Singaporeans support for police ban of violent activists
-
Yes, 'every sovereign nation has the right to refuse entry to any individuals deemed to be undesirable', unfortunately for Singapore - the 27 who were banned were already acreditted by the World Bank to be participants in the current WB-IMF convention in Singapore.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Every sovereign nation has the right to refuse entry to any individuals deemed to be undesirable. The authorities has bowed to pressure to allow 22 of the 27 in but I am sure they will have a whole continent of police shadowing them if they should come.
More importantly, the Singapore Government had contracturally agreed in writing to allow all acreditted Civil Society Activists to participate.
In the first place, it is only 27 activists that surely can be easily 'shepherded' with the large contingent of Gurkhas, SPF Riot Squad, SPF Swat Team, the regular uniformed Police, the secretive plain clothed ISD and Detectives ?
Even the resources of SingTel and StarHubs have been mobilised to monitor the telephone and text messages of these Activists - so as to eavesdrop on any plans for any ratching up of demonstrative public protests.
Why would the brilliant Elite lead Singapore into such an embarrassing situation, if not to use this as an exercise to reinforce the PAP's no-nonsense image in even daring to challenge the World Bank and IMF community - all for the sake of local political consumption, and to cow an already submissive population ?
You have confirmed what I had written before that there are two groups of activists - one group that formally participate, and the other being the more vocally and physically demonstrative informal group.
Along with many Singaporeans, I understand and support the government's reluctance to allow in activists who have been involved in violent protests. Many of these NGOs adopt a dual policy of having accredited activists voicing their protests in the convention halls whilst other members put up violent protests in the streets outside. That is one reason why Singapore will not allow public protests outdoors. Their leaders put on a suit as an accredited CSO participant indoors whilst coordinating the hooligans smashing windows outside.
After so many incidents at all the past venues of meetings conducted by the World Bank, IMF and the WTO, surely the Police Forces of every country will already be sharing the files and dossiers of every activists - passive and pro-active members ?
Why would the Singapore Government banned and then rescind the ban on 22 out of the 27 activists - if they had access to such help from the close assistance that our 'supposedly reputable' Police Force would have with the Police Forces of other countries ?
The decision to rectify the entire fiasco was placed with a low level S2006 Committee - who was tasked to plan and prepare for this WB-IMF Meeting in Singapore. The Straits Times reported that the S2006 Committee reviewed the application of the activists, and rescinded the ban on the 22 activists.
This begs the question as to - why was the buck passed to a low level Committee that was initially tasked to prepare the infrastructure for the successful outcome of this Meet ?
If the intelligent authorities had the intelligence, why did they ban all the 27 activists in the first place, and subsequently relented on 22 out of the 27 persons ?
The authorities have intelligence as to known troublemakers (the blacklisted activitsts form a very small proportion of the whole) and are fully justified in attempting to block them from entering the nation. If they are allowed in, the police should take all measures necessary, including lethal force, to prevent a recurrence of the riots in Hong Kong and Seattle.
This entire fiasco could have been avoided, but instead it left behind a bad taste after the sparkling preparations that scored high points with the leaders and their supporting staff from the World Bank and the IMF.
These WB-IMF-WTO leading figures are personalities that have left the rough world of Politics, and wield political powers - with a lighter touch but no less in weight - in their quiet chambers, with the leisure of time to deliberate on matters, and to listen to all alternative views.
They speak in soft, deliberate and measured tones, with words carefully chosen without the political bluster, and are prepared to engage those who will offer reasons, facts, and principles.
Can our Elites in the Singapore Government do the same, instead of walling themselves and Singaporeans with their imagined bellicose ghosts of the 1960s ?
The entire exercise is nothing more than 'political brinkmanship', pushing the PAP's views concerning 'Public Demonstrations', and climbing down once the message has been put across for the consumption by interested Singaporeans.
Is this kind of Politiking not similar to the 'political brinkmanship' often seen from North Korean President Kim Jong Il - in his insistence on exercising his rights to political and national sovereignty despite all previously contracted agreements ?
