Mahathir To SG :~ You Are A Tiny Country!!
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Then pls stop telling the world that 'we showed Malaysia in many way" pls read the rest of your para from a bystander perspective.Originally posted by gohkatkat:relative to the size.....people often look at singapore like as though we were some miserable country...............we showed malaysia in many ways.....in terms of transport system......cleanliness........economic stability........and most importantly......race relations with the ethnic races..........now we see so many indians and malays on the roads........owning their own cars.....private apartments.............in malaysia???hmmm.....leaves more to be desired.........
i rather not comment about their country............they should know their own standards..............how good and lousy...........
Make good propaganda material though for ruling party
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what i am talking is still within the limits because its about singapore's small size and our capabilities.....NOT ABOUT some stupid fish and chip comparison.Originally posted by qpicanto:Then pls stop telling the world that 'we showed Malaysia in many way" pls read the rest of your para from a bystander perspective.
Make good propaganda material though for ruling party -
The truth is.. Chinese n minority races ARE marginalised in Malaysia especially majority chinese states like Sabah , Sarawak. They even asking the only Chinese Chief Minister to step down n be rotated because he supposedly marginalised the Malays. I think what LKY said is true, but unfortunately the chinese ministers cannot openly back LKY up or my face serious backlash at home. We all starting to feel the pinch.
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as the man said... his commentary was based on a study conducted by others.. if you cant even understand that basic english sentence... you should go back to kindergarden...Originally posted by soulness:are u a kid? hhaha
soooo naive!
if dunno, dun talk lar..embarass urself only -
Originally posted by gohkatkat:what i am talking is still within the limits because its about singapore's small size and our capabilities.....NOT ABOUT some stupid fish and chip comparison.
didnt ruling party teach u to be modest and dont trumpet our achievements... others also improving already -
yup ... china and india... those two big kingkong of asian descent are making our city look like any ordinary chinese 2nd rate towns.Originally posted by qpicanto:
didnt ruling party teach u to be modest and dont trumpet our achievements... others also improving already
at their rate of growth... singapore would soon become a small town and KL a small fishing kampong in the eyes of global investors.
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I personally think that the air of arrogance most of us singaporeans potray that cause some discomfort in the eye of our closest neighbour. This shouldn't be the case coz we both need each other in terms of crisis. The issue that was raised was similar to that 10 yrs ago. It seems that this issue will never be put to rest as both parties are unwilling to reach a compromise and give in. This is my thoughtOriginally posted by qpicanto:i thought got typical Spore type of arrogant respond: we are the best in the world.
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having an upper hand is not a god given right, what sg enjoys now in whatever advantage or perceived advantage can change over time. so, the arrogance displayed, time and again, especially by the mental munster and clan is little appreciated.
due to the inadequacies of each ctry, MY and SG need to co-exist, however they dislike each other.
also, inequalities is everywhere, so all allegations against each other have truths or half truths. tell me a country tt has got an equal right constitution in practice today? so, i dun think we need to fool ourselves here about the state of being in SG.
however consider this:
1. minority chinese in MY do enjoy a disproportionate share in the economy pie in MY. call it business savviness, survival instinct or whatever, MY chinese will pull thru' regardless, and bumi putera's there will still rely on the chinese to lead the business trade and provide economic direction for MY, until the day they figured that out.
2. Minority malay in Singapore is in a different situation. The bulk of them still occupy the lower rung on the socio-economic ladder in SG. Can they push thru' that `glass ceiling'? my take is never, becos the founding father of modern sg will hold the big picture theory tt sg will inadvertantly needs to be run by his own kind. the geographical presence of its neighbours and personal biasness is enuf to see to it tt it is the ah bengs, not the mats that will call the shot. -
It is a fact that Singapore is a tiny country, and nothing in the world can change this fact - even if we reclaim the sea up to the international border line - it will remain tiny.
Despite the tiny size, Singapore is big in talent, big in generosity, big in tolerance, big in patience, big in determination, big in ambition, big in ability, big in creativity, big in ego, big in pride, big in intelligence, and big in positive attitude that we never die unless we decide to.
