Can we make legal claims against Indonesia for the Haze?
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It is not new, and it has recur, is recurring and will recur.
Can the neighbouring countries make claims against Indonesia for the haze, the opportunity cost and health hazard cost from them? International Court can preside over this? -
I think its a fair return for what LKY said.
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ah, send F16s to nuke their loggers....
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no it isn't, if they want to take revegne go kill him or something.Originally posted by ditzy:I think its a fair return for what LKY said.
he made the speech after all, even if he was speakign the truth. on the other hand, i realy doubt if the indonesian govt is really doing something about the burnings and wish things could eb done but oh well -
Why need to nuke... It won't solve anything... I'd say give us Sumatra and we'll call it even...Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:ah, send F16s to nuke their loggers.... -
making a claim and then getting something out of probably won't happen....i don't think they'd even apologize because then they'd be admitting fault and open themselves up to monetary claims.
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It's not about admitting mistakes. Even if we win, the Indonesians don't have the money to pay up.Originally posted by skid:making a claim and then getting something out of probably won't happen....i don't think they'd even apologize because then they'd be admitting fault and open themselves up to monetary claims. -
hmmm, tat's quite trueOriginally posted by kaister:It's not about admitting mistakes. Even if we win, the Indonesians don't have the money to pay up.
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well, we could burn down all those trees for once and for all and we wont get bugged by the smoke any more...Originally posted by MohamedF:Why need to nuke... It won't solve anything... I'd say give us Sumatra and we'll call it even... 
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They grow back every year... that's why we get smoke every single year.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:well, we could burn down all those trees for once and for all and we wont get bugged by the smoke any more...
But burning all at once can create PSI >200... then no need to go school or work liao -
It's their way of life la. Even if u sue them, the Indonesian government warns them, they'll still continue with their way of life. It's the same as telling Singaporeans to stop land reclaimation or Malaysians to stop building their protons. So, just hope that the wind direction would change and at the same time send more SCDF ppl to help them out la.
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Spray Vegetation Growth Retardent over illegal and recalcitrant plantation owners land!
Stop any growth, and there is nothing to burn!!
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Way back in 1997-1999, the world was involved in helping Indonesia put out their forest and plantation fires. Various specialists from different countries were sent there, and from feedback they experienced RESISTANCE from locals of them stopping their fires!Originally posted by Quincey:It's their way of life la. Even if u sue them, the Indonesian government warns them, they'll still continue with their way of life. It's the same as telling Singaporeans to stop land reclaimation or Malaysians to stop building their protons. So, just hope that the wind direction would change and at the same time send more SCDF ppl to help them out la.
I feel the only effective means is to slap Indonesia with a Sanction; bar them from all trades and commerce so that they have no purpose to slash and burn. Until they can prove that they have a better way than slash and burn, or are able to control fires, only then the sanction be lifted.
This is the best way. -
To be JUST, all claims from the region should be born by logging companies in Indonesia who were found to be responsible for the fires and the resultant haze. Not the country Indonesia.Originally posted by sgboy2004:It is not new, and it has recur, is recurring and will recur.
Can the neighbouring countries make claims against Indonesia for the haze, the opportunity cost and health hazard cost from them? International Court can preside over this?
Each time any company is caught for starting fires, sue them BANKRUPT.
In time, no one would dare light a single match.... -
i really wonder what Indonesia has done, and after all the years of talks, what have the ASEAN ministers, or even World Ministers have done to this?
Such massive forest fire not only create the haze, adding poison to the air and detrimental to the health of the world and the planet, and might even accelerate whatever global catastrophies...
Where are all the Green peace movement people, and where does the international law stand on this? -
to fire a missile over another country's airspace is an act of war. burning forests and causing polution and health hazrds to the neighbouring countries is also not much different from an act of war and genocide!
when their country encounter disaster the world and the close neighbours responded. when the neighbouring countries are affected by what was caused by their country and people did they even responded? -
You guys should go buy and read today's SUnday Times; Indonesia is getting Left-Right-Center from all over the region.
Now I heard even Australia is getting the haze too!
Too all the blasting from surrounding countries, Indonesia remarked; "What more can we do??" -
yah, it is indeed sad that they give such a response.Originally posted by ShutterBug:You guys should go buy and read today's SUnday Times; Indonesia is getting Left-Right-Center from all over the region.
Now I heard even Australia is getting the haze too!
Too all the blasting from surrounding countries, Indonesia remarked; "What more can we do??"
It is not as if the whole saga started only yesterday, but umpteen years ago... and what is their so-call minister doing about the whole issue? Legislation can b passed easily...the headache is the enforcement.... and if this fails, got to be proactive... instead of punishing and siphoning the culcript, technological means of "deforestation" without harm to the environment should be sought and introduced to the people: incentives to be passed to them when they use such methods... it will take time though...but got to start somewhere. -
u r dead rightOriginally posted by pipipopo:to fire a missile over another country's airspace is an act of war. burning forests and causing polution and health hazrds to the neighbouring countries is also not much different from an act of war and genocide!
when their country encounter disaster the world and the close neighbours responded. when the neighbouring countries are affected by what was caused by their country and people did they even responded?