What can we expect from a Closed Society led by self-assuming Elites, who are paranoid of losing the political ground ? -
I'm sorry, I'm not sure I see this as bright, but perhaps an indication that she knows what the "popular" opinion on this issue is, or that she's drank a bit too much of the wrong sort of "water" ...Originally posted by ShutterBug:Yesterday while out visiting relations, I asked a young girl of 18 who's studying in Ngee Ann, what she thinks of this whole IMF fiasco. Her reply to me shows how astoundingly bright and atuned the educated youngs are these days!
Her reply;"They are reluctant to let in those activist for fear that if peaceful demonstrations and protests is indeed possible (which there is no doubt it is possible since it will be held in an 8x8m indoor area), Singaporeans may also want to voice their displeasures! Furthermore, our government has always been afraid of being asked questions about their policies, and they are so used to us swallowing what they dish out they now made a mistake by expecting same of WB IMF. Hope they learn a lesson!"
Clearly, our gov is losing the favor of the new generations.
if people are starting to think that demonstrations and protests, peaceful or otherwise, is a good and indeed proper avenue to voice displeasure, then something is seriously wrong, and we're not moving forward in the right direction. It achieves nothing, but disrupts the everyday running of the society and provides fodder for tabloid politics, look at taiwan, or hong kong, why do you think lots of large financial institutions are deserting HK for Singapore ? ... you think it's really the bad air? ... or the half a million men demonstrations ? other countries may be doing it, but does it mean we have to blindly ape other countries on this ? ... (oh yeah, perhaps Singaporeans are one and the same, regardless of political stripes, we all copy things from other countries all too well, eh ? ... )
not happy about things ? ... write a blog, start an alternative cyber newspaper, keep issues alive till the elections ... and of course, there are these "veterans" active in our very own speaker's corner (and don't tell me sgforums' small potatoes and doesn't count either, else some people must have been either very stupid, or simply venting for the fun of it eh ? ...) do you not notice the tone in the singaporean cyberspace ? ... is that not "questioning", "speaking out" ... or just "hot air" ? ...
and that's something the opposition singularly failed to do. Instead of dissecting specific issues, most chose to whip the crowd in the last elections, I have no taste for the dramatics, nor am I inspired by "motivational" speakers (certainly not someone who can loose forms). Protests, slogans and hungerstrikes do nothing. There are plenty of things we can pick up from the taiwanese, business acumen, "can do" spirit, their politics is NOT a good model to learn from ....
-
I see that ditzy has posted a reply in this thread
-
At this point in time, it has become significantly apparent, that subtle medthods like blogging, and letters to the paper's forum pages to voice opinions and or displeasures, are no longer an effective avenue.Originally posted by Fatum:I'm sorry, I'm not sure I see this as bright, but perhaps an indication that she knows what the "popular" opinion on this issue is, or that she's drank a bit too much of the wrong sort of "water" ...
if people are starting to think that demonstrations and protests, peaceful or otherwise, is a good and indeed proper avenue to voice displeasure, then something is seriously wrong, and we're not moving forward in the right direction. It achieves nothing, but disrupts the everyday running of the society and provides fodder for tabloid politics, look at taiwan, or hong kong, why do you think lots of large financial institutions are deserting HK for Singapore ? ... you think it's really the bad air? ... or the half a million men demonstrations ? other countries may be doing it, but does it mean we have to blindly ape other countries on this ? ... (oh yeah, perhaps Singaporeans are one and the same, regardless of political stripes, we all copy things from other countries all too well, eh ? ... )
not happy about things ? ... write a blog, start an alternative cyber newspaper, keep issues alive till the elections ... and of course, there are these "veterans" active in our very own speaker's corner (and don't tell me sgforums' small potatoes and doesn't count either, else some people must have been either very stupid, or simply venting for the fun of it eh ? ...) do you not notice the tone in the singaporean cyberspace ? ... is that not "questioning", "speaking out" ... or just "hot air" ? ...
and that's something the opposition singularly failed to do. Instead of dissecting specific issues, most chose to whip the crowd in the last elections, I have no taste for the dramatics, nor am I inspired by "motivational" speakers (certainly not someone who can loose forms). Protests, slogans and hungerstrikes do nothing. There are plenty of things we can pick up from the taiwanese, business acumen, "can do" spirit, their politics is NOT a good model to learn from ....
