Re : Govt should relook income qualifying levels
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So you pay extra to move into a condo...and every month you pay extra again to enjoj the facilities including car parking....isn't paying extra and extra PAP just like the policy everyone hates? Now i know one can break out of it...just that one chose not to.Originally posted by BillyBong:Like i said, for the lump sum price of monthly season tickets for a single car at any HDB carpark, one can consider topping up a little more to get the benefits of gym/pool/tennis courts etc. And of course, car-parking will also be covered under that rate.
That's the primary reason why more people with dual income are seriously migrating to private apartments. The difference in cost for some units has reached such a new low that it may not be worth purchasing a re-sale flat at all. -
if he chose not to disclose and with supporting accounting documentation of his debts and monthly expenses no one can help him. figures tell the truth. if their cause is just they can bring the accounts over to the authorithy for review...case to case help may be rendered to the family affected. otherwise its just words and eords can be manipulated.Originally posted by BillyBong:No. The point of argument is not over the monetary value of his 8K dual income, but rather WHY WOULD an 8K dual earning family face such difficulty?
To simple folks, a naive reasoning would be that he's a poor financial planner.
Based on the assumption that he contributes half of the 8K wage package and the fact that he got his article published, all points to a well-paid professional with a decent command of the language. He certainly doesn't sound like some idiot who loss his money to gambling.
It is more than likely that aspects of his family life make it impossible to fully utilize all of his earnings to his full benefit, circumstances he has chosen not to include in his article. -
Since as pointed out the couple are educated and wise people so i guess bringing the child out of the 'bahasa' and child deliquence shhould not be a problem. moreover it depends on how a family plans time off with kids so that they stay attached to the mother and father. the couple is wise so that should rule out this minor problem. like i wrote before if you can't even take care of kids like u manage your staff, how the hell will yr boss pay you to raise your status to an '8k duet'?Originally posted by anonymouscoward:When the couple have children, one parent will be effectively out of job. Have anyone considered that?
Both parent continue to work. Hire a maid? So the children can learn to speak bahasa better English? Or let them grow up with grandparents and become child deliquence? Look at the current society and look at how many problem child comes from families where they do not get attention from their parents.
Like what BillyBong said, analysis and read between the lines. I think this couple knows what they are doing and don't want to have kids for the sake of having it. They probably have no problem with their current lifestyle without children but read that they are facing these challenges now because they want to have children. They may be thinking of downgrading for the sake of the child but kenna jammed by HDB ruling.
If they are as educated as BillyBong says, they probably did a lot of planning for what's best for their kid. And what's best needs money. These are acts of responsible parents.
Of course, anyone can live reasonably well with $8000. Our bloody Gahmen gives us only $350 a month when we retire. But should we go back to the stone age? People progress, not regress.
As for the thread starter. I think you should improve your English and read carefully. Where did the author claim credit for Singapore success? He is just saying that he did his part also and should deserve the same benefits as others. Maybe you're just jealous about them earning $8000.
We should not be blinded by anger just because this couple makes "slightly" more than $8000 a month. If he makes like $20k then he should go to hell but throw at stone in Raffles Place and there's a 90% chance it'll land on someone earning more than $4000 a month.
$8000 alot or not I don't know lah. Depends on how you spend. But for a MacDonald's meal to cost between $6-7 nowadays and $1.50 for a freaking mug of coke, I think that $8000 mark that has been there for ages need to be moving upwards.
the government is not intersted in raise the income level of the rich...itsup to the individual rich to be resourceful ennough to make themselve richer. the government is concerned about the widening income gap of this as compared to the poor. -
from the view of 8k income and excess used in claculation for tax payments...breaking them down into instalments the couple need only to pay less than 200 per month. if they can pay their utility bills, they can also pay for their parents' utility bills i guess. unless of course there are other figures or properties or investment taxable in the declaration.Originally posted by anonymouscoward:I would interprete reluctantly as - they want to buy HDB but cannot, no choice so buy private instead.
From the letter, the author is saying they got no savings because of this. That where their problem is.
I think you may be right about the negative equity thingy and they probably can't sell their home now. so cannot have children.
But I don't think the author is whinning. The can simply have children later. But the author is trying to highlight the issue that they also pay tax, so why penalize them for working hard and earning more money? they also singaporean so deserves the benefit - just like citizen in PP deserves upgrading also. -
Originally posted by pipipopo:
8k is 2 person pay combine, U know got think call carry balls and B.S?
[b]
like i wrote before if you can't even take care of kids like u manage your staff, how the hell will yr boss pay you to raise your status to an '8k duet'?
[b] -
in fable and tales the righteous rob the evil stinking rich to help the poor. one good thing rich ppl did in this life was to forge some money out of their pockets to service the poor and under privileged.Originally posted by anonymouscoward:I think this is a case of the age old argument...
Higher income = pay more tax <> equal benefits.
This is Singapore. Government trying to keep everyone poor. Look at the policies. In plain words, it means you have to be poor to get benefits. If you are rich, you get marginalized.
