World Bank criticizes Singapore; Sg breached an agreement
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Meetings with violent protesters will do well to stay away from Singapore. I don't want them either. But this will send a message to big MNCs who want to discuss serious issues without disruption by protesters...do it in Singapore!Originally posted by dragg:if that were the case i believe we wont have a chance to host the event a 2nd time. -
I AM a British citizen who regularly visits my daughter and family who have lived here for the past nine years.
I urge all Singaporeans to support their Government's stand on activists - human rights, animal rights, whatever.
I have just returned from Britain where I saw on the front page of a newspaper a photograph of our national flag being burnt on a street in London while the police looked on, unable to do anything due to the government's policy of freedom to 'peacefully demonstrate'.
Philip Ringsdore
Straits Times, 14 Sept -
This thread troubles me.
I cannot believe that there are actually people who want demonstrations and riots.
The very same people will be blaming the gahmen if its their own cars/homes/businesses that get damaged or their loved ones hurt.
Or bitching if they get called up to help quell the riots.
Oh well.
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The point is; WHO, signed the Agreement 3 friggin years ago???Originally posted by av98m:This thread troubles me.
I cannot believe that there are actually people who want demonstrations and riots.
The very same people will be blaming the gahmen if its their own cars/homes/businesses that get damaged or their loved ones hurt.
Or bitching if they get called up to help quell the riots.
Oh well.
And WHAT did the agreement they signed, obligated them to accept?? :- demonstrations by all listed CSOs.
They're like taking a hammer, and knocking their own heads with it. -
in layman term, if you cant accept the terms by IMF/WB might as well dont host....save time , $$$ and people and most important FACE.Originally posted by ShutterBug:The point is; WHO, signed the Agreement 3 friggin years ago???
And WHAT did the agreement they signed, obligated them to accept?? :- demonstrations by all listed CSOs.
They're like taking a hammer, and knocking their own heads with it. -
Well, looks like they didn't save money, nor time, or people's conveniences and certainly not FACE.Originally posted by duotiga83:in layman term, if you cant accept the terms by IMF/WB might as well dont host....save time , $$$ and people and most important FACE.
Pretty red by now....
..we as citizens also look kinda sheepish also...
friggin embarrassing year this has turned out to be... -
Gahmen don't want to set precedence... wait all the peasants start protesting against Gahmen and shake up their peanut trees how?
IMF also another bastard. You think they really want the protesters here meh? 26,000 turned up because they know it's safe but IMF chief want to use this oppty to project that he's open to feedback from all activist (behind close doors, they are planning how to screw those people big time).... sounds familar right? -
Originally posted by anonymouscoward:Gahmen don't want to set precedence... wait all the peasants start protesting against Gahmen and shake up their peanut trees how?
IMF also another bastard. You think they really want the protesters here meh? 26,000 turned up because they know it's safe but IMF chief want to use this oppty to project that he's open to feedback from all activist (behind close doors, they are planning how to screw those people big time).... sounds familar right?
test our democracry and human rights mah 
since we all rely on paper qualifications to show our professionlism mah 
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In a sense, I think Singapore being bombarded by other gaints like IMF is good for Singapore. Hopefully they will and can learn. U want to be international, U better learn to be international.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Our gov is going to make a "reputation" for themselves by insisting on acting 'Holier than Thou' towards international bodies like the WB...
Like I've said, their own actions defames themselves - no one needs to defame them.
Yes, we dun want to have riots. But at least give them a voice. Everyone shud have a voice. Stop being kaisi and ban everythings they think is bad. Remind me of the chewing gum. -
the police only know how to plan and organise mock emergencies, so used to carry out according to plan. but come to real ones, do they still be as efficient?
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U r right!!!Originally posted by anonymouscoward:Gahmen don't want to set precedence... wait all the peasants start protesting against Gahmen and shake up their peanut trees how?
IMF also another bastard. You think they really want the protesters here meh? 26,000 turned up because they know it's safe but IMF chief want to use this oppty to project that he's open to feedback from all activist (behind close doors, they are planning how to screw those people big time).... sounds familar right?
I will tell u a real storey in IMM, serveral yrs ago,there was a bang in IMM when Giant was just starting business, our police thought there is an explosion of bombs w/in IMM, a command cetre was immdiately set up in IMM with CID booms specilalists and fire bridge and policeman,altoghter more than 100 personals invloved in this case, and evetually it is only a collapse of an internal well which killed one passerby. Human and vehicle traffic were halted for 5 hours,storeholders including therin suffered a business loss of 5 hours due to a small incident!!!
Our Civil Servants in order to protect their position and salary they alway over do thing to please their boss.
