My son, the NS man.
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heh heh now i know u havent gone in yet. how i know? heh heh.....unarmed combat is not part of the training syllabus in bmt...Originally posted by Shotgun:Oh ya, one thing i've been meaning to ask.
Was ur son kicked during unarmed combat training?
but its ok, i like that you got a gd attitude bout the whole ns thing so far, and i honestly hope you can keep this up when you go in. its a lot of shit, but trust me, it feels a lot better if deep down you truly believe that what you are doing makes a difference. and it does make a diff, regardless of wat ppl like kyo23 might say. he's the kind who never believed so wnet thru the shit feeling bitter and emerged full of resentment.
oh, i tangled with kyo23 in some other thread similar to dis one, dont bother bout his comments. once when i was in bmt, when the new complex in tekong just opened, word came down that a member of the public complaining that we recruits stank when we took the mrt from pasir ris when book out saturday. wat the hell? like, duh?
anyway that was when i realised that, realli, all those sacrifeices you made (or will make) it benefits even those who dont appreciate or dont believe. those ppl dont matter. the ppl who do the sacrifice are the ones who matter most.
regards
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RockerZ! -
I believe that it is something I have to do. And the duty of every male citizen to do so. I believe there is no point being whiny about it, since you have to do it anyway. Being afraid of injuries doesn't excuse anybody from it. I believe that Shit happens, no matter how well prepared and trained a person is. And if u die, u die.. no amount of badgering, lawsuits, complaints laments, will revive you. Sad as a death maybe, the SAF still has a job to do. And if you start complaining, criticizing, cursing the SAF, it will only serve to dampen the spirit of new recruits who go in. It will only serve to reduce the morale and faith in their outfit. In the end, who lose? We all lose.
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Complain about recruits stinking? What the f*** do these people(rather, idiots) think the recruits go to the damn island for, week in week out? Play chess in air con rooms?
The typical Singaporeans attitude to national defense and geopolitics really suck. I know what I'm about to say is going to cause controversy but I think that maybe if the terrorists had succeeded and blew something up over here, would people actually wake up and smell the roses. Otherwise they have this damn "Singapore is safe nothing will happen here" attitude.
I bet they would have thought the 2 Delta snipers who volunteered to go down to the 2nd crash site in Blackhawk Down and died eventually(a true story - both snipers got a congressional medal of honour each) were stupid for chasing after a lost cause. -
Thats the attitude man. With it your ORD will arrive like lightning even if you're in a shit job with a shit unit. If you have attitudes like Kyo23 then you'll find life draggy even if you're in the most comfy job in the most lobo unit. Its as simple as thatOriginally posted by Shotgun:I believe that it is something I have to do. And the duty of every male citizen to do so. I believe there is no point being whiny about it, since you have to do it anyway. Being afraid of injuries doesn't excuse anybody from it. I believe that Shit happens, no matter how well prepared and trained a person is. And if u die, u die.. no amount of badgering, lawsuits, complaints laments, will revive you. Sad as a death maybe, the SAF still has a job to do. And if you start complaining, criticizing, cursing the SAF, it will only serve to dampen the spirit of new recruits who go in. It will only serve to reduce the morale and faith in their outfit. In the end, who lose? We all lose. -
Shotgun says:
"As for PRs, no thanks, I'd rather not have PRs servin in Mindef. Who knows where their loyalties lie. We might save a hell lot of more troubles without them. Anyway, most of these PR types would probably be the first to flee when the fighting comes."
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Not all PRs are like that. I've of a friend whose's a PR from Msia and he's damn garang BMT that he was selected to OCS. Now a Arty (ORDed) Officer.
Got a friend whose a PR from Idsia since young and became a (ORDed)guards spec. Siao on in the ARMY and finally got his pink IC.
Got a guy whose a PR from Canada, won "Best soldier" award in our unit for his self-dicipline, fitness and IFC. (ORDed)
If this PRs are geniune in their stay in SG and serious about defence, I think we'll need them too.
