Foreign talent - how should those served NS be compensated?
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Although I agree with the foreign talent concept, we Singaporean males did serve 2-2.5 yrs of NS plus 13 yrs of reservist, up to a maximum of 40 days a year.
It involves a lot of sacrifices to job, family, time and even personal injury/death!
How do you think we should be compensated, now that there is aggresive poaching of foreign talents to Singapore? -
We should be compensated 40/365 of the total salary of foreign talents per year.Originally posted by PoRen:Although I agree with the foreign talent concept, we Singaporean males did serve 2-2.5 yrs of NS plus 13 yrs of reservist, up to a maximum of 40 days a year.
It involves a lot of sacrifices to job, family, time and even personal injury/death!
How do you think we should be compensated, now that there is aggresive poaching of foreign talents to Singapore?
And this should come from their taxes ?
Depending which FTs you are griping about ? The compensation will be more or less? -
I can see that our gov is painting themselves into a corner with their money-centered policies...
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I sense a feeling of bitterness. I too, feel unfair, especially when I served 2.5 years of my life away. Bet this is the same feeling all male Singaporeans felt. Why us? How many two years can we give away? This cannot be measured by money. There is no way those 2 years are coming back. No form of compensation is ever enough.
However, if FTs are not sought after and kept in Singapore, they could be working for other countries and be contributing to their economy instead of ours. Would you rather see that? It is unfair but that's how Singapore works.
As long as our economy does not suffer as a result, knowing that my kids can be safe and not go hungry, that'll be more than enough for me. -
Abolish annual IPPT!!!
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money centered policies = money centered society = money centered people
Well, it is your duty to serve your country right? A virtue such as patriotism can't be bought by money.
So where is your patriotism? Are you questioning the patriotism and sense of duty of yourself and your fellow Singaporeans? -
Patriotism can be shown in many ways than just putting away 2 years of your life. There're tons of examples where people showed their patriotic side in their respective fields and not just army. To die for your country is not the only way.Originally posted by Quincey:money centered policies = money centered society = money centered people
Well, it is your duty to serve your country right? A virtue such as patriotism can't be bought by money. So where is your patriotism? Are you questioning the patriotism and sense of duty of yourself and your fellow Singaporeans? -
Instead of dying for the country, why not live for the country? This is one answer I remember best after hearing it during BMT when posed to the recruits by the officers.Originally posted by kaister:Patriotism can be shown in many ways than just putting away 2 years of your life. There're tons of examples where people showed their patriotic side in their respective fields and not just army. To die for your country is not the only way. -
Well, I apologise for not making my stand clear enough. I was just reflecting, in fact playing around with the common arguement that will be brought into the equation by ardent proponents of national service. Yeah, I get a sense that many feel kinda short changed by this new FT innovation, esp us males who gave away 2 yrs of our youth. It will mean that individuals who do not require to fulfil NS requirements, getting the same rights as individuals who had to fulfil the mandated requirements. In order to broaden this discussion, I'll like to bring up two points for consideration. Firstly, foreign talents deserve citizenship base upon the talent they'll propsectively contribute or has contributed to our society. Secondly, shouldn't we Singaporeans look at this matter objectively and realize that it is for the common good that this policy must stand? I'll like to emphasize that this isn't my stand, but I'll just like to read the views of the people in this forum.
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Simple, adopt a pro-rated NS system for new immigrants, similar to the National Guard system where they train on weekends.
We must weed out those who are willing to stay here and are committed, from those who want to treat us like a stepping stone to elsewhere. -
I can bet my every single dollar that no one will want to come singapore if this happensOriginally posted by LazerLordz:Simple, adopt a pro-rated NS system for new immigrants, similar to the National Guard system where they train on weekends.
We must weed out those who are willing to stay here and are committed, from those who want to treat us like a stepping stone to elsewhere. -
Wouldn't tat be a disinsentive for attracting new talent. Afterall the immigrant honcho said that we were competing with other countries for talent.
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Furthermore, making them suffer does not make the whole issue right.
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I think it's more of us changing our mentality towards the whole issue, and they tightening up the screening process and not just letting any tom, dick or harry into the citizenry.
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That will be the key factor in determining what is our real attractiveness. If immigration suddenly drops, it just proves one thing, that we have spent millions on trying to make ourselves seem global, but we are just not plugged into the world, and just increasingly anachronistic with our double-speaking establishment talking big about being a global city while trying to run domestic politics with a big rotan that does nothing but inspire jokes and parodies all the time.Originally posted by Quincey:Wouldn't tat be a disinsentive for attracting new talent. Afterall the immigrant honcho said that we were competing with other countries for talent.
