Mahathir Slams Kuan Yew As Arrogant
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so what if he is right no matters whatOriginally posted by #$%^&*:Both are wrong.
But I feel LKY is more wrong, because he started it first.
I WILL SUPPORT LKY!
just because for what he had done to singapore in the past -
You gotta admit that years before there was even PAP, Stamford Raffles already created this little miracle called Singapore with its free trade and ports.
The PAP just continued on what was already here.
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no one is discrediting for the past he's done lar, we are all talking bout the present situation, but to say someone is 'RIGHT' no matter what he's done presently because of his past contribution, then u might as well give Dura A FARKING BIG RAISE since he also contributed to the success of the NFK in the early days?? Geezz..Originally posted by leo-kun:so what if he is right no matters what
I WILL SUPPORT LKY!
just because for what he had done to singapore in the past -
Luxembourg's stable, high-income economy features moderate growth, low inflation, and low unemployment. The industrial sector, which was until recently dominated by steel, has become increasingly more diversified to include chemicals, rubber, and other products. Services, especially banking and other financial exports, account for the majority of economic output. Agriculture is based on small, family-owned farms. Luxembourg has especially close trade and financial ties to Belgium and the Netherlands and as a member of the EU, enjoys the advantages of the open European market. Luxembourg possesses the highest GDP per capita in the world (US$72,945 as of 2005), the fourth-highest HDI, and the fourth-highest quality of life.Originally posted by sgdiehard:surprised there are still people who think it is easy to manage small country, especially one without any resources. If size of country is what matters, than they could have singapore duplicated many times. Malaysia have penang, China is trying out with Hainan island. Indonesia should be able to create thousands of small singapore. IF, small state can be managed easily. How many countries in the world with population that less than 5 millions are on the map??
One thing is for sure, singapore, if not managed, democratically or not, WILL not survive. States of Malaysia, even managed badly, can still survive, may be just a little poorer. Look around at kelantan, trengaggu, Sabah, Sarawah, there is no multitude of people, the tremendous land is land of wealth. Only those who do not create wealth will find managing wealth difficult.
Total 2,586 km² (176th) (999 sq mi)
- Water (%) Negligible
Population
- 2005 est. 465,000 (168th) - 2001 census 439,539
GDP (PPP) 2005 estimate
- Total $29.37 billion (92nd)
Per capita $72,945 (2005) (1st) -
Mahathir simply cannot justify his statements about Malays being marginalised in Singapore.
We do not maintain university quotas limiting Malays entry into universities. We do not maintain quotas on scholarships based on racial identity.
Malays in Singapore are allowed to bear arms right from the start at BMT. I will admit that within the military force, malays are some sort marginalised in more sensitive formations and leadership positions. But this is not true for the rest of the government services.
Mahathir is just trying to stir up trouble on all fronts. At home, he picks a fight with Badawi. Within the region, he antagonises not only Singapore, but Indonesia somewhat as well. Internationally, he always criticises US and its allies.
You know how the saying goes. If 2 persons disagree and are having problems with each other, then it is hard to determine who's being diffcult. But if this same person is having problems with 5 other parties, then it becomes more obvious his troublemaking behaviour.
His friction with Singapore is, to a certain extent, understandable. But himself trying to discredit his own country's leader, the person he handpicked is just.. I don't know.. Just doesn't make sense. -
we shld be able to differentiate the difference btw the country. dun kinda think that malay in singapore are like what mahathir say of minimium society status. In fact Malays or Indians does play a very impt part in the building of our nation.
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Mahathir should stfu ..Singapore is Racial Harmony one..dont know anything want to criticise
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Wah, your geography is very poor man. How come you never mention that Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, Germany and Sweden are not in Asia? Please don't misunderstand leh. Singapore is the number one most competitive economy in Asia. Taiwan is number two. If you still don't understand, then let me rephrase: In the table, the Asian country with the highest ranking is Singapore.Originally posted by NiteSg:You mean you actually believe the statistics from that website? SG isnt really doing that great internationally. Nothing to be proud (or arrogant) of. We had always been made to think that we are number one. Since when had our government told us our local media is ranked 14xth. Whenever we cant compete internationally, they show us how we fare in Asia, followed by SEA. Its not hard to always be in the top 10 when u're competing with just 10 countries in the region.
BTW, spotted an error in the website..
Click to view image
US is part of Asia ?
Why should I not trust the website? It clearly states the source at the bottom of every table. If you have doubts about the authenticity, you can just copy and paste the source into google and check it out yourself.
Anyway, I don't feel arrogant about Singapore's achievements. But I certainly feel proud. What I don't get is, the government doesn't hide the facts when we are poor. Just that they will mention what we can be proud of more often. So, what's the problem.
http://www.sedb.com/edb/sg/en_uk/index/why_singapore/singapore_rankings.html -
I'm kind of pro-LKY, so forgive me if this sounds biased. What LKY has said is very true. Malaysia did marginalise its Chinese by having a set of rules for Malays and another for Chinese, and this includes their other minorities too. Indonesia did even worse. They used to restrict the Chinese by banning things like the celebration of CNY. This rule was only relaxed in the year 2000. Of course, there were a couple of other restrictions on the Chinese. Furthermore, LKY did not mention that the countries marginalise the Chinese now. But in the past, no one can argue that they didn't. Whether they do so now is up to them to debate.
