Pope's need more God's Guidance?
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Muslim anger grows at Pope speechFriday, 15 September 2006,
Speech by PopeMEETING WITH THE REPRESENTATIVES OF SCIENCE LECTURE OF THE HOLY FATHER Aula Magna of the University of Regensburg Tuesday, 12 September 2006 ''Faith, Reason and the University Memories and Reflections.''
--NOTE: The Holy Father intends to supply a subsequent version of this text, complete with footnotes. The present text must therefore be considered provisional.
The Pope said:'
paragraphing by lionnoisy,not originalIn the seventh conversation (*4V8,>4H - controversy) edited by Professor Khoury, the emperor touches on the theme of the holy war. The emperor must have known that surah 2, 256 reads: "There is no compulsion in religion". According to the experts, this is one of the suras of the early period, when Mohammed was still powerless and under threat.
2.quoted fr BBC
But naturally the emperor also knew the instructions, developed later and recorded in the Qur'an, concerning holy war. Without descending to details, such as the difference in treatment accorded to those who have the "Book" and the "infidels", he addresses his interlocutor with a startling brusqueness on the central question about the relationship between religion and violence in general, saying: "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached".
copy the speech to Words file ,then search for key words
and u will find the relevant paragraph.
The emperor, after having expressed himself so forcefully, goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. "God", he says, "is not pleased by blood - and not acting reasonably (F×< 8`(T) is contrary to God's nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats... To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death...".Stressing that they were not his own words, he quoted Emperor Manual II Paleologos of the Byzantine Empire, the Orthodox Christian empire which had its capital in what is now the Turkish city of Istanbul.
3.In this era,we need more wisdoms and carefulness
The emperor's words were, he said: "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
Benedict said "I quote" twice to stress the words were not his and added that violence was "incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul".
'Angry and hurt'
Pakistan's parliament passed a resolution demanding that the Pope retract his remarks "in the interest of harmony between religions".
"The derogatory remarks of the Pope about the philosophy of jihad and Prophet Mohammed have injured sentiments across the Muslim world and pose the danger of spreading acrimony among the religions," the AFP news agency quoted the resolution by the country's national assembly as saying.
not to arise misunderstanding . -
is it the latest fad to say politically incorrect speeches now? -
cest la vie~!
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There's only one good book in the world.
There's only one book in the world which is both good and original. The part that is good is not original and the part that is original is not good. -
Where are you leading us with this 'fence sitting' statement ?Originally posted by googoomuck:There's only one good book in the world.
There's only one book in the world which is both good and original. The part that is good is not original and the part that is original is not good.
Which 'single' book in the world are you referring to that is both good and original ?
Which part of that Book can be 'good and not original', and which part can be found to be 'original but not good' ?
Whichever Holy Book you are referring to, a simple statement can be said and that is: 'no God approves any killing of another person by using God's name.'
No Holy Book can be sanctified to be holy, if it preaches violence and death to those who do not believe in - or question - its position.
No one can claim to be holy, if he/she can dictate and approve the death and destruction of any single person or community in the name of his God.
Period. -
The two books are the Holy Bible and the Koran.Originally posted by Atobe:Where are you leading us with this 'fence sitting' statement ?
Which 'single' book in the world are you referring to that is both good and original ?
Which part of that Book can be 'good and not original', and which part can be found to be 'original but not good' ?
Whichever Holy Book you are referring to, a simple statement can be said and that is: 'no God approves any killing of another person by using God's name.'
No Holy Book can be sanctified to be holy, if it preaches violence and death to those who do not believe in - or question - its position.
No one can claim to be holy, if he/she can dictate and approve the death and destruction of any single person or community in the name of his God.
Period.
It is subjective. One has to read both books to form his own opinion. -
Saturday,2006 September 16, 8:12 PM ,Pope apologises for offending Muslims
Pope Benedict XVI apologised for causing any offence to Muslims amid growing fury across the Islamic world over a speech he made implicitly linking Islam and violence.
2.Oh,Father,give me more wisdoms in this crazy world.
"The Holy Father is extremely sorry that certain passages of his speech appeared offensive to Muslim believers and were interpreted in a way that does not correspond in any way to his intentions," said the Vatican's new secretary of state, Tarcisio Bertone.
"The pope is unequivocally in favour of dialogue between religions and cultures," Bertone said Saturday, in his first official statement since taking office on Friday.
