2.The things i find not right are ,unfortunately to LazerLordz,Originally posted by LazerLordz:I can certainly give him his right to speech as long as he tries not to go overboard with his bashing of anything not Singaporean.
It's not about who's pro-this or anti-that. He doesn't have a very balanced point of view, and that's what's irritating me...
2. if u were leaders of countries and u feel defamed by individual orOriginally posted by wisefool83:On a different matter, the whole "sueing whoever dares to deframe me" thing is not a LKY patent, Machiavelli actually proposed it first in his "Discourses", and specifically say that the founding fathers of a city state should make use of the legal system to punish all those who defame them.
Originally posted by wisefool83:On a different matter, the whole "sueing whoever dares to deframe me" thing is not a LKY patent, Machiavelli actually proposed it first in his "Discourses", .....
Originally posted by lionnoisy:This may sound petty but it's defamed.
2. if u were leaders of countries and u feel [b]defeamed by individual or
medias ,what areyour options?
.....[/b]
I suspect it's coz the FEER article dared to give Chee a voice by interviewing him. After all, the govt-controlled media *has* been diligently portraying Chee as some kind of madman...Originally posted by BillyBong:It's high time our ministers and govt leaders accept the fact that criticism and fair comment are part of daily life. Their decisions and style of leadership are not infallible and some among the population and overseas are bound to disagree with them, even robustly.
The best form of defence is simply to rebut them. Else simply ignore their statements. Defamation suits become a lame excuse to stifle free speech. After all, there are many cases where New York Columnist William Safire was ignored despite writing repeated damning articles about Singapore, some of which were far worst and less objective than the recent comments by FEER.
Why wasn't he sued?![]()
Why are they insecure?Originally posted by spinsugar:I suspect it's coz the FEER article dared to give Chee a voice by interviewing him. After all, the govt-controlled media *has* been diligently portraying Chee as some kind of madman...
Old and Young Lee were notably riled at the "martyr" part in the Chee interview. Do they fear that Singaporeans will start to view Chee as such a martyr? Why are they so insecure about it?![]()
Yes, and so they have mastered the usage of Weapons of Mass DistractionOriginally posted by ShutterBug:Why are they insecure?
Oh I feel Chee has some truths, and he has questions the Lees would rather avoid answering
That's why...
In the first place, if I knew myself to be so easily riled up by things said in politics, I would have quit in the first place.Originally posted by lionnoisy:2. if u were leaders of countries and u feel defamed by individual or
medias ,what areyour options?
---detain them under ISA
---put them in cave of Sentosa to collect birds nests for leaders
---put in Woodbridges
---just shot them or hang them
---cancel their citizenship and send them to whoever
will accept them
---forgive and /or forget(remember 1000 lies become a fact)
---just sue them and the most make them bankcruptcy
..........
Leader,what is your best option if u feel defamed?
The last option is most civilised,thou not pleasant at all.
Double on that score....Originally posted by ShutterBug:Why are they insecure?
Oh I feel Chee has some truths, and he has questions the Lees would rather avoid answering
That's why...
Originally posted by gill_hfc:Correction is needed, as in larger nations with military traditions, it is not uncoomon to have father and sons becoming generals in succeeding generations.
There is some truth is the FEER article. How many dad's out there in the world can claim to have 2 Brigadier Generals as son's! Also everymorning on my drive thru Bukit Timah I wonder why the elite schools along the entire stetch of the Bukit Timah road hardly have any non-chinese faces visible!![]()
Originally posted by lionnoisy:What are the options available to you and I, if we are defamed by anonymous persons contributing to this sgForums ?
2. if u were leaders of countries and u feel defamed by individual or
medias ,what areyour options?
---detain them under ISA
---put them in cave of Sentosa to collect birds nests for leaders
---put in Woodbridges
---just shot them or hang them
---cancel their citizenship and send them to whoever
will accept them
---forgive and /or forget(remember 1000 lies become a fact)
---just sue them and the most make them bankcruptcy
..........
Leader,what is your best option if u feel defamed?
The last option is most civilised,thou not pleasant at all.