But course some will do anything to "siam" NS. -
Well, then theres always the un-avoidable question of whether they will pull the trigger on their own countrymen.
In one hand, they are citizens of that country, on the other hand, they are soldiers in Singapore. SHOULD a war occur between Singapore or Indonesia, or Canada (hmmm nvm), would they carry out their orders, risking their citizenship?
SAF doesnt have anything like the french foreign legion at all. =/ -
Had urine regime during BMT, asked the Sgt if that'd affect my chances of entry into OCS/SISPEC, an officer cut in and said no. But the Sgt later told me privately that, sure as hell, it's gonna.
Used to be damn gung ho in the SAF ($ingapore Acting Force, as what my OC used to say), pushed myself to the max just to be the best I could be. But what's achieved? Just got bollocking all the time by the rest for being 'siao on' and all. You don't get a hand to pull you out of the mud, oh no, they'd rather step on you so you'd sink faster.
2 years spent with riflemen, hokkien pengs, people I thought who should understand things about loyalty best. Bullshit. Only a handful truly did at the end of the day. The rest? I'd sooner turn my rifle towards them then the enemy. At least in a war, you know who the enemy is, or do you? We share because we care. Right.
If you can come out of that unscathed, I salute you. For me? I was disillusioned in the end. Didn't give no damn about my ATEC.
Know what the problem is? Apathetic youth and commanders who can't lead, even barely think. Leadership through example? Load of crap if you ask me. The superiors can barely even control the men today, picking on the obedient ones and tolerating the rebellious ones.
"Do anything you want, just don't get caught." That's the true motto of the SAF.
Perhaps it's different in other units, I don't know. But if all units were like mine, then God Bless Singapore if we were ever to go to war.
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"I've already served my time,
Now wouldn't you just leave me alone?" -
Is it really that sad in your case? Or is it just a few particular units that have this problem? You make it sound as tho everybody in ur unit had a problem. And that you're the only "normal" one, and u got picked for that. I don't understand how that can be the case.
Is discipline really a big problem with the SAF nowadays? Are the Officers really that incapable?
IF thats the case? Why are these officers made officers? Just because they got an A' level cert? Because they can become a uni-grad? Do these officers WANT to be officers in the first place? Personally, I would like to believe that officers are the men that will motivate, and lead the men into battle, people who know what they are doing, and not just what the physics textbook is talking about. I don't care if my officer is just an O' level grad or wat, as long as he can be an example to his men, and understand that all his men are precious. Kinda like Captain John Miller in Saving Private Ryan. -
Nah, I ain't 'normal', mate, nobody is 'normal' nowadays. If everyone is dysfunctional, then wouldn't dysfunctionality become the norm? No, I wasn't the only one, thank you.
Well, I've seen cases where a private can tell his PC to go to hell in front of the whole company and he wasn't reprimanded. And being a 3SG is no better than being a men in some instances.
Er... Most of my officers don't have an 'A' level cert, they're mostly poly grads. Almost all of them are regulars, actually. But fact is, some of them led so badly that it's like a joke, and I guess the only reason why they did get their rank was simply because they signed on. Sure, there were officers who can lead, but they are few and far between. And men who do give a damn, but apathy sets in. Yes, personally I would like to believe that officers are of such high calibre too. But a spade's a spade, in most cases.
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"I've already served my time,
Now wouldn't you just leave me alone?" -
Was that the reason i have suffered so much? Being an regular officer in SAF is not as incompetent as you though. Unless this chap is a PR from Malaysia, trying to sabotage your morale with his limited talent. I suggest that you should find out more abt OCS trainings and our combat units' capabilities.Originally posted by Kucinta:Nah, I ain't 'normal', mate, nobody is 'normal' nowadays. If everyone is dysfunctional, then wouldn't dysfunctionality become the norm? No, I wasn't the only one, thank you.
Well, I've seen cases where a private can tell his PC to go to hell in front of the whole company and he wasn't reprimanded. And being a 3SG is no better than being a men in some instances.
