Are Malays and minorities marginalize in S'pore?
-
Oh come on, we know how successful u and ur children are alright, so pls stop harping on it.Originally posted by foomwee88:I m an idiot n a stupid man!!! but with an analytical mind.
we r migrating to overseas soon for my sons n me r all professionals graduated from NUS!!!
It is no doubt that u r not a graduate cauz u wrote in such a poor commend of English w/o any resonings, I think u r either PSLE or GCE N level std.presently I think u r working 4 the Gods!!!
I dont know hve u been to European countries in where English doesnt worth 2 cents!!!
Yr english is neither good nor with a brain at all!!!llike a pig!!!so who is at fault,blame yrself loh 4 not studying hard just know how to carry balls!!!
Do U know why Japenese n Twanines speak so little english n we r falling behind them economically.
Let's not focus on individuals here and get back to topic. What's the topic huh? -
Hi,Originally posted by Croaking_Toad:To threadstarter, please quote your source the letter was published in. What is the newspaper's name? When was it published?
With grammar as such that has been pointed out by others here, either someone translated the contents from malay to english or it's made up entirely.
Prove the authenticity of the letter, before we continue this discussion. Don't fan the flame yet, people.
I can't prove the authenticity of the letter.
I think most Chinese Singaporeans do not think that minorities are not marginalized, and was hoping to hear comments from the minorities. Sometimes, the policies may not be, but the end-result may create such perceptions among minorities.
I wish to see good debate and not personal attacks.
If there are indeed certain marginalizations in Singapore, we should review them; or at least, be more conscious of them (from Chinese Singaporean point of view). If the points mentioned are untruths, we should dispel such myths/half-truths. -
hmm..
I feel that success isn't just purely based on academic achievements, it has a lot to do with one's inner fire to realize one's goal/s.
We have lots of uni grads now, and they're largely hard pressed to find jobs... thanks to our gov for giving them all to FTs.... -
Nonsense.Originally posted by ShutterBug:hmm..
I feel that success isn't just purely based on academic achievements, it has a lot to do with one's inner fire to realize one's goal/s.
We have lots of uni grads now, and they're largely hard pressed to find jobs... thanks to our gov for giving them all to FTs....
Jobs are aplenty.
You just need to dump your engineering, business degrees in the storeroom to go into the service sector and serve people their kopis or find out for them where to find size 4 in the ladies department.. -
There are no policies and laws that realistically make the malays a marginalised race in singapore, in fact the government makes an extra effort to help them.
The reason for the Malays' lower standing in politics and economy is the general carefree, uncompetitive(I hope this doesn't come out wrong) and laidback nature of the race. From what I can see, they seem to place a higher emphasis on their morals(?), religion and spirituality pursuits than power and material comforts. That is their choice, and many live with it. -
HARHARHARRRRR....heeeeheheheheeeeeee....!!!!Originally posted by charlize:Nonsense.
Jobs are aplenty.
You just need to dump your engineering, business degrees in the storeroom to go into the service sector and serve people their kopis or find out for them where to find size 4 in the ladies department..
SO much for higher educations! heheheheeeeeeee....!!!! -
You actually have a point there.Originally posted by crimson soldier:There are no policies and laws that realistically make the malays a marginalised race in singapore, in fact the government makes an extra effort to help them.
The reason for the Malays' lower standing in politics and economy is the general carefree, uncompetitive(I hope this doesn't come out wrong) and laidback nature of the race. From what I can see, they seem to place a higher emphasis on their morals(?), religion and spirituality pursuits than power and material comforts. That is their choice, and many live with it.
I personally find Malays more carefree, relaxed, and open minded - meaning not hyped up easily like most is Chinese....
I mean, I have Malays friends, they're cool, very forgiving not picky and nitty-gritty. Their far more pleasant to deal with in both social or business aspects.
Of course, I do come across some who are rather particular about everything because of the nature of their profession; such as Lawyers, Doctors, and such... they become accustomed to being VERY detailed in whatever they do.
Also, if you smile at a Malay stranger, you will be guaranteed a smile in return. Try smiling at a Chinese stranger - ... and you get the "Chio simi!" expression. -
My apology!! my reply is not aiming at all of u but a particular person.Originally posted by ShutterBug:hmm..
I feel that success isn't just purely based on academic achievements, it has a lot to do with one's inner fire to realize one's goal/s.
We have lots of uni grads now, and they're largely hard pressed to find jobs... thanks to our gov for giving them all to FTs....