Anger with Pope Benedict XVI had intensified across the Muslim world Saturday, uniting Sunni Islam's leading authority, Malaysia's moderate premier and Afghanistan's extremist Taliban militia.
The Vatican said the pope's comments on Thursday linking Islam and violence had been misinterpreted, but Muslim leaders described them as offensive with many demanding an immediate apology.
Protests were held Friday after weekly prayers, as the pontiff's remarks drew condemnation from lawmakers, politicans, lawyers, clerics and community leaders in many Muslim and some Western countries.
The head of Cairo's Al-Azhar university Sheikh Mohammed Sayyed Tantawi said Saturday the pontiff's comments "betray a clear ignorance of Islam and attribute to the faith things which have nothing to do with it".
Sheikh Mohammed, Sunni Islam's top authority, said the pope's remarks "do nothing to further dialogue between world religions and civilizations".
Malaysian Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi, an Islamic scholar who chairs the 57-nation Organisation of the Islamic Conference, said the pope should apologise.
"The pope must not take lightly the spread of outrage that has been created," Abdullah said. "The Vatican must now take full responsibility over the matter and carry out the necessary steps to rectify the mistake."
Afghanistan's Taliban militia, which sheltered the Al-Qaeda network before the September 11 attacks, said the pope's comments showed the Christian West was waging war against Muslims.
"We strongly condemn it," Taliban spokesman Mohammed Hanif told AFP.
In Germany last week, the German-born leader of more than one billion Roman Catholics implicitly denounced links between Islam and violence, particularly with reference to jihad, or "holy war".
The pope also quoted a 14th-century Byzantine emperor who said innovations introduced by the Prophet Mohammed were "evil and inhuman".
Papal spokesman Federico Lombardi said Benedict had meant no offence with his speech which was a rejection of violence motivated by religion. The explanation, however, failed to quell Muslim anger.
In Somalia, a hardline Muslim cleric linked to the country's powerful Islamist movement went so far as to call on Muslims to "hunt down" and kill the pontiff for his "barbaric" statement.
Palestinian security officials said Molotov cocktails were thrown at two churches in the West Bank town of Nablus on Saturday, a day after four small makeshift bombs exploded near the oldest Christian church in Gaza City.
The president of the central council of Muslims in Germany, Ayyub Axel Koehler, warned of further outbreaks of violence and urged the pope to issue a clarification.
"I have a high opinion of the pope but I cannot believe that this was just a blunder," Koehler said.
Iran joined the calls for a papal apology, saying his remarks could only serve to ignite religious discord.
"These comments are at odds with his position as a leader of one of the divine religions... and are a great mistake," said foreign ministry spokesman Mohammad Ali Hosseini.
The Pakistani parliament unanimously passed a resolution demanding the pope retract his remarks, while in neighbouring India the chairman of the National Commission for Minorities, Hamid Ansari, said the pope's language resembled that of his 12th century counterpart "who ordered the Crusades".
The Muslim Brotherhood, the leading opposition force in the Egyptian parliament, said the pope's speech was more serious than cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammed, whose publication in European newspapers sparked Muslim anger and violent protests this year.
"I foresee an extreme reaction to the pope's words, which harm Islam more than the cartoons because they come from a leader who represents millions of people," said a senior official from the group, Abdel Moneim Abul Futuh.
The pope's speech also caused anger in Turkey, the destination of his next foreign trip in November.
The head of Turkey's state-run religious affairs directorate, Ali Bardakoglu, described the remarks as "full of enmity" and said he the trip should be cancelled.
The pope has received some support in the West notably from German Chancellor Angela Merkel, but an editorial in the New York Times was highly critical.
"The world listens carefully to the words of any pope," The Times said. "And it is tragic and dangerous when one sows pain, either deliberately or carelessly. He needs to offer a deep and persuasive apology, demonstrating that words can also heal."
Lombardi said it was not yet clear if the pope would address the controversy when he leads the Angelus blessing from his summer residence in Castel Gandolfo on Sunday. -
The POPE needs to either clarify or apologise....
not doing so only let people think he is so full of himself and not able to admit mistakes...pride perhaps?
if he indeed clarifies and apologises, it shows his empathy and wisdom in this modern world....
The world is looking.... 
