World Bank criticizes Singapore; Sg breached an agreement
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To all those i diots who support riots and against the decision made by SPF,
if a riot break out and property damaged...both foreign owned and sg owned...who pay? all those who agree with IMF should pay....not me coz i support SPF's decisioon...wise indeed! -
Wayang too much in the end shot himself in the foot
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no one is saying they support rioting, with thousands of police units on standby.. i fail to see how a group of 27 foreign activists is able to stage a riot that threaten to tear the country apart..dun we have enuff "spare forces" on standby to watch over these ppl 24/7 to make sure they are not in anyway inciting violence until the meeting is over?? the IMF/WB and probably the rest of the world is thinking the same thing.. the gahmen fail to see that and you probably too as well..Originally posted by pipipopo:To all those i diots who support riots and against the decision made by SPF,
if a riot break out and property damaged...both foreign owned and sg owned...who pay? all those who agree with IMF should pay....not me coz i support SPF's decisioon...wise indeed!
and turning the descision and letting the activists in now doesn;t really make much of a difference.. the first impression counts as they say.. -
I'm against riots, I'm against breaking laws, and causing harm to people.
But there is NOTHING wrong with a protest, or demonstration. It is RIDICULOUS that the govt sets aside a "PROTEST AREA" thats 8 x 8 meter square. Look at what the world thinks of us?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5348134.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5344442.stm
Don't you think that there is something SERIOUSLY wrong when u cannot make a unified stand to voice out concerns and disaggreements with govt policies in your own country? Why must Singaporeans run to Batam to carry out protests?
We're not talking about throwing bottles, flipping cars, burning flags. Its about the right to voice out. To be heard. We are lucky that our govt still does a good job, and has made little policies that is unacceptable (I still disagree with Integrated Resorts). But what if our govt in future becomes one that cares little for its people, or decides to make drugs legal or something? If we do not emphasize on our right to speak out and be heard, would Singaporeans of tomorrow be able to do that? After all of us have been taught to shut up and just live our own lives and mind our own business?
Its time to re-think. -
What is the use of trying to project Singapore image by spending 100 million dollar and by just one action ruin everything?
Singapore really trying a hard time pleasing the western countries.... -
while you think it is your right to hold protests on the streets,Originally posted by Shotgun:I'm against riots, I'm against breaking laws, and causing harm to people.
But there is NOTHING wrong with a protest, or demonstration. It is RIDICULOUS that the govt sets aside a "PROTEST AREA" thats 8 x 8 meter square. Look at what the world thinks of us?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5348134.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5344442.stm
Don't you think that there is something SERIOUSLY wrong when u cannot make a unified stand to voice out concerns and disaggreements with govt policies in your own country? Why must Singaporeans run to Batam to carry out protests?
We're not talking about throwing bottles, flipping cars, burning flags. Its about the right to voice out. To be heard. We are lucky that our govt still does a good job, and has made little policies that is unacceptable (I still disagree with Integrated Resorts). But what if our govt in future becomes one that cares little for its people, or decides to make drugs legal or something? If we do not emphasize on our right to speak out and be heard, would Singaporeans of tomorrow be able to do that? After all of us have been taught to shut up and just live our own lives and mind our own business?
Its time to re-think.
it is also other ppl's right to walk down the streets peacefully...
without encountering so noisy protest...
already the traffice on the roads is bad enuff...
without having to close a road or 2 juz so that some minority can hold their protest...
there's the speaker's corner...
speak out there... nobody is stopping you...
whether you can find an audience is another matter... -
I'm staying out of this.
Everyone should know what my stand is. I've said my piece a long while back, and Shotgun has said his and I think he makes the most sense, and coming from where he is, it's to be applauded. -
call me an ass but i support RIOT.
riot is not necessary mean causing hurt to others, it is an expression of showing the big bullies we are not push over. when something is not right, we have to fight for it! remember that's how singapore became independence when our ancestors fought shed blood n tears for driving the corrupted away? -
Of course they can walk down the streets peacefully. Nobody ever said that people cannot walk through a protest?
It might be a little slow, say like snails pace though? I didn't violate that person's rights by protesting at say Orchard road. He can still walk through orchard road if he wants. -
Yeah my feel of this whole IMF WB thingey is that it is way way too OVERRATED by the govt. Look back at germany hosting the WC months ago.Originally posted by zenden9:What is the use of trying to project Singapore image by spending 100 million dollar and by just one action ruin everything?
Singapore really trying a hard time pleasing the western countries....
World event...millions of visitors...
Result? I felt that it was handed professionally and that they did not try to wear a hat that is too big for them.
WB, IMF meeting...Govt trying too hard to impress and all looks a like a hoax.
