Suzhou industrial park is a success
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ST is the gahmen's mouthpiece, everyone knows tt....Originally posted by Rock^Star:well, i'm not sure abt the false info part but what i'm saying is that ST is selectively dishing out info on Shin
after LHL's boo boo on china abt taiwan some years back, look at how one bloody sided ST's reporting of the political unease in Taiwan is. It's so one sided i dun bother reading anymore. responsible journalism gives a perspective tt readers can pick up on 2 sides of the story and form an impression, rightfully or not. but ST is acting as if it has an agenda on Taiwan, and tt's polishng the chinese's shoes with the sg gahmen's asking. just no credibility. guess what, sui bian is still around today...
suzhou is LKY's attempt to get into China's good book. for all the success ST trumpeted, the fact remains that SG got way laid by the chinese business community. -
ICBC Completes Record IPO as Demand Tops $500 Billion (Update)
Oct. 20 (Bloomberg) -- Industrial & Commercial Bank of China Ltd. raised $19.1 billion in the world's biggest initial public offering after attracting orders equivalent to twice Citigroup Inc.'s market value.
China's biggest bank sold 48.39 billion shares for HK$3.07 (39.4 cents) and the equivalent in Chinese yuan, said two bankers involved in the IPO, who declined to be identified before the official Oct. 23 announcement. The company may sell $2.9 billion more stock once trading begins on Oct. 27.
ICBC raised the maximum amount sought as investors placed orders for more than $500 billion of stock, betting the bank's 18,000 branches and a customer base bigger than Russia's population will be a proxy for China's economic expansion. The IPO represents 14.8 percent of the company's shares and will value the Beijing-based bank at $129 billion.
``The demand's a surprise, given the bank's main attraction is its size,'' said Ambrose Chang, who oversees $1.6 billion of assets as chief investment officer of Daiwa SB Investments HK Ltd. and who ordered ICBC shares. ``It's a benchmark China bank stock and the sale came at the right time.''
The Hang Seng China Enterprises Index of Chinese shares traded in Hong Kong is at the highest level in more than 16 years, with the benchmark Hang Seng Index trading less than 2 percent from an all-time high.
Market Timing
Bank of China Ltd., the nation's second-biggest, began selling stock in an $11.2 billion IPO in May, when the China Enterprises Index fell 2.5 percent, the first monthly decline in 11. Shares of Bank of China have risen 15 percent since then.
ICBC's market value will rise to $131 billion should the over-allotment option be exercised, and may top Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group's $135 billion if the stock gains once trading begins. That would make ICBC the world's fifth biggest bank.
New York-based Citigroup has a market value of $248 billion.
``ICBC may have an upside of 10 percent on debut so it will be trade at the industry average,'' said Liu Yang, who helps manage $3 billion at Atlantis Asset Management Ltd. in Hong Kong. ``I'll probably sell if it goes above that. Loan growth is boring and management is ordinary. It's not even the best in China, and there's no point comparing it with global lenders.''
China, the world's fastest growing major economy, has been trying to clean up banks saddled with bad debts that peaked at more than 30 percent of all loans in 2000, a legacy of unchecked lending to state companies and lax internal controls.
Book Value
ICBC said will it use the proceeds from the sale to fund expansion. The Ministry of Finance and Central Huijin Investment Co., a state-owned holding company, each own 36.2 percent of the bank after the sale. A Goldman Sachs Group Inc. investor group own a combined 7.4 percent, the bank's share sale document shows.
The sale price represents 2.23 times ICBC's estimated book value for this year. That compares with 2.3 times for Bank of China. China Construction Bank Corp., the nation's fourth biggest, is at 2.6 times, data compiled by Bloomberg show.
``For the past 20 years, the whole economic reform has been quite successful but the banking reform has just started,'' said Shifeng Ke, director of Martin Currie Group's MC China Ltd., the biggest overseas investor in China's domestic stock markets.
State Bailouts
China's three biggest government-owned banks received $60 billion in bailouts since 2003 as part of the industry cleanup. The government also bought hundreds of billions of dollars of bad loans from firms to strengthen their balance sheets.
The country's banking regulator is strengthening oversight of banks, which are trying to improve risk-management systems and root out fraud following scandals and embezzlement cases.
The regulator said it uncovered 480 fraud cases at domestic banks in the first half of this year, about 16 percent fewer than a year earlier.
``I won't fall off my chair if one day one of the banks says $10 billion has gone missing,'' said Hugh Young, who helps manage $25 billion at Aberdeen Asset Management in Singapore and didn't apply for the stock. ``We are conservative investors. We just don't have sufficient comfort level.''