Er... Most of my officers don't have an 'A' level cert, they're mostly poly grads. Almost all of them are regulars, actually. But fact is, some of them led so badly that it's like a joke, and I guess the only reason why they did get their rank was simply because they signed on. Sure, there were officers who can lead, but they are few and far between. And men who do give a damn, but apathy sets in. Yes, personally I would like to believe that officers are of such high calibre too. But a spade's a spade, in most cases. -
So how have you suffered, my dear friend? Are you a regular officer yourself? That is what I have deduced from your words, but I may be wrong.
Being a PR from M'sia, or a PR from anywhere else for that matter, in my opinion does not necessarily indicate a lack of loyalty placed in the $AF. I'm half M'sian myself, and have spent the earlier parts of my life shuttling to and fro.
No, perhaps I'm being unfair here by making a generalisation, and the case I've described is an isolated incident in my unit.
A lot of my friends, my ex classmates, are officers, so I roughly do know much about OCS trainings, insofar as much a person who did not go through it himself could.
Our combat units' capabilities? Spending two years in one and discussing our viablility throughout with both Specialists and Officers should be sufficient enough, I think.
I am but a frog in a well, and would appreciate it much if you could enlighten me about your own experiences.
------------------Originally posted by hardware:Was that the reason i have suffered so much? Being an regular officer in SAF is not as incompetent as you though. Unless this chap is a PR from Malaysia, trying to sabotage your morale with his limited talent. I suggest that you should find out more abt OCS trainings and our combat units' capabilities.
"I've already served my time,
Now wouldn't you just leave me alone?" -
My apology, i assumed you are a Singaporean by birth. I would not reveal any info abt SAF to you or your malaysian mates. sorry. Though I might understand the plight your commanders were in
"You will not hear or see me till my knife point is press to your throat."
[/B][/QUOTE]Originally posted by Kucinta:So how have you suffered, my dear friend? Are you a regular officer yourself? That is what I have deduced from your words, but I may be wrong.
Being a PR from M'sia, or a PR from anywhere else for that matter, in my opinion does not necessarily indicate a lack of loyalty placed in the $AF. I'm half M'sian myself, and have spent the earlier parts of my life shuttling to and fro.
No, perhaps I'm being unfair here by making a generalisation, and the case I've described is an isolated incident in my unit.
A lot of my friends, my ex classmates, are officers, so I roughly do know much about OCS trainings, insofar as much a person who did not go through it himself could.
Our combat units' capabilities? Spending two years in one and discussing our viablility throughout with both Specialists and Officers should be sufficient enough, I think.
I am but a frog in a well, and would appreciate it much if you could enlighten me about your own experiences.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by hardware:
[b]Was that the reason i have suffered so much? Being an regular officer in SAF is not as incompetent as you though. Unless this chap is a PR from Malaysia, trying to sabotage your morale with his limited talent. I suggest that you should find out more abt OCS trainings and our combat units' capabilities. -
Yes, I am a $ingaporean by birth, mate. At no point did I say I wasn't. Being half M'sian means what to you? I was born in Thomson Medical Centre, if you must know.
And you don't have to reveal anything if you know nothing, right? I've got officer friends, like I said before, and they work in all formations, including MINDEF, MSD and SMI. I know more than I'd like to.
So in reality, I don't need you to tell me anything. I was just being polite and letting you have a chance to give your 2 cents worth. Too bad, it was just a waste of time on my part. *Shrugz*
You, my dear sir, have just proven my point.
"Alas, dear lad,
My knife point is pressed to your groin."
------------------Originally posted by hardware:My apology, i assumed you are a Singaporean by birth. I would not reveal any info abt SAF to you or your malaysian mates. sorry. Though I might understand the plight your commanders were in
"You will not hear or see me till my knife point is press to your throat."
"I've already served my time,
Now wouldn't you just leave me alone?" -
I don't care if your are born in Singapore mandai zoo, that didn't make you are a "Singaporean". What formation? never heard of? or did your friend mean organisation?
Remember this, Singaporeans are more 'expensive' than Malaysians.
