GIC/Temasek can avoid losses-Micropolis,PCCW,Optus, ShinCorp
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Citizens' monies are hard earned and should be invested wisely in accountable and transparent manner which can be scrutinized by a panel of experts with citizens' inputs.
Many feedbacks have been given in the past to GIC and Temasek to avoid wasting monies on politically sensitive investments but apparently these advices were not heeded at all as seen in the latest losses in Shin Corp investments.
Why must GIC/Temasek cause such losses when such surpluses can be invested more wisely to benefit many who have lost their jobs and lower costs of doing business within Singapore.
Surely after Souzhou, Optus, PWWC and Shin Corp, lessons have been learned and we will hear from GIC/Temasek what will be their future investment strategy to avoid similar huge losses of people's hard earned monies.
Is it wise to invest our citizens' hard earned monies in politically sensitive stocks which would would even cause back lash against Singapore.
As posted many times in the past GIC/Temasek should invest surpluses of citizens in a more objective manner as follows:-
(1) Divide national surpluses and reserves into categories i.e. Retirement/Medical Welfare fund, Venture capital fund, Secured Blue-Chip Fund.
(2) Allocate a percentage of total surplus to first category fund for investment in safe haven bonds and stocks. Use the returns from this category to create endowment funds which will be used to lower costs of lving and provide for retirements and medical welfare of citizens.
(3) Lock up gains from the last category of fund - venture capital at a certain ratio into the first category fund and reinvest them in bonds and secured guarantees which will bring returns to the people for retirements and medical needs.
(4) Invest into strategic shares and stocks only after inputs from those regularly exposed to and knowledgeable about trends in technologies and inner industry knowledge about risks within particular industries.
(5) Total foreign investments overseas should be capped so that our own surpluses will be invested in worthwhile mport-substitution projects and technology start-ups to upgrade our economic competitiveness.
(6) An Economic Master Plan should be put up internally to secure implementation of long-term plan taking advantage of our IR, educated manpower and strategic locations and other resources e.g. empty lands, vacant factories to greater advantages.
(7) Deploy a heavy-weight result-oriented minister of the calibre of Dr. Goh Keng Swee to convert with the fullest support of all resources the existing pro-foreign pro-GLC policy-conceptual model into pro-knowledge application mass participation model.
The only way for Singapore to upgrade to value-adding economy it to upgrade the whole of policies and incentive packages to promote technology and knowledge-driven value-adding new model ministers have been talking about from one recession to another for ages. -
Just saw this in another forum,haiz Temasek made paper lost of 820 million in a matter of half a year? Or prehaps even real lost should they proceed to sell of a portion of the shares next year to get in line with regulations.
Shin Corp losses hit Temasek after coup
By John Burton in Singapore
Published: September 22 2006 12:51 | Last updated: September 22 2006 12:51
Temasek Holdings, the Singapore state investment company, on Friday faced the threat of further losses on its $1.9bn investment in Shin Corp, which it bought in January from the family of Thaksin Shinawatra, the Thai prime minister who was overthrown in a coup this week.
For a second day in a row, the share price of Shin Corp and its affiliates fell sharply as the Bangkok stock market reacted to reports that the new Thai government would launch a probe into alleged corruption involving Mr Thaksin and his family, including the tax-free sale of Shin Corp.
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Shin Corp's share price has fallen 43 per cent since January, resulting in a paper loss of nearly $820m on Temasek's 49 per cent stake in Shin Corp, a telecoms and media group.
Regulators have focused on whether Temasek breached a 49 per cent limit on foreign holdings in strategic industries. A consortium led by Temasek acquired 96 per cent of Shin Corp in March after TemasekÂ’s initial investment triggered a mandatory offer for the remaining stakes.
Regulators are investigating whether some of the consortium companies served as proxies for Temasek to gain control of Shin Corp. Temasek said it complied fully with Thai law. Other foreign companies have been suspected of using similar methods to take over Thai companies.
The Thai commerce ministry said it might forward the results of its investigation to the police.