Can anyone tell me,why there r 24,000 delegates here n yet there r no small than 200 countries in this world!!! R they coming here 4 pleasure or business!!!Why their spouse and family members r here 4!!! -
but then, maybe we live in an greenhouse environment too comfotable that many people want to see something different happen. sigh..
govt invest so much of our $$ and time and effort to make sure everything is smoothly carried out yet ganna critized by the guests. and we can do nothing about it. -
demonstration = damaged cars/homes/etc etc?Originally posted by av98m:This thread troubles me.
I cannot believe that there are actually people who want demonstrations and riots.
The very same people will be blaming the gahmen if its their own cars/homes/businesses that get damaged or their loved ones hurt.
Or bitching if they get called up to help quell the riots.
Oh well.
You have a very *very* warped view of the world.
Still, to each his own. -
See lah.. uniquely Singapore... kiasu to the max. So smart... deny entry to the activists so that no need to confront them. Smile some more lah...
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I realise that many forumers in sgForums always try to find fault with the Singapore government without really thinking...
This article is based on the views of ONE reporter. I urge all of you to keep in mind the POWER OF THE PEN. Reporters are very well versed in this. Some reporters can write that they saw a Tarantula spider in their chicken rice when in fact they saw only a small fruit fly...
To those of you who agreed that those activists should be let in, wait till they start a riot just outside your house.... set a fire to your main door.... overturn your car... kill your family members during the chaos etc etc etc.... Well, the Singapore police may be able to put a stop to the riot, but there will definitely be damage done once a riot starts...
Please bloody use your brains to think first before you talk, people... -
we cant expect to have no problems forever.Originally posted by jacqn:the police only know how to plan and organise mock emergencies, so used to carry out according to plan. but come to real ones, do they still be as efficient?
in a way, this is a good chance to put training into practice.
with proper planning i doubt the protest will lead to burning of houses, looting and whatnot.
afterall we are not suggesting that our govt admit 1000 or more activists. -
One reason why IMF/WB meetings are being held here is because of the sense of security they get when they assemble in our country.
Why would you want to have demonstrations?
Even if they are not violent and car-bashing and stuff, they will probably be shouting and making alot of noise right? How would you like it to have people camping outside your house?
I mean, if you want to express your views, can't you do it in a more civilised manner? Instead of shouting and marching in the streets.
I don't think our democracy is decided by the prevention of trouble makers in Singapore.
Imagine, if you allow just ONE person to protest outside Suntec. Throughout the next few weeks you will have all sorts of people protesting everywhere and burning our flag. Freedom of expression what.
Does freedom of speech, freedom of the media and freedom of assembly have to mean noisy demonstrations and protests?
Can't you just air your views in Sgforums? -
Originally posted by dragg:we cant expect to have no problems forever.
in a way, this is a good chance to put training into practice.
Let's have a war then... or else our years of national service will be wasted cos we have no chance to put training into practice...
with proper planning i doubt the protest will lead to burning of houses, looting and whatnot.
Okay, how are we going to do that? Treat them to dinner at posh restaurants? Tell them to talk over things nicely? If that's the case, they won't be labelled as protestors already... These activists do not intend to talk over things nicely in the first place... they want to protest! they want demonstrations! and even if they do not start riots, they will cause lots of inconcenience and fear to us, Singaporeans!
afterall we are not suggesting that our govt admit 1000 or more activists.
So what is a safe number then? and which ones should we select to let in? -
Singapore Allows Entry to 22 of 27 Previously Barred Activists
By Linus Chua
Sept. 15 (Bloomberg) -- Singapore will allow the entry of 22 of 27 activists it objected to earlier, after World Bank President Paul Wolfowitz said the city-state suffered ``enormous damage'' to its reputation for the restriction.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=azrabGD7ttnY&refer=asia
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If mass protests were allowed, then property would be damaged and lives possibly at stake. Guess what? This incident will be remembered and PAP will lose a lot of votes the next election.
Why?
1) Damages the credence of PAP in upholding law and order.
2) Any protests are unprecedented in our modern history. If our people can't do so, likewise for foreigners.
3) Foreign investors will surely get a shock and reconsider their stance on S'pore
4) Badly affect S'pore's image as a "squeaky clean" country and affect tourism.
and lots more reasons.
There may be a lot of us here who yearn to see the rare "turbulence" but it may not be a favourable scenario in our case. Singapore, compared to the rest of the world, is perceived very differently, albeit a safe state with obedient citizens. If mass riots happen in Seattle, life goes on as per normal but if it happens here, it would badly affect our international standing.