As it has been LOUDLY obvious these few days, that THEY do not allow people a voice.
And since when, did they EVER listened to anything the people wrote through those common avenues?
I hope the whole world begins questioning our gov's ways of keeping us all like Silent Lambs. -
The police are not paid to contravened our constitutional rights of free speech and to protest.
They are not paid to deny entry of those activists. They are paid to stop violent protests if any.
They cannot do their jobs that Wong Kan Seng should resign. -
Originally posted by Fatum:
'Nu-water' can make one feel a little heady, and it can be gut wrenching if you think too much about it after having drunk it - (if I may contribute to your comments on Shutterbug's post).
I'm sorry, I'm not sure I see this as bright, but perhaps an indication that she knows what the "popular" opinion on this issue is, or that she's drank a bit too much of the wrong sort of "water" ...
Are we moving in any direction, when after forty-five years of independence, Singaporeans are already committing a crime by dressing themselves in 'Brown T-Shirts', and all 'co-incidentally' standing around at the entrance to an MRT Station without obstructing free passage or making any demostrative nuisance of themselves ?
if people are starting to think that demonstrations and protests, peaceful or otherwise, is a good and indeed proper avenue to voice displeasure, then something is seriously wrong, and we're not moving forward in the right direction. It achieves nothing, but disrupts the everyday running of the society and provides fodder for tabloid politics, look at taiwan, or hong kong, why do you think lots of large financial institutions are deserting HK for Singapore ? ... you think it's really the bad air? ... or the half a million men demonstrations ? other countries may be doing it, but does it mean we have to blindly ape other countries on this ? ... (oh yeah, perhaps Singaporeans are one and the same, regardless of political stripes, we all copy things from other countries all too well, eh ? ... )
How would you propose to react to the Government sudden action taken against Mr Brown for his honest comments about the events of the day that concerned Singaporeans - ( which had dealt honestly with the Cost of Living ) ?
Would the Buangkok MRT Station be open if not for the persuasive power in the publicity given to the 'PEACEFUL Demonstations' by 'White Elephants' ?
Unfortunately, it created a political uproar and police investigation was launched. Fortunately for the residents, it was the PAP Member of Parliament who had taken action on behalf of his constituents, and the Law was bent - with a simple warning to the MP.
With Double Standards in the enforcement of Laws - one for the Political Elite, and one for all Singaporeans - how else can one bring publicity to the difficulties and problems faced by Singaporeans, when the Ruling Elite refused to listen and respond ?
Why compare with the worst situations from immature and violent tempered people, who knows little about 'tolerance and peaceful demonstrations' as was successfully carried out in many 'First World Countries' ?
Besides the successful outcome from the peaceful demonstration by 'White Elephants', we have seen the successful outcome from the peaceful struggles of the Civil Rights campaign in Alabama, that spread across the USA with subsequent peaceful marches held by the late Martin Luther King, and which had helped to bring awareness to the discriminations imposed on a large section of Afro-Americans.
How many Singaporeans are aware of blogs put up by individuals on their preferred issues ?
not happy about things ? ... write a blog, start an alternative cyber newspaper, keep issues alive till the elections ... and of course, there are these "veterans" active in our very own speaker's corner (and don't tell me sgforums' small potatoes and doesn't count either, else some people must have been either very stupid, or simply venting for the fun of it eh ? ...) do you not notice the tone in the singaporean cyberspace ? ... is that not "questioning", "speaking out" ... or just "hot air" ? ...
and that's something the opposition singularly failed to do. Instead of dissecting specific issues, most chose to whip the crowd in the last elections, I have no taste for the dramatics, nor am I inspired by "motivational" speakers (certainly not someone who can loose forms). Protests, slogans and hungerstrikes do nothing. There are plenty of things we can pick up from the taiwanese, business acumen, "can do" spirit, their politics is NOT a good model to learn from ....