We are trying to potray an unreal image.. All the preparations makes us look good? No i dont think so if its just a one time effort to "paint a beautiful picture."
Sometimes i wonder when i hear abt the IMF news on tv...Since when are we such a great city. Does the govt try to improve this and that here and there genuinely to improve our lives. A big fat NO here again..
Just hate all this show going on. Proud of that. Surely NO...
Lets see how the govt react after this whole 1 month long show is over. -
what ever singapore is doing now is to prevent what is happening to tawain now.
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This is ridiculous to say the least. 4 words for the way our beloved gov. is doing things...Big Mouth,Small Balls.
If you wanna take centre-stage in the world, please be ready to accept the cultures which others follow.Frankly...why go about all this yellow ribbon project bullshit to give ex-offenders another chance when they are not willing to give others a chance. I mean from my perspective is that, if you create trouble in a foreign land, tt's the problem between you and tt country. By debarring this group of activists from entry, the scenario is this:" You go to M'sia to buy chewing gum, the media there sees you, and recongnizes you as a S'porean as you drove there. But they film you buying, and then thats it. You eat the gum and spit out. Later when you cross the border, custom/police arrest you, say they saw on TV that you buys chewing gum which is not allowed." Makes sense? I certainly doubt it.
Anyway...just alittle curious, any of these accreditied activtist held protests in the little square they provide at Suntec. Why didn't the PM,Minister of Foreign Affairs go up and give a few words to the world press to highlight and help them understand out stand. It makes a helluva difference for some top dog in SPF with a couple of pips on the shoulders to talk to the masses and someone such as the PM or Minister of Foreign Affairs to come up to issue a public statement of clarification to educate the world press and help them see from "our" perspective.I mean to the world press, even if you're the commissioner of the police, so what? You're just the big fish in the small puddle of water, even if ask the CDF to make statement also liddat wat.
It is actually in my view totally inappoporiate for military and LE personal to give statements to the world press,as every word they say can and will be nit-picked and fogged to create new meaning.Look at Iraq, you don't see American or Coalition troops and officers below the grade of BG, unless they are the unit's spoke's person and have been given a script by higher up to say no more then this to the public. Can't that ang mo chap when given his 2 minutes of fame simply give the media 2 words to questions which they can nit-pick, fog up and re-interprest, the 2 words being "No Comments"which reflect professionalism in terms of OPSEC and also protects your own ass from being torn infront of the world!!!The lesser you say, the lesser can go wrong...don't you guys agree? -
The infamous Football Hooligans - who were identified by careful Police observation over time, they are now collared and are banned from being physically present at all major football matches.
The same would already be in the files of the various Police Forces of different nations, and they will have the identities of the trouble-makers and violent individuals, who make it their occupation to be at every IMF, World Bank, and WTO meetings.
How else did the Singapore Police Force know of the 27 persons to be banned, and subsequently decide that 22 out of the 27 are safe enough to be let in ?
Careful police work, and simple human intelligence in using one's brain would have save the Singapore Government the embarrassment.
With the amount of money that has been spent in making Suntec City a fortress that is more secure than the new Changi Prison, and with the Singapore Police Force already in every corner of Singapore even without the IMF-World Bank meeting, can we believe that violence will erupt so quickly ?
Unlike USA, Europe - or even Hong Kong, the Singapore Police Force has a free hand in monitoring all the bandwidths reserved for private telephone and messaging networks, can anything slip by the Singapore Police Force.
It would not happened in those countries mentioned, but Singapore Police arrested three activists by monitoring the mobile phone networks, tracked down those three persons and deported them.
There are more then enough manpower to keep track of any and all known Civil Society Activists that are allowed into Singapore - with those violent ones already locked out.
The Gurhkas were removed from guard duties at all Immigration Entry Points, to be replaced by our SAF personnels; and less Traffic Police are seen along the Express Ways.
The Gurhka resource has probably been directed at Suntec City, and they will be enough to guard the place from the JI or Al Qaeda crowd; while the regular Police need only to handle traffic, with the Riot Police watching out for the Civil Society Activists.
It is about time that we stop scaring ourselves with our own imagined and self-created nightmares.
If one believe there are ghosts, there will be ghosts even in the brightest hour of the day. -
This is as STUPID as it can get - I HOPE!Originally posted by Atobe:
After banning the 27 CSO members, and turning them away at the Immigration Counter, do we expect the 22 reconsidered CSO individuals to pay another air ticket - endure another 13 hours flight - just to return to SGP ?
If they do not return, SGP cannot be blamed for their subsequent non-participation even after the reconsideration.
Very intelligent move by the Singapore Authorities, but if they do turn up, will Singapore have to compensate these individuals for the new air tickets ?
