This is Police Intimidation; are we World Class Yet??
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2.how do u know Gurkha have not been trained for anti--riot?Originally posted by Atobe:[color=darkred]
[color=darkred]Perhaps the Singapore Police was protecting CSJ and company from getting hurt if they ever reached Suntec City, as the Gurkhas are armed with live weapons, and are not trained in riot control but to use deadly force when the situation turned threatening.
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one of their their main mission is anti riots.This will reduce the accusation that Sg's Malay police kill/injure Chinese during riot or vice versa.
They can help to carry out anti riot impartially.Color of skin
to them is meaningless. -
8 pages down the road, I've read and seen the following words the most, "mindless sheeps, brainwashed sheeps" The intensive use of such words can produce two forseeable effects
1) Pissing pple off and they deliberately support PAP just to piss you back
2) Induce guilt in pple and they support CSJ instead because they don't want to be mindless sheeps
Neither of these effects are desirable for a democratic system. The idea of a democratic system is to allow the citizens of a country to elect their leaders after rationale reasoning and deciding who can possibly best lead them. There are people who called over present government a bully and yet they are using emotionally bullying words. Are these people the ideal spokeperson for democracy and freedom?
Shutterbug said that Freedom is the MOST important thing for a person. What is the basis of such statement? Did you do a general poll and ask every single Singaporeans if he/she wants the type of freedom that Shutterbug had in mind? There is a difference in saying "Freedom is the most important thing to me" and "Freefom is the most important thing to every person" By saying the latter without asking every single person, you are imposing the idea of freedom on everyperson that you did not ask. Are you forcing people to be free? Freedom can also be interpretated differently by different people. The common notion of Freedom is used in the liberal sense which is freedom from interference. Which means the less restrictions the government places on you, the less things that government say you cannot do, the more free you are.
The other freedom in the republican sense is freedom from domination. Which regards people to be free as long as they are not dominated by foreign powers. So if Singapore is seen as a larger entity of human, as in we see ourselves as a collective person rather than a group of individuals, then all rules that our elected government places upon ourselves would be considered self-discipline.
There was a posting that mentioned that Singapore's election is not fair because they received 66% of the votes but held over 90% of the seats in Parliament. Hey, Bush received millions of votes less than Al Gore, look who's seating in the White house. In other states that practice MMP system, the ruling government normally hold less than 50% of the votes.
For those who think that the international community is able to pressurise PAP into submission, think again. Does the majority of the state actors really give a damn to freedom and democracy? United States, crusader of democracy, had in the very words of their Secretary of State, Rice, said that for the pass few decades, U.S. had traded democracy in the middle east for stability. She was refering to the U.S. participation in conducting a coup in Iran a few decades back to oust an Iranian democratically elected government and bring in the Shar because the former had an anti-U.S. stand. Iraq was a long time a good friend of the U.S. b4 the Gulf War and U.S. turned a blindeye to whatever autocity Saddam had committed.
The NGOs, although following their conscience, lack unity and power. The only type of NGO that can ever change the fate of a country is the media, whose primary purpose is not their conscience but to make a profit. No media in the world report the truth, they only report the facts in manner they think their readers would like to read.
Its ok and healthy for Singaporeans to have different stand in politics, choosing not to be involve in politics is also a choice. The important thing is that we respect each other's view and although we can criticise each other's viewpoint using reasons, we should refrain from emotionally bullying them into our own camp. -
here they are certainly not armed to handle riot! don't know how many live rounds they carry, but with automatic rifles, it is shoot to kill, after the first warning shot in the air.Originally posted by lionnoisy:2.how do u know Gurkha have not been trained for anti--riot?
one of their their main mission is anti riots.This will reduce the accusation that Sg's Malay police kill/injure Chinese during riot or vice versa.
They can help to carry out anti riot impartially.Color of skin
to them is meaningless. -
You siao Ding dong. You think i MM LEE or PM HSL or SM Goh ah?Originally posted by foomwee88:Mind yr head!!!!Mindless sheep!!!
So stupid argument!!! making nosense!!!