2.Want to change the place u live in mass scale,JoiningOriginally posted by LazerLordz:In the first place, if I knew myself to be so easily riled up by things said in politics, I would have quit in the first place.
Politics is not dining-in. It is a rough game, words will fly, and your voters will be convinced by your programmes, not how you fix your critics.

Originally posted by lionnoisy:Did Dr Sun made this statement ? And did you mention that CSJ said it too ? Did you link Dr Sun and CSJ to a common grand statement ?
2.Want to change the place u live in mass scale,Joining
Politics is the right way.only human Politics turns it to be dirty.
Founding father of Republic of China Dr Sun said''Politics belongs to
every one''.CSJ also said similiar things ,good.If we dunt chart
our future,the bad guys will do so.
Are you certain that joining politics in Sg is not dangerous - even especially when you have skeletons in your closet ?
3.Joining Politics in Sg is not as dangerous in other counytries.Like Low Thia Khiang and Chiam see Tong.Both of them self employed as contractor
and lawyer.But their life is ok.Have they been sued to bankcrupt?
Not yet.They know words like swords.![]()
Easier said than done.
4.To be a opposition party nowadays is much easier than the
old time.One click,your message is accessiable to many audiences.
Whether they will click and read is another issue.
5.To be a opposition party in a proper way will not shorten
your life.
However, the appearance that everything is going SingaporeÂ’s way is misleading. For one thing, the benefits of attracting fund managers are small. In this yearÂ’s budget, the government announced preferential tax treatment, meaning that the local coffers will only get a small bite of this growing pie. The local market may also get a slight boost, but the biggest pluses is the extra consumption and employment in the local economy. In fact, the bid is reminiscent of SingaporeÂ’s past efforts to attract targeted industries like the Internet or biotech. It usually ends up paying top dollar, and then repenting at leisure as it turns out that it jumped on the bandwagon too late.

On-board testing capabilities had become 'essential,' The Straits Times quoted fleet surgeon
Captain Charles Baxter as saying from Yokosuka, Japan.
He told the newspaper that the DNA-based test kit was one of the most advanced on the market.
It requires only a small blood sample from the test subject. Results are available in four hours, compared with 10 days for other kits.
they(LAU and CHIAM) will stand their ground when they know they have been wronged - (meaning they have successfully brought members of the ruling political party to court, as GCT had also to apologise for errors said).Docile:1. easily managed or handled; tractable: a docile horse.
Lastly, of course, being docile opposition members - they are not seen as an immediate potent threat to the established system, as they are seen to be playing by the rules created by and for the benefit of the Ruling Political Party.
CSJ challenged those arbitrary rules set by the POWER OF ONE, and he dare to question the established operating system with an even sharper focus on the issues then JBJ.
Similarly, like JBJ, CSJ had to be methodically and punishingly extinguished to prevent any other Singaporeans with like minded bravado in mind.
In this issue, academics Michael Barr and Garry Rodan take on two taboo subjects in Singapore: the racial composition of its educational system and the governmentÂ’s control of the local media. Mr. Barr examines whether SingaporeÂ’s claim to be a meritocracy stands up to scrutiny given the striking inequality between the races as shown by the educational advantages enjoyed by ethnic Chinese. Mr. Rodan looks at how the government controls the flow of information for the purpose of protecting and reinforcing the founding myths of the PAP regime.5.Mr Restall is really the saviour of oppressed 1.3 billion
These articles go straight to the heart of some of the most sensitive issues the Singapore government doesn’t want discussed: race, language, religion and culture. These topics are sometimes said to be “out of bounds.” As Mr. Lee Sr. once explained, “They are not cerebral matters which we can discuss in a Western salon. In our society, these are visceral matters. People take their religion very seriously. It is extremely dangerous to treat this just as another conversational subject.”
In comments reported by Singapore's The Straits Times newspaper Tuesday, Restall said the magazine planned to vigorously defend the lawsuit and hoped it would send a message to other countries such as China about controls over the media.----''FEER questions S'pore courts' right to hear Lees' lawsuits''
"That's one reason why it's important to fight this case, to prevent China from believing that if it adopts the Singaporean model, the international media is going to roll over and accept that, and tone down its coverage," Restall was quoted as saying in a talk on Monday to the Foreign Correspondents' Club in Beijing.