Good God, they had 3 friggin years to think deep on how to handle these CSO whom they are obligated to allow into Singapore!!!
Instead, they sat on it till now, and royally skrew things up for themselves!
.... good job.....scholars and all... good job... -
Best if they go to Batam and hold their riots there instead. If they should come here, they will be shadowed by Gurkhas every step of the way.
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I can bet you the ever popular phrase will come out; "Let's move forward...." or "Let's move on..."Originally posted by Twice A Day:Yeah my feel of this whole IMF WB thingey is that it is way way too OVERRATED by the govt. Look back at germany hosting the WC months ago.
World event...millions of visitors...
Result? I felt that it was handed professionally and that they did not try to wear a hat that is too big for them.
WB, IMF meeting...Govt trying too hard to impress and all looks a like a hoax.
We are trying to potray an unreal image.. All the preparations makes us look good? No i dont think so if its just a one time effort to "paint a beautiful picture."
Sometimes i wonder when i hear abt the IMF news on tv...Since when are we such a great city. Does the govt try to improve this and that here and there genuinely to improve our lives. A big fat NO here again..
Just hate all this show going on. Proud of that. Surely NO...
Lets see how the govt react after this whole 1 month long show is over.
Our gov is so used to pushing things down our throats, they became so complacent that they thought the same can be applied to WB IMF... WRONG!
Thanks to their high handedness, now the world can see what sort of gov we are under.... a kind that doesn't let you SPEAK UP when they say the do!!! -
Oh I'm not sure about the last bit bro ....Originally posted by ShutterBug:I can bet you the ever popular phrase will come out; "Let's move forward...." or "Let's move on..."
Our gov is so used to pushing things down our throats, they became so complacent that they thought the same can be applied to WB IMF... WRONG!
Thanks to their high handedness, now the world can see what sort of gov we are under.... a kind that doesn't let you SPEAK UP when they say the do!!!
I mean .... what are we doing now ? ...
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Originally posted by SpecOps87:
My opinion is that THEY will always push some "top official" out to face the world fearing the complications of being asked tough questions they are not prepared to answer. Simple.
This is ridiculous to say the least. 4 words for the way our beloved gov. is doing things...Big Mouth,Small Balls.
If you wanna take centre-stage in the world, please be ready to accept the cultures which others follow.Frankly...why go about all this yellow ribbon project bullshit to give ex-offenders another chance when they are not willing to give others a chance. I mean from my perspective is that, if you create trouble in a foreign land, tt's the problem between you and tt country. By debarring this group of activists from entry, the scenario is this:" You go to M'sia to buy chewing gum, the media there sees you, and recongnizes you as a S'porean as you drove there. But they film you buying, and then thats it. You eat the gum and spit out. Later when you cross the border, custom/police arrest you, say they saw on TV that you buys chewing gum which is not allowed." Makes sense? I certainly doubt it.
Anyway...just alittle curious, any of these accreditied activtist held protests in the little square they provide at Suntec. [b]Why didn't the PM,Minister of Foreign Affairs go up and give a few words to the world press to highlight and help them understand out stand. It makes a helluva difference for some top dog in SPF with a couple of pips on the shoulders to talk to the masses and someone such as the PM or Minister of Foreign Affairs to come up to issue a public statement of clarification to educate the world press and help them see from "our" perspective.I mean to the world press, even if you're the commissioner of the police, so what? You're just the big fish in the small puddle of water, even if ask the CDF to make statement also liddat wat.
It is actually in my view totally inappoporiate for military and LE personal to give statements to the world press,as every word they say can and will be nit-picked and fogged to create new meaning.Look at Iraq, you don't see American or Coalition troops and officers below the grade of BG, unless they are the unit's spoke's person and have been given a script by higher up to say no more then this to the public. Can't that ang mo chap when given his 2 minutes of fame simply give the media 2 words to questions which they can nit-pick, fog up and re-interprest, the 2 words being "No Comments"which reflect professionalism in terms of OPSEC and also protects your own ass from being torn infront of the world!!!The lesser you say, the lesser can go wrong...don't you guys agree?[/b]
Anything concerning their policies, they never elaborate in any details - as if NO ONE has any rights to question them? But if they wanna go global / international, they have to act like global or international players - not like some small town or village Mafia. -
this is something the government should realize and learn. the little square from the little dot does not fit the world stage! they need to change their mindset.Originally posted by SpecOps87:This is ridiculous to say the least. 4 words for the way our beloved gov. is doing things...Big Mouth,Small Balls.
