Suzhou industrial park is a success
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Dun worry, if any case this thread disappear, I will +1 it.Originally posted by Gedanken:Atobe, if, and I mean IF, there is a response from mushy, I fully expect him to sidestep the point by bleating about flaming. Don't hold your breath waiting for him to address the real issue. -
To folks like Atobe who will never accept the facts as they are, there is no point extending the debate. You cannot win an argument with a chimpanzee....it will always make a louder noise.
"Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself." (Prov 26:4) -
Why you bother with him, personally I find ox muck and lion nosy of below average intelligence, so, don't stoop to their level. Just ignore them, they will go away when they realise nobody wants to talk to them. I won't even waste my precious time explaining logic to them, when logic is deficient in the first place.Originally posted by Atobe:Is it any surprise that over the last 48 hours, since the last reply from mushroom, he has not made any further response when floored.
Is there any possible reply from a mushroom except with further absurdities to your brilliant colorful statement that spell the picture with unambiguous honesty, and with so much gusto that sweep all the useless mushroom aside.
It will not be long when the mushroom will think that there is a larger conspiracy against him and his demi-Gods, -
Mush? Why are you staying in the UK when Singaporean policies are so good and great?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:To folks like Atobe who will never accept the facts as they are, there is no point extending the debate. You cannot win an argument with a chimpanzee....it will always make a louder noise.
"Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself." (Prov 26:4)
The Suzhou industrial park was a huge FAILURE for Singapore and a huge SUCCESS for China . The Chinese made use of Singapore to develop it and then let Singapore do a fire-sale on it when there were heavy losses. We will never get to see how much losses were incurred in the books because you-know-why. So why even bother arguing with the fungus? -
bottomline is either you choose to believe or not to believe... what the govt says..Originally posted by fymk:Mush? Why are you staying in the UK when Singaporean policies are so good and great?
The Suzhou industrial park was a huge FAILURE for Singapore and a huge SUCCESS for China . The Chinese made use of Singapore to develop it and then let Singapore do a fire-sale on it when there were heavy losses. We will never get to see how much losses were incurred in the books because you-know-why. So why even bother arguing with the fungus?
if you choose not to believe.. nothing in this world can make you think otherwise...
figures can be manipulated...
financial reports can be altered....
reports can be fabricated....
so... why not admit the truth... that you are biased? stop wasting time trying to claim otherwise... -
and you lost all credibility for your posting during your last recent statement where you lambasted how the gahmen shud shut down sites like sgforum and go whining to the forum moderators. in fact i'm still pretty amazed that the mods still let you hang around after tje outcry u made against this site, that shows the level of tolerence and neutralility stance the mods have, something which you nor your beloved gahmen can never apprehendOriginally posted by oxford mushroom:To folks like Atobe who will never accept the facts as they are, there is no point extending the debate. You cannot win an argument with a chimpanzee....it will always make a louder noise.
"Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself." (Prov 26:4)
can't take the heat on the internet? then pleae refrain from surfing on one.. -
Well and good, except that the figures and reports came from the side that claims it was a success.Originally posted by tripwire:figures can be manipulated...
financial reports can be altered....
reports can be fabricated....
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Just like the housing development One of the states invested in China.. also in the end the provincial government took over and wham.. we lose money.. they profit from our loss.
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how come HK MTR lose money while SG MRT makes money?
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does it matter whose figure it is?Originally posted by Gedanken:Well and good, except that the figures and reports came from the side that claims it was a success.
the bottomline is still the same... whose figure do you wanna believe?
asymmetrical information.... only god knows the truth. -
I believe profits are made by deduct total production cost from total profit. If this number is positive, then it's a profit; If the number is a negative, it's a loss; If the number is zero, it's a break-even.
I doubt that anyone habours a different view about profits, losses and break-even, right?
So now we only know of the total profits but we get nothing for the total production cost. Since we only know one number, how can we proclaim loudly that SIP made profits and it's a success?
Or the "success" is measured based on something other than monetary values? -
Chimpanzees are well know for its intelligence, and is recognised to be a close cousin of Humans.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:To folks like Atobe who will never accept the facts as they are, there is no point extending the debate. You cannot win an argument with a chimpanzee....it will always make a louder noise.
"Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself." (Prov 26:4)
If you can be floored by a chimpanzee, what does that make you out to be ?
“You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all the time.”
- Abraham Lincoln.
“He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.”
- Sir William Drummond -
Of course the bottom line is still the same. Singapore lumped along with Suzhou and got nothing out of it, and when the Chinese took over it started turning profits.Originally posted by tripwire:does it matter whose figure it is?
the bottomline is still the same... whose figure do you wanna believe?
asymmetrical information.... only god knows the truth.