All that said, what is the use of old politicians that is past their time, digging up old issues to make themselve relevant in this day and age ?
While one enters each new day with positive expectations, working towards a hopeful positive outcome, should one allow history to burden our every action that guide us through each day ?
History is to be remembered, but not to be constantly and burdensomely reminded to the extent of allowing history to affect relationships between individuals or nations.
Malaysia's way of treating its Citizens under Mahathir is no business of ours, and in any case, Mahathir had felt disappointment with his own ethnic group for not responding to his call - and he cried.
With Badawi holding the Malaysian Premiership and his new approach of achieving social equality for all Malaysian ethnic groups - from all political colors and stripes - this is a new beginning.
This new beginning was recognised by Singapore's SM GCT - when he called for Badawi to work closer with LHL, as both are new in their position, with no political baggage.
Is there any reason for the old politicians to bring up historical muck, and foul the fresh air that we breathe ? -
and which part of LKY statement do you feel is "historical" in nature?Originally posted by Atobe:
It is a fact that Singapore is a tiny country, and nothing in the world can change this fact - even if we reclaim the sea up to the international border line - it will remain tiny.
Despite the tiny size, Singapore is big in talent, big in generosity, big in tolerance, big in patience, big in determination, big in ambition, big in ability, big in creativity, big in ego, big in pride, big in intelligence, and big in positive attitude that we never die unless we decide to.
All that said, what is the use of old politicians that is past their time, digging up old issues to make themselve relevant in this day and age ?
While one enters each new day with positive expectations, working towards a hopeful positive outcome, should one allow history to burden our every action that guide us through each day ?
History is to be remembered, but not to be constantly and burdensomely reminded to the extent of allowing history to affect relationships between individuals or nations.
Malaysia's way of treating its Citizens under Mahathir is no business of ours, and in any case, Mahathir had felt disappointment with his own ethnic group for not responding to his call - and he cried.
With Badawi holding the Malaysian Premiership and his new approach of achieving social equality for all Malaysian ethnic groups - from all political colors and stripes - this is a new beginning.
This new beginning was recognised by Singapore's SM GCT - when he called for Badawi to work closer with LHL, as both are new in their position, with no political baggage.
Is there any reason for the old politicians to bring up historical muck, and foul the fresh air that we breathe ?
LKY was stating the present... and how the way our neighbours mistreats its chinese has influenced the way they negotiate with us... he wasnt even pointing at malaysia alone...
from a another POV, LKY was merely reminding singaporeans that we do not live in paradise.. and there are those racist govt around our country who continue to belittle our country and people, because our skin color aint the same.
tell me... did LKY lied or was he infering to something of a historical nature?
neither... and while how our neighbours handles its chinese population is their own choice...
LKY merely reminds neighbouring authorities... that singapore aint their small chinese village within malay/javanese border. -
Better to call a spade, a spade
KIM QUEK
The writer is a political commentator
and author of the Malaysian best-seller, Where to, Malaysia?.
IN the chorus of protests against Singapore Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew's recent remark that Chinese Malaysians have been marginalised, one simple question remains unanswered.
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If there has been no racial marginalisation, why has the word meritocracy been a taboo in Malaysian politics ever since the racial riots of May 13,1969?
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A few more simple questions: Why has there been a massive and unrelenting brain drain since then, resulting in many Chinese Malaysians excelling in many fields in foreign lands? Why has there been a virtual monopoly by one race in the whole spectrum of the public sector, from the army and civil service to the judiciary and universities?
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Why have there been, year after year, top Chinese Malaysian students barred from universities, only to be admitted later (for some) upon begging by Chinese Cabinet ministers?
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No doubt Mr Lee may be faulted for lacking diplomatic niceties in his remarks, but he has spoken the truth. And I think every Malaysian knows that, at least in the deepest part of his heart.
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Yes, we have been practising racial discrimination, and that is a zero sum game. When race A is barred so that race B can get in, it is one side's loss and another side's gain.
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It is sheer dishonesty and hypocrisy to deny that no race has suffered a disadvantage as a result of this policy.
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But the real question is: Is such policy justified? To answer that, we have to go back to where such policy started — the New Economic Policy (NEP), formulated after the racial riots in 1969.