How many Singaporean are computer literate, or even web-literate ?
Are you aware of the present call for world attention has been made by a Global Climate Campaign to be held on 4 November 2006 (Global Day), and on 11 November 2006 (Africa Day) - to co-incide with the United Nations climate talks in Nairobi, Kenya between 6 - 17 November 2006 ?
How many of us in Singapore are aware of this blog - or any other Singaporean political blog ?
Wide publicity that result in a higher attention to such blogs will come only when it runs foul of the Government; and it is not a surprise that Singapore is not amongst the list of 'First World' countries participating in this Global Event that calls for 'public demonstration'.
The 'Speakers' Corner' at Hong Lim Green is a joke, when any interested parties will have to obtain a police permit, submit the contents of the speech in advance for approval, and prohitions placed on any form of audio aids so as to restrict the number of attendees who can be physically within hearing range - when the location is in the heart of the City, and at major road intersections that bear heavy vehicular traffic.
Which political rally did you attend during the last Election ? Did the Workers' Party, or SDA, or SDP whipped up the emotions of the crowd with false issues, or did they touch on subjects that have rotted to the core ?
You may wish to revisit the election websites of the Workers' Party, and Singapore Democratic Alliance - and perhaps you may wish to change your opinion towards the Opposition Parties.
Your call for Singaporeans to learn from the Taiwanese suggest that Singaporeans business acumen is not comparable to the Taiwanese ?
Have you given any thought that it is the Taiwanese political environment that created the free space for the Taiwanese businessmen to exercise their business acumen ?
Many home grown Taiwanese businesses have been able to thrive and grow successfully into world beating brand names, without the threats of unfair competition created by a government that is bent on generating their wealth through Government Linked Companies that simply overwhelm Singaporean home grown small and medium enterprises.
How often have we heard the lofty ideals of the Singapore Government of their belief in free market forces, allowing supply and demand to determine everything from COE to land costs ?
Yet, when the market forces work against the interest of the Government, they will intervene to change the rules of the game that prevent the free market forces from determining the outcome.
Was the $50 COE a freak outcome, or was it reflective of the prevailing market demand and supply at that point in time ?
Why does the URA set a high premium in its call for public tender to purchase land for development of specific buildings ? Why is it not left to market forces of supply and demand ?
We maybe able to overlook your idealism if you are not exposed to the rigors of the local political and commercial scenes.
Over time, when you have seen enough of the Singapore picture, you will soon join the cynic group -
Blogs and cyberspace do not reach out to the voting majority, or more affectionately known as the Lianhe Wanbao crowd.
There is a limit to diffusion, and most of the alternative events that I've attended, e.g indigNation, I see mostly the same familiar faces, i.e the english-educated intellectuals.
To find even a centrist path to tread, all avenues have to be taken into consideration. For every bloody Cancun and Seattle, there is a peaceful 200k sit in in Taipei and a peaceful march in HK 2005/2006.
Black and white do not exist today, its the shades of grey which have to be taken into account. Shutterbug's pop quiz of that 18 yr old student shows one undeniable fact, that at least some of our youth have an idea of what speaking up and speaking out is about.It is not up to us to ride roughshod over the methodology chosen by others to express their views. They take their chances and they live with their actions, but we cannot dismiss them as summarily bad or good. Those ideals do not exist today, we live after all, in a post-modern world.
Some of us express our opinions through poetry readings, some of us write or support plays which advance our individual agendas, some choose to sit in Hong Lim Park overnight and maintain their stance on things.
When we look for a common quilt of opinions, let us not be too hasty to condemn one action in favor of the other. There is no truth today, there is only a multitude of angles.