Do you count that as a success for Singapore? Are you the sort who goes into business with the intention of expending a lot of effort for no gain, and perhaps even a loss?
The fact is that this information was presented by someone who proposed that Suzhou was a success for Singapore, and yet the information states that it was a failure. In this case the source does matter because it was presented by someone trying to prove that it was a Singaporean success, making it more credible than someone who was trying to prove that it was a failure. -
Well, it's been shown that your facts act against the case you're stating - are YOU willing to accept them, or do you choose to be the chimpanzee?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:To folks like Atobe who will never accept the facts as they are, there is no point extending the debate. You cannot win an argument with a chimpanzee....it will always make a louder noise.
"Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself." (Prov 26:4)
That's a nice quote, by the way. Don't be too surprised if people take it aboard and you find no answers to your posts. -
yes... i do consider that as a success....Originally posted by Gedanken:Of course the bottom line is still the same. Singapore lumped along with Suzhou and got nothing out of it, and when the Chinese took over it started turning profits.
Do you count that as a success for Singapore? Are you the sort who goes into business with the intention of expending a lot of effort for no gain, and perhaps even a loss?
The fact is that this information was presented by someone who proposed that Suzhou was a success for Singapore, and yet the information states that it was a failure. In this case the source does matter because it was presented by someone trying to prove that it was a Singaporean success, making it more credible than someone who was trying to prove that it was a failure.
as someone famous once said... as long as the cat does the job.. i dont care if the cat is white or black... because untimately... its ME who gave the cat the job.
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What criteria do you use to consider it a success?
On my part, I consider it a failure on the Singaporeans' part because all of that work resulted in no profit until the Singaporeans handed to majority stakeholding over to China.
You don't go into business to put in a lot of work only for someone else to reap the profits.
If we're using your analogy above, you've taken the cat home, fed it, groomed it and brought it up healthy, but now it's gone to someone else's house to catch mice instead of yours.Originally posted by tripwire:as someone famous once said... as long as the cat does the job.. i dont care if the cat is white or black... because untimately... its ME who gave the cat the job. -
"PATMI from property trading rose 23.8% to $99.4 million for the first nine months of this year,
due largely to a $12.4 million profit from the sale of Dragon LandÂ’s subsidiary in Tianjin,
China, a $9.5 million gain from the sale of the GroupÂ’s stake in Singapore Suzhou Industrial
Holdings, and higher contributions from existing development projects in Singapore, India and
Vietnam."
(www.kepcorp.com/.../upload/PressRelease/Keppel+Land+Limited+3Q+2006+Financial+Highlights.pdf ) -
Are you trying to present money made from sale of stakes as profits?
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you forget.... we are still a shareholder in the project... so we get a share of that profit as well...Originally posted by Gedanken:What criteria do you use to consider it a success?
On my part, I consider it a failure on the Singaporeans' part because all of that work resulted in no profit until the Singaporeans handed to majority stakeholding over to China.
You don't go into business to put in a lot of work only for someone else to reap the profits.
If we're using your analogy above, you've taken the cat home, fed it, groomed it and brought it up healthy, but now it's gone to someone else's house to catch mice instead of yours. though at a reduced portion... 
.. but the world aint perfect...
take it easy... we learn something as well... nothing is ever smooth sailing... that is why life is challenging... otherwise.. life would be boring...
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Well and good, trip, I can live with what you described above. Singapore got screwed, but they've come out of it a little smarter and they need to learn to better manage their dealings with China in future collaborations. Trying to sell Suzhou as a success for Singapore, on the other hand, is pure delusion.Originally posted by tripwire:you forget.... we are still a shareholder in the project... so we get a share of that profit as well... though at a reduced portion... .. but the world aint perfect...
take it easy... we learn something as well... nothing is ever smooth sailing... that is why life is challenging... otherwise.. life would be boring... -
I noe a bit slow har. When China decides to take back SIP, this move came before or after LHL's visit to Taiwan?
And WHERE IS my EVIDENCE OF TEMASEK MADE $$ FROM SIP? -
everything can be altered, including information...
believe it or nt, is up to you actually... -
So have our lives gotten any better since this failure or sucess?
If you watched Just Follow Law, there is this scene where the characters go: "I don't get it leh, they say the economy go up, up, up... but our pay still low, low low... dunno how they count sia..."
Also, why is a person living in the UK thinking he has such a big say in many of the by and by aspects of Singaporean life? -
Global Crossing is a success!!!
Shin Corp is a success!!!
Optus is a success!!!
Delusions are rife!!! -
cos we didn't waste money building barriers in aboveground stations.Originally posted by LinYu:how come HK MTR lose money while SG MRT makes money?