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In its original concept, the NEP's prime objective was to achieve national unity and the strategy was two-pronged: To eradicate poverty irrespective of race, and to restructure society so as to eliminate the identification of race with economic function.
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There is nothing wrong with such an affirmative action policy, but the tragedy is that over the years, through racial hegemony, it has been transformed into a policy synonymous with racial privileges.
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There is no question that in spite of the misapplication, the NEP has achieved its limited objective of elevating the status of Malays to a respectable level, compared to that of other races.
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But such anachronistic and regressive policy has no place in the globalising world or in any civilised society. As it is, the pressure to dismantle such policy does not come from within — as the deprived races seem powerless to redress this wrong — but from the whole world who are our trading partners.
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Our trade negotiators should be able to testify how tough the going is when it comes to negotiating free trade agreements — whether it is regional marketing pacts or bilateral agreements — due to the presence of Malaysia's race-based protectionist policies.
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These NEP-inspired policies stand as stumbling blocks to the opening of a wider window for two-way trades and investments.
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Even worse is the loss of Malaysia's economic competitiveness in the face of rising competition from abroad.
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Our prime minister has correctly diagnosed this malaise as the prevalence of our third-world mentality, but he has not done enough to correct our uncompetitive culture or to stamp out our worsening racial and religious divide.
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Mr Lee's comments have understandably riled many Malaysian leaders, but it should also have struck resonance among many who have silently put up with these unjust policies all these years.
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The great silent majority should now ponder what would serve their interests best: To save face by angrily rebutting Mr Lee, or to stare at the ugly truth and institute changes that will put the nation on the right path?
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We have reached a stage in our history critical enough to warrant caution in putting too much trust in incumbent leaders. The fact that we have scraped through as a nation despite such policies does not guarantee we will be similarly lucky in the future.
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Internal and external circumstances have so altered that we can no longer commit such major errors without putting our future in peril. From this perspective, Mr Lee's bitter medicine may yet work to our advantage, if we are humble and brave enough to do some serious introspection that may lead to our common good. -
'MM's comments reflect reality in M'sia'
Doyen of Chinese-language education says issue was avoided by Chinese parties
KUALA LUMPUR — Comments made by Singapore's Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew at a forum last week reflected the reality in Malaysia — but it was an issue the Chinese parties in the ruling Barisan Nasional coalition did not dare bring up, said Malaysia's doyen of Chinese-language education Shen Muyu.
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Mr Shen said the country's ethnic Chinese should thank Mr Lee for his comments that the "Chinese are being marginalised" in Malaysia, Singapore's Chinese- language Zaobao reported yesterday citing an interview with the Chinese-language China Press.
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Answering a question at a forum in Singapore last week, Mr Lee had reportedly said it was vital for the Republic to stand up to Malaysia and Indonesia.
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He said the attitude of Malaysia and Indonesia towards Singapore had been shaped by the way the countries treated their own ethnic Chinese minorities.
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Mr Shen said there were a number of policies that were disadvantageous to non-bumiputras but this was something the Chinese were afraid to talk about and silently acquiesced to.
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What Mr Lee said reflected the feelings of Malaysia's Chinese, he added.
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Mr Shen said the response of the Chinese leaders within Malaysia's ruling coalition to Mr Lee's remarks did not "come from the heart".
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Mr Shen urged the Malaysian government to treat all races alike, saying that both bumiputras and non-bumiputras pay taxes and contribute to the well-being of the country.
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The presence of a quota system with respect to a number of government policies, as well as the policy of not allowing the creation of new Chinese-language primary schools, are evidence that the Chinese were being marginalised, he added.
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Speaking to the Chinese-language Nanyang Siang Pau, Mr Shen said Malaysia's Chinese should take up on what MM Lee had said and make their views heard through proper channels, Zaobao reported.
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In a poll on blogsite MonsterBlog, hosted by Malaysia's New Straits Times, 42 per cent of respondents agreed with Mr Lee that Chinese in Malaysia were marginalised, 18 per cent disagreed, while the rest had other opinions, according to a report by Nanyang.com.
