My son, the NS man.
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My son the NSman is still standing tall and positive about his stint in NS though he might have been morally brought down to earth at times by those over-zealous young and inexperienced sergeants from the local junior colleages.
It's a wonder SAF is still functioning, but some part of its images might have been tarnished by these young punks who have just acquiring their new POWER as a sergeant and abuse it! Those are the newly trained sergeants used to train the new recruits. Most may have only Junior colleges experiences and could not even communicate and convey their training skills well! They could not possibly train others well without the use of 4-letter words and other xxxxing languages. It might have been some "cultural shocks" for those young recruits or school leavers who just step into Pulau Tekong! It is a pity that the govt has been campaigning for a courteous society yet in SAF, esp in those BMTC training exercises, most trainees will hear those 4 letter words from those training officers daily. Why is that they could not be firm and effective without uttering those 4-letter words and other dirty local dialects????I thought all along we are in the civilised age and most Singaporeans were educated to certain level to forget about those foul languages, yet it was the BMT that tought and trained those recruits or your children to use those foul languages, and when they could not convey their skills across, they would man-handle their trainees when they made mistakes!
SAF may be in a very precarious situation when most training involves live weapons! What if an illed treated recruit, who was already tired due to lack of sleep, turn their weapon to the abusive sergeant!???There were rumours that such nasty incidents happened in the past, can they guranteed that history will not repeat itself?
It is mind boggling why SAF did not dispatch more well-trained or more well educated senior staff to train the new recruits. One who could at least speak well and able to communicate well like an educationist. Without communication skill, no matter how good are your military skills, are of no use to the trainees! So, why waste time and the resource? Do something to perk up the image of SAF! -
I totally agree with you that soldiers must behave like gentlemen. They should also speak perfect English when they communicate in order to add more class to the profession.
It is impossible to believe that recruits such as your son, who must have high intelligence quotient, is ordered around and abused in such manner. Being made to carry terrible weapons like rifles and grenades, marched around in the scorching sun is totally inhuman. What is worse, is that they probably make your son roll around in mud carrying 4kg weapons and 20kg loads, while being barked and screamed at. Words that are unpleasant... rude... crude... ungentlemenly. (and often referring to his parent's anatomy)
You know heartlander... maybe you should tell your son to suggest an intelligent game of chess when he meets his enemy in war. Or discuss the chances and statistics of being hit by a stray fragment when a grenade goes off. Or discuss the political correctness of pulling the trigger when he is staring down the barrel of an invading soldier.
And of course, kindly remind him not to swear words like "fuck" "your" "mother" "cheebye" at his enemies who fucking fuck civilians and children in the fucking streets in the the fucking war. Lets make war a more fun and educational for all to enjoy! -
why the heck are you blaming only sergeants from junior colleges? whether from jc or poly or ite there are those who are outstanding and those who are the black sheep.
i also dont think instructors should use vulgarities, but then if your son cant even handle things like vulgarities, how the hell you think he's going to handle the pressure of combat when the enemy is bent on killing him? when that happens, it will be that same sergeant you are criticising who will bring your son home alive. -
Excuse me, but did you expect your son to be learning how to defend his country or attending summer camp?
Its very easy to go around bleating about how SAF should be getting professional soldiers to train NSFs instead of other NSFs blah blah blah, but have you ever considered how difficult it is for the SAF to look for manpower? How do you expect them to get professional full time soldiers when Singapore is so short of manpower? Maybe you'd like to put your money where your mouth is to lead the way and be the first of a new crop of "professional soldiers" to train NSFs, so that your precious little boy boy wouldn't be harmed by some A-Level or Poly grad punk?
As for vulgar language, sorry to have to wake you up to acquaint you with the real world, but do you think that everybody called up for NS is as "goody two-shoes", as "cultured" as your baby boy? Do you think the typical Hokkien speaking, primary school educated NSF would be willing to do what his superiors ordered him to do if they tell "nicely", not just that, even the A-level soldiers wouldn't do it, I've seen my share of these so called "well-educated" soldiers who came out from their top JCs, with their crammed-full-of-A1 A-Level certs, and their damned I'm superior to everyone including my country attitude needs these kind of training to remind them that as recruits, that A-Level cert is just another piece of toilet paper.
If you think your son is captured in a war, do you expect his captors to offer him a set of freshly ironed clothes a warm cup of tea, and give him a phone and tell him to call home to let his mummy, daddy and lovesick girl in Singapore that their little boy is all right and having a ball of a time discussing with his captors how the war is affecting daddy's stock portfolio?