100% agreed that academic achievements are nothing now in Spore n in developed countries,grads are now being employed as a cleaner or a hawker are nothing news.
My observation is from when I was doing my master degree in NUS 5 yrs ago when there r lesser n lesser malaysia chinese but in 1980s, our class comprising about 30 % students r from Malaysia, except the science faculty has more n more PRC chinese nationals now.
In addition, more n more Malay graduated from NUS,they r talented n also looked down their malaysia malay.In fact, female malay r now more indepentant than male malay.
In summary, I dont think Malay n minority in Spore are marginalised -
We Malays are taught the values of being content with what you have and not be too greedy to ask for more than what you need. I think those are good values to be kept - certainly greed is not a good trait one ought to have.Originally posted by crimson soldier:There are no policies and laws that realistically make the malays a marginalised race in singapore, in fact the government makes an extra effort to help them.
The reason for the Malays' lower standing in politics and economy is the general carefree, uncompetitive(I hope this doesn't come out wrong) and laidback nature of the race. From what I can see, they seem to place a higher emphasis on their morals(?), religion and spirituality pursuits than power and material comforts. That is their choice, and many live with it.
Unfortunately, too many Malays take those lessons to the extreme and use it as an excuse for mediocrity. Being contented is one thing; but pursuing greater heights of success and achievement is just as noble. It seems to me that the catchphrase 'tidak apa' ('it doesn't matter') is the order of the day. When 'tidak apa' becomes 'tidak apa-thy', mediocrity sets in.
And no, religion has nothing to do with it. If anything, Islam has always exhorted on its followers the pursuit of knowledge. So don't blame religion for Malay consistently faring the worst when it comes to education. And what with loose morals running rampant among the Malay youth these days (as an example, 30% of all teenage pregnancies are among Malay youths) - such acts certainly have no place in Islam.
I've seen far too many Malay youths complaining that 'we can never seem to do well', but upon my asking them, they all sheepishly admit to not putting in enough effort. Maybe they should start looking in the mirror before blaming others for their woes.
And before you guys start flaming me for being anti-Malay, let me say this first: I AM Malay. I am just sick and tired of our Malays complaining of mediocrity because of our supposedly being 'marginalised' when it is in fact the rampant 'tidak-apathy' mindset that's crippling my own race. -
2. Malays are "cordoned off" in National Service. Many key security sites are out-of-bounds to Malays [Even Malay Ministers and MP's are not allowed to enter such areas]
Very true... I'm serve as a military police during my NS life at a secret and small area of seletar camp. NO muslims or malays can enter our camp be it malay foreign workers or even malay senior officers. That's is very true.
-
The mediocrity of the Malays in Singapore is due to their own doing, not due to official policy.Originally posted by milk_milk:2. Malays are "cordoned off" in National Service. Many key security sites are out-of-bounds to Malays [Even Malay Ministers and MP's are not allowed to enter such areas]
Very true... I'm serve as a military police during my NS life at a secret and small area of seletar camp. NO muslims or malays can enter our camp be it malay foreign workers or even malay senior officers. That's is very true.
Still, as Ah Lau mentioned, while there is no official policy to marginalise Malays in Singapore, our defence policy with regards to Malays is indeed shady.
That was how I got disillusioned with the ruling party, by the way.
It sickens me to even think about it now. -
Just out of curiosity, would you shoot a fellow Muslim, albeit an enemy one, in time of war?Originally posted by fudgester:Still, as Ah Lau mentioned, while there is no official policy to marginalise Malays in Singapore, our defence policy with regards to Malays is indeed shady.
That was how I got disillusioned with the ruling party, by the way.
It sickens me to even think about it now. -
ohhh i knew that placeOriginally posted by milk_milk:2. Malays are "cordoned off" in National Service. Many key security sites are out-of-bounds to Malays [Even Malay Ministers and MP's are not allowed to enter such areas]
Very true... I'm serve as a military police during my NS life at a secret and small area of seletar camp. NO muslims or malays can enter our camp be it malay foreign workers or even malay senior officers. That's is very true.
and i've been there
can see the guard down there almost wet his pants
when he realise i'm a malay-muslim that had went in and out from the place
he turn white when he request 11b from me for the purpose of recording in/out and saw my race.
in the 1st place who ask him to be so bohchap to let me and my commander in the first place cause i look like a chinese?
lol -
my answer will be YESOriginally posted by Rock^Star:Just out of curiosity, would you shoot a fellow Muslim, albeit an enemy one, in time of war?
u can be the same religion as me
but when i see you as a threat to me, my family, my friends, my country
i do not have to think twice to pull the trigger -
Firstly, I must apologise for being so harsh on you. As you can see from my nick, I go out of control whenever I see such incredibly biased opinions.Originally posted by foomwee88:I m an idiot n a stupid man!!! but with an analytical mind.
we r migrating to overseas soon for my sons n me r all professionals graduated from NUS!!!