ICBC attracted investors with the biggest branch network in China and 153 million customers, more than the 143 million people who live in Russia. A four-year investment boom has powered annual economic expansion of 10 percent, double the global average, pushing China past the U.K. to become the world's fourth-largest economy.
Fees, Commission
Fee and commission income at ICBC was the highest among the nation's four biggest banks last year, rising to 10.5 billion yuan from 5.6 billion in 2003, according to IPO prospectus.
The bank last year received a $15 billion rescue package that helped it reduce bad loans, and this year sold a stake for $3.78 billion to a group including Goldman's GS Capital Partners V fund, Allianz AG and American Express Co.
Overseas institutional investors ordered about $345 billion of ICBC shares, while Hong Kong individuals ordered $54 billion, the bankers said. Demand from individuals in China exceeded 650 billion yuan, and institutional investors in the country placed 130 billion yuan of orders, the bankers said.
Shares in the Chinese portion of the IPO were priced at 3.11 yuan, the bankers said. The sale, the first simultaneous offering in Hong Kong and Shanghai, eclipses the $13.7 billion that Bank of China raised in offerings in May and July this year.
Merrill Lynch & Co., China International Capital Corp., Credit Suisse Group, Deutsche Bank AG and ICEA Securities handled the global share offering. Underwriters for the domestic sale are China International Capital Corp., Citic Securities Co., Guotai Junan Securities Co. and Shenyin & Wanguo Securities Co.
The following is a table of the 10 largest global IPOs, according to data compiled by Dealogic and Bloomberg. The list excludes rights offerings, domestic sales and tenders. The size is taken from exchange rates at the time of the sale and includes over-allotment options that have been exercised.
ICBC China ($bln)19.1
NTT DoCoMo Japan ($bln)18.4
Enel SpA Italy ($bln)17.0
Deutsche Telekom AG Germany ($bln)13.0
Bank of China Ltd. China ($bln)11.2
OAO Rosneft Russia ($bln)10.6
AT&T Wireless U.S. ($bln)10.6
Telstra Corp. Australia ($bln)10.0
China Construction Bank Corp. China ($bln)9.2
Kraft Foods Inc. U.S. ($bln)8.7 -
Well said.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:The park's total output last year was 58 billion yuan (S$11.6 billion) - about 50 times what it achieved when it first started 12 years ago.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Here comes the million dollar question.
The turnaround in the park's fortunes began when the two countries swopped stakes in 2001, with the Chinese side becoming the majority shareholder. That year, the park posted its first profit of US$7.6 million (S$12 million) and has not looked back since.
(Straits Times 16 Oct)
How many percentage of the US$7.6 million profit went into our pocket? -
Originally posted by Hogzilla:
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Original post by oxford mushroom:
The park's total output last year was 58 billion yuan (S$11.6 billion) - about 50 times what it achieved when it first started 12 years ago.
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Well said.
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Original posted by oxford mushroom:
The turnaround in the park's fortunes began when the two countries swopped stakes in 2001, with the Chinese side becoming the majority shareholder. That year, the park posted its first profit of US$7.6 million (S$12 million) and has not looked back since.
(Straits Times 16 Oct)
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Here comes the million dollar question.
How many percentage of the US$7.6 million profit went into our pocket?
Is it not amazing how some over qualified persons can miss the obvious fact and become self-congratulotary despite having been conned.
It will seem that the louder the trumpet is blown, the sound will drown out the obvious facts that is already spelled so clearly in the public statements made. -
I tink the degree 0f success can't be measured la... coz some local companies hv been clinching some big contacts there and I tink suzhou project is one of our stepping stones to go into china... I suspect it may contribute to our GNP a lot in the years to come
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From the list of referenced site that is compiled by Singapore Windows, and 'Suzhou Saga', it is obvious that over a period of five years - (prior to the larger 65 percent share was exchanged with the Suzhou authorities) - the Singapore Government was reported to be losing US$25 Million A YEAR for consequitive FIVE YEARS since work on the Park began; and it is estimated that the total loss will hit US$90 million.Originally posted by sunny6110:I tink the degree 0f success can't be measured la... coz some local companies hv been clinching some big contacts there and I tink suzhou project is one of our stepping stones to go into china... I suspect it may contribute to our GNP a lot in the years to come
At the current rate of the profit generated, and with a smaller stake of 35 percent currently held, how long will it take for Singapore to recover all its losses if the profit sharing is based on the percentage of shareholding ? -
can't only focus on the government's losses... be reminded how local companies benefited and how it in turn affect our economy... Real difficult to measure actually. Overall I tink it may not be the best move, but certainly not the wrong move
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Originally posted by sunny6110:
With or without the Government's help, Singapore's local companies have made their own headway into Mainland China, through their own personal contacts and connections - 'guanxi'.
can't only focus on the government's losses... be reminded how local companies benefited and how it in turn affect our economy... Real difficult to measure actually. Overall I tink it may not be the best move, but certainly not the wrong move
Even before the Singapore Government committed to a major failure in the Suzhou Industrial Park, a group of Singaporeans had already started their own industrial park in the same province.