Wat democracy got 2 do with communists????
Dont just threaten!! sue me if u can!!! I can give u my full name n IC no via pm!!
Sue you over what you post in forums? Siao Kia.
Cant you see serious discussion? Uncheebyised people like you want democracy.. go to hell la. Cant be bother to speak with a siao kia. SIAO DING DONG! cant even argue. Cant you see history. Ah tut ah? -
I refer to FREEDOM as it is used commonly and naturally as in the phrase; "FREE as a bird". FREE like any creature warm blooded or otherwise. FREE as we are born naturally FREE. Free as in "Born Free".Originally posted by wisefool83:8 pages down the road, I've read and seen the following words the most, "mindless sheeps, brainwashed sheeps" The intensive use of such words can produce two forseeable effects
1) Pissing pple off and they deliberately support PAP just to piss you back
2) Induce guilt in pple and they support CSJ instead because they don't want to be mindless sheeps
Neither of these effects are desirable for a democratic system. The idea of a democratic system is to allow the citizens of a country to elect their leaders after rationale reasoning and deciding who can possibly best lead them. There are people who called over present government a bully and yet they are using emotionally bullying words. Are these people the ideal spokeperson for democracy and freedom?
Shutterbug said that Freedom is the MOST important thing for a person. What is the basis of such statement? Did you do a general poll and ask every single Singaporeans if he/she wants the type of freedom that Shutterbug had in mind? There is a difference in saying "Freedom is the most important thing to me" and "Freefom is the most important thing to every person" By saying the latter without asking every single person, you are imposing the idea of freedom on everyperson that you did not ask. Are you forcing people to be free? Freedom can also be interpretated differently by different people. The common notion of Freedom is used in the liberal sense which is freedom from interference. Which means the less restrictions the government places on you, the less things that government say you cannot do, the more free you are.
The other freedom in the republican sense is freedom from domination. Which regards people to be free as long as they are not dominated by foreign powers. So if Singapore is seen as a larger entity of human, as in we see ourselves as a collective person rather than a group of individuals, then all rules that our elected government places upon ourselves would be considered self-discipline.
There was a posting that mentioned that Singapore's election is not fair because they received 66% of the votes but held over 90% of the seats in Parliament. Hey, Bush received millions of votes less than Al Gore, look who's seating in the White house. In other states that practice MMP system, the ruling government normally hold less than 50% of the votes.
For those who think that the international community is able to pressurise PAP into submission, think again. Does the majority of the state actors really give a damn to freedom and democracy? United States, crusader of democracy, had in the very words of their Secretary of State, Rice, said that for the pass few decades, U.S. had traded democracy in the middle east for stability. She was refering to the U.S. participation in conducting a coup in Iran a few decades back to oust an Iranian democratically elected government and bring in the Shar because the former had an anti-U.S. stand. Iraq was a long time a good friend of the U.S. b4 the Gulf War and U.S. turned a blindeye to whatever autocity Saddam had committed.
The NGOs, although following their conscience, lack unity and power. The only type of NGO that can ever change the fate of a country is the media, whose primary purpose is not their conscience but to make a profit. No media in the world report the truth, they only report the facts in manner they think their readers would like to read.
Its ok and healthy for Singaporeans to have different stand in politics, choosing not to be involve in politics is also a choice. The important thing is that we respect each other's view and although we can criticise each other's viewpoint using reasons, we should refrain from emotionally bullying them into our own camp.
Freedom needs not to be 'forced' onto any person or peoples. Freedom comes with our life/lives.
And FREEDOM, depending on which country, society, and or community you were born in, is to some extent and by conditions, controlled and or regulated for reasons personal, governmental or otherwise political. But FREEDOM cannot be lived in FEAR as is the case with FEER.
In FEAR, there is NO FREEDOM. If there is FREEDOM, there is and should not be, any FEAR. -
Sorry but does anyone here have a copy of that pamphlet he was giving out? I would love to have a copy. (Maybe frame it up on my wall next to pics of his 'escort') Also my pro-CSJ friends who are Singaporean but overseas are also interested in getting scanned copies of it for their perusal. IF anyone has it could you pls private msg me via this forums.