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yes this may be feasible and they just hav to giv it a try. the government can pass down legislation if not the funds can be used to hire workers and companies to bring down part of the forests so that future fires can be contained and prevent from spreading and the land segregated. it will giv jobless ppl things to do and work the brain instead of letting it drift into the delusional rendezvous with 'God'.Originally posted by sgboy2004:yah, it is indeed sad that they give such a response.
It is not as if the whole saga started only yesterday, but umpteen years ago... and what is their so-call minister doing about the whole issue? Legislation can b passed easily...the headache is the enforcement.... and if this fails, got to be proactive... instead of punishing and siphoning the culcript, technological means of "deforestation" without harm to the environment should be sought and introduced to the people: incentives to be passed to them when they use such methods... it will take time though...but got to start somewhere.
otherwise we can hav a bid for countries to come up with proposals to maintain the forests..let someone spearhead this co-ordination...say like someone very free in sg and highly paid - ah Lee? -
utter disappointment in this issue of haze... our such highly paid ministers are not proactive...always wait until the haze come then make noiseOriginally posted by pipipopo:yes this may be feasible and they just hav to giv it a try. the government can pass down legislation if not the funds can be used to hire workers and companies to bring down part of the forests so that future fires can be contained and prevent from spreading and the land segregated. it will giv jobless ppl things to do and work the brain instead of letting it drift into the delusional rendezvous with 'God'.
otherwise we can hav a bid for countries to come up with proposals to maintain the forests..let someone spearhead this co-ordination...say like someone very free in sg and highly paid - ah Lee? -
U must be aware that the haze this yr seems more mild that the one back many years ago. The one then was about more than 200PSI. The one now is the most 100++. Thus some measures and steps must have already been enforced to ensure there is no burning of forest. But being a large country law enforcement is definitely more of a challenge. It is not like SG when 3ppls protest outside CPF building immediately got 40 riot police come and chase them.
Beisdes burning forest to clear land for various development works have existed for many centuries. If one remembers sec3 geography this is known as subsitent farming. In which the farmers burns the forest to clear land for plantations. Bcos those who have seen how thick the rainforest is, not your bukit timah. You will noe it is impossible to clear it by log-felling the trees. -
you have ten years..i giv u ten years cut the bloody trees and build walls or roads or wide path ways in between...what better ways to spead the money and keep ppl employed? we can;t clar them all in a week , a month or a year..then let it be a generation's goal...make it a long tern goal for the country...make it a commitment!Originally posted by equlus84:U must be aware that the haze this yr seems more mild that the one back many years ago. The one then was about more than 200PSI. The one now is the most 100++. Thus some measures and steps must have already been enforced to ensure there is no burning of forest. But being a large country law enforcement is definitely more of a challenge. It is not like SG when 3ppls protest outside CPF building immediately got 40 riot police come and chase them.
Beisdes burning forest to clear land for various development works have existed for many centuries. If one remembers sec3 geography this is known as subsitent farming. In which the farmers burns the forest to clear land for plantations. Bcos those who have seen how thick the rainforest is, not your bukit timah. You will noe it is impossible to clear it by log-felling the trees.
well if sg gahmen says sg very small in a war willlose anyway so all no need to serve ns lor...but i say if i lose and die i die like a man.
if the Qing dynasty in ancient china said what a vast land we have to cover to prevent the babarians from the northern highland's constant intrusion to build walls over the knolls and hills then most probably the great wall of china would not have been oone of the 7 wonders of the world.
its all up to the mind and hope you believe in it....not your beliefs! -
stealing 50 cents does not make it a lesser of a crime than stealing a $1000. When human and animal lives are at stake, it counts...every cubic volume of fresh air countsOriginally posted by equlus84:U must be aware that the haze this yr seems more mild that the one back many years ago. The one then was about more than 200PSI. The one now is the most 100++. Thus some measures and steps must have already been enforced to ensure there is no burning of forest. But being a large country law enforcement is definitely more of a challenge. It is not like SG when 3ppls protest outside CPF building immediately got 40 riot police come and chase them.
Beisdes burning forest to clear land for various development works have existed for many centuries. If one remembers sec3 geography this is known as subsitent farming. In which the farmers burns the forest to clear land for plantations. Bcos those who have seen how thick the rainforest is, not your bukit timah. You will noe it is impossible to clear it by log-felling the trees. -
The forests can be splitted into sectors:-
each sector will be separated by routes or clearing paths wide and accessible enough for land fire fighting vehicles. each sector named so that in the event of a fire they can be pin-pointed. in the event of a fire it will be prevented from spreading to other sectors since fuel and sources that feed the fires are cut off and contained withhin one sector.
as shown:-
jobs created and usable timber from the deforestation if not sold for a profit. it may not show results in a year but they just have to kepp it going. Who owns the land? the government of indonesia or private owners? if they want to profit from the land then they have to do a proper deforestation...and comply to ISO14001! hehe