Profiles of Both FT policy Supporters & Detractors
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I have casual talks with many frens and acquaintances on the Gahmen's FT policy and discovered their following characteristics:
1)Those who supported the Gahmen's liberal immigration policy are:
+ gainfully employed.
+ at least moderately successful with their careers.
+ some have their own business.
+ mostly aged 35++
Therefore, I conclude that since the effects of mass migration will not affect this group much, they will adopt a welcoming attitude.
2)Those who do not support the FT policy:
- the unemployed.
- the under-employed who is looking for greener pastures.
- the recent graduates/new job seekers.
- those in FT intensive sectors.
As this group's rice bowl is immediately threatened, they tend to ignore the long term benefits of the FT policy. ( i.e. No rice to eat now how to think of future)
Well, I may be stating the obvious here but this also explains why pple in SG have such differing views of FT. -
My field of study is more or less unaffected by FTs, but I am quite vehemently against the govt's policies..
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I am gainfully running my own 'small' business, and I ONLY employ Singaporeans.Originally posted by Pappy Lee:I have casual talks with many frens and acquaintances on the Gahmen's FT policy and discovered their following characteristics:
1)Those who supported the Gahmen's liberal immigration policy are:
+ gainfully employed.
+ at least moderately successful with their careers.
+ some have their own business.
+ mostly aged 35++
Therefore, I conclude that since the effects of mass migration will not affect this group much, they will adopt a welcoming attitude.
2)Those who do not support the FT policy:
- the unemployed.
- the under-employed who is looking for greener pastures.
- the recent graduates/new job seekers.
- those in FT intensive sectors.
As this group's rice bowl is immediately threatened, they tend to ignore the long term benefits of the FT policy. ( i.e. No rice to eat now how to think of future)
Well, I may be stating the obvious here but this also explains why pple in SG have such differing views of FT.
I turned EVERY FT or FW away - PRC or otherwise.
I DO support the use of FTs in sectors where they are much needed, however I DO NOT support the gov's lack of REGULATING the influx of so called "FT"s from China.
The income gap has all these while been created by our government themselves - not anything else. -
I think it's not a matter of supporting or not supporting this policy ...
the writing is on the wall ... we cannot swim against the global current and survive ... we have to ride the waves however ways we can ...
however, we can make the process a lot less painful ....
with regards to social problems, I guess we "native" Singaporeans also have a role to play in how well new immigrants are integrated ... and that's where I think the west has failed to a certain extent ... some countries in the west didn't cared much about national identities and values when welcoming immigrants, and that, coupled with latent xenophobia, lead to the creation of clusters and ghettos of immigrants who lead an existence outside of the mainstream society, they associate and socialize among themselves, they talk their own language, they retain their own customs and quirks (including bad social habits) ...
we can keep them out of sight and out of mind and alienate them more than ever, and they shall remain ever so an "alien" part of our society, or we can strive to make them as much a part of us as we can ....
people in many communities in the west are starting to realize this, I got invites to christmas and thanksgiving dinners from complete strangers through the school, and local community halls organizes welcoming parties for new immigrants from africa, china, wherever ... our own behaviour speaks a lot about our own attitudes eh ? ... I don't deny that there are parasitic immigrants to Singapore (that happens in the US, Canada, or Australia too I suppose) ... but I sometimes wonder what's with this slightly superior attitudes when it comes to dealing with "third" world citizens ... our colonial past has imbued into us this latent sense "rank and order" when it comes to countries and races ? do we look down on them ? ...... or is it that deep down, we are afraid of the competition ? ... -
All is pretty well said, but I believe all of us are game to compete in the global race. But, it must be a FAIR competition.Originally posted by Fatum:I think it's not a matter of supporting or not supporting this policy ...
the writing is on the wall ... we cannot swim against the global current and survive ... we have to ride the waves however ways we can ...
however, we can make the process a lot less painful ....