"When this knife had waste your life, your family shall follow suit"Originally posted by Kucinta:Yes, I am a $ingaporean by birth, mate. At no point did I say I wasn't. Being half M'sian means what to you? I was born in Thomson Medical Centre, if you must know.
And you don't have to reveal anything if you know nothing, right? I've got officer friends, like I said before, and they work in all formations, including MINDEF, MSD and SMI. I know more than I'd like to.
So in reality, I don't need you to tell me anything. I was just being polite and letting you have a chance to give your 2 cents worth. Too bad, it was just a waste of time on my part. *Shrugz*
You, my dear sir, have just proven my point.
"Alas, dear lad,
My knife point is pressed to your groin." -
Please, we're all educated people here. Well... In your case, I shall give you a benefit of a doubt. So why can't you substantiate your points? Instead of just sliming me?
Formation/Organisation, what does your statement prove? That you have a better command of english than me? Does that give you a sense of satisfaction? But have you said anything of substance at all?
What's this about $'poreans being more expensive than M'sians? Can you stop beating about the bush and just say something intelligent?
"Whatever mate, I don't really give a fiddler's fart, simply 'cos with your testicles gone, you wouldn't even have a family"
------------------Originally posted by hardware:I don't care if your are born in Singapore mandai zoo, that didn't make you are a "Singaporean". What formation? never heard of? or did your friend mean organisation?
Remember this, Singaporeans are more 'expensive' than Malaysians.
"When this knife had waste your life, your family shall follow suit"
"I've already served my time,
Now wouldn't you just leave me alone?" -
Such an arrogant fellow, if you are an officer, i really doubt the future of singapore. You might be the one who will initiate a war on singapore just like some big mouth talking without brain accusing indonesia without evidence. So you are any bigshot in singapore since you are in some formation to be talking like that?? SAF officer bigshot?Originally posted by hardware:I don't care if your are born in Singapore mandai zoo, that didn't make you are a "Singaporean". What formation? never heard of? or did your friend mean organisation?
Remember this, Singaporeans are more 'expensive' than Malaysians.
"When this knife had waste your life, your family shall follow suit"
Since when singaporean became more expensive when we are labelled 2nd class citizen BY the government? The government want more foreign talent and hence that's what you see swarming around on the street and office building. Shotgun, go check out the market instead of tokking like a frog in the well, and be enlightened that not everyone who want to stay in singapore need to go thru those NS shit. They can simply come in easily with their degree cert and work as professional, being a PR or even taking up citizenship finally without the need to waste 2.5 years of their youth and run thru 13 years lifecycle of ICT without disrupting their job like local guy and hence affecting the company's business. So in the commercial sense, yes we are considered more expensive than those cheap foreign talent who can do the job better and longer hour than us. But in the NS sense, we are just needed for cheap labour to help defend singapore. In political sense, we are hopeless. So are we still considered expensive anymore in your sense i like to ask. Or are we simply expensive just because we are facing population crisis, having less male to be used as cheap labour by the government?
[This message has been edited by Kyo23 (edited 27 February 2002).] -
Kyo23, frog in the well or not, whether those blokes serve NS or not... I don't care. As far as I am concerned, I have completely no qualms with serving 2 1/2 years of NS. I don't understand why should you. Being born in Singapore, studied in singapore, you of all people should know the history of Singapore. You of all people should know why its important to have national service.
If training for a possible confrontation to defend my friends and family here makes me 2nd class citizen, then I will be happy being a 2nd class citizen.
Shotgun, the 2nd Class citizen. -
Yawn... jet lap...
Arrogant, hell ya!!! Doubt the future of Singapore? I hope I'd done my part for the past week, managed to increase Singapore's export last week with more than a million USD. Not much, I must admit
As a junior officer(NS), I do not have the authority to start a war. But will fight a war if any low life faggots continues to threaten Singapore's interest. Bigshot officer, i like this description thks.
Can the Malaysian flag be abused abuse like burning it in front of your embassy?
I'll not tolerate any abuse to my national's flag. With Singapore's law blessing, I'll like to burn their flags everyday. Till then these countries will kiss my donations goodbye.