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The Pope is known to hold anti-Islamic views and this recent statement is not surprising. He has opposed the entry of Turkey into the EU on the grounds that it is an Islamic nation. He alluded to the wars of the Ottoman empire against Christian Byzantine Europe on that occasion:
"In a widely cited interview in Le Figaro last year, then Cardinal Ratzinger made clear his view on the hotly contested political debate "over allowing Turkey into the European Union," reports IslamOnline. He was opposed to Ankara joining the EU "on the grounds that it is a Muslim nation."
The cardinal publicly cautioned Europe against admitting Islamic Turkey and wrote to bishops the reason for his stand:
The roots that have formed Europe, that have permitted the formation of this continent, are those of Christianity. Turkey has always represented another continent, in permanent contrast with Europe. There were the [old Ottoman Empire] wars against the Byzantine Empire, the fall of Constantinople, the Balkan wars, and the threat against Vienna and Austria. It would be an error to equate the two continents...Turkey is founded upon Islam...Thus the entry of Turkey into the EU would be anti-historical."
(http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0422/dailyUpdate.html)
Obviously the Pope has completely forgotten the massacres committed in the name of his church against the Muslims during the crusades and is silent on the ongoing oppression of the Palestinian Muslims today. -
The Holy Father's speech has been taken out of context by some of the protestors. However, the way that quote was used in the speech is still suspect IMO - the potential to be misinterpreted was identified.
The Holy Father has already issued an apology (though not a personal one, it's more than can be said of any efforts of the media parties involved in the Danish cartoon uproar). The Vatican can attempt further reconciliary action, but I fear that they'll be overlooked by the militant types (such as the ones from Somalia in the article) - just as they have done with the rest of the original speech.
And it's these few blood-baying types are the ones who live out the violent image that the rest of the Muslim world dissociates itself from, the words which other Muslim leaders warn demonstrate ignorance and xenophobia.
In increasingly-secular Western society, the actions of these few - destroying innocent lives and historical sites, things far closer to the hearts of non-religious people than religious discourse - sow discord and suspicion far more effectively than the words of the the Holy Father.
Any further reconciliary action (which I hope will be taken, in the interest of peace) is going to require the co-operation of both Catholic and Muslim leaders, so that it reaches the masses - and then we can only hope that it'll be widely accepted and the matter goes into history with less bloodshed than feared.
On a personal note, I still don't know what jihad is actually about. Someone better informed on the philosophy, kindly elaborate. Cheers. -
The solution to world's problems - obey god's commands and faith in god.Originally posted by Kuali Baba:The Holy Father's speech has been taken out of context by some of the protestors. However, the way that quote was used in the speech is still suspect IMO - the potential to be misinterpreted was identified.
The Holy Father has already issued an apology (though not a personal one, it's more than can be said of any efforts of the media parties involved in the Danish cartoon uproar). The Vatican can attempt further reconciliary action, but I fear that they'll be overlooked by the militant types (such as the ones from Somalia in the article) - just as they have done with the rest of the original speech.
And it's these few blood-baying types are the ones who live out the violent image that the rest of the Muslim world dissociates itself from, the words which other Muslim leaders warn demonstrate ignorance and xenophobia.
In increasingly-secular Western society, the actions of these few - destroying innocent lives and historical sites, things far closer to the hearts of non-religious people than religious discourse - sow discord and suspicion far more effectively than the words of the the Holy Father.
Any further reconciliary action (which I hope will be taken, in the interest of peace) is going to require the co-operation of both Catholic and Muslim leaders, so that it reaches the masses - and then we can only hope that it'll be widely accepted and the matter goes into history with less bloodshed than feared.
On a personal note, I still don't know what jihad is actually about. Someone better informed on the philosophy, kindly elaborate. Cheers.
If people could live up to these simple rule, there is no need to fear any onslaught in whatever form ..be it terrorism or political persecution.
Just pray for all. -
hopefully, whatever reply's or reconciliary actions by the Pope get publicised in the media as do the blunder itself.
Only through the media can the whole world knows that the Pope does not mean it and whatever he said might be misinterpreted.