If you wanna take centre-stage in the world, please be ready to accept the cultures which others follow.Frankly...why go about all this yellow ribbon project bullshit to give ex-offenders another chance when they are not willing to give others a chance. I mean from my perspective is that, if you create trouble in a foreign land, tt's the problem between you and tt country. By debarring this group of activists from entry, the scenario is this:" You go to M'sia to buy chewing gum, the media there sees you, and recongnizes you as a S'porean as you drove there. But they film you buying, and then thats it. You eat the gum and spit out. Later when you cross the border, custom/police arrest you, say they saw on TV that you buys chewing gum which is not allowed." Makes sense? I certainly doubt it.
Anyway...just alittle curious, any of these accreditied activtist held protests in the little square they provide at Suntec. Why didn't the PM,Minister of Foreign Affairs go up and give a few words to the world press to highlight and help them understand out stand. It makes a helluva difference for some top dog in SPF with a couple of pips on the shoulders to talk to the masses and someone such as the PM or Minister of Foreign Affairs to come up to issue a public statement of clarification to educate the world press and help them see from "our" perspective.I mean to the world press, even if you're the commissioner of the police, so what? You're just the big fish in the small puddle of water, even if ask the CDF to make statement also liddat wat. -
Now why would anyone want to send their ministers to face a bunch of angry protestors?
Why? -
Fully agree!!!Originally posted by Atobe:'Many forumers in sgForums always find fault with the Singapore government wihout really thinking....' - or are the critics of such sgForumers doing their bit to support the Singapore Government - with their eyes blindfolded, ears stuffed, and mind hollowed ?
It has been a bar room joke that 'The Pen-is mightier than the Sword', and towards this end it has been the Singapore Government goal to have more educated, but unfortunately the educated are the ones that have created a situation where the 'pen-is deflated' and is the cause of the shrinkage in our population growth.
The Singapore Government continue to live in a paranoia of the events of the 1950s and 60s - where Singapore Society of the 60s is as alien as Vietnam society today is to many of us.
The Singapore Society of the 1960s were largely uneducated and unsophisticated, largely susceptible to Communist ideology.
Are the same set of circumstances serving as a backdrop of Singapore Society today, and make the situation to be in any way volatile ?
The World Bank-IMF 2006 venue at the Suntec City is like a fortress, secured with razor blade wires, and high link fence, and steel barricades that makes it even tougher than the new Changi Prison; or even Guantanamo.
With the entire Singapore Island practically locked down, and intensive Immigration screening at all immigration entry points, with all back-packers gathering points and domitories being monitored for would-be disguised CSO trouble-makers - can the feared scenario actually occur on the same scale as the WTO meeting in Hong Kong ?
Hong Kong is an Open Society, and not quite a Police State with a Police Force that is trained to be more tolerant to civil dissenters; surely our stronger Police Force in this well know Police State can do a better job in preventing any violent breakouts similar to that which occurred in Hong Kong ?
What was the cost of damage to Hong Kong from that WTO riots; and what is the cost of damage to our reputation and honor in not keeping the good faith of an agreement signed with the World Bank ?
I won't give a dam to freakass! An idiot -
Originally posted by Lowclassman:Fully agree!!!
I won't give a dam to freakass! An idiot -
x 2!Originally posted by Lowclassman:Fully agree!!!
I won't give a dam to freakass! An idiot -
then Singapore shouldn't even host the IMF event...if the govt thinks it can apply its 'uniquely singapore' style of treatment like it does to suppress its citizens and micro manage every speckle of details to the whole wide world, they must soberly wake up. singapore is not there yet or fit enough to change the tradition or how these events are being held. If protestors are part and parcel of the game and they are there for the sake of making their voices heard and engaging decision makers, would barring them discourage further protests in the future even if it was held at a different venue? those highly paid but inexperienced elites organizing this 4 million 'smiles' campaign must be so high up their horse thinking that Singapore is such an exemplary model of a fine city, a great democracy, a vibrant place that we must lay down the red carpet and sweep all skeletons underneath... but think about it, even the supposed parliament sessions today is like a staged event where the ruling party have the control and all final say. Debate all they want, you can just see ministers dozing off because whatever noise is being made, the outcomes are already determined. they must be thinking all other discussions in the world are held this way? But what's the use of a mock up parliament farce? E.g. where's all the excitment of watching a parliament today then say in the 80's with JBJ? alas, he was last spotted in some documentaries as a frail old man with a sore voice peddling books by the MRT station because he got sued till his pants dropped...Originally posted by pipipopo:To all those i diots who support riots and against the decision made by SPF,
if a riot break out and property damaged...both foreign owned and sg owned...who pay? all those who agree with IMF should pay....not me coz i support SPF's decisioon...wise indeed! -
I dun get your point?? The protest in Taiwan now and "would be protest here" is all a different story and for a different reason.Originally posted by Prophecy_Master:what ever singapore is doing now is to prevent what is happening to tawain now.