Although on a much smaller scale, it was a success from the start and at far less capital outlay.
Without understanding the 'regional power plays', the Singapore Government had thought that merely with the blessings of the Central Government, it will open all doors and that the Provincial Governments had to bend to the will of the Central Government.
Will further successes from Singapore Businesses be of any benefit to Singapore, when on the one side - the Private Enterprises are making profits, and on the other side - the Government is squandering away the hard earned reserves on useless investments ?
Which Singapore businesses are benefitting from its involvement in the Suzhou Industrial Park ?
Is it not a fact that the Suzhou Industrial Park with all the infrastructure being identical to Singapore, has actually lured foreign investors from Singapore, and establishing manufacturing facilities in the Suzhou Industrial Park - which is directly competing with Singapore Industries ?
Should we fear the potential loss if ever the Alternative Parties be elected to be the NEW Singapore Government, or should we fear more from the excesses of self-eluding POWER OF ONE ? -
Carry on and believe what the gov is telling you.Originally posted by sunny6110:can't only focus on the government's losses... be reminded how local companies benefited and how it in turn affect our economy... Real difficult to measure actually. Overall I tink it may not be the best move, but certainly not the wrong move
And you will live happily forever -
I'm still waiting for the answer to my million dollar question.
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wait long long.. becuz i dun think they'll ever post how much profit they have made now unless its a hugh substential sum that has already bypassed the investment and the loss they had made in the first place...we might get some picture maybe in 10yrs probably..Originally posted by Hogzilla:I'm still waiting for the answer to my million dollar question.
stick around till then and +1 this thread every once a month so it stays alive ok?
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Did you invest in Suzhou or in companies that operate in SIP? Oops...or were you busy rantng here when others were busy making money in Suzhou?Originally posted by Hogzilla:Here comes the million dollar question.
How many percentage of the US$7.6 million profit went into our pocket?
The government gets a share of the profits of Singapore-registered companies through taxation and that is distributed to all Singaporeans through various government policies like the Progress package.
Many who followed the government and started businesses in China now benefit from their investments. They had to work hard amidst the anxieties surrounding the difficult early days of the SIP. Why should you deserve even a cent in your pocket if all you have done throughout is sit in your armchair taking pot shots at the government? -
And if you don't mind, inspect the question properly. I assume you have misunderstand the word "our" as "my" right? Then I must ask, who is "our" and what is "my"?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Did you invest in Suzhou or in companies that operate in SIP? Oops...or were you busy rantng here when others were busy making money in Suzhou?
The government gets a share of the profits of Singapore-registered companies through taxation and that is distributed to all Singaporeans through various government policies like the Progress package.
Many who followed the government and started businesses in China now benefit from their investments. They had to work hard amidst the anxieties surrounding the difficult early days of the SIP. Why should you deserve even a cent in your pocket if all you have done throughout is sit in your armchair taking pot shots at the government?
Dictionary indicates that "our" is "belonging to or connected with us". The meaning from the same dictionary for "my" means "used by the person who is speaking to show that something belongs to or is connected with himself or herself"
And of course, the word "our" in that sentence's context means Singapore government / Singapore citizens. I'm sorry for any misunderstanding caused by this fact. (A lesson taken from MM Lee and the various Japanese Prime Minister. See, I'm learning)
But sadly, my question had not been answered. Words are flexible while figures are cold and hard. I'll accept any numbers ranging from negative infinite to positive infinite (Will be labelled as "x" in teh next sentence). But remember to minus x with the money our government put in to build the industry park.
Besides, how do you expect a child below 10 to invest in SIP? How much money do you expect a 10> child to have to invest in SIP? -
Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Which Singapore based Companies are located in the Suzhou Industrial Park, and have offered IPO for Singaporeans to invest ?
Did you invest in Suzhou or in companies that operate in SIP? Oops...or were you busy rantng here when others were busy making money in Suzhou?
Even if you want to rant in support of the Singapore Government, you could at least be a little bit more honest with facts ?
Fat hope if the government can lay their hands on profits that are gained from investments in Suzhou.
The government gets a share of the profits of Singapore-registered companies through taxation and that is distributed to all Singaporeans through various government policies like the Progress package.
Have you not heard of Double Tax Agreement that prevent Companies from being hit with a double whammy ?