Most analysts believe that it is unlikely that Thailand will nullify Temasek's takeover of Shin Corp, but Temasek could be forced to sell excess shares at a potential loss if it is found to be in breach in the foreign shareholding limits.
"There is the potential for a backlash against Temasek, although the Thais are a pragmatic people. Going after Temasek could harm the climate for other foreign investors in Thailand," said Hugh Young, head of Aberdeen Asset Management in Asia. He also predicted a period of uncertainty ahead for Shin Corp.
The Temasek-led consortium also could suffer potential losses if it proceeds with a plan to sell at least 11.3 per cent of its stake in Shin Corp next year to retain the group's listing status by increasing its free-float to 15 per cent as required by Bangkok stock exchange rules.
Advanced Info Services, Thailand's biggest mobile operator and Shin Corp's main asset, has suffered less in the recent market slide than its parent. Temasek-owned Singapore Telecommunications also has a 21 per cent stake in AIS.
Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2006 -
they will tell you to look long term.
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The above-stated suggestion was posted to PAP HQ on 23.9.2006 for them to consider inviting forumers here to join them in debating past policies which no longer work in today's conditions.
PAP's existing procedure is to refer anyone interested to be recommended by its branches and only after a period of good and compliant "yesman" behaviour will anyone be able to join as PAP member.
I will need more people to support in asking for real opening up (not hot air only as given by YPAP recently) and not the existing joining procedure which kills all interests from independent-minded people.
If PAP truly wants to change it will have to change from within the party. -
Saturday, 23 September 2006 - Channel NewsAsia, Headline :
Thailand may seize deposed billionaire PM's assets.
Will Temasek Holdings have a new partner in Shin Corp, if the minority stake held by Thaksin's family is also seized ?
Or will the upcoming Corruption Investigating Committee - set up by the Military Leadership to look into all the allegations of Thaksin's corruption - affect the sale of Shin Corp to Temasek ?
Will this investigation result in nullifying the Shin Corp-Temasek deal, with the seizure of Shin Corp so as to recover ownership rights to the satellite - which is part of the Thai national pride ?
Was this Temasek purchase of Shin Corp executed with the necessary due diligence given to all the details; or was it completed with a pat on the back of personal familiarity - from one First Family to Another First Family, with each holding the key to their respective national assets ? -
whatever the outcome, the purchase of the shin corp was a bad move, its shares has already plunge to new depth and it will only get worse.. with tat in mind, i wanna know whos gonna be responsible for this aqusition at temasek and whos head is gonna roll?? too much loss of tax payers money and no ones taking responsible for it..
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heheheheee...
and then we are all backseat drivers...
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Sometimes, people just do not learn enough or are willing to learn. So far the regional countries have snubbed Temasek's foray into their national assets as has happened in Optus, PCCW, Qantas, Global Crossing...Originally posted by 4getmenot:whatever the outcome, the purchase of the shin corp was a bad move, its shares has already plunge to new depth and it will only get worse.. with tat in mind, i wanna know whos gonna be responsible for this aqusition at temasek and whos head is gonna roll?? too much loss of tax payers money and no ones taking responsible for it..
With so many bad experiences why did Temasek refuse to accept that there would be serious repercussions in trying to acquire politically sensitive assets.
If lessens have been learned previously, there should have been evaluations into the political situation surrounding Thaksin and what he was trying to do at that material time. Could Thaksin have overcome his own political crisis.
All these surrounding issues should have been studied before Temasek launched the acquistion of Shin Corp. It looks like a daring raid without preparation of the ground to overcome potential problems. -
I think the GIC has the mentality of no risk no gain. A greater risk = greater gains. Technically Shin Corp is a rather gd investment. However the GIC tot that the thais are like singaporean. Hum Hum dun protest on economic transaction de. A lot of times oversea investor often neglect the culture of the society whn they make moves on investment.
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If GIC is to grow as a major investor with ability to invest in stocks like Shin Corp it would have to understand in-depth political culture of the Thai people like its army, its king and what they stand for and what the people are capable of as a political entity. Beside, how good is the existing technology versus new technology like the VOIP.Originally posted by NewAge:I think the GIC has the mentality of no risk no gain. A greater risk = greater gains. Technically Shin Corp is a rather gd investment. However the GIC tot that the thais are like singaporean. Hum Hum dun protest on economic transaction de. A lot of times oversea investor often neglect the culture of the society whn they make moves on investment.