with regards to social problems, I guess we "native" Singaporeans also have a role to play in how well new immigrants are integrated ... and that's where I think the west has failed to a certain extent ... some countries in the west didn't cared much about national identities and values when welcoming immigrants, and that, coupled with latent xenophobia, lead to the creation of clusters and ghettos of immigrants who lead an existence outside of the mainstream society, they associate and socialize among themselves, they talk their own language, they retain their own customs and quirks (including bad social habits) ...
we can keep them out of sight and out of mind and alienate them more than ever, and they shall remain ever so an "alien" part of our society, or we can strive to make them as much a part of us as we can ....
people in many communities in the west are starting to realize this, I got invites to christmas and thanksgiving dinners from complete strangers through the school, and local community halls organizes welcoming parties for new immigrants from africa, china, wherever ... our own behaviour speaks a lot about our own attitudes eh ? ... I don't deny that there are parasitic immigrants to Singapore (that happens in the US, Canada, or Australia too I suppose) ... but I sometimes wonder what's with this slightly superior attitudes when it comes to dealing with "third" world citizens ... our colonial past has imbued into us this latent sense "rank and order" when it comes to countries and races ? do we look down on them ? ...... or is it that deep down, we are afraid of the competition ? ...
No one would want to partake in ANY competition, if the rules and regulations are UNFAIR.
Level the playground, and all shall participate willfully. -
You yourself said that you employ exclusively locals, regardless of the merits or economic value of foreigners, and you talk about a level playing field?Originally posted by ShutterBug:All is pretty well said, but I believe all of us are game to compete in the global race. But, it must be a FAIR competition.
No one would want to partake in ANY competition, if the rules and regulations are UNFAIR.
Level the playground, and all shall participate willfully.
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My singular and miniscule endeavour in providing jobs to locals, does not make up to the size of said playing field, level or otherwise.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:You yourself said that you employ exclusively locals, regardless of the merits or economic value of foreigners, and you talk about a level playing field? -
you know ... after all that's been said on this subject ... I do agree with shutterbug's business practises ... I'd hire Singaporeans whenever I can when I have my own business in the future too ...
but ... is that enough in the current globalized world ? ...
even Japan, that closed off, xenophobic society, have to open themselves up to global competition, toyota and honda cars are no longer designed exclusively in Japan, they are dreamt up in the studios of oregon and california ... Microsoft and GE have design centers in India and China (including HP in Singapore) ...
we cannot close ourselves off to the world and expect to ride this wave, we're not big enough, our industries not powerful enough, to dictate the rules of the game, or the levelness of the playing field, the only way we can hitch our star to the globalized age is to open ourselves to global talents ...
you know ... I think in a way we should all be glad that there are still people wanting to get "into" Singapore ... when the people from other countries stop coming ... you know that the "grass" has truly stopped growing ...
I think we don't make enough of a distinction between FTs and FWs ... but they are not much different in the end, if we produce enough R&D and design engineers, we probably don't need any of those talents from other countries ... similarly, when we can find enough Singaporeans to sweep the roads, clean our toilets, maintain our neighbourhoods, we needn't import Bangladeshis, Burmese or Indian workers to do those jobs ... mind you .. I have a relative who owns a cleaning company, and after all the foreign worker levies and stuff ... it is actually MORE expensive to hire a foreign worker than to get a local ... but anyone would like a job as a "sanitary technician", aka road sweeper ? .... -
That's true. I was interested in a domestic cleaning business that can provide part-time jobs for unskilled, middle-aged aunties. But Singaporean workers demand higher pay and there is no demand as long as Singaporeans can pay cheap foreign maids S$300 a month to work 24/7. Even with the foreign worker levy, it is still worthwhile to get a full-time maid.Originally posted by Fatum:I think we don't make enough of a distinction between FTs and FWs ... but they are not much different in the end, if we produce enough R&D and design engineers, we probably don't need any of those talents from other countries ... similarly, when we can find enough Singaporeans to sweep the roads, clean our toilets, maintain our neighbourhoods, we needn't import Bangladeshis, Burmese or Indian workers to do those jobs ... mind you .. I have a relative who owns a cleaning company, and after all the foreign worker levies and stuff ... it is actually MORE expensive to hire a foreign worker than to get a local ... but anyone would like a job as a "sanitary technician", aka road sweeper ? ....