Mahathir is only partially right. It is harder for Malays to reach some of the top positions in the government or army, but all else is equal. It has always been known that this is because our neighbours are Muslim states and this is to safeguard our interests. But all other things are equal between the majority race and minorities. There are no restrictions whatsoever in the private sector or the majority of the jobs in the government or army. -
Remember the Sidek bro that win the thomas cup? because they are malays, they are given land, house, cars and loads of money for winning the cup. When Lee Chong Wei who is the current no.1, what did he get?
The good thing is that I heard the Sidek are now bankrupt. -
In fact lots of chinese msia dont mind the bumiputra rules, cos the chinese are real capable.... and they are train to be more stronger and in fact more $$$ minded and earn more $$$.
Remember the mob in indonesia that killed lots of chinese and rob then off. There is political aim involved in the incident but it became so successfully is also due the the chinese there are too clever to earn $$$ where the local malays with many time the size are very poor. this lead to jealously. South Africa? So the bumiputra rules i to help the malays and somehow ease their unbalance feeling.... after all they are more populated and are the origin of this piece of lands.
I think Mahathir forgot to mention something.... currently in spore its not really malays that are marginalise but its Sporean. hahaha... angmoh enjoy 1st class status leh.... somemore they arent born here. local ppl are graded 2nd class... -
We have an understanding that if a minister is defamed and he does not sue, he must leave cabinet
I dont like these sentences, its just an excuse to silence other parties off. Uniquely singapore. Why politician from other countries can learn to be generous and forgiving?
If we didn't act against somebody who defamed us then it is not a matter of being generous and forgiving but the question arises if no action is taken, surely there must be some truth to it." -
Technically these facts are correct either historically or current. However, as a principle that one should not defame the reputation of a government (verbally procalimed by himself over the CSJ case), he is actually contradicting what he proclaimed and thus he's not any more righteous than CSJ stating the lack of Freedom of Expression. Perhaps LKY is exercising his own Freedom of Expression?Originally posted by kecang_puteh:I'm kind of pro-LKY, so forgive me if this sounds biased. What LKY has said is very true. Malaysia did marginalise its Chinese by having a set of rules for Malays and another for Chinese, and this includes their other minorities too. Indonesia did even worse. They used to restrict the Chinese by banning things like the celebration of CNY. This rule was only relaxed in the year 2000. Of course, there were a couple of other restrictions on the Chinese. Furthermore, LKY did not mention that the countries marginalise the Chinese now. But in the past, no one can argue that they didn't. Whether they do so now is up to them to debate.
Mahathir is only partially right. It is harder for Malays to reach some of the top positions in the government or army, but all else is equal. It has always been known that this is because our neighbours are Muslim states and this is to safeguard our interests. But all other things are equal between the majority race and minorities. There are no restrictions whatsoever in the private sector or the majority of the jobs in the government or army. -
Of all the things said against LKY and of all the misdeeds his critics claimed he has had done, or allege to have had done - lets be fair.
The old man knows his time is up soon. He wants to say things that many dare not say. It may be now or never. He was simply stating the facts - something everybody knows or acknowledges, whether openly or deep inside.
We hate the Japanese for rewriting History about WWII atrocities. Do we then not condemn people who refuse to acknowledge history as recent as two or three years ago, and even happening today???
Whether the Govts of our two huge neighbouring countries will do more to help their deprived "citizens" is something no other country can say. We, as close neighbours, can only watch and sympathise.
Don't just deny the facts. It is up to the accused party to prove his accuser wrong. Action speaks louder than words.
Finally, can anybody imagine the National Anthem of M'sia or Indo to be in Chinese
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I think you must understand the word defame. You can only defame someone if the accusations you make are either unfair or wrong. The definition is this: to attack the good name or reputation of, as by uttering or publishing maliciously or falsely anything injurious; slander or libel. If what LKY said can be backed up by evidence, then it is not considered to be defamation.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Technically these facts are correct either historically or current. However, as a principle that one should not defame the reputation of a government (verbally procalimed by himself over the CSJ case), he is actually contradicting what he proclaimed and thus he's not any more righteous than CSJ stating the lack of Freedom of Expression. Perhaps LKY is exercising his own Freedom of Expression? -
but mahathir is right in some of his words:
we are compliant
i'm still waiting to see how our lky resolves this matter.
will he apologise, given his overwhelming pride ?
he has to know he's not always right -
But in this case, he is right. So, why should he apologise? In fact, Mahathir is more wrong.Originally posted by I.M.ME:but mahathir is right in some of his words:
we are compliant
i'm still waiting to see how our lky resolves this matter.
will he apologise, given his overwhelming pride ?
he has to know he's not always right -
It says: the Chinese in Malaysia is being systematically marginalized!!Originally posted by Croaking_Toad:Penang state has a very high Chinese population compared to the Malays there. May be the highest in peninsula Malaysia. Not sure about Sabah and Sarawak. Do you think the government will want to develop the state any more that it is. It's deputy chief minister (who's malay obviously) is far more powerful that the chinese chief minister. What does that say?