Without the help of the media, nobody knows if an apology is given and that will not pacify the people and militants and extremist can take that as an excuse to further their evil ways. -
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Indirect still must complain
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The Pope's earlier opposition to Turkey's entry into the EU and his reasons for doing so makes it difficult for many people to believe his sincerity. Unlike the previous Pope, he has not shown true willingness to cross the religious divide and work towards greater understanding between two of the world's greatest religions. IMO. these two incidents only serve to highlight his personal discrimination against Muslims and their faith.Originally posted by Kuali Baba:The Holy Father's speech has been taken out of context by some of the protestors. However, the way that quote was used in the speech is still suspect IMO - the potential to be misinterpreted was identified. -
But the statement stopped short of the apology demanded by Islamic leaders around the globe, and anger among Muslims remained intense. Palestinians attacked five churches in the West Bank and Gaza over the pope's remarks Tuesday in a speech to university professors in his native Germany.
Just to quote from the link....SO it seems that the pope do not even care about the life and death of its people....if churches are attacked and the followers injured,hurt or dead....what does it show on the person at the top???
Cuz, he just cannot be humble enough to just admit he said wrong and apologise? i dont get it....
its just like your boss, or the top management of a company, where they just cannot put down their face to say sorry when indeed they did the wrong things sometimes....what do you all think?
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*correction: vienna is the capital of austria, not a seperate entity. maybe he forgot that his roman catholic fraction were at loggerheads with the eastern-orthodox byzantines and that the pope of that time simply refused to really help the byzantines resist the ottoman invasion, even after constantinople was sacked and rendered defenseless by the venetians earlierOriginally posted by oxford mushroom:The Pope is known to hold anti-Islamic views and this recent statement is not surprising. He has opposed the entry of Turkey into the EU on the grounds that it is an Islamic nation. He alluded to the wars of the Ottoman empire against Christian Byzantine Europe on that occasion:
"In a widely cited interview in Le Figaro last year, then Cardinal Ratzinger made clear his view on the hotly contested political debate "over allowing Turkey into the European Union," reports IslamOnline. He was opposed to Ankara joining the EU "on the grounds that it is a Muslim nation."
The cardinal publicly cautioned Europe against admitting Islamic Turkey and wrote to bishops the reason for his stand:
The roots that have formed Europe, that have permitted the formation of this continent, are those of Christianity. Turkey has always represented another continent, in permanent contrast with Europe. There were the [old Ottoman Empire] wars against the Byzantine Empire, the fall of Constantinople, the Balkan wars, and the threat against Vienna and Austria. It would be an error to equate the two continents...Turkey is founded upon Islam...Thus the entry of Turkey into the EU would be anti-historical."
(http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0422/dailyUpdate.html)
Obviously the Pope has completely forgotten the massacres committed in the name of his church against the Muslims during the crusades and is silent on the ongoing oppression of the Palestinian Muslims today. -
NOTICE:
The article has been updated since I first posted the link. His Holiness has apologised to those he has offended:
CASTEL GANDOLFO, Italy - Pope Benedict XVI said Sunday that he was "deeply sorry" about the angry reaction to his recent remarks about Islam, which he said came from a text that didn't reflect his personal opinion.
"These (words) were in fact a quotation from a Medieval text which do not in any way express my personal thought," Benedict told pilgrims at his summer palace outside Rome.
The pope sparked the controversy when, in a speech Tuesday to university professors during a pilgrimage to his native Germany, he cited the words of a Byzantine emperor who characterized some of the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad, Islam's founder, as "evil and inhuman."
"At this time I wish also to add that I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address at the University of Regensburg, which were considered offensive to the sensibility of Muslims," the pope said Sunday.
Benedict noted that the Vatican's secretary of state had issued a statement Saturday trying to explain the pope's speech.
"I hope that this serves to appease hearts and to clarify the true meaning of my address, which in its totality was and is an invitation to frank and sincere dialogue, with great mutual respect," Benedict said.
Security was high at the summer palace before Benedict spoke to the crowd. Police patted down many of the faithful, confiscating umbrellas with metal tips and bottles of liquids.
Sharpshooters kept watch from a balcony and other officers, dressed like tourists, monitored the crowd with video cameras.
Still, Benedict looked relaxed when he greeted pilgrims standing in pouring rain in the palace courtyard. He smiled and said he hoped it would be better weather on Wednesday for his general audience, when he planned to recount more of his pilgrimage to the faithful.
The Vatican statement Saturday afternoon said that the pope "sincerely regrets" that Muslims were offended, but stopped short of the apology demanded by many Muslim leaders in the Middle East and Asia.