For such a business to work, we will need the government to drastically increase the foreign maid levy or ban foreign domastic help altogether to force Singaporeans to give up their foreign maids. Will that happen? Singaporeans will scream blue murder.
Singaporeans can talk about turning away foreign workers but it is really Singaporeans who create the business case for them in the first place. -
Let them scream blue murder.
Who cares.
If you are dedicated to bringing up your child, you will not jump at the first instance to cut corners.
I can't say I have much sympathy for the parents these days. Namby pamby wimps. -
I too, am agreeable to this fact.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Let them scream blue murder.
Who cares.
If you are dedicated to bringing up your child, you will not jump at the first instance to cut corners.
I can't say I have much sympathy for the parents these days. Namby pamby wimps.
I recall back in the 70s everyone got by without maids, and even if they do have one, they're mostly local aunts and or parents/grand parents who had a hand in upbringing their children.
These days, kids a growing up horridly because they were left to foreign maids.
And agreeably, some locals ought to do reality checks on their expectations in life - over-commiting usually spells inability to cope or certainfinancial disasters - as is evidently so in the Straits Times Bankruptcy columns. -
it is indeed true that we need both foreign workers and foreign talents. but the issue is how much is enough. the govt must regulate and control the numbers. we dont need them to be everywhere, only in certain sectors.
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It's so much better to get your close neighbours or your extended family members to help raise your kids and that's only like if they are latch-key kids.Originally posted by ShutterBug:I too, am agreeable to this fact.
I recall back in the 70s everyone got by without maids, and even if they do have one, they're mostly local aunts and or parents/grand parents who had a hand in upbringing their children.
These days, kids a growing up horridly because they were left to foreign maids.
And agreeably, some locals ought to do reality checks on their expectations in life - over-commiting usually spells inability to cope or certainfinancial disasters - as is evidently so in the Straits Times Bankruptcy columns.
What young adults like us nowadays need to reevaluate, is what we have to give up , in return to raise a family. You cannot have your cake and eat it either. Live within your means and do not rely on credit as a means of fund injection.
Then again, detractors will say it is not conducive enough to get people to have kids.But have they realised it's more than just a simple family aspect if we are to talk about affordability.
When one portion of a closed-loop system has a problem, there will be consequences downstream, and definitely, somewhere upstream, something would have happened to cause this.
It would take a long thesis on the impact of immigration on and by labor policy and social policy in the context of political monopoly and direction to go towards fully explaining the whole cost of such a generation and more to come. -
Who cares? Many Singaporean voters would. Just consider the number of families who have domestic maids.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Let them scream blue murder.
Who cares.
If you are dedicated to bringing up your child, you will not jump at the first instance to cut corners.
I can't say I have much sympathy for the parents these days. Namby pamby wimps.
There is a big difference between cheap foreign workers in factories and cheap foreign domestic maids in our homes. Local businesses benefit from a cheap source of labour and although unskilled Singaporeans lose out in the competition, at least the businesses benefit from lower costs and greater competitiveness. More foreign revenue is generated as the nation becomes more competitive as a whole and the economy benefits. In contrast, foreign domestic maids take revenue out of the country.
If we want to restrict unskilled and low-skilled foreign workers in Singapore, we should start with domestic maids but most Singaporeans will not have it. No political party would even dare to suggest that, whether it is the ruling party or the Opposition. -
When you become a parent, your own position might waiver....Originally posted by LazerLordz:Let them scream blue murder.
Who cares.
If you are dedicated to bringing up your child, you will not jump at the first instance to cut corners.
I can't say I have much sympathy for the parents these days. Namby pamby wimps.
Anyhow, my future kids won't be getting a maid....for sure. -
Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Funny how similarities are drawn between maids and slaves back in the 1800s.
Who cares? Many Singaporean [b]voters would. Just consider the number of families who have domestic maids.