Singapore Companies operating profitably in Suzhou will be paying tax in China, will the Singapore Government be able to gain any tax from such overseas investments by Singapore businesses ?
The Progress Package is paid out from all the accumulated taxes extracted from every essential expenditures, consumption and economic activities of all Singaporeans in Singapore.
Twisting facts to fit your own preferred vision of events will only result in the brain becoming blurr.
Did Singaporeans follow the Singapore Government in investing in China, or were they already in China ahead of the Singapore Government ?
Many who followed the government and started businesses in China now benefit from their investments. They had to work hard amidst the anxieties surrounding the difficult early days of the SIP. Why should you deserve even a cent in your pocket if all you have done throughout is sit in your armchair taking pot shots at the government?
If Singaporean businesses had followed the Singapore Government in the way business is conducted by THEM, how many similar Suzhou disasters are waiting to happen ?
Fortunately, Singapore businessmen have shown themselves to have sharper acumen to prevent their investments becoming disasters, compared to the self-acclaimed Elites working in the Singapore Government. -
The elusive China Dream is fast becoming reality for many US companies.
US corporate profits in China passed $2 billion the first six months of 2006, up more than 50% from the first half of last year, according to the US Bureau of Economic Analysis. US companies are on pace to earn more in China this year than they earned there during the entire 1990s, notes Joseph Quinlan, chief market strategist at Bank of America.
The government numbers are consistent with private surveys: 81% of companies belonging to the US-China Business Council, a lobbying group, reported that their China operations were profitable. More than half said profitability in China matched or beat their worldwide profit margins, according to a recent council survey.
In 1999, the US State Department found that just 57% of US firms were profitable in China.
Equipment manufacturer Caterpillar cited strong growth in China, among other things, last week when it reported a 21% increase in third-quarter earnings. Like most US companies, Caterpillar doesn't report China revenue and earnings separately and won't talk about them in any detail.
But a telling sign of China's importance to the company: Over the past 2.5 years, Caterpillar has doubled its China workforce to 5,000, says Jim Dugan, the company's spokesman in Beijing.
"Just about any place you go in China, there are road and railroad and construction and energy projects," Dugan says. "Those are all fields where we play ball."
'Business is good'
Starbucks, which already operates more than 190 stores in 19 Chinese cities, doesn't break out its financial performance in China. But spokesman Eden Woon says, "Business is good. We are accelerating our growth."
Not all successful US companies in China are household names: Greif, a Delaware, Ohio-based maker of industrial packaging, says profits are strong and growing in China, a market it entered five years ago when it acquired a competitor already operating there.
For centuries, Western businesses have cast covetous eyes at China, a dream market with the world's biggest population, now 1.3 billion. And it's virtually untouched by modern marketing. But their visions of profits, dating back to Marco Polo and before, usually came to nothing. They've been dashed by war, political turmoil, corruption, bureaucracy and grinding rural poverty.
"Time and again," journalist Joe Studwell wrote in his 2002 book, The China Dream, "China has failed to fulfill the promise that foreigners ascribe to her."
But now, China's economy, which began opening to foreign investment and trade in the late 1970s, is booming, expanding at about 10% a year.
Living standards have improved in urban centers such as Beijing, Shanghai and Shenzhen, creating a middle class -- and opportunities for US firms from Starbucks to General Motors.
From 1999 to 2004, according to statistics compiled by the American Chambers of Commerce in Beijing and Shanghai, the number of broadband lines rose to 31.7 million from 2.2 million.
Automobile ownership rose to 22 per thousand Chinese from one per thousand. Cellphones surged to 111 per thousand Chinese from three per thousand.
Learning how to do business
China's entry into the World Trade Organization in 2001 made it easier for foreign companies to operate there. The WTO deal required China in 2004 to start letting foreign firms distribute their goods without first entering into alliances with state-owned Chinese partners, which often siphoned profits and stole technology. These days, more US companies are going it alone profitably without Chinese partners. The percentage of American Chamber members operating as joint ventures in China slid from 78% in 1999 to 27% in 2005.
US companies have learned how to do business in China. "Companies have gained experience from the early years," says Robert Poole, vice president of China operations at the US-China Business Council. "They trained people, established management systems, built reputations for their products."
US firms still face problems in China. Good help is hard to find. Theft of intellectual property is rampant. Competition is fierce as young Chinese companies try to take on more-established Western firms. Greif, for instance, reckons it has 400 competitors in China. But for now the profits are rolling in, and US companies are confident about the future: 97% told the US-China Business Council that they were optimistic about their prospects in China over the next five years.
"When the economy is growing this fast, profits will increase," says Studwell, founder of the China Economic Quarterly. "At the same time, foreign firms have learned hugely from their mistakes of the 1990s." -
THE United States has confirmed its participation in the Shanghai World Expo, event organizers said yesterday.