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You can get all these from www.singporedemocrat.orgOriginally posted by Wolfgangs246:Sorry but does anyone here have a copy of that pamphlet he was giving out? I would love to have a copy. (Maybe frame it up on my wall next to pics of his 'escort') Also my pro-CSJ friends who are Singaporean but overseas are also interested in getting scanned copies of it for their perusal. IF anyone has it could you pls private msg me via this forums. -
Originally posted by sgdiehard:here they are certainly not armed to handle riot! don't know how many live rounds they carry, but with automatic rifles, it is shoot to kill, after the first warning shot in the air.
Singapore got police train to put down riots. Gukhas are for racial riots where there can be killings. Surely they dun shoot to kill it will cause an uproar.
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It is a stupid OVER REACTION.Originally posted by Urroh:
Singapore got police train to put down riots. Gukhas are for racial riots where there can be killings. Surely they dun shoot to kill it will cause an uproar.
Over hyped.
Overkilled.
and OVER DONE.
how many riots have we experienced so far in all of 40 friggin years???
And for all the security measures in place downtown in the paranoia of Terrorism, they still left the back door unlocked and open. -
The Gukhas are here for Security and deterrence.Originally posted by ShutterBug:It is a stupid OVER REACTION.
Over hyped.
Overkilled.
and OVER DONE.
how many riots have we experienced so far in all of 40 friggin years???
And for all the security measures in place downtown in the paranoia of Terrorism, they still left the back door unlocked and open.
What back door are you talking abt? -
It's just my personal opinion that IF they are planning any attempts, it wouldn't be anywhere downtown or even any MRT stations anymore.Originally posted by Urroh:The Gukhas are here for Security and deterrence.
What back door are you talking abt? -
Anywhere in SG also wont la.. they are conducting check at border checkpoints, ferry and airports. How to smuggle explosives?Originally posted by ShutterBug:It's just my personal opinion that IF they are planning any attempts, it wouldn't be anywhere downtown or even any MRT stations anymore.
Anyway you want them to bomb our sub urban towns ah? -
what is democracy?
are there onli one type of democracy? -
U r rights! all these Gods are still using outdated tactic 2 scare ppls like business will be affected and properties damaged etc if there is protest in Spore.Originally posted by sgdiehard:The chinese also says, fu4 yan2 mu3 ci2 , besides the strict father there is a kind mother. Sg PAP is like some father, as long as i give you money, a roof over your head, shut the F---k up!! where is the ci mu who listen??
Now the SgFather realises the big problem ahead, and he needs the children to not to rely on him, start their own business, take care of the own medicals, but still expect the children not to have minds and ideas of their own???
what do you suggest we see in Taiwan?? i just came back from there, from what i saw i asked myself, 1. the president they elected became corrupt so now they can go on the streets to tell the president he should come down? can singaporean do that if we were in a similar situation in the future?? 2. my business meetings there were not in anywhere affected during these few days in Taipei, in fact, two of my associates went there after dinner with me with da pao for their wives there, alll businesses were as usual, is singapore society that matured??
the only thing I feared then was when they allowed another 200,000 green t-shirts to protest against the close to 1 million red t-shirts in the same city. But fortunately, nothing happened. If this were to happen in singapore, we would probably had M113, with live ammo, separating the two parties, if the parties were allowed to be there at all.
In a way, the sgPAP probably believes singaporeans were like the PRC chinese, like somebody here talked about the riots, the strikes, so the way they handle the people here is also like the PRC government, is it not??
Come on ! We hve 200,000 s'preans n their family members stayed in overseas, we r not like our parents who may not travelling as frequent as us to know the world!!! Pls wake up yr dog's ideal, we hve cable TV ind internet at home 2 follow all the news in overseas 24/7.