It is no doubt that u r not a graduate cauz u wrote in such a poor commend of English w/o any resonings, I think u r either PSLE or GCE N level std.presently I think u r working 4 the Gods!!!
I dont know hve u been to European countries in where English doesnt worth 2 cents!!!
Yr english is neither good nor with a brain at all!!!llike a pig!!!so who is at fault,blame yrself loh 4 not studying hard just know how to carry balls!!!
Do U know why Japenese n Twanines speak so little english n we r falling behind them economically.
Secondly, I do not know if your post is a joke, but I will try to answer the issues as sensibly as I can. I'm sure there are some poor and backward European countries where english isn't worth 2 cents, but are you sure that chinese will be worth 3 cents?
Taiwan and Japan are much larger countries with much larger populations than us. Besides, I do not know what made you think that Taiwan is doing economically better than us. If GDP per capita is a good gauge, than we rank higher than them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita
Whereas for Japan, there are some manufacturing industries they excel in that we cannot even dream of going into because of our size. An example would be their automobile manufacturing industry. For Singapore, we have to rely on areas such as tourism, shipping, bio-medical science and other forms of manufacturing. I think, so far, the government has done pretty well in sniffing out opportunities for Singapore. -
someone should start a 'my english is better than yourenglish thread'Originally posted by foomwee88:I m an idiot n a stupid man!!! but with an analytical mind.
we r migrating to overseas soon for my sons n me r all professionals graduated from NUS!!!
It is no doubt that u r not a graduate cauz u wrote in such a poor commend of English w/o any resonings, I think u r either PSLE or GCE N level std.presently I think u r working 4 the Gods!!!
I dont know hve u been to European countries in where English doesnt worth 2 cents!!!
Yr english is neither good nor with a brain at all!!!llike a pig!!!so who is at fault,blame yrself loh 4 not studying hard just know how to carry balls!!!
Do U know why Japenese n Twanines speak so little english n we r falling behind them economically.
Its only true to certain extend that u can be limited only in SOME WAYS if u lack English. however, being limited in ENGLISH does not generally mean you can;t and won;t be able to do anything much. like wat u stated, japan, taiwan, china, s.korea are good examples tat non english speaking economies are still doing very well than s'pore -
Personally, I won't like it, but if the fella's out to kill me, I can't be standing there inviting him to shoot me.Originally posted by Rock^Star:Just out of curiosity, would you shoot a fellow Muslim, albeit an enemy one, in time of war?
I will not shoot anyone as an agressor, be it Muslim or non-Muslim. But when it comes to self-defence I'll pull the trigger if I have to do so to defend myself and the ones I care for. I just hope I will never have to pull the trigger on anyone, regardless of their religion.
'Nuff said. This whole issue sickens me. You won't be hearing from me anymore. -
If there were Chinese in our neighbour's army and I have to kill them........really cannot imagine.Originally posted by Gent-X:my answer will be YES
u can be the same religion as me
but when i see you as a threat to me, my family, my friends, my country
i do not have to think twice to pull the trigger
Almost the same culture, slang, speak the same language and dialects.....aww......eat the same kind of food, I shudder to think of it. -
In times of war, u won;t have time to think.. its either kill or be killed..simple as tat..Originally posted by Rock^Star:If there were Chinese in our neighbour's army and I have to kill them........really cannot imagine.
Almost the same culture, slang, speak the same language and dialects.....aww......eat the same kind of food, I shudder to think of it. -
Hmm, my question was not specifically answered. Would u kill a fellow Malay across the causeway?Originally posted by fudgester:Personally, I won't like it, but if the fella's out to kill me, I can't be standing there inviting him to shoot me.
I will not shoot anyone as an agressor, be it Muslim or non-Muslim. But when it comes to self-defence I'll pull the trigger if I have to do so to defend myself and the ones I care for. I just hope I will never have to pull the trigger on anyone, regardless of their religion.
'Nuff said. This whole issue sickens me. You won't be hearing from me anymore.