The early confirmation is a coup for the 2010 event. The US revoked its membership of the World Expo's international governing body in 2001, saying the event, which was first held in 1851, had no place in today's technologically advanced age.
It did not attend the Hanover World Expo in 2000 and was last to register for World Expo 2005 in Aichi, Japan.
The US Deputy Assistant Secretary Alina Romanowski, who told Zheng Zeguang, China's US ambassador, of the decision to take part, said the World Expo 2010 would serve as a new platform to strengthen communication and cooperation between the US and China.
"The US government attaches great importance to the World Expo 2010 and has decided officially to take part in the event," said Romanowski during her meeting with Zheng, according to a press release issued by the Bureau of Shanghai World Expo Coordination.
Franklin Lavin, the US undersecretary of commerce for international trade, said during his visit to China in July: "Many Americans are not familiar with China, but they have an urgent desire to know the country, which has so long a history and so splendid a culture. The World Expo 2010 will help to expand the influence of China in the US."
Zhou Hanmin, deputy director of the Bureau of Shanghai World Expo Coordination, said yesterday the US had made a detailed working plan for the Expo.
"The participation of the US shows that the World Expos are getting more attractive at the beginning of the 21st century," said Zhou. "It can also reinforce a constructive and cooperative Sino-US relationship."
He said the Expo would act as a platform to improve political, economic, cultural, technological, educational and environmental coordination between the two nations.
So far, 87 countries and international organizations have accepted the invitations, sent by Premier Wen Jiabao in March, to attend the event.
"It is rare in the World Expo's history to have so many nations and international organizations confirm their participation in such a short time," said Zhou. "The Bureau of International Exhibitions has awarded us a high evaluation."
The World Expo 2010 hopes to attract 200 countries and international organizations and more than 70 million visitors. -
As much as the Americans and the entire world has seen China to be a market of ONE BILLION CONSUMERS, and a place for low cost production, what is the benefit for Singaporeans for the Singapore Government to invests millions of our Singapore Reserves to built a Suzhou Indusrial Park that feature the same infrastructure of a typical Singapore Industrial Estate ?
If the intention was to get into the good books of the authorities and build up 'guanxi', perhaps the Singapore Government has scored, as part of the millions spent probably fell into the deep pocket of a Mao jacket.
In the course of the construction of Suzhou Industrial Park, the millions poured into the project has benefitted local Chinese contractors and became a boom for local Suzhou labor.
Unlike the manufacturing investments of other countries, there is little output that will generate profit by selling to the mass consumers, and the only source of income is at the end of the project when land is rented, and fees charged for utilities consumed.
Still what benefit is there for the average Singapore worker in Singapore ?
In creating a Suzhou Industrial Park that replicate a typical Singapore Industrial Estate with its superior infrastructure, will it not draw away potential investors from Singapore, reducing by as much the job opportunities that will otherwise be open to Singaporeans ?
Even with Singapore businesses taking the cue to invest, and find the benefit of paying higher for the infrastructure at Suzhou Industrial Park, it cannot possibly employ any significant number of Singaporeans when there are lower costs Mainland Chinese available in Suzhou.
What is the benefit to the average Singaporean worker ?
Is there any significance to any Singaporean, if the Suzhou Industrial Park is a success after almost a decade of work and misteps ?
Any trumpet blowing at this time, is merely self-serving in justifying in a twisted manner, the millions wasted in a useless project that brings no benefit to Singaporeans. -
Originally posted by Atobe:
You still don't get what our dearest oxford mushroom is trying to say.
As much as the Americans and the entire world has seen China to be a market of ONE BILLION CONSUMERS, and a place for low cost production, what is the benefit for Singaporeans for the Singapore Government to [b]invests millions of our Singapore Reserves to built a Suzhou Indusrial Park that feature the same infrastructure of a typical Singapore Industrial Estate ?
If the intention was to get into the good books of the authorities and build up 'guanxi', perhaps the Singapore Government has scored, as part of the millions spent probably fell into the deep pocket of a Mao jacket.
In the course of the construction of Suzhou Industrial Park, the millions poured into the project has benefitted local Chinese contractors and became a boom for local Suzhou labor.
Unlike the manufacturing investments of other countries, there is little output that will generate profit by selling to the mass consumers, and the only source of income is at the end of the project when land is rented, and fees charged for utilities consumed.
Still what benefit is there for the average Singapore worker in Singapore ?
In creating a Suzhou Industrial Park that replicate a typical Singapore Industrial Estate with its superior infrastructure, will it not draw away potential investors from Singapore, reducing by as much the job opportunities that will otherwise be open to Singaporeans ?