There is a big difference between cheap foreign workers in factories and cheap foreign domestic maids in our homes. Local businesses benefit from a cheap source of labour and although unskilled Singaporeans lose out in the competition, at least the businesses benefit from lower costs and greater competitiveness. More foreign revenue is generated as the nation becomes more competitive as a whole and the economy benefits. In contrast, foreign domestic maids take revenue out of the country.
If we want to restrict unskilled and low-skilled foreign workers in Singapore, we should start with domestic maids but most Singaporeans will not have it. No political party would even dare to suggest that, whether it is the ruling party or the Opposition.[/b]
The only difference is maids are paid and treated humanely (well, most of the time anyway) and with equal rights. Slaves were considered 'sub-human' by their inhuman 'masters'.
In short, we have 'legalised' humane slavery....exciting times these days.... -
"humane" is a very relative term for Singaporeans of course ... many of us seem to have this need to lord over some poor, bewildered girls from third world shit holes ...Originally posted by BillyBong:Funny how similarities are drawn between maids and slaves back in the 1800s.
The only difference is maids are paid and treated humanely (well, most of the time anyway) and with equal rights. Slaves were considered 'sub-human' by their inhuman 'masters'.
In short, we have 'legalised' humane slavery....exciting times these days....
ditto the equal rights ... I wouldn't call waking up at the crack of dawn, working into the night, without even a mandated day off "equal" rights ....
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Singaporeans treat foreign domestic maids as indentured laborers without rights of association, no rights to annual leave or rest days. In return, Singaporeans lose their jobs to cheap foreign workers....karmaOriginally posted by Fatum:"humane" is a very relative term for Singaporeans of course ... many of us seem to have this need to lord over some poor, bewildered girls from third world shit holes ...
ditto the equal rights ... I wouldn't call waking up at the crack of dawn, working into the night, without even a mandated day off "equal" rights .... -
quite apt actually.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Singaporeans treat foreign domestic maids as indentured laborers without rights of association, no rights to annual leave or rest days. In return, Singaporeans lose their jobs to cheap foreign workers....karma
it's such a minority that treats them as equal human beings, that I feel disgusted when I see most families outside with their maids.
Sickening. -
Likewise here. I'd go further than that.... I wouldn't employ any former FT even if he/she/it has taken up citizenship here. I would employ only true blue, local born Singaporeans. If we are not going to look after ourselves and look out for each other, who's going to? Period.Originally posted by ShutterBug:I am gainfully running my own 'small' business, and I ONLY employ Singaporeans.
I turned EVERY FT or FW away - PRC or otherwise.
I DO support the use of FTs in sectors where they are much needed, however I DO NOT support the gov's lack of REGULATING the influx of so called "FT"s from China.
The income gap has all these while been created by our government themselves - not anything else. -
look at creative.
singaporeans dont even support local brands. -
this is beyond good sense. bordering on rampant xenophobia I must say.Originally posted by casefan:Likewise here. I'd go further than that.... I wouldn't employ any former FT even if he/she/it has taken up citizenship here. I would employ only true blue, local born Singaporeans. If we are not going to look after ourselves and look out for each other, who's going to? Period. -
All this talk about "karma" and the like is so "sua teng".... only kampong folks from days of yore would talk like that. All this has nothing, zilch, to do with karma........ it has everything to do with the 66.6..... FTs flooding in.....Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Singaporeans treat foreign domestic maids as indentured laborers without rights of association, no rights to annual leave or rest days. In return, Singaporeans lose their jobs to cheap foreign workers....karma -
Bravo! Dig your head deeper into the sand...maybe you might strike goldOriginally posted by casefan:Likewise here. I'd go further than that.... I wouldn't employ any former FT even if he/she/it has taken up citizenship here. I would employ only true blue, local born Singaporeans. If we are not going to look after ourselves and look out for each other, who's going to? Period. -
I think high time we stop complainingOriginally posted by casefan:All this talk about "karma" and the like is so "sua teng".... only kampong folks from days of yore would talk like that. All this has nothing, zilch, to do with karma........ it has everything to do with the 66.6..... FTs flooding in.....
act on it .... start ensuring that they get 10.01% next GE... or even lower...
vote them OUT!