains abstract. It is couched in macro-economic terms. Singapore is short of babies. We need talent to keep the economy growing. Foreign talent is available. So we should admit more of them. It is good for Singapore. Therefore it is good for you.
Besides being too abstract, it suffers from two critical weaknesses.
It fails to close the loop in the mind of the listener, Tan Ah Kow. So you say it's good for Singapore, but how does all this become good for me, he would ask? And find no answer.
It fails to respond to his primary objection, which is the fear that foreigners will rob him of his job.
He should learn a thing or two from Low Thia Khiang and how he commands the interest of a rally crowd. -
Why can't the government get the CEO of some prominent company to sell the FT idea? -
Sep 2, 2006
Drive for foreign talent to become citizens may create greater rather than lighter socio-economic burden
THE drive for foreign talent to become citizens - or even the subject of national economic survival - cannot be a mere matter of boosting the population in absolute figures, as the letter, 'Could Singapore survive another 80 years?' (ST, Aug 31), seems to be dwell on repeatedly.
This is because, if that were the real consideration, there is no lack of foreigners without requisite qualifications who want to become Singapore citizens. The lengths to which illegal workers go to smuggle themselves into Singapore just to find menial jobs shows this is so.
In any case, if we are not careful about the new drive for foreign talent to become citizens, Singapore could end up with a greater rather than a lighter socio-economic burden.
This is because for every immigrant who becomes a Singapore citizen, there are family members who will tag along, including the aged and infirm who will become citizens or permanent residents with certain privileges conferred by the state such as subsidised health care.
And given there is officially no state welfare in Singapore, it also follows that the added burden of an increased population will fall on society in general. How will society cope, seeing that presently the community welfare system is already under strain?
Viability of the economy is more about the appropriateness of overall economic strategies and less about population size. Smaller populations than Singapore, like those of Monaco and Macau, thrive precisely because of this economic strategy factor.
There are many ramifications to this issue of attracting foreign talent to take up citizenship. Some issues the Government and society can look into include:
* How many of the 100,000 Hong Kongers said to have migrated here after the 1989 Tiananmen incident stayed put and how have they contributed to the economy and society?
* There are many fields of endeavour and in-depth knowledge of these fields needed to screen citizenship applicants expertly is hard to come by. Thus if we are not careful, instead of talent we end up with 'pseudo talent' - which society will have to put up with simply because they are now Singapore citizens.
* Talented individuals without paper qualifications, which the Government now also wants, will be difficult if not impossible to identify before they become successful and well known. But if they are already successful, it is doubtful they will be bothered with the citizenship issue as they will be welcome anywhere in the world.
Is it not too sweeping to say that because our forefathers were immigrants, we should be open to new immigrants? There is a wide disparity between the state of development of Singapore then and now.
* Skilled manpower needs can be met as done presently by employing foreign professionals. In other instances, outsourcing or sub-contracting to foreign companies at costs that are lower than localised operations has proved a viable approach. Foreign call centres and software development are two good examples.
There is more flexibility with these options because in an economic downturn, society does not have to cope with a high unemployment rate.
Chia Hern Keng -
A Very well written article by MR Chia -
Dun give this ancestor rubbish reasons.Originally posted by play_n_play:hello,
why i came to SG? i was invited by SG government, MOE -- misitry of education.
why i got the citizenship? i was invited by SG government, ICA -- immigration & checkpoints authority.
china is a developing country but it has enough talents. you could see some of these talents are in US, Europe even SG.
again i felt very very upset you kept barking the country where your ancestor came from.
btw, without the LKY's leadship, can SG become a developed country? it is not a free gift.
regards,
play_n_play
Why not say that since humans evolve from primates and you cheena pple are still indulging in eating monkey brains, you are disrespecting your ancestors. -
one simple question to u,
ur father or maybe ur grandfather can immigrate from china to sg, why others can not do the same thing now?
sg is a freedom country and does not belong to anybody...
Originally posted by MingFreeman:Dun give this ancestor rubbish reasons.
Why not say that since humans evolve from primates and you cheena pple are still indulging in eating monkey brains, you are disrespecting your ancestors. -
from what i see, singaporean are angry because FTs came here fight for jobs and most of them treat Singapore as a stepping stone.
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i agreed with u...Originally posted by freedom4ever:from what i see, singaporean are angry because FTs came here fight for jobs and most of them treat Singapore as a stepping stone.
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you are badly mistaken.Originally posted by play_n_play:one simple question to u,
ur father or maybe ur grandfather can immigrate from china to sg, why others can not do the same thing now?
sg is a freedom country and does not belong to anybody...
singapore WAS a free port in the past, anyone COULD come and make a living here.
but now, SINGAPORE is A NATION. a recognized and established one (membership of ASEAN and UN).
times change. that is undeniable.
you keep repeating the fact that MOE invited you here. not that we care about that MOE piece of crap, but the ground you are standing on is SINGAPORE ground and not CHINA MAINLAND. remember that you are living off what you leeched of the locals. that is, if you have any sense of shame.
wait, you don't have any.
why?
because you reap the benefits out of OUR FOREFATHERS' hard work which was NOT intended for foreign trash like you. talk about forefathers, did your father or grandfather even teach you not to take what is not yours without permission and be proud of it? this seems like the case, provided if you have either of them to teach you any morals in the first place.
you have been harping on the same old reasonings which shows how ignorant you are. talk about a frog in a well.
i have implied this once and i will repeat this again: this is singaporean territory, know where you stand. if you think that i, or any singaporean for that matter, knows only how to whine and complain, you are in deep shit.