It looks like competitions against Optus was so strong that it's stock has been dropping but our inept Singtel simply went for it hook-line-and-sinker and swallowed a big dose of poison which it could hardly digest.
So the moral of the story from these past acquisitions is :
"do not just envy a stock for its size but look at it in a big picture. Has Singtel got the VOIP technology edge to turn around declining telecom market due to the onset of VOIP.
Have we got the shrwd and technology-savvy CEOs to play that kind of local politics to run it and overcome problems. From the start it should have been clear that it was a different cup of tea to acquire and run Shin Corp. Could it survive the upcoming competition happening due to Thai pride in owning their own national asset. . -
temasek is temasek... GIC is GIC...
the one that bought shin corp is temasek... not GIC.
the only similarity is that many heads in Temasek happens to be people related to the govt, such as ex-ministers, wife of PM and so on...
but they are still 2 separate entity.. though in most foreigners eyes.. they are 2 corporation answering to the same boss; singapore govt.
the quasi official face of temasek leaderships... gives foreigners the "excuse", rather then sound economic reason to resist temasek buyouts.
nationalism is an unavoidable part of buissness... and buissnessman, irreguardless of skin color or religion, have been known to stir up the heat to gain advantage in dealing with foreign investors.
just look at GULF PORT of UAE, when they bought P&O, after besting PSA (which laugh all the way to the bank), the americans came out in force and DEMANDED GP to hand over american ports, formally under P&O to AMERICANS!
and look at PCCW shares after besting singtel and bought HKT.... endless round of retrenchment.. and guess how much did their shares drop... like a meteor crashing to earth... and now their young boss are trying to flee the site of massacre by selling out.
thus... such resistance is omni present.. irreguardless if the entity if Temasek or GIC or any major investors from any part of the world...
should then temasek and GIC stay at home and rot? -
It is true, nationalism is nationalism and there is nothing one can do except taking all such problems into stride.Originally posted by tripwire:temasek is temasek... GIC is GIC...
the one that bought shin corp is temasek... not GIC.
the only similarity is that many heads in Temasek happens to be people related to the govt, such as ex-ministers, wife of PM and so on...
but they are still 2 separate entity.. though in most foreigners eyes.. they are 2 corporation answering to the same boss; singapore govt.
the quasi official face of temasek leaderships... gives foreigners the "excuse", rather then sound economic reason to resist temasek buyouts.
nationalism is an unavoidable part of buissness... and buissnessman, irreguardless of skin color or religion, have been known to stir up the heat to gain advantage in dealing with foreign investors.
just look at GULF PORT of UAE, when they bought P&O, after besting PSA (which laugh all the way to the bank), the americans came out in force and DEMANDED GP to hand over american ports, formally under P&O to AMERICANS!
and look at PCCW shares after besting singtel and bought HKT.... endless round of retrenchment.. and guess how much did their shares drop... like a meteor crashing to earth... and now their young boss are trying to flee the site of massacre by selling out.
thus... such resistance is omni present.. irreguardless if the entity if Temasek or GIC or any major investors from any part of the world...
should then temasek and GIC stay at home and rot?
In view of the past lessons and experiences, all who are in charge of taxpayers' monies nevertheless should learn and not be careless in investing hard earned monies of taxpayers except by proper accountable processes which can be explained to the taxpayers whenever necessary and called for.
I trust that lessons will be learned that investing in politically sensitive stocks have to be done by those who are extremely capable who could better look after all issues and problems.
This is the point - investing Singaporeans' monies in overseas venture has to be proceeded with extreme abilities and caution. -
tot GIC owns Temasek?