In comments reported by Singapore's The Straits Times newspaper Tuesday, Restall said the magazine planned to vigorously defend the lawsuit and hoped it would send a message to other countries such as China about controls over the media.I believe that the Chinese government better watch what they do. If the two Lees have to get their egos knocked to prevent a domino effect of press repression and furthering of totalitarian media control by Asian states, so be it.
"That's one reason why it's important to fight this case, to prevent China from believing that if it adopts the Singaporean model, the international media is going to roll over and accept that, and tone down its coverage," Restall was quoted as saying in a talk on Monday to the Foreign Correspondents' Club in Beijing.
Originally posted by lionnoisy:No, PAP was not sued, GCT was sued.
Said by Atobe:
"they(LAU and CHIAM) will stand their ground when they know they have been wronged - (meaning they have successfully brought members of the ruling political party to court, as GCT had also to apologise for errors said).
Lastly, of course, being docile opposition members - they are not seen as an immediate potent threat to the established system, as they are seen to be playing by the rules created by and for the benefit of the Ruling Political Party.
CSJ challenged those arbitrary rules set by the POWER OF ONE, and he dare to question the established operating system with an even sharper focus on the issues then JBJ.
Similarly, like JBJ, CSJ had to be methodically and punishingly extinguished to prevent any other Singaporeans with like minded bravado in mind."
........................................................................................
Docile:1. easily managed or handled; tractable: a docile horse.
2. readily trained or taught; teachable.
1.If GCT apologised to opposition party.Then PAP is not above the laws.
Unfortunately, the members of SDP looking at CST's track record did not see it in the same manner, and decided to vote against CST when CST refused to support CSJ's attempt to clear the 'supposedly false trump-up charges' made against CSJ by PAP's Vasso - who was the Head of the Faculty where CSJ was working.
2.'' being docile opposition members "Is it a insult to these 2 gentlemen?
The first priority of opposition party is to survive.
Like playing games,dunt make mistake.
There is no point to be a good horse but locked up!
i would rather to be an average horse and still can run.
CSJ made mistakes on purposes.Thats why he is OUT of the game.
They do so in a very meek way; with Singaporeans not even knowing about their efforts on any main public issues that are spoken louder in this sgforum.
3.LAU and CHIAM also'' challenged those arbitrary rules set by the POWER OF ONE.'' BUt they do it in way to survive and continue airing the voices for
people supporting them.
You should be surprised if the government will respond to this article, as the facts of the matter is as clear for all who have gone through the Singapore experience; unless you have sleep-walked through it all.
4.It will be suprised to me if government do not respond to[b] From the Editor: FEER Oct 2006,last issue in Spore
[quote]In this issue, academics Michael Barr and Garry Rodan take on two taboo subjects in Singapore: the racial composition of its educational system and the governmentÂ’s control of the local media. Mr. Barr examines whether SingaporeÂ’s claim to be a meritocracy stands up to scrutiny given the striking inequality between the races as shown by the educational advantages enjoyed by ethnic Chinese. Mr. Rodan looks at how the government controls the flow of information for the purpose of protecting and reinforcing the founding myths of the PAP regime.
These articles go straight to the heart of some of the most sensitive issues the Singapore government doesn’t want discussed: race, language, religion and culture. These topics are sometimes said to be “out of bounds.” As Mr. Lee Sr. once explained, “They are not cerebral matters which we can discuss in a Western salon. In our society, these are visceral matters. People take their religion very seriously. It is extremely dangerous to treat this just as another conversational subject.”
Someone, somewhere should test the Lee's lawsuit out of the Singapore Judiciary system under independently minded legal minds, even if we to based on Singapore legislations.
5.Mr Restall is really the saviour of oppressed 1.3 billion
Chinese in PRC
........................................................................................
In comments reported by Singapore's The Straits Times newspaper Tuesday, Restall said the magazine planned to vigorously defend the lawsuit and hoped it would send a message to other countries such as China about controls over the media.