Ultimate aim is to make everyone poor.
But seriously, you either pay more tax and get the same benefit or you pay the same tax and get less benefit. It sucks to be in that income range when you pay more and get zero benefits.
So they pay tax only to get a voting right as a citizen. And for all you know, they don't even get a chance to vote.
I symapthize with the couple
even if they get to vote its still the same.....so many poor folks out there versus one or few votes from the rich....now the numbers are counting. -
Income CeilingOriginally posted by shinta:i mean income cap
http://www.hdb.gov.sg
Buying a 4-room or bigger flat
Your gross monthly household income must not be more than $8,000.
If you are buying a flat with your extended family, your gross monthly household income must not be more than $12,000. Please click here for the illustration on the computation of the higher income ceiling.
Buying a 3-room
Your gross monthly household income must not be more than $3,000.
Buying a 2-room
Your gross monthly household income must not be more than $2,000 -
stick to the topic...no flaminOriginally posted by T.Ryousuke:8k is 2 person pay combine, U know got think call carry balls and B.S? -
no prob one guy resigns go jobless and take care of kids..and get a lower paid job after confinement...pulls out of the 8k income ceiling....once settled into new flat then get another job of higher income again..prob solved no need to publish article over at straits times.Originally posted by anonymouscoward:Income Ceiling
http://www.hdb.gov.sg
Buying a 4-room or bigger flat
Your gross monthly household income must not be more than $8,000.
If you are buying a flat with your extended family, your gross monthly household income must not be more than $12,000. Please click here for the illustration on the computation of the higher income ceiling.
Buying a 3-room
Your gross monthly household income must not be more than $3,000.
Buying a 2-room
Your gross monthly household income must not be more than $2,000 -
Sorry, not trying to flame but be realistic. I have colleague who have 500k in CPF but din own a car and even a flat, he rented one. I have a friend who B.S alot and got high pay but he is a bankrupt. What you think?Originally posted by pipipopo:stick to the topic...no flamin -
eh which section did u get this info? cos i didn see this when i was surfin a while back...Originally posted by anonymouscoward:Income Ceiling
http://www.hdb.gov.sg
Buying a 4-room or bigger flat
Your gross monthly household income must not be more than $8,000.
If you are buying a flat with your extended family, your gross monthly household income must not be more than $12,000. Please click here for the illustration on the computation of the higher income ceiling.
Buying a 3-room
Your gross monthly household income must not be more than $3,000.
Buying a 2-room
Your gross monthly household income must not be more than $2,000 -
i think this post is tsill not sticking to the topic at handOriginally posted by T.Ryousuke:Sorry, not trying to flame but be realistic. I have colleague who have 500k in CPF but din own a car and even a flat, he rented one. I have a friend who B.S alot and got high pay but he is a bankrupt. What you think? -
it don't matter..an easy solution has always been offered to the '8k' duet to breech this ceiling limit...8 or 12 k makes no deference to any who can handle a crissis like the flowing river.Originally posted by shinta:eh which section did u get this info? cos i didn see this when i was surfin a while back... -
more like, one guy resigns, pay drops below 8k and kenna jam by 30 month time bar.Originally posted by pipipopo:no prob one guy resigns go jobless and take care of kids..and get a lower paid job after confinement...pulls out of the 8k income ceiling....once settled into new flat then get another job of higher income again..prob solved no need to publish article over at straits times.
"A private property owner cannot buy a flat direct from HDB. If you dispose of your private property, you have to wait 30 months before you are eligible to buy a flat direct from HDB"
He can probably write to MP for exemption though -
wah lao, the URL very long. Go to HDB website and click on policiesOriginally posted by shinta:eh which section did u get this info? cos i didn see this when i was surfin a while back... -
Hee.. I was tempted to say either your subordinates are very lucky or you children are very unlucky.Originally posted by pipipopo:stick to the topic...no flamin -
is this in the 8k duet's case?...there's a period where the property cannot be sold or resold. this also apply for smaller hdb flat buyers or owners. second hand flats are affordable. if the income falls below 8k...a second hand 4-room in the resale market not in central area will be very affordable for the couple.Originally posted by anonymouscoward:more like, one guy resigns, pay drops below 8k and kenna jam by 30 month time bar.
"A private property owner cannot buy a flat direct from HDB. If you dispose of your private property, you have to wait 30 months before you are eligible to buy a flat direct from HDB"
He can probably write to MP for exemption though -
this is also not stickin to the topicOriginally posted by anonymouscoward:Hee.. I was tempted to say either your subordinates are very lucky or you children are very unlucky. -
again this not not sticking to the topic...can't u even use the one click and paste function?Originally posted by anonymouscoward:wah lao, the URL very long. Go to HDB website and click on policies -
Is this exactly what the author said? Only choice they have is private or resale. And since they rejected the idea of resale earlier, why would they want to buy one now?Originally posted by pipipopo:is this in the 8k duet's case...there's a period where the property cannot be sold or resold. this also apply for smaller hdb flat buyers or owners. second hand flats are affordable. if the income falls below 8k...a second hand 4-room in the resale market not in central area will be very affordable for the couple.