Even with Singapore businesses taking the cue to invest, and find the benefit of paying higher for the infrastructure at Suzhou Industrial Park, it cannot possibly employ any significant number of Singaporeans when there are lower costs Mainland Chinese available in Suzhou.
What is the benefit to the average Singaporean worker ?
Is there any significance to any Singaporean, if the Suzhou Industrial Park is a success after almost a decade of work and misteps ?
Any trumpet blowing at this time, is merely self-serving in justifying in a twisted manner, the millions wasted in a useless project that brings no benefit to Singaporeans.
[/b]
His meaning is: when the government go invest, you should go as well. Then you can kao bei. If you don't have the "foresight" of our government, please don't talk and diam!!. -
Originally posted by Hogzilla:
Did you read my post in reply to OM, or that of the other participants ?
You still don't get what our dearest oxford mushroom is trying to say.
His meaning is: when the government go invest, you should go as well. Then you can kao bei. If you don't have the "foresight" of our government, please don't talk and diam!!.
Some participants had asked how many Singaporeans from this population of 4.5 MILLION can invest in Suzhou Industrial Park by setting up manufacturing facilities ?
My question to OM was : how many Singapore owned manufacturing facilities have offered any IPO to Singaporeans to participate in the investment at SIP ?
My post is clear and simple, the Government investment in SIP is a useless waste of Singapore Reserves that BRING NO BENEFIT to Singaporeans in any manner.
OM claim that tax is collected from the profits of Singaporean owned manufacturing facilities in SIP; and I had replied that this can only happen in OM's pipedream as there is a 'Double Taxation Agreement' that help the investors from being faced with a Double Tax imposed on profits from their overseas investments.
Is it the foresight of our Singapore Government to waste MILLIONS OF OUR SINGAPORE RESERVES that bring no benefit to Singaporeans, and now with a smaller shareholding in the SIP - how quickly over the next few years, can the entitled share of the SIP Profit allow for the full recovery of all the Singapore Reserves poured into this SIP Project ?
Should we trust your personality to understand a mixed up Oxford Mushroom - " Hog-zilla " ? -
Like some forumers say here,where is the figures of the profit?How much money we have dumped into the project?How much losses we have made compare to profit?Why our government refuse to disclose the figure?
Not only Suzhou industry park is making losses,i believe other government foreign investment also suffering losses.The most recent one is our investment in Thailand by the Temasek Holdings,which the Thailand government overthrown by the militia.The newspaper stated it might cause losses in the investment. -
Originally posted by Atobe:
Temasek Holdings is the investment arm of the givernment. When Temasek Holdings earns revenue from its investments in Suzhou, those earnings go into the reserves of the nation, which can be drawn upon to balance the budget when the economy faces a downturn again. In years of budget surplus, the government distributed millions to Singaporeans by way of Progress Package and other schems.
Did you read my post in reply to OM, or that of the other participants ?
Some participants had asked how many Singaporeans from this population of 4.5 MILLION can invest in Suzhou Industrial Park by [b]setting up manufacturing facilities ?
My question to OM was : how many Singapore owned manufacturing facilities have offered any IPO to Singaporeans to participate in the investment at SIP ?
My post is clear and simple, the Government investment in SIP is a useless waste of Singapore Reserves that BRING NO BENEFIT to Singaporeans in any manner.
OM claim that tax is collected from the profits of Singaporean owned manufacturing facilities in SIP; and I had replied that this can only happen in OM's pipedream as there is a 'Double Taxation Agreement' that help the investors from being faced with a Double Tax imposed on profits from their overseas investments.
Is it the foresight of our Singapore Government to waste MILLIONS OF OUR SINGAPORE RESERVES that bring no benefit to Singaporeans, and now with a smaller shareholding in the SIP - how quickly over the next few years, can the entitled share of the SIP Profit allow for the full recovery of all the Singapore Reserves poured into this SIP Project ?
Should we trust your personality to understand a mixed up Oxford Mushroom - " Hog-zilla " ?
[/b]
Local companies like JTC, Keppel Land and Sembawang Industrial are Singapore-based companies, their head office in Singapore pays corporate tax to the government, their management and employees pay income tax to the governent. When these companies do well in their overseas investments like Suzhou, their Singaporean employees benefit, their stockholders benefit and Singapore benefits.
Those who choose not to go to Suzhou like JTC and Temasek Holdings cannot now blame the government because they do not benefit from this initiatiive...sound like sour grapes to me. -
Haiz~~~Originally posted by 4getmenot:wait long long.. becuz i dun think they'll ever post how much profit they have made now unless its a hugh substential sum that has already bypassed the investment and the loss they had made in the first place...we might get some picture maybe in 10yrs probably..
stick around till then and +1 this thread every once a month so it stays alive ok?