"That's one reason why it's important to fight this case, to prevent China from believing that if it adopts the Singaporean model, the international media is going to roll over and accept that, and tone down its coverage," Restall was quoted as saying in a talk on Monday to the Foreign Correspondents' Club in Beijing.----''FEER questions S'pore courts' right to hear Lees' lawsuits''
The Associated Press,10 Oct 06.
Originally posted by Atobe:2.Who appoint ferderal judges in G8 like,US,UK,France,Germany etc?
With every judges' [b]appointment, performance and term of office being decided by the Political Leadership, can there be any independence of the Judiciary ?
[/b]
In your statement concerning the G8 countries, will you seriously include Russia ? Can we compare the Russian Politico-Judicial system (which remains largely a hangover from the Soviet days) to the other G8 countries ?Originally posted by lionnoisy:2.Who appoint ferderal judges in G8 like,US,UK,France,Germany etc?
I think also decided by the Political Leadership!!
The separation of powers is an established constitutional principle. It dictates that, in order to prevent the accumulation of too much power in one person or decision-making body, there must be some separation of the three branches of the constitution: the Executive, the Legislature and the Judiciary. If this is not achieved, there is a danger that absolute power will be vested in one individual, which could lead to inefficiency and corruption.
The theory of separation of powers has been developed by writers as far back as Aristotle, who, writing in the 4th century BC, recognised that the “rule of a master is not a constitutional rule”(see footnote 1) and that government has three functions. He opined that government intervention is necessary because of human imperfection; however it should be limited to ensure that government vests as far as possible in the people. The classic formulation of the theory of separation comes from the writings of the 18th-century philosopher the Baron de Montesquieu. In his 1752 work L’Esprit des Lois (The Spirit of the Laws), he explained that there are three functions of government and three main organs of government.
In order to protect individual liberty, the three functions of government – the formulation, the application and the enforcement of the law – should be kept separate and performed by the three organs of government – the Legislature, the Executive and the Judiciary. The structure should provide a system of checks and balances between the different branches to ensure that no one body can monopolise power in order to abuse it. Political theorists have long pointed out the dangers of non-observance of the separation of powers. According to Article 16 of the French Declaration of the Rights of Man of 1789, drafted after the overthrow of the despotic King Louis XVI, ‘Any society in which the safeguarding of rights is not assured, and the separation of power is not observed, has no constitution.’
There is some debate as to whether a just constitution can accommodate an overlap of personnel between the different branches. To take two examples, the UK constitution displays a considerable overlap of personnel, not the least of whom is the Prime Minister. He is the head of the executive, but is also a Member of Parliament, hence drawn from the body of the legislature. He is therefore responsible for proposing legislation and can ensure its passage through Parliament by use of the party whip system and his Parliamentary majority.
In contrast, the Constitution of the United States clearly stipulates that there can be no overlap of personnel. Article 1 of the US Constitution vests the Legislative power in Congress, Article 2 vests the Executive power in the President and Article 3 vests the judicial power in the Supreme Court and other inferior courts. Further, the Constitution states that there can be no overlap of personnel between the different functions. That the US Constitution adheres to MontesquieuÂ’s strict model of separation is unsurprising: it was produced in 1787, just 25 years after the Esprit des Lois was published, and the draftsmen were well-versed in MontesquieuÂ’s constitutional theories.
The judiciary
In the UK, the courts play a vital role in ensuring that the government adheres to the rule of law. This is a role that has developed throughout history. As far back as 1765, a prominent English judge, pointed out that a government may not act unless it is in accordance with the law, and it is for judges to decide whether the government possesses such a legal right:
“If it is law, it will be found in our books. If it is not to be found there, it is not law… By the laws of England, every invasion of private property, be it ever so minute, is a trespass. No man can set his foot upon my ground without my license… If he admits the fact, he is bound to show by way of justification, that some positive law has empowered or excused him. The justification is submitted to the judges, who are to look into the books; and if such a justification can be maintained by the text of the statute law, or by the principles of common law. If no excuse can be found or produced, the silence of the books is an authority against the defendant, and the plaintiff must have judgment.”
Lord Chief Justice Camden in Entick v Carrington (1765)