In summary,we r not a democracy country but a country same rank as north korea n PRC. -
http://i-speak.blogdrive.com/comments?id=219
take some time and read this very nice
mrbrown doing an interview -
Have you seen any Gurkha in any anti-riot training ?Originally posted by lionnoisy:2.how do u know Gurkha have not been trained for anti--riot?
one of their their main mission is anti riots.This will reduce the accusation that Sg's Malay police kill/injure Chinese during riot or vice versa.
They can help to carry out anti riot impartially.Color of skin
to them is meaningless.
Ask our NS boys in the Riot Squad if they have trained with the Gurkhas in riot or crowd controls ?
The Gurkhas are mercernaries, paid to make the ultimate sacrifice when the time calls for them to make that ultimate sacrifice to perform their role - defending high value assets - without any questions asked.
Their invaluable no-nonsense and low profile presence are in high value assets - which include the personal residences of PM, SM, and MM; the immediate areas around the offices of the PM, MM and SM on the Istana grounds, Bukit Gombak, Tengah West and Changi East Radar ground stations.
Those accusations that 'Sg's Malay police kill/injure Chinese during riot or vice versa' was a long time ago - back in 1963 and 1969, when the policing tasks did not attract many from the Chinese community.
Today, can the Malays still be the major ethnic group in any uniformed groups when they form less than 30 per cent of the Singapore population, and with National Service forcing all Singaporean males to be in the uniformed groups ?
With the careful selection of manpower based on education, physique, health and mental abilities, Singaporean males are assigned into the SAF, Police Force, and the Civil Defense.
Depending on the nature or required security clearance of individuals, the government has prevented even persons related to leading opposition persons from being engaged or placed in highly sensitive positions where national security is compromised - this is regardless of ethnicity.
As mentioned by some contributors here, the last time we have seen any public demonstrations - violent or not - was back in 1950s and 1960s.
The last time we saw a public demonstration of any significant size was in 1988, when 'some 4000 NTUC members gathered outside the US Embassy in Singapore to protest the decision' on the removal of the special General Special Preferences applicable to Singapore's exports to the USA.
This must have been a joke, as the main industries affected by the lifting of this special treatment were US manufacturers based in Singapore which produces 50 per cent of exported goods to the USA.
Unfortunately, it seems that the Ruling Elite is 'above the Law', as very often 'the law is applied in a lop sided manner', as public demonstations are allowed as long as it is sponsored by the PAP. -
A voice of refreshing reason, and can easily gain acceptance to those with reason too.Originally posted by wisefool83:8 pages down the road, I've read and seen the following words the most, "mindless sheeps, brainwashed sheeps" The intensive use of such words can produce two forseeable effects
1) Pissing pple off and they deliberately support PAP just to piss you back
2) Induce guilt in pple and they support CSJ instead because they don't want to be mindless sheeps
Neither of these effects are desirable for a democratic system. The idea of a democratic system is to allow the citizens of a country to elect their leaders after rationale reasoning and deciding who can possibly best lead them. There are people who called over present government a bully and yet they are using emotionally bullying words. Are these people the ideal spokeperson for democracy and freedom?
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Its ok and healthy for Singaporeans to have different stand in politics, choosing not to be involve in politics is also a choice. The important thing is that we respect each other's view and although we can criticise each other's viewpoint using reasons, we should refrain from emotionally bullying them into our own camp.
Generosity begets generosity, unfortunately to some it is seen as a sign of wavering uncertainty, a sign of weakness.
Is staying silent and being apathetic the other solution instead of direct confrontation ?
A democracy should be as robust and resilient to all kinds of views, and it is maturity for the persons and the system to be able to absorb all forms to debate, views, and languages, so as to expose those who are the most honest, intelligent, passionate, articulate, dishonest, plagiarising, foolish, and the most stupid. -
when is the pm making the speech? can anyone update on the Chee side if there is any movement?
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gurkhas are trained to be riot police. just watch the last crime watch and u see them. one distinct difference in their attire is the double kukri emblem on their helmet.Originally posted by Atobe:Have you seen any Gurkha in any anti-riot training ?