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Case in point;Originally posted by kecang_puteh:I think you must understand the word defame. You can only defame someone if the accusations you make are either unfair or wrong. The definition is this: to attack the good name or reputation of, as by uttering or publishing maliciously or falsely anything injurious; slander or libel. If what LKY said can be backed up by evidence, then it is not considered to be defamation.
If you accuse me of something which you believe to be true, and that you have the facts to back it up, and supposing I'm as powerful as LKY and I block your every avenue of bringing these evidence against me and sue you for defamation instead.
Political Law, is never clean - nor just. -
Like in which case? Let me give you an example of defamationOriginally posted by ShutterBug:Case in point;
If you accuse me of something which you believe to be true, and that you have the facts to back it up, and supposing I'm as powerful as LKY and I block your every avenue of bringing these evidence against me and sue you for defamation instead.
Political Law, is never clean - nor just.
Defamation example: Dr Chee accusing the government of aiding in the corruption of NKF. He had no proof whatsoever.
I do not think NKF is in any way related to the government in its corrupted ways. Why? The government has influence over the judicial system. If they had been in cahoots with the NKF, they would never have let the lawsuit get as far as it did. TT Durai would never have revealed his salary if he had the backing of the Lees or the government. Besides, it is a great embarrassment to both the government and the country. -
Why so naive? The court case is just a show...Originally posted by kecang_puteh:Like in which case? Let me give you an example of defamation
Defamation example: Dr Chee accusing the government of aiding in the corruption of NKF. He had no proof whatsoever.
I do not think NKF is in any way related to the government in its corrupted ways. Why? The government has influence over the judicial system. If they had been in cahoots with the NKF, they would never have let the lawsuit get as far as it did. TT Durai would never have revealed his salary if he had the backing of the Lees or the government. Besides, it is a great embarrassment to both the government and the country.
And has our gov transparently SHOWN you all their inner workings???
Have they ever published anything clrearly in detail how they run everything, such as their GICs and GLCs??? -
You are absolutely right!!! Most politicians are not Angel, likewise, sg cabinet mini-stars are no exception.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Case in point;
If you accuse me of something which you believe to be true, and that you have the facts to back it up, and supposing I'm as powerful as LKY and I block your every avenue of bringing these evidence against me and sue you for defamation instead.
Political Law, is never clean - nor just.
A good government will enhance social and culture values, to shoulder bundens of its people with right value instead of always talking about businesses, profits and more profits, comparing income with private sectors, measuring monetary rewards against their performance and etc. Telling us and the world they deserve such ridiculous high salaries because they are clean and capable
Are they also telling us that all those Presidents, prime ministers and other mini-stars with low salaries, people like Geogre Bush, Bill Clinton, Koizumi and etc are corrupted....?
They got wrong and very wrong with life value. -
The political implications of the NKF were of greater interest to the public. Most were not interested in whether there were any links to the Ruling party, and in fact, the real reason why the Chees were sued was because they tried to associate the manner in which the NKF was run to that of the govt.Originally posted by kecang_puteh:Like in which case? Let me give you an example of defamation
Defamation example: Dr Chee accusing the government of aiding in the corruption of NKF. He had no proof whatsoever.
I do not think NKF is in any way related to the government in its corrupted ways. Why? The government has influence over the judicial system. If they had been in cahoots with the NKF, they would never have let the lawsuit get as far as it did. TT Durai would never have revealed his salary if he had the backing of the Lees or the government. Besides, it is a great embarrassment to both the government and the country.
There was speculation that while NKF had indeed become the darling of the govt in the way it was run (Health minister Khaw Boon Wan and several other ministers had in the past praised the efficiency of the NKF, only to say they felt 'silly' for supporting them later), they were dismantled with far more efficiency during and after the court case, leaves people wondering if it was simply a case of BIGGER DOG eating the SMALLER DOG.
Are you forgetting that Durai had no choice but to reveal his annual salary under cross-examination as that information had become privy to the defendants, being pertinent to the defamation suit itself? It is not a question of whether the conspiracy theory of the 'Lee's backing' existed at all, but whether Durai himself was above board.
Let's not forget that up till this point, he has not been charged with anything other than negligence of duties, duties which he claims he discharged to the best of his ability, while deflecting the rest of the blame to his board of directors. Up till this point, it has not been definitively proven that his extravagant salary was 'illegal', but merely shameful. -
He has been given more than one titles:Originally posted by Lighty:Mahathir always all talk no action one... Jus don care about him
(1) Loose Cannon
(2) Spin Doctor
At his age, his one foot already got buried into the ground,
still looking for fights with everyone
Doesn't know how to enjoy life at his age -
they can always come over as FTOriginally posted by tripwire:thats not the point... and unrelated.
as far as i see it.. base on his achievements... his opinions carries much weight.
and if you went to malaysian forum... 99.99% of malaysian chinese agreed with LKY statement..
and many malaysian chinese has called on LKY not to apologies since its the truth and they are the living proof of malaysian govt racist marginalization policies.