Mahmoud Ashour, the former deputy of Cairo's Al-Azhar Mosque, the Sunni Arab world's most powerful institution, told Al-Arabiya TV immediately after the pope's speech that, "It is not enough. He should apologize because he insulted the beliefs of Islam. He must apologize in a frank way and say he made a mistake."
But the leader of Egypt's largest Islamic political group, the Muslim Brotherhood, told The Associated Press Sunday that "while anger over the Pope's remarks is necessary, it shouldn't last for long."
"While he is the head of the Catholic Church in the world, many Europeans are not following (the church) so what he said won't influence them. Our relations with Christians should remain good, civilized and cooperative," Mohammed Mahdi Akef said.
The Muslim Brotherhood is formally banned in Egypt.
In the West Bank, two churches were set afire as anger over the pope's comments grew throughout the Palestinian areas.
In the town of Tulkarem, a 170-year-old stone church built 170 years ago was torched before dawn and its interior was destroyed, local Christian officials said. In the village of Tubas, a small church was attacked with firebombs and partially burned, Christians said. Neither church is Catholic, the officials said.
Palestinian Muslims hurled firebombs and opened fire at five churches in the West Bank and Gaza Strip Saturday to protest the Pope's comments, sparking concerns of a rift between Palestinian Muslims and Christians.
Italy's interior minister said Sunday that the tensions over Benedict's remarks wouldn't result in any further heightening of security concerns.
"I don't believe that for Italy the concern will rise," Giuliano Amato told Italian state radio.
Amato noted that suspected terrorist cells under surveillance inside the country were considered to be focused on targets "outside of Italy."
The interior ministry includes state police and civilian intelligence services.
Some Muslims have accepted the pope's statement of regret. Senior Indian Muslim clerics said it will "help in building good relations between Muslims and Christians" and asked their supporters to call off planned protests.
Turkey's foreign minister said Sunday that the pope was still expected to visit in November in what would be his first trip to a Muslim nation.
"From our point of view, there is no change," Abdullah Gul told reporters before departing for a trip to the United States.
Morocco recalled its ambassador to the Holy See to protest the "offensive" remarks, and Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono described the pope's reference as "unwise and inappropriate," the Kompas daily reported.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060917/ap_on_re_eu/pope_muslims -
Yup, saw the article in CNA too.
Hopefully, the muslims could be pacified, then it will also show out their magnamnimity.
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Muhammad was not only a religious leader, but a military leader who waged war against his enemies as soon as he had the means. Following his example, Muslims quickly carved out an enormous empire. And what ended Muslim expansion was not a change of heart or doctrine, but by countries with military might.
The doctrine of jihad remains alive to this day.
This means that people should not accept the sweeping claim that Islam is a religion of peace. There's just too much contrary evidence. -
i thot the Pope is infallible?
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That is also true of Christianity during the Middle Ages and the Crusades and even Buddhism versus Hinduism has been used as the banner under which militants fight and kill each other in Sri Lanka.Originally posted by googoomuck:Muhammad was not only a religious leader, but a military leader who waged war against his enemies as soon as he had the means. Following his example, Muslims quickly carved out an enormous empire. And what ended Muslim expansion was not a change of heart or doctrine, but by countries with military might.
The doctrine of jihad remains alive to this day.
This means that people should not accept the sweeping claim that Islam is a religion of peace. There's just too much contrary evidence.
Making denigrative statements against Islam and its Prophet only serves to inflame passions and may well incite strife and violence, as we have already seen. In fact, if the Pope had been a Singaporean making those same statements, he might well be investigated under the Sedition Act. -
i'm not sure why anyone should be held hostage for some less than appropriate remarks about islam. muslims have to prove that they are not violent, what others say have little bearing....many muslim clerics have gone on about how other religions are such and such but do you see irrational protests? nada.....as usual, no thief likes to be branded as one even when caught red-handed...
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Pope has made a stupid mistake.
And religions (any and all religions), should be FORGIVING and TRULY compassionate.
Otherwise, violent reactions and believes, cancels each other out. -
Fair opinion!Originally posted by countdracula:i'm not sure why anyone should be held hostage for some less than appropriate remarks about islam. muslims have to prove that they are not violent, what others say have little bearing....many muslim clerics have gone on about how other religions are such and such but do you see irrational protests? nada.....as usual, no thief likes to be branded as one even when caught red-handed...