How many couple will want to drastically change their life for the sake of having kids? Will you move from a private to a second-hand, 99 year 350-400k HDB in some ulu place? Just so you have a couple of kids?
Beggers can't be chosers but given a choice, I doubt if anyone would make this kind of scarifice.
If that's the case, I think the couple will shelf the idea of having kids. It's a lose-lose situation.
Why not the government allow them to buy a HDB (without subsidises) and then it will be a win-win situation for all? -
yeh is this what the author said exactly...either way there's a way to wriggle out of the situation. if they rejected the idea of getting the resale units in open market so no one can help them. if they can't afford to hav kids, don't. they cannot blame the government for not implacing the right policies. no one is born with the silver spoon and i will not blame someone who is born with it to feel like he/ she is a beggar. to oopenly publish their false plight hoping the government will change the policy is no act the different from being a beggar begging for goodies in the streets. the government can allow that i am sure...and its a case-to-case bassis. submit all supporting documents to prove your elligibility and difficulties. rules can't be changed just to satisfy one family's cause and jeopardize the rest.Originally posted by anonymouscoward:Is this exactly what the author said? Only choice they have is private or resale. And since they rejected the idea of resale earlier, why would they want to buy one now?
How many couple will want to drastically change their life for the sake of having kids? Will you move from a private to a second-hand, 99 year 350-400k HDB in some ulu place? Just so you have a couple of kids?
Beggers can't be chosers but given a choice, I doubt if anyone would make this kind of scarifice.
If that's the case, I think the couple will shelf the idea of having kids. It's a lose-lose situation.
Why not the government allow them to buy a HDB (without subsidises) and then it will be a win-win situation for all? -
There are cases of stuck-up govt people giving the lame response: "yes, I hear your problem, yes you've shown me the financial issues faced and they are genuine...but too bad. Rules are rules and i can't change them. "Originally posted by pipipopo:if he chose not to disclose and with supporting accounting documentation of his debts and monthly expenses no one can help him. figures tell the truth. if their cause is just they can bring the accounts over to the authorithy for review...case to case help may be rendered to the family affected. otherwise its just words and eords can be manipulated.
At this point, there is nothing to lose but write to the papers to shed light on one's plight, exactly what he has done.
We can continue to assume this and that but ultimately, the question remains: Is there more the govt can do to help? Or is their help reserved exclusively for the lower-income group? And incidently, what is the cut-off limit to be classified as a 'needy'?
Given the situation of being sandwiched between the VERY RICH and the VERY POOR, paying taxes and getting a big fat zero in return, i fully understand his frustration. -
i am glad it shall be his frustration and not his grief. many solutions are offered here and they are feasibble. if one insist on holding on to the silver spoon so that he can brag about it over coffee shop talks then no one can help him. the solution to this matter that simply involves basic addition and subtraction is very simple straight forward. sad to say if not we can always hail another family to the lower income group...fellow brethens will welcome this family with open arms.Originally posted by BillyBong:There are cases of stuck-up govt people giving the lame response: "yes, I hear your problem, yes you've shown me the financial issues faced and they are genuine...but too bad. Rules are rules and i can't change them. "
At this point, there is nothing to lose but write to the papers to shed light on one's plight, exactly what he has done.
We can continue to assume this and that but ultimately, the question remains: Is there more the govt can do to help? Or is their help reserved exclusively for the lower-income group? And incidently, what is the cut-off limit to be classified as a 'needy'?
Given the situation of being sandwiched between the VERY RICH and the VERY POOR, paying taxes and getting a big fat zero in return, i fully understand his frustration. -
nay its not easy doing it, hey it sounds easy sayign it. but to make the decision, accept he consequences and the price, its not as easy as that.Originally posted by pipipopo:i am glad it shall be his frustration and not his grief. many solutions are offered here and they are feasibble. if one insist on holding on to the silver spoon so that he can brag about it over coffee shop talks then no one can help him. the solution to this matter that simply involves basic addition and subtraction is very simple straight forward. sad to say if not we can always hail another family to the lower income group...fellow brethens will welcome this family with open arms.
not to say the solutions were wrong though(no coments on right or wrong). -
its all in the mind and i believe psychic barrier is in play here. after all not many poor will withstand the lure of spending all the money when they strike a 4-d and not many rich will sell their property without a profit but just for a break even.Originally posted by hisoka:nay its not easy doing it, hey it sounds easy sayign it. but to make the decision, accept he consequences and the price, its not as easy as that.
not to say the solutions were wrong though(no coments on right or wrong).
for me to advice , to survive you have to be strong but psychically and mentally. there are times when u hav to accept the fact that things hav changed and nothing stays the same forever. looking at the situation i somehow felt that moving into a family life and havin kids and babies should affect a family more than the size of a house. if one cannot adapt to the size of a house, how can he/ she adapt to the commitment of raising a child?