After all, we are still Singaporeans, and we should never forget that under one nationality, lies many channels of expression. -
actually this is what GCT admitted.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Yesterday while out visiting relations, I asked a young girl of 18 who's studying in Ngee Ann, what she thinks of this whole IMF fiasco. Her reply to me shows how astoundingly bright and atuned the educated youngs are these days!
Her reply;"They are reluctant to let in those activist for fear that if peaceful demonstrations and protests is indeed possible (which there is no doubt it is possible since it will be held in an 8x8m indoor area), Singaporeans may also want to voice their displeasures! -
Yes.. because if everyone demands for a answers all their policies, they dare not tell the TRUTH or simply don't have an answer!Originally posted by lotus999:actually this is what GCT admitted.
Or they are simply afraid to be asked to step down like what happened in Indonesia with Suharto! -
i also suspect the IMF/WB are making singapore their scapegoat.Originally posted by Typhoon:Worst of all is the IMF and World Bank. They have made us their scapegoat. By fingering Singapore as the one responsible for barring those activists they have deflected the blame away from themselves. Most infuriating of all is, they are secretly enjoying the security and peace afforded by our ban, while criticising Singapore in public. Such gratitude.
I hope we learn a lesson from this. -
so much for their willingness to engage the people.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Yes.. because if everyone demands for a answers all their policies, they dare not tell the TRUTH or simply don't have an answer!
Or they are simply afraid to be asked to step down like what happened in Indonesia with Suharto! -
We and the activists have lost out, the IMF/WB are the only winners here.Originally posted by lotus999:i also suspect the IMF/WB are making singapore their scapegoat. -
The IMF/WB are damn happy...finally they can get their deals done without disruption.Originally posted by LazerLordz:We and the activists have lost out, the IMF/WB are the only winners here.
This may turn out well for Singapore as it sends out a powerful message to big businesses all over the world: if protesters target your business practice, move to Singapore! -
We cannot be so smug about it. What makes you or any of us for that matter, think we can be so sure about the outcome?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:The IMF/WB are damn happy...finally they can get their deals done without disruption.
This may turn out well for Singapore as it sends out a powerful message to big businesses all over the world: if protesters target your business practice, move to Singapore!
Every action has some fallout here and there, and I can be sure we will be affected in some ways, if not others, especially when it comes to MNCs who have a vested stake in a open climate because a controlled society has the propensity to breed lack of transparency.
The business world is not a standalone vacuum anymore, CSRs are only the tip of the iceberg. And I fully believe an MNC has to take into account it's social and human responsibility in the areas it operates these days, after all, you do not want to promote situations which will bubble over one day do you?
Your annual turnover is greater than many countries, your footprint overlaps continents and you exist as a supra-national entity.
So there.. we still have to be careful of our image as a whole in this era of managed and calibrated media spin. -
The Chiefs of the World Bank and IMF may as well hold this convention inside a Prison - which is as secure as Suntec City, and quiet too - now that the dissenters are kept out of Singapore.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:The IMF/WB are damn happy...finally they can get their deals done without disruption.
This may turn out well for Singapore as it sends out a powerful message to big businesses all over the world: if protesters target your business practice, move to Singapore!
The Chiefs of the World Bank and IMF were looking forward ot meeting the Civil Society Organisations, as they have been acknowledged to have contributed vast information and experience of real life conditions that need the help and attention of the World Bank and IMF.
Can the World Bank and IMF be any more effective without the contribution and input of the Civil Society Organisations ?
At least these real 'First World' Elites have the humility to admit that they are not omnipotent, and need the contribution of the wider community of fellow-humans to deal with issues affecting our Globe.
Can our self-acclaimed super human Elites even appreciate that they cannot be invincible and omnipotent in their knowledge and experience ? -
Originally posted by Fatum:
I see some of your postings are very presumptous assumptions. You assume that anyone country not moving in the Singapore way is "not moving forward, not moving in the right direction."