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To begin with, LEE thinks its his hard earn $$, and GIC belongs to him.. ALONE!Originally posted by robertteh:Citizens' monies are hard earned and should be invested wisely in accountable and transparent ....................... -
Friend if SIngapore laws apply to the world wide web yr pants will be sue offOriginally posted by siaokao:To begin with, LEE thinks its his hard earn $$, and GIC belongs to him.. ALONE! -
if it applied to www, most of us would already have lost our pants..Originally posted by NewAge:Friend if SIngapore laws apply to the world wide web yr pants will be sue off -
hah! its easy to remark at others failure after the events have come to pass... anybody can do that...Originally posted by robertteh:It is true, nationalism is nationalism and there is nothing one can do except taking all such problems into stride.
In view of the past lessons and experiences, all who are in charge of taxpayers' monies nevertheless should learn and not be careless in investing hard earned monies of taxpayers except by proper accountable processes which can be explained to the taxpayers whenever necessary and called for.
I trust that lessons will be learned that investing in politically sensitive stocks have to be done by those who are extremely capable who could better look after all issues and problems.
This is the point - investing Singaporeans' monies in overseas venture has to be proceeded with extreme abilities and caution.
every event differs from the next, who can tell if similar events will automatically give identical results?
if it is so easy to make a decision.... and predict the outcome of investments.. there wont be loosers in this world.. and we wont need leaders.
is there a foolproof way to ensure our investment dont ever go awry? if so.. please tell our PM..
risk adverse investments gives miserable returns... and guess who will be clamouring for blood when the annual report comes out at the end of the year. -
since when?Originally posted by siaokao:tot GIC owns Temasek?
temasek was set up long long ago to handle porforlios belonging to the singapore govt... such as SIA and DBS.
GIC was set up much later after the singapore forex reserves begins to grow oversize and they needed some reasonable returns for the forex they are holding.
Temasek cant touch our govt forex reserves and annual budget surplus... GIC however can.
thus they are not related and dont own each other.
temasek must self generate its own resources.. either from returns from past investment, selling of assets or raising bonds and debts in the market to finance its future investment.
GIC however... can easily dip into our reserves... and is under the purview of our esteemed MM LKY.
and GIC dont publish annual report... but annually you see our forex reserves rising... that is good enough for me.
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lets say LEE consider singapore his baby, if anybody fails his baby... he will hound down the fella who hurt his baby... that is good enough for me.Originally posted by siaokao:To begin with, LEE thinks its his hard earn $$, and GIC belongs to him.. ALONE!
and seriously... unless you can read another's mind, why would you trust another person over LKY?
we are a small country... already we are very "transparent", for national security we need to keep something under wraps... it aint right, it aint the best idea.. but we dont live in a perfect world.
so we need to accept the fact.. that some information is better to be kept in secret, even husband and wifes keeps secrets from each other, your boss keeps you from sensitive information...
its the way the world is... -
it does... under singapore laws.. you can be charged for various "computer" crimes such as expression of racism as well as libel against another person..Originally posted by NewAge:Friend if SIngapore laws apply to the world wide web yr pants will be sue off
people have been hauled up to court over such matter... and even if you are overseas... as long as they can proof their case.. they can even get the case heard in your country or have the interpol run you up.
being on the WWW... dont give you absolute freedom to do anything... otherwise... web based entities like EBAY would collapse under a mountain of denials. -
from another forum:
"lossUSD2 Billion loss in Shin Corp, USD1.8 Billion loss in CSM & STATS & Micropolis, USD5 Billion loss in Optus, USD0.25 Billion loss in Suzhou and these are the known mega-flops. Total is a USD9.05 Billion known loss - peanuts to the Lee family" -
so is someone going to stage a coup to stop all these losses?
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Singapore is a 41 year old "adult".. time to let go..Originally posted by tripwire:lets say LEE consider singapore his baby, if anybody fails his baby... he will hound down the fella who hurt his baby... that is good enough for me.
and seriously... unless you can read another's mind, why would you trust another person over LKY?
we are a small country... already we are very "transparent", for national security we need to keep something under wraps... it aint right, it aint the best idea.. but we dont live in a perfect world.
so we need to accept the fact.. that some information is better to be kept in secret, even husband and wifes keeps secrets from each other, your boss keeps you from sensitive information...
its the way the world is...