I would hesitate to kill a fellow Chinese. Our defence policy towards Malays is not one out to marginalise. It is really an issue of sensitivity here. -
True.Originally posted by foomwee88:My apology!! my reply is not aiming at all of u but a particular person.
100% agreed that academic achievements are nothing now in Spore n in developed countries,grads are now being employed as a cleaner or a hawker are nothing news.
My observation is from when I was doing my master degree in NUS 5 yrs ago when there r lesser n lesser malaysia chinese but in 1980s, our class comprising about 30 % students r from Malaysia, except the science faculty has more n more PRC chinese nationals now.
In addition, more n more Malay graduated from NUS,they r talented n also looked down their malaysia malay.In fact, female malay r now more indepentant than male malay.
In summary, I dont think Malay n minority in Spore are marginalised -
Come to think of it, u r right. Just look at the civil war before China became communists. Then the Korean War and the Vietnam War. Oh and not forgetting the American Civil War. Hmm they kill because of ideology, what would we kill for should war break out? Perhaps our S'pore mee siam is more special than theirs cos we have hum?Originally posted by 4getmenot:In times of war, u won;t have time to think.. its either kill or be killed..simple as tat.. -
HARRHARRRHARRRRHAAAAA!!!!Originally posted by Rock^Star:Come to think of it, u r right. Just look at the civil war before China became communists. Then the Korean War and the Vietnam War. Oh and not forgetting the American Civil War. Hmm they kill because of ideology, what would we kill for should war break out? Perhaps our S'pore mee siam is more special than theirs cos we have hum?
Our political topics are full of hilarious slangs! -
By Mohd Haikal Isa
JOHOR BAHARU, Sept 28 (Bernama) -- The Malays in Singapore have been systematically marginalised since Lee Kuan Yew became Prime Minister, and the government under the city state's founding father also committed "ethnic Malay cleansing", said Singapore's veteran politician who migrated to Malaysia.
Prof Mohammed Yacob, who was political secretary to Singapore's second Chief Minister Lim Yew Hock, said the Malays were systematically marginalised since the People's Action Party (PAP) came to power in 1959.
According to Mohammed, the PAP reduced the Malay political power through the implementation of the government's housing policy.
He attested that Malays were uprooted from their villages and were resettled separately at various new townships including Tampines New Town, Bedok North and South, Toa Payoh and Ang Mo Kio.
"The PAP divided and ruled the Malays. The Malays were separated from each other and resettled in various housing estates so that they no longer have a political voice," he said in an interview with Bernama here.
"The PAP government used the racial quota system to re-organise the population of Singapore to weaken the Malays. Each housing estate must have 72 per cent Chinese, 16 per cent Malays and 12 per cent Indians and others."
The Malay political clout gradually diminished after the housing policy was implemented, he said.
"The PAP government also deliberately allowed the marginalisation of the Malay language and Malay schools to occur gradually and naturally.
"During the colonial rule, there were so many Malay schools in Singapore including in Kampung Gelam, Tanglin Kecil, Kampung Jaguh, Tanglin Besar and Kampung Melayu. The Tun Sri Lanang and Sang Nila Utama Malay schools were the pride of the Malays then.
"But when Singapore pulled out of the Federation of Malaysia in 1965, Lee Kuan Yew changed the education policy which resulted in the marginalisation of the Malays along with their schools and language.
"The policy emphasised on Mandarin and English... and today, Malay stream schools are no longer in existence in Singapore.
"In other words, the PAP government made a mockery of the constitution in paragraph 153 (2) which states that Bahasa Melayu is the national language of Singapore. PAP is committing ethnic Malay cleansing in Singapore," he said.
Mohammed sought refuge in Malaysia in 1978 after he heard that he was going to be arrested. He is now a Malaysian citizen.
Recently, Lee said Malaysia and Indonesia systematically marginalised their ethnic Chinese, sparking outrage among ethnic Chinese in both the countries.
-- BERNAMA
http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v3/news_lite.php?id=222287 -
Let me put it to you plainly then:Originally posted by Rock^Star:Hmm, my question was not specifically answered. Would u kill a fellow Malay across the causeway?
I would hesitate to kill a fellow Chinese. Our defence policy towards Malays is not one out to marginalise. It is really an issue of sensitivity here.
I won't like it, but I'll do it to defend myself and the ones I care for.
Fair enough?
And I still fail to see how the barring of Malays from sensitive installations has anything to do with the issue of killing another Malay.