[b]
if people are starting to think that demonstrations and protests, peaceful or otherwise, is a good and indeed proper avenue to voice displeasure, then something is seriously wrong, and we're not moving forward in the right direction. It achieves nothing, but disrupts the everyday running of the society and provides fodder for tabloid politics, look at taiwan, or hong kong, why do you think lots of large financial institutions are deserting HK for Singapore ? ... you think it's really the bad air? ... or the half a million men demonstrations ? other countries may be doing it, but does it mean we have to blindly ape other countries on this ? ... (oh yeah, perhaps Singaporeans are one and the same, regardless of political stripes, we all copy things from other countries all too well, eh ? ... )
not happy about things ? ... write a blog, start an alternative cyber newspaper, keep issues alive till the elections ... and of course, there are these "veterans" active in our very own speaker's corner (and don't tell me sgforums' small potatoes and doesn't count either, else some people must have been either very stupid, or simply venting for the fun of it eh ? ...) do you not notice the tone in the singaporean cyberspace ? ... is that not "questioning", "speaking out" ... or just "hot air" ? ...
b]
There are some things not easily changed by writing a blog or or posting in forums. The internet forums and blogs reaches less than 0.01 percent of the population. Do you think people like Archie Ong who was sued by T.T. Durai had a better chance at blog? He would he been sued and silenced anyway because Singapore does not protect whistle blowers and the sheer cost of lawsuit would have scared any ordinary citizen away. Do you think Chiam See Tong could have reverse PAP tatics awarding upgrading based on party suppoer by posting on forum?
Thats when protest and demostration change things. It forces the elites to think twice before abusing legal lawsuits. -
I wonder if the gents here remember our little discussion about the supremacy of law and order ? ...
granted, everytime I put out my position on this, the pappies would do something so utterly stupid that it makes what I've written foolish ... but what I believe in transcends parties and actions ....
civil disobedience, peaceful or otherwise, is still just that, disobedience, a wilful and deliberate breaking of the law, even peaceful protests are a hindrance to the day to day running of society, don't you suppose 20000 people marching on the streets would cause a traffic jam of sorts ? ....
but back to the gist of things, to put out an old and battered argument again, say someone doesn't like a law on something, murder perhaps, thief, drug trafficking, or the death penalty, does it mean that you can be excempt from the law or choose not to obey it ? ... it's the same thing we're talking about here. If we do not have the supremacy of the law, then the system fails, and what we'll end up having will be populist goverments who can only know how to listen to votes and never get anything done, and an electorate and opposition who'll not hesitate to take to the streets everytime they don't like something they hear ... you see that as a happy position ? ... I don't ever want to see local politics go the way of Taiwan or the Phillipines, and the supremacy of the law is the only way we can pave the way for a viable alternative front against the pappies ... what Mr CSJ does is in contempt of the law, and the rest of us who abides by it.
by blogs and such, I was just naming examples, the list doesn't end there. I was involved in a campus alternative economics group too, like I told LL before. We do NOT believe in protests or civil disobedience, for we too, believe in the supremacy of the law, we're not some 70s flower children, in our recent campaign (against walmart, the evil empire ... :lol
, we held documentary viewings (yes, the famous walmart documentary and a few others), we spoke to classes in schools, we prepare leaflets, we collect signatures ... there are OTHER ways, there are viable alternatives to getting your views heard across, and there's none better than the ballot box, of course, if the results are not what you'd expect, then don't call people who hold alternative views from yours naive, stupid, brainwashed, whatever, and accept it, something some in the opposition strikingly failed to do ... -
Why don't we just go back to having an emperor then? Let him make the laws by decree? "supremacy of law and order" is an empty, high sounding useless phrase without honorable people enforcing it.Originally posted by Fatum:I wonder if the gents here remember our little discussion about the supremacy of law and order ? ...
Without the freedom of press for people to express their thoughts and more importantly, dissemninate their opinions in an effective manner, you are just promoting Cronyism Nepotism and Corruption.
You are too blinded by the brainwashng to see through the injustices and exploitation of the masses by the few for the few because they control the media.