If these people find Singapore a truly great place to settle down, they won't mind serving their new nation. I prefer quality migrants with the right kind of values, not trash that do not appreciate and bother to integrate into our society. We do not run a charity here. -
Protecting your new home is called suffering? something must be wrong with the migrant's values then.Originally posted by kaister:Furthermore, making them suffer does not make the whole issue right. -
I totally agree on having double standards and not truly plugging into the world. However, I don't really think we can ever find immigrants that are interested in our values.Originally posted by LazerLordz:That will be the key factor in determining what is our real attractiveness. If immigration suddenly drops, it just proves one thing, that we have spent millions on trying to make ourselves seem global, but we are just not plugged into the world, and just increasingly anachronistic with our double-speaking establishment talking big about being a global city while trying to run domestic politics with a big rotan that does nothing but inspire jokes and parodies all the time.
If these people find Singapore a truly great place to settle down, they won't mind serving their new nation. I prefer quality migrants with the right kind of values, not trash that do not appreciate and bother to integrate into our society. We do not run a charity here.
If you've been to other countries, you'll realise that this is a problem plaguing almost every developed country. To find immigrants who have the right kind of values and wants to contribute wholeheartedly is like finding a needle in the haystack. EVERY immigrant that comes to Singapore has something to gain from their move. It's a symbiotic relationship. We have something for them, they come over. No emotions or love involved.
The sad fact of life is you won't get true talents who should be doing well in their own countries unless you throw in a lot of goodies for them. -
Still, for the sake of the citizens, the state owes it to them to make an effort right? We are not talking of absolute perfectness for sure, but we are seeking migrants to stay, not part time employees.Originally posted by kaister:I totally agree on having double standards and not truly plugging into the world. However, I don't really think we can ever find immigrants that are interested in our values.
If you've been to other countries, you'll realise that this is a problem plaguing almost every developed country. To find immigrants who have the right kind of values and wants to contribute wholeheartedly is like finding a needle in the haystack. EVERY immigrant that comes to Singapore has something to gain from their move. It's a symbiotic relationship. We have something for them, they come over. No emotions or love involved.
The sad fact of life is you won't get true talents who should be doing well in their own countries unless you throw in a lot of goodies for them.
I think we've got to develop our socio-political aspects of Singaporean life, or else we will lose out comparatively in the future. Economics do not keep people here for good, quality of life does. And we have to see what needs to be improved on that chart and work towards it.
One big stain on our quality of life index is the political aspect. This is already a grievance with our English-educated young generation, what makes you think potential migrants don't consider that? (leave aside those who are only interested in making a fast buck here and fark off to wherever after that)
Points worth considering. Are we truly a global city or are we marketing ourselves as something the govt dares not push in a full-spectrum way for fear of loss of power and unspoken control derived from the past depoliticisation of Singaporean society through collaborative measures with the mainstream media.
Nothing exists in a vacuum, and it is inevitably that things will change. When people try to calibrate the amount of change coming in, something else in the system will have a hiccup..
Apologies if this has become so roundabout a discussion
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NSmen should have their tertiary education subsidised, or give NS points more weightage in determining entry. Its only 5% now, even with CCAs factored in.
Hardly fair that we do our 2 years without complaint and come back to find our places in the university taken up by foreigners, most of whom are likely to return to their own countries after getting their degrees. -
Good suggestion! We're already lagging behind our peers for 2 years. Some sort of benefits should be given.Originally posted by Typhoon:NSmen should have their tertiary education subsidised, or give NS points more weightage in determining entry. Its only 5% now, even with CCAs factored in.
Hardly fair that we do our 2 years without complaint and come back to find our places in the university taken up by foreigners, most of whom are likely to return to their own countries after getting their degrees. -
Okay, I wasn't being entirely honest when I wrote "without complaint."
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Singaproe has indeed become a 'stopover'
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Won't it be a good idea that my son be born a Johorean, then study and work in Singapore?
Enjoy the benefits but no obligation to the country. -
if not...increase tthe incentives!Originally posted by ditzy:Abolish annual IPPT!!!
pass - S$500/-
silver - S$1000/-
gold/ monetary - S$4000/-
anyone who take the test (even oif fail) - S$100/-
i dun mind doing annual ICT/non-ICT IPPT up to 45 years old
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If this is true, I will run everyday.Originally posted by pipipopo:if not...increase tthe incentives!
pass - S$500/-
silver - S$1000/-
gold/ monetary - S$4000/-
anyone who take the test (even oif fail) - S$100/-
i dun mind doing annual ICT/non-ICT IPPT up to 45 years old