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Malaysian government leaders have criticised Mr Lee's comments; Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi said on Saturday that his words were "very dangerous" and could amount to "instigation".
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"I will write to him and seek clarification why he had said it," media reports quoted Mr Abdullah as saying.
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"This act is not fair at all, made by a leader of our neighbouring country. Mr Lee Kuan Yew should have understood that our relations with Singapore must always be nurtured with care.
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"He would want stability on our side because if we are not stable, Singapore will face problems because of its many interests here." -
I think All chinese Malaysian's and Indonesia Chinese and the non-bumi's should pack up.. move all our money , brain power everyhting to SG..he he..
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That GIF of yours.......hmmm
Ain't very pleasant to the eye -
This topic of Sg being called a tiny country is linked to the dear old MM describing My and Id, countries that marginalised their minority local chinese. It may be the truth and there are facts to his comments. Afterall, his opinions are highly regarded worldwide, coming from the example of bringing Sg to where it is today under his leadership. But who likes to face reality. It's worse having someone from the outside telling you that your own home need housekeeping.
If you care to go through the comments posted in the other related topic also in speaker's corner, one would see, contributions are calling the leaders of both side old fogey who ought to just shut up. Both who just wouldn't go riding into the sunset.
However when the rebuttal goes into calling Sg a tiny country, we are all up in a fit. We suddenly are filled with nationalistic pride. Whether the 66.7% of us or not, we suddenly forget about the fare hikes and whatever else. Some has suggested that we ought to go invade My, providing scenario after scenario. Since when SAF was on a warpath? What are we to do after invading My? Kick Mahatir's butt and transform it into another Sg?
There's a difference between politicians and the local people. It's true we share a common history with our neighbours, particularlly My. Just so happened that our forefathers decided to head for Sg and theirs made a detour to the Malay federated states. When politicians talk, there's always an agenda behind their words.
This forum may be read mostly by singaporeans. Therefore is it right to sling mud over the other side? Are we critising the government or the people? Keep it clear. -
and end up like us here in SG??Originally posted by BadzMaro:I think All chinese Malaysian's and Indonesia Chinese and the non-bumi's should pack up.. move all our money , brain power everyhting to SG..he he.. -
Originally posted by tripwire:
No, LKY did not lie, as everything that he had said was all of a historical nature.
and which part of LKY statement do you feel is "historical" in nature?
LKY was stating the present... and how the way our neighbours mistreats its chinese has influenced the way they negotiate with us... he wasnt even pointing at malaysia alone...
from a another POV, LKY was merely reminding singaporeans that we do not live in paradise.. and there are those racist govt around our country who continue to belittle our country and people, because our skin color aint the same.
tell me... did LKY lied or was he infering to something of a historical nature?
neither... and while how our neighbours handles its chinese population is their own choice...
LKY merely reminds neighbouring authorities... that singapore aint their small chinese village within malay/javanese border.
At 83 years old, LKY is living in the past and trying very hard to make himself relevant in the year 2006 - where even in PR China, every 80 year is no longer sitting in the People's Congress, and ARE EXPECTED to retire.
Badawi has replaced Mahathir, and is pursuing a different policy from that of Mahathir's - if you have not already noticed since his first three years of quiet contemplation and a change in the political climate between us.
Did you participate in the thread : "Real Lessons in 'National INCLUSIVENESS' - w/o political bias" - in which Badawi had reached out to all Malaysians irregardless of ethnicity or political leanings ?
This is unlike Singapore Politics where development is reserved to areas that had voted for PAP candidates, while the constituencies that had elected the candidates from the Alternative Parties are left to languish.
Even in Indonesia, politiking towards the Chinese Community has decidedly changed for the better under the present leadership of President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono - with the Chinese now being able to celebrate Chinese traditional lunar calendar events openly, and official legislations have been passed for the reopening of Chinese Schools for the 5,000,000 over Chinese that make up the Indonesian population.
Yes, the Chinese are marginalised in Indoneisa and Malaysia in the areas of Politics, and unlike Singapore - these countries do not practise Meritocracy nor Elitism; still during Abdul Rahman and Megawati's Presidency, an Indonesian Chinese was the Finance Minister.