Maybe you should ask around for the first generation NSFs, those who were trained by Israeli professional soldiers, how it was like in their time. Tekong is a goddamned holday camp now(I've been asked by tourists at Changi Point what the name of that resort when thry point to Tekong), and you're still bitching.
Wake up and smell the roses. Get real.
[This message has been edited by Viper52 (edited 18 November 2001).] -
tekong now is a holiday camp..how true...been there already...
neway soldiers r not gentlemens...
they r trained to kill n b killed...
vulgarities r part n parcel in all armies worlwide so who cares
neway serve my liability to e nation already
...all thx to xxx xxxx xxx
to live is evil...=) -
Pardon me, but I find the use of "odd-language" rather "stress relieving" at times.
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If Heartlanders son was in my batch, where at least 5 of the mess trays (recruits don't even have the damn things nowadays) in our company would be thrown out of our bunks at every stand-by, along with the customary shouting screaming and pumping, dear boy-boy would probably be sent for counselling every weekend due to the "psychological stress" *snigger*
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eeeeeeeep... the things you people do with mess trays.
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Not me....the instructors....Originally posted by Shotgun:eeeeeeeep... the things you people do with mess trays.
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Sure... go ahead, blame it on the instructors... hahaha.
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heck...if Heartlander can do it...so can I
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Any instructors reading this?
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well... actually if you come to bmt now, instructors there rarely use vulgarities.
Definitely no man-handling, and no physical contact at all.
Instructors are fearful of being accused of ill treatment, as juz one anonymous phone call is enuff to get the instructor charged...
This definitely defeats the whole purpose of tough training in the army.. but as the name states,
BMT is BASIC military training, where civilians are trained to become soldiers.
You can't expect 18 year old kids to adapt to military life immediately...
when they first enter as recruits, the confinement week (the first 3 weeks) is also the no punishment week... so the recruits are NOT verbally reprimanded or physically punished at all....
Only when they return back to camp after their first book out... then the punishments come into effect.
Definitely professional in outlook, but the final product really sucks. -
What you said is true.. the army nowadays are not as siong as what it used to be..and furthermore, but then again, without tough training..how is it possible to train out good soldiers. I do not really know what final product are you talking about..but if its the soldiers that you are talking about..then this is precisly my point. Singaporeans are taking National Service as an obligation and not as a chance to protect and defend his country. This may sound to patriotic and things like that..but..its the mentality within young 18yrs old singaporean itself thats ruining the final product that you are talking about. If singaporeans are able to give in more pride in their service and matured singaporean who have completed their national service are to give more support to others that are going thru it..it will carve a better soldier not physically..at least psycologically. Why is it that countries like Taiwan and US are able produce better soldiers and that their ARMY looks so much superior then what we have now.. its the attitude that their countrymen treats their ARMY and their defence force.Originally posted by malariapill:well... actually if you come to bmt now, instructors there rarely use vulgarities.
Definitely no man-handling, and no physical contact at all.
Instructors are fearful of being accused of ill treatment, as juz one anonymous phone call is enuff to get the instructor charged...
This definitely defeats the whole purpose of tough training in the army.. but as the name states,
BMT is BASIC military training, where civilians are trained to become soldiers.
You can't expect 18 year old kids to adapt to military life immediately...
when they first enter as recruits, the confinement week (the first 3 weeks) is also the no punishment week... so the recruits are NOT verbally reprimanded or physically punished at all....
Only when they return back to camp after their first book out... then the punishments come into effect.
Definitely professional in outlook, but the final product really sucks.
on top of that, the personnals themselves take a great pride in what they do. Years of peace and prosperity has already erroded the people's known to fear and War. its not that i advocate a war to make it known to singaporean outside the importance or the capability of the country's defence force. But more encouragment and pride whould be given to the NSFs who are spending 2.5years of their time learning to protect their country. And take pride in it when they are doing so..
'More Sweat in training, Less Blood in Battle' -
hmmm.m..heartlander...have you been into NS before?or that you are just abt to get in huh??(juz wondering)...Originally posted by Heartlander:It is mind boggling why SAF did not dispatch more well-trained or more well educated senior staff to train the new recruits. One who could at least speak well and able to communicate well like an educationist. Without communication skill, no matter how good are your military skills, are of no use to the trainees! So, why waste time and the resource? Do something to perk up the image of SAF! -
you guys tok too much....its time for water parade!!! loyalty to country, leadership,discipline, professionalism.......
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hey...u should really write to straits time or the newpaper about those in-experience sergeants.and also your son kana kicked in the face by a malay sergeant + his name also...