Does anyone in this forum knows the average salaries does a malaysian gets compare to Singaporean workforce? Pls provide true figures. -
Can't understand why Kyo23 is always posting ANTI-SAF sentiments in this forum. Wasting of time, cheap labours, etc. Are you some bloody bloke who probably got abused while in NS(if you've ever been in it!) or just plain dumb?
If you ever studied in Sg, you'll know the importance of NS in the defence of the country, our little isle. Seriously, if not for them, i doubt you'd be sitting in front of your com typing all this threads cos the bombs will be over your head!
Call it abuse, waste of time, but i think it's a phase in every physically abled male in this little isle to make it thru', a step towards manhood. All the shit, all the crap, it's all just plain experiences that could probably help you in later part of your life, to be applied in whatever ways that helps.
And i strongly condemn all that speaks ill of the system, it's already bad enough not to be appreciated, but to be humiliated, that's just too much! -
Eyezer, you got my vote on that. For those who hate the SAF, then maybe you should get out of Singapore. Because if you stay, I ain't gonna protect you.
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it's a vicious cycle...
u go in...ur SG bully u...
when ur turn to be SG u bully the newbies...
vent watever u suffer on the new blokes...
i always hear stories about how SG evil-ly plan to arrow some particular guys..find an outright diminutive reason to confine the him/them during the weekend...
they abuse their power bcos last time they were under such abuse from their SG
so when this batch promote liao they will sabo or tekkan (watever NS lingo) the newbies... -
I think you are mistaken, Firstly, who say those who hate the SAF should get out of singapore? 2ndly, can you stop them from coming into singapore, you little nobody? 3rdly, who need your protection at all when the government will protect them? 4thly, those who came into singapore must stay here forever in their life? Can't they think of retiring elsewhere while treating singapore as a working place to earn off bigbuck? Don be so naive. Look in the mirror b4 you tok big or think you are some bigshot who can control who can stay here.Originally posted by mfscrewu:Eyezer, you got my vote on that. For those who hate the SAF, then maybe you should get out of Singapore. Because if you stay, I ain't gonna protect you. -
Ask yourself the same question also. If you being thru the shit like me and came out knowing just how to speak vulgar language, then you will reconsider rejoining the shit for another 2.5 years to show your loyalty. Spenting those quality time in education and career would be much better off.Originally posted by Eyezer:Can't understand why Kyo23 is always posting ANTI-SAF sentiments in this forum. Wasting of time, cheap labours, etc. Are you some bloody bloke who probably got abused while in NS(if you've ever been in it!) or just plain dumb?And i strongly condemn all that speaks ill of the system, it's already bad enough not to be appreciated, but to be humiliated, that's just too much!
humiliated or not, it a hard fact that there's nothing good you can tok about NS beside knowing how to wayang. -
Kyo23, just as you are entitled to your view, I believe I am entitled to mine. Too bad you don't agree with me, but then I don't give a hoot about that. What you went through in SAF is your own problem. I went through the same thing and I enjoyed it. In fact, I am signing on again as a regular. I am not stopping them from coming to singapore, I am just saying that they should get out. True the govt will protect these anti-SAF people but then again, govt rely on SAF personnel to do so and "accidents" do happen in time of war. When did I say that foreigners should stay here forever? Maybe you should get your facts right before you accuse me of saying that. Lastly, it is true that I ain't no big shot, but neither are you.
Your idea of quality time means studying and earning big bucks. That reflects what a selfish nature you have. If you don't like the country and refuse to serve and protect it, then leave. I am sure singapore can do without such a selfish person like you.
I might not have your "level" of education and probably won't earn shitload of money like you perceive you would. But there is one thing I have, a country which I can proudly call home and protect. -
u new here ah?Originally posted by mfscrewu:Kyo23, just as you are entitled to your view, .
heh heh dont bother wif kyo23 lah...
i debate wif him until damn sian liao...
got ppl like you we will survive, nevermind wat ppl like him wanna say.
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RockerZ!