Despite being marginalised, in these countries, we find millionaires and billionaires who are largely Chinese.
How many Singaporeans have been able to achieve this millionaire status in the last forty-five years of independence under the PAP, other than being a Minister in the PAP Government ?
It seems that Singapore fared better under the Colonial rule, when the number of Millionaires exist in bigger numbers than after independence under the PAP.
How did MM LKY perceive that the Indonesian and Malaysian had treated Singapore in the same manner as they have treated the respective Chinese Communities in Indonesia and Malaysia ?
Was LKY referring to current conduct of the present administration of President Yudhoyono or PM Badawi ?
Or was he referring to the historical past in the treatment that Singapore received, as meted out by PM Mahathir and President Jusuf Habibe - the small man, with the small mind who is only capable of creating the 'Little Red Dot' and had the shortest term in office ?
From Indonesia, even during the period of the blind President Abdurrahman Wahid, and during President Megawati Sukarnoputri - both had turned to Singapore for assistance and consultation, looking up to MM LKY for his leadership and knowlege of Indonesian politics.
Neither these two past Indonesia Presidents, nor the present President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono had marginalised nor expect LKY to be compliant.
Was PM Badawi's diplomatic moves towards Singapore reflect any attempt to expect Singapore to be compliant ?
It was PM Badawi who resolved the most contentious issue between Malaysia and Singapore, by scrapping the Causeway Project; and this caused a severe rift in the internal politics between himself and Mahathir - resulting in the present heat that Mahathir is creating.
Surely, these actions over the immediate period of the last three years do not reflect MM LKY's statements.
It will be interesting to hear LKY's reply when Badawi writes to LKY for an explanation to his remarks made. -
i think in this instance, MM not only lacked political grace but had also stirred the hornet's nest. He had provoked our two neighbours for no apparent rhyme or reason.
i also feel that it is right for Dr M to rebut MM. He is afterall the former PM of Malaysia. Even the mild-mannered current PM, Abdullah also didn't keep his famous "elegant silence". -
Sorry, I didn't follow up on the story. What did the current PM say? He gives the impression that he is too quiet, unlike the ex-PM. A firecracker. Dunno which one is better...Originally posted by pearlie27:i think in this instance, MM not only lacked political grace but had also stirred the hornet's nest. He had provoked our two neighbours for no apparent rhyme or reason.
i also feel that it is right for Dr M to rebut MM. He is afterall the former PM of Malaysia. Even the mild-mannered current PM, Abdullah also didn't keep his famous "elegant silence". -
He has lah! Increase the corruption level during his tenure as the PM...Originally posted by OO_OO_OO:actually.. we invade malaysia we lose. seriously.
but he shdnt think he's a big fu.ck cos he hasnt done anything great himself.
Now he's not happy with Abdullah cos Abdullah's cranking down on corruption practices and shelving most of the projects that kicked off during his ninth malaysian plan (9MP)... -
Originally posted by Atobe:
"I'm old and senile rememebr? ignore me lar..."
It will be interesting to hear LKY's reply when [b]Badawi writes to LKY for an explanation to his remarks made.
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Maybe LKY is doing this on purpose so that Singapore companies will not want to invest in Johor.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
the rest garbage i deleted to save space...
No, LKY did not lie, as everything that he had said was all of a historical nature.
At 83 years old, LKY is living in the past and trying very hard to make himself relevant in the year 2006 - where even in PR China, every 80 year is no longer sitting in the People's Congress, and ARE EXPECTED to retire.
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just your above two sentence enough to prove you are living in ivory tower...
if you dont believe me... kindly visit any malaysian chinese forum... -
Its a fact Sg is a tiny country. .
And for goodness sake, Sg Malays live better than everyone else.
They don't no need take care to high-responsinbility posts in NS
and get free education. Everyone else would want that too.
And for once, I agree entirely with LKY.
Its a fact that Chinese are marginalised in Malaysia.
And its a fact that only stupid non-malays would want to stay in Malaysia.
Afterall, "Malaysia" comes from the word "Malays".
They have every right to marginalise everyone else.
Well, its simply not a place for any other races.