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Da Jia Hao!!!Wo Shi Qing Chun Ou Siang Kang Kang!!
[This message has been edited by kangkang (edited 15 January 2002).] -
im one!Originally posted by Shotgun:Any instructors reading this? -
Fuck the stupid instructor and SAF. That what i had learned to do from SAF in return if my son has any injuries or worst lost his life in an accident. but will that bring everything or your son back to life? Think about that. The government had so much money that even the SAF can build so much Officer club house around in our land shortaged singapore and they wanna save up on defense making use of cheap labour. Well, guess heartlander you got to blame yourself for giving birth to your son in singapore lar.
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If your son suffered from an accident/ or died, its pretty much too fucking bad. Everybody's sons are risking the same fucking thing too. If anybody gets killed, its prolly because ur son was either too fucking stupid to not follow orders or it was just a real accident.
Nobody ever said soldiering was an easy risk free job. If you don't want your son to do something that would endanger his life or chip his precious lil toe nail, then don't fucking live in Singapore, and dun fuck in Singapore. Everybody's contributing to make this little island a safe place to stay, why can't you? -
If such a comment come out of an officer's mouth, i wonder how all the parents in singapore will think. > Clap Clap < BravoOriginally posted by Shotgun:If your son suffered from an accident/ or died, its pretty much too fucking bad. If anybody gets killed, its prolly because ur son was either too fucking stupid to not follow orders or it was just a real accident.
Sorry i like to correct you here, not EVERYBODY's sons are risking the same fucking thing. The degree of risk are different for different categories of pple.
Everybody's sons are risking the same fucking thing too.
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If this is the mentality of the government in singapore, it's no wonder more and more local migrating oversea and no wonder our male population is getting less and less. Which parent don worry for their sons? As for dun fuck in singapore? who say so? is it passed by law. Do you know what's contraceptive? Do you know of our population problems?
Nobody ever said soldiering was an easy risk free job. If you don't want your son to do something that would endanger his life or chip his precious lil toe nail, then don't fucking live in Singapore, and dun fuck in Singapore.
Anyway, singapore is not populated by you the 2nd class citizen only and you will soon or later be the minority in singapore. Please lower yourself when speaking in public. We still have our foreign expat and PRs creaming over you. So not everyone's son are required to serve NS even thought they live in singapore. Other pple's son can come into singapore as PR to stay for long. That's for your info. -
Oh right, since when did I represent the mentality of Singapore? I don't think I'm fuckin big enough to do that. These are all my personal opinions. If people want to live in Singapore, they better play a part in the countries defense. Soldiering is a risky job, and the government isn't ASKING you to do it, its just COMPULSORY. If any mishaps happen, its just too fucking bad.
I never said "DON't WORRY for your son." Or that you should fuck care him. But does your "worry" warrant you the right to "FUCK SAF AND IT's INSTRUCTORS?" Remember, it is these men who are keeping your son alive and teaching him to keep himself alive in War. Unless you think you can save more lives than these officers, fucking respect them. If these instructors lax on their training, believe me, you won't see your son after the war. Oh, you've probably migrated leaving your son behind.
As for PRs, no thanks, I'd rather not have PRs servin in Mindef. Who knows where their loyalties lie. We might save a hell lot of more troubles without them. Anyway, most of these PR types would probably be the first to flee when the fighting comes.
So like, who are you to start determining who are 2nd class citizens? You and WHAT authority? Why should I lower myself to the likes of YOU who blatantly curse the Armed Service of this Country. A country which YOU live in? Tell me WHY should I? -
Shotgun has a point you know. I mean, most of the instructors in BMTC are also NSFs trying their best to do their jobs, and as a recruit I've seen all kinds of jerks trying to make their instructors lives tough (and these jerks are the well educated types who really ought to know better). You really think any instructor would like to ruin his life in the army and possibly his entire life in future by kicking a recruit just for the fun of it? I'm not saying this for certain, but I did point out to Heartlander in a previous post to maybe ask himself and his son why did the instructor do what he allegedly did.
As for PRs serving the nation, how many of them actually do. I've had lots of classmates in Aussie unis who gave up their PRs because they didn't want to serve NS, afte their parents came here and got the riches to send their sons away for studies. Do we really want to depend on people like them, who have no obligation or loyalty to the nation, for defence? I don't
Millions of Singaporean males went through NS, why must a certain few be so special and bitch left right and centre? -
Oh ya, one thing i've been meaning to ask.
Was ur son kicked during unarmed combat training? -
Wake... are you LOw T. F. ???
I think you are...