I hate to belive your words, but from the looks of our OM's reply, it seems to be the truth..... -
Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
For crying out loud, are you grabbing straws from thin air to prove your false position ?
Temasek Holdings is the investment arm of the givernment. When Temasek Holdings earns revenue from its investments in Suzhou, those earnings go into the reserves of the nation, which can be drawn upon to balance the budget when the economy faces a downturn again. In years of budget surplus, the government distributed millions to Singaporeans by way of Progress Package and other schems.
Which Suzhou investments have Temasek got itself involved with, when the Government Investment Corporation has already sunk millions - if not Billions - from the Singapore Reserves into Suzhou ?
Since when has Temasek ever returned its excess funds to the National Reserves ?
Are you in any position to be privy to such 'classified information' when even the late President Ong Teng Cheong has not been able to get even an iota from his Government ?
If you are in no position to be privy to such information, what is the basis of your statement, if not just another one of your typical humbug effort to impress.
How many more othe GLCs do you intend to link to save your sinking position ?
Local companies like JTC, Keppel Land and Sembawang Industrial are Singapore-based companies, their head office in Singapore pays corporate tax to the government, their management and employees pay income tax to the governent. When these companies do well in their overseas investments like Suzhou, their Singaporean employees benefit, their stockholders benefit and Singapore benefits.
Fat hopes if the profits made by JTC, Keppel Land and Sembawang from their overseas investments will be subject to additional corporate tax by the Singapore Government.
What is new about the local management and employees being subject to income tax, when every other Singaporeans are also subject to the same income tax ?
In addition to the income tax, the monthly wages paid are also subject to all kinds of indirect taxes levied on every essential economic activities that result in an embarrassing revenue surplus windfall for the government.
Are these the result of the profits generated by overseas investments ?
How many of the average Singaporean earning an average monthly wage of between S$500 to $3,000 can actually "go to Suzhou like JTC and Temasek Holdings" ?
Those who choose not to go to Suzhou like JTC and Temasek Holdings cannot now blame the government because they do not benefit from this initiatiive...sound like sour grapes to me.
Are you perched on your ivory tower, or smoking pipe in Dreamland ?
From all your condescending posts belittling the average Singaporean, it certainly reinforce the likes of you to the current controversies of the elitist MP Wee and his petulant daughter.
Are you in any position to lecture and berate the average Singaporeans ? -
I know of a much easier way to make profits of US$7.6m every year.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:That year, the park posted its first profit of US$7.6 million (S$12 million) and has not looked back since.
SACK all of the ministers and gov heads involved or are involving in that Suzhou project. Their yearly salaries cum benefits should well match that amount.
Easy right?
100% COMFIRM profit and no need to argue with the Chinese. -
Singapore and China have started their first round of talks towards a bilateral free trade agreement.
The negotiations started just as Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong arrived in China for a 6-day visit.
His first stop is the southern city of Guangzhou, the provincial capital of Guangdong.
Arriving in the late afternoon, PM Lee was greeted by Guangdong Vice Governor Tong Xing and Guangzhou Vice Mayor Chen Mingde.
Mr Lee's last visit to Guangzhou was 15 years ago in 1991.
This trip offers him a chance to be updated and get a complete picture of China's development.
Mr Lee also met Guangdong's Governor Huang Huahua.
Two-way trade between the province and Singapore makes up one-third of total Singapore-China trade.
Mr Lee said he would like to see this relationship with Guangdong blossom and grow in both directions.
He also invited Mr Huang, who last visited Singapore in 1989, to visit again.
The Prime Minister's six-day visit takes him through the economically vibrant cities of Guangzhou and Chengdu.
After these cities, he heads to Nanning in Guangxi for the China-ASEAN commemorative summit.
There he will meet Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao and other ASEAN leaders.
Mr Lee's visit coincides with the start of the bilateral Free Trade Agreement discussions in Beijing.
Officials from both sides discussed the negotiating mechanism and the scope of the agreement.
Singapore's Trade and Industry Ministry says the agreement will be a comprehensive one, moving beyond goods, services and investments to include cooperation initiatives in various areas.
It added that this bilateral FTA will also contribute to the development of the China-ASEAN free trade area.
Singapore's Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong hopes his visit to Guangdong will expand bilateral cooperation and raise Singaporeans' awareness to opportunities in the southern Chinese province.
Mr Lee met Guangdong Party Secretary Zhang Dejiang on the first leg of his China visit.
Guangzhou's close proximity to Hong Kong has prompted many potential Singaporean investors to look elsewhere in China, due to the misconception that the province is the "territory" of Hong Kong businessmen.