Mr CSJ has now been proven to be right when he said that we have a third world, backward, opague political ruling class that had damage the opportunities of hundreds of thousands of small businesses and robbed the youths of their passion by instilling fear in their hearts.Originally posted by Fatum:what Mr CSJ does is in contempt of the law, and the rest of us who abides by it.
You do not stop crime by having a blanket curfew every day from 11pm to 6 am. You stop crime by catching criminals. If the police cannot do the job and have to resort to violating constitutional rights of Singaporeans and the rights of the invited activists; then resign, PAP.
Their bluff were called by people who were not brainwashed; they exposed their true agenda and that is, intolerance for dissent so that they can brainwash the people into accepting an exploitative and abusive system as good; as it is only common sense. You are one of their victims, it would seem.
You are like Natascha Kampusch, the Austrian girl who escaped from her kidnapper last week, suffering from an extreme version of Stockholm Syndrome, in which victims begin to associate and sympathise with their captors. -
so if I don't hold views similar to yours, I'm brainwashed ? ...
If I do not agree with you, I do not think ? ...
if I argue against you, I'm a goverment parrot ? ..
hmmmmm .......
-
Originally posted by Atobe:
The World Bank and IMF are not out to blatantly exploit the system and funding for the benefit of their own families and cronies... using the fig leaf of security to block dissent and more importantly, effective dissent.
The Chiefs of the World Bank and IMF may as well hold this convention inside a Prison - which is as secure as Suntec City, and quiet too - now that the dissenters are kept out of Singapore.
The Chiefs of the World Bank and IMF were looking forward ot meeting the Civil Society Organisations, as they have been acknowledged to have contributed vast information and experience of real life conditions that need the help and attention of the World Bank and IMF.
Can the World Bank and IMF be any more effective without the contribution and input of the Civil Society Organisations ?
At least these [b]real 'First World' Elites have the humility to admit that they are not omnipotent, and need the contribution of the wider community of fellow-humans to deal with issues affecting our Globe.
Can our self-acclaimed super human Elites even appreciate that they cannot be invincible and omnipotent in their knowledge and experience ?
[/b]
What is the point of dissent Singapore style, where people are blocked from expressing themselves in the mass media or in any other effective way?
Dissent that is no dissent - exactly what PAP wants, ineffective expression of opinions. So that they can continue to brain wash and exploit the gullible public. -
Actually I think so because all I see you doing is repeat the mantra of the PAP without any critical thoughts of your own. Like those people repeating religious doctrines without having any understanding of the downsides of the doctrines. God given truths, how can anyone dare criticise it?Originally posted by Fatum:so if I don't hold views similar to yours, I'm brainwashed ? ...
If I do not agree with you, I do not think ? ...
if I argue against you, I'm a goverment parrot ? ..
hmmmmm ....... -
ah .... another one that sees himself as the chap in plato's cave ....Originally posted by onceinabluemoon:Actually I think so because all I see you doing is repeat the mantra of the PAP without any critical thoughts of your own. Like those people repeating religious doctrines without having any understanding of the downsides of the doctrines. God given truths, how can anyone dare criticise it? 
why don't you look back at the tone of your posts ... don't you think you sound like an uncouth version of some pap fellow too ? ....
if you're so unaccepting of other's positions and opinions, what makes you any different from the party that you profess to hate ? .... -
I feel that PAP could do better if they are part of a minority government.Originally posted by onceinabluemoon:Actually I think so because all I see you doing is repeat the mantra of the PAP without any critical thoughts of your own. Like those people repeating religious doctrines without having any understanding of the downsides of the doctrines. God given truths, how can anyone dare criticise it?
In fact, commoners benefit whenever a minority government is elected. -
He is human & just like most politicians... they can perform 'magic'Originally posted by ditzy:He's not human, not counted. -
Pot calling the kettle black.Originally posted by onceinabluemoon:Actually I think so because all I see you doing is repeat the mantra of the PAP without any critical thoughts of your own. Like those people repeating religious doctrines without having any understanding of the downsides of the doctrines. God given truths, how can anyone dare criticise it?