All this, no thanks to our kiasee govt. -
Response To IMF/WB Appeal:
22 CSO Representatives Will Be Allowed Entry15 Sep 2006
Singapore 2006 Press Statement.Based on input provided by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and World Bank (WB) this morning, the S2006 Organising Committee has reviewed the list of 27 CSO representatives whose entry was subject to interview by Singapore. The S2006 Organising Committee has decided to allow the entry of 22 of the 27 CSO representatives.
2 The Committee has also informed the IMF/WB that if the remaining five CSO representatives were to attempt to enter Singapore, they will be subject to interview and may not be allowed in.
3 The S2006 Organising Committee has conveyed its decision to the IMF/WB this evening. -
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
wahhh...finally give in liao.....so verdict our law hold no water is it? or double standards?
[b]Response To IMF/WB Appeal:
22 CSO Representatives Will Be Allowed Entry15 Sep 2006
Singapore 2006 Press Statement.
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After banning the 27 CSO members, and turning them away at the Immigration Counter, do we expect the 22 reconsidered CSO individuals to pay another air ticket - endure another 13 hours flight - just to return to SGP ?
If they do not return, SGP cannot be blamed for their subsequent non-participation even after the reconsideration.
Very intelligent move by the Singapore Authorities, but if they do turn up, will Singapore have to compensate these individuals for the new air tickets ? -
Originally posted by freakass:
'Many forumers in sgForums always find fault with the Singapore government wihout really thinking....' - or are the critics of such sgForumers doing their bit to support the Singapore Government - with their eyes blindfolded, ears stuffed, and mind hollowed ?
I realise that many forumers in sgForums always try to find fault with the Singapore government without really thinking...
This article is based on the views of ONE reporter. I urge all of you to keep in mind the [b]POWER OF THE PEN. Reporters are very well versed in this. Some reporters can write that they saw a Tarantula spider in their chicken rice when in fact they saw only a small fruit fly...
To those of you who agreed that those activists should be let in, wait till they start a riot just outside your house.... set a fire to your main door.... overturn your car... kill your family members during the chaos etc etc etc.... Well, the Singapore police may be able to put a stop to the riot, but there will definitely be damage done once a riot starts...
Please bloody use your brains to think first before you talk, people...[/b]
It has been a bar room joke that 'The Pen-is mightier than the Sword', and towards this end it has been the Singapore Government goal to have more educated, but unfortunately the educated are the ones that have created a situation where the 'pen-is deflated' and is the cause of the shrinkage in our population growth.
The Singapore Government continue to live in a paranoia of the events of the 1950s and 60s - where Singapore Society of the 60s is as alien as Vietnam society today is to many of us.
The Singapore Society of the 1960s were largely uneducated and unsophisticated, largely susceptible to Communist ideology.
Are the same set of circumstances serving as a backdrop of Singapore Society today, and make the situation to be in any way volatile ?
The World Bank-IMF 2006 venue at the Suntec City is like a fortress, secured with razor blade wires, and high link fence, and steel barricades that makes it even tougher than the new Changi Prison; or even Guantanamo.
With the entire Singapore Island practically locked down, and intensive Immigration screening at all immigration entry points, with all back-packers gathering points and domitories being monitored for would-be disguised CSO trouble-makers - can the feared scenario actually occur on the same scale as the WTO meeting in Hong Kong ?
Hong Kong is an Open Society, and not quite a Police State with a Police Force that is trained to be more tolerant to civil dissenters; surely our stronger Police Force in this well know Police State can do a better job in preventing any violent breakouts similar to that which occurred in Hong Kong ?
What was the cost of damage to Hong Kong from that WTO riots; and what is the cost of damage to our reputation and honor in not keeping the good faith of an agreement signed with the World Bank ? -
well.. who says that IMF can only be held in a purposeful and meaningful manner ONLY IF activists are allowed in the country? Just because violent protests AND activitsts had always been a part of previous IMF, doesn't mean that it is successful ONLY if this happens.
With regard to the swimming analogy, I would say that just because cavemen used to swim naked way before swimming costumes were invented, and cos u wanna wear a swimming costume (which serves NOTHING but protect your modesty which is really a hazy concept anyway), then u shouldnt swim.
I agree w the part that transparency on the part of the govt can help issues. However, if we allow activists in, who have given police VALID reasons to stop their entry in, simply because we are hosting the IMF, then I will look down on the government who allows some outside entity to compromise the safety in the country.
Come on, our country has had a reputation for being anal and uncompromising for a lONG long time. Is this surprising this happened? No it isnt. And you know it isnt because cynical Singaporeans are just waiting for something to foul up , so you can jump on it. AND you know what? Do you seriously think savvy politicians and world leaders are not aware of this when they decide to hold the IMF in Singapore?
Like chocoB says, this is a win-win situation for them, as far as they are concerned.