But this looks set to change with the two-day visit of the Singapore Prime Minister.
Meeting the Guangdong Party Secretary, Mr Lee said with the province's rapid growth, business opportunities would multiply, creating more areas in which the two economies could collaborate.
Two-way trade between Singapore and Guangdong currently makes up one-third of total trade between Singapore and China.
As the economic centre of the Pearl River Delta, Guangzhou is one of China's leading commercial and manufacturing regions, but actual investments by Singapore companies in Guangdong accounts for only 2 percent of total Foreign Direct Investment.
This is a sign, perhaps, of the great potential yet to be tapped.
PM Lee took time to meet Singapore businessmen based in Guangdong, and was happy to report that they were bullish about the opportunities in the province.
Lim Chin Loon, Managing Director, Songming Machinery Industry (Shenzhen), said: "This is a rather lively and prosperous place. Actually, if friends from Singapore want to come to China, I will recommend Shenzhen and Guangzhou. Come and look for us!"
Currently, Singapore investments are largely focused on Jiangsu in the Southeast, Sichuan in the Southwest and Liaoning in the Northeast.
Guangzhou is growing at an average rate of 13 per cent annually, and it has a high-tech industrial zone called Science City, which Mr Lee visited.
At Vtron, a home-grown Chinese maker of high resolution digital display systems, Mr Lee tried out their star product.
Visibly impressed by the technology, he invited the unlisted company to consider listing on the Singapore Exchange.
TIES between China and the Association of South-east Asian Nations (Asean) have made much progress largely due to the booming Chinese economy.
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There are now many areas of co-operation between China and Asean, ranging from trade and investments, education and culture to political and security issues.
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"For the past 15 years, we have made a lot of progress because Asean has seen China's development as a positive trend for the whole region and for the whole world," said Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong in an interview with China's media on Monday, ahead of his visit there.
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"We believe that if China and Asean have a good relationship, Singapore will benefit from this. So, we would like to foster this relationship and, where we can, help it to move forward."
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He also gave an update on the Asean-China free trade agreement (FTA), citing that "a lot of progress" has been made: The Goods Chapter under the FTA has been signed and the tariff advantages are being phased in.
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Next up is the chapter on the trade in services and investment, even though this might be "harder to do", he added.
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"Countries are worried because services usually affect a lot more employment and a wider part of the economy than goods," he said. "But the potential — if we liberalise them — will be great and I think the necessity to do that if you want an overall strong economy is compelling."
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The Prime Minister pointed out that Asean's challenge is to develop "maximum advantage" from bilateral ties with China while strengthening its links with other parts of the world, including Japan, Europe and India.
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"We would like all of these links to grow because we believe that it is best for the region to have an open configuration, an open framework of cooperation in which ... many countries can have a stake in the success of Asia."
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On the status of Singapore-China ties, Mr Lee said that the two countries share "a very good relationship" despite their differing vital interests.
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"I think we understand each other well. We each have different vital interests, but I believe our fundamental interests do not conflict with one another and Singapore believes that China's development and progress is a tremendous positive for the region and the world."
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He reiterated Singapore's support for the one-China policy, and also stressed the importance of mutual trust and respect in order for Asean-China ties to develop further in future.
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Mr Lee's remarks came ahead of his working visit to China today until Oct 31, during which he will visit three cities: Nanning, Guangzhou and Chengdu.
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In Nanning, the Prime Minister will attend the Commemorative Summit celebrating the 15th anniversary of Asean-China ties on Oct 30 and 31. Mr Lee will also meet Chinese premier Wen Jiabao and hold talks with new Thai Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont – the first such meeting since the latter assumed the position.
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Prior to Nanning, Mr Lee will visit Guangzhou from Oct 26 to 27 and Chengdu on Oct 27 to 29 to update himself on the developments in these two provincial cities. He is also scheduled to meet Singapore businessmen and the Chinese provincial leaders.
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The Prime Minister last visited Guangzhou, the capital of Guangdong province, in 1991, in his capacity as then-Deputy Prime Minister.
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Investment and trade links between Singapore and the two provinces Guangdong and Sichuan have seen robust growth in the past decade. Singapore is the second-largest trading partner within Asean in Guangdong, as well as the fourth-largest foreign investor in Sichuan province.
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Total trade with Guangdong last year hit US$10 billion ($15.7 billion) — up 20 per cent from 2004. Similarly, investments from Singapore in Sichuan grew from US$57 million in 1995 to US$340 million last year.
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Accompanying Mr Lee to China will be Foreign Affairs Minister George Yeo, National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan, Minister of State for Trade and Industry Lee Yi Shyan and senior Government officials.