Ask our NS boys in the Riot Squad if they have trained with the Gurkhas in riot or crowd controls ? -
+1Originally posted by onceinabluemoon:Shameless dictators... now their shameful dishonorable deceit telling the whole world they are democratic shown by Reuters in pictures to be one big LIE.
Shamless Sg gov!!!! xie tie!!!! -
Ah Beng!!! I dont know hokkien!!!Originally posted by Urroh:You siao Ding dong. You think i MM LEE or PM HSL or SM Goh ah?
Sue you over what you post in forums? Siao Kia.
Cant you see serious discussion? Uncheebyised people like you want democracy.. go to hell la. Cant be bother to speak with a siao kia. SIAO DING DONG! cant even argue. Cant you see history. Ah tut ah?
Mind u !!! this is english forums not ah lians' forum.
U know the word CB!!! in hokkien just learnt from my frd!!! -
[b]
With pics like this sent all over the world by international news agencies, there is no need to use vulgarity and debate who is right... the truth is out.
Unless the old and the young Lee step down, Singapore will go downhill from now as on far as international reputation is concerned. Casinos operators will be the only few willing investors to come here because they get to come and rob us. -
Singapore activists end protest as PM delivers speech at IMF-World Bank meeting
Associated Press
19 Sep 06
Activists ended a three-day protest against the government on Tuesday, saying they had highlighted restrictions on freedom of speech and assembly as Singapore hosts the annual meetings of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank.
The Singaporean activists, who have numbered between six and 10, had camped out at a downtown park since Saturday, in defiance of laws that ban outdoor gatherings of more than four people without a police permit. Public protests are rare in Singapore.
Police had prevented them from marching to Parliament and the convention center where the IMF and World Bank were holding meetings. On Tuesday, the small group twice started to march in the direction of Parliament House, but were blocked by a row of police officers.
"The world now knows the extent of the repression in Singapore, and hopefully this will translate into pressure on the Singapore government to reform the system," said protest leader Chee Soon Juan, head of the opposition Singapore Democratic Party. "Our movement, our campaign for democracy, will grow and gain momentum and strength."
Singapore says its political system has democratic features, including elections, but that it does not seek a freewheeling, Western-style democracy that could foment tension and even chaos. Authorities tightly restrict speech and assembly, saying such controls provide the stability that has helped turn Singapore into a global economic powerhouse.
As host of the IMF-World Bank meetings, Singapore has sought to showcase itself to thousands of international visitors as a model of clean and efficient governance with a prosperous, open economy.
Chee's protest drew less local and international attention than Singapore's decision last week to bar two dozen foreign activists from entering the country to attend the meetings even though they were accredited. Singapore later reversed the decision after criticism from the IMF and the World Bank.
The end of Chee's protest coincided with a speech by Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong at the IMF and World Bank meetings. Lee said carefully managed globalization can improve the lives of the world's population, and that good governance and effective multilateral institutions were vital to its welfare. -
You know, one thing bugs me;
If they say we are a democratic country, and that they are about Democracy, why then must Police take pictures or videos and take down IC numbers of people going there to support Dr Chee???
Please, don't tell me SECURITY.
Let me hear something else.... -
The questioning of anyone and everyone who speaks at length or in short conversations to any 'opposition' member is an obvious disregard to basic freedom of speech and blatant abuse of the police force. It's shameful that our own police do not reject such blatant attempts to use the blue uniform as a strongarm to discourage the general public from getting the views of people who do not agree with the Ruling Party.Originally posted by ShutterBug:You know, one thing bugs me;
If they say we are a democratic country, and that they are about Democracy, why then must Police take pictures or videos and take down IC numbers of people going there to support Dr Chee???
Please, don't tell me SECURITY.
Let me hear something else....
Do the police take down the IC and names of people who speak to Ruling Party MPs during their walkabouts? Is it a crime to seek different opinions or points of view?
It seems that abuse of police power by the ruling party aside, they are content to tighten their stranglehold over how the people SHOULD think, against FREEDOM OF THOUGHT. Anything that does not conform to what they believe is right will simply be quashed as quickly as can be found.
It will take true guts and a collective group from within the system itself to stop the rot.