The Hubris of a GEP student at RJC
-
I was wondering if i should let 'sleeping dogs' lie or just blog them ....Originally posted by ctstalin:I thought this saga was calming down a few days ago....until it was reported in ST
my blog suddenly got so many visitor
-
HAO LIAN!!!!!!!!!!Originally posted by ctstalin:I thought this saga was calming down a few days ago....until it was reported in ST
my blog suddenly got so many visitor -
Personally i dun think Singapore is practicing meritocracy at all. One of the first criteria for meritocracy is a fair playing field. Just look at the educational system. The materials the good school like RI, RJ, HCJC received are often better than schools like IJ PJ of YJ. U dont even have equal exposure so how can one say its a level playing field?Originally posted by dracky:This whole issue made me think that Singapore has taken meritocracy too far and misunderstood its role in Singapore.
It seems that those who succeed in our meritocratic society are deemed to be rightly rewarded for their effort or talent; those who fail are justly undeserving for sympathy for their lack of effort and talent. How we view the poor, the less talented, the less successful Singaporean is coloured by this misguided understanding of meritocracy.
A few years ago, during the recession, some students from an elite JC participated in a dialogue with union leaders and caused a furore with his remarks. Apparently, the student said something to the effect that workers who lost their jobs and were unemployed were simply too lazy or unwilling to upgrade their skills. A union leader took umbrage at these remarks. Some observers later pointed out that the student had misunderstood what it meant for Singapore to call itself a meritocratic society. -
Originally posted by NewAge:HAO LIAN!!!!!!!!!!
-
Yawn. Learn from the Gomez incident. Bite and dont let go. She is one of Singapore most important assert. She will be a leader in the field she chooses. The consequence of her thinking will be harmful to many ppl. This is why we shld not let the incident pass.Originally posted by gd4u:I was wondering if i should let 'sleeping dogs' lie or just blog them .... -
t3h h0rr0r.Originally posted by charlize:Maybe next year at nus, you might be in the same class as her.
Taking the same course.
Buddies in the same project. -
Hi,
My mistake, she is 18. I know some contributors here have said that she should be matured enough. Even so, I am at least a decade older so I have no choice but to pang chiu. And the reality is that most Singaporean youths that age or even early twenties are not politically savvy or socially aware.
She is not really bright as her views have shown and she relies on hyperbole to make a point. To me, these are clear signs of immaturity and of a young person still yet to be made aware of more facts.
That she comes across as arrogant, well, i can offer no defense for her but still doesn't warrant the kind of abuse she has been getting.
Ms Wee doesn't want give to others a chance, I prefer not to follow and will like to give her one. I do hope that Singapore can be a place where at least we can be forgiving towards the young. As we all know, old already no one gives you a chance.
Her father therefore, I am less forgiving. He is no longer a kid.
Have a good day all! -
If lowerly educated 18 yr old Singaporean males can be trained to use deadly arms responsibly, why can't Ms Wee response in a more mature manner as of expected from a well-educated scholar of similar age ?Originally posted by politicsinmotion:My mistake, she is 18. I know some contributors here have said that she should be matured enough. Even so, I am at least a decade older so I have no choice but to pang chiu. And the reality is that most Singaporean youths that age or even early twenties are not politically savvy or socially aware.
Don't forget, her blog reply was to a working professional who is twice her age, traveled extensively and who enjoys chatting with “losers” like taxi drivers.
Was it her arrogance or blame it on her naivety of 18 years ?
Allow me to quote a paragraph from her inflammatory reply to Derek which might lead you to conclude otherwise.
From Ms Wee, October 19, 2006
my future isnÂ’t certain but i guess right now itÂ’s a lot brighter than most peopleÂ’s.
derek will read this and brand me as an 18-year old elite, one of the sinners who will inherit the country and run his stock to the gutter. go ahead. the world is about winners and losers.
itÂ’s only sad when people who could be winners are marginalised and oppressed. is dear derek starving? has dear derek been denied an education? has dear derek been forced into child prostitution? has dear derek had his clan massacred by the government? -
Hi Gun,
I hope you will allow me to clarify my views. I had already said I will not defend her arrogance. I am also well aware of what she wrote.
Your example of NS is not a convincing one. I can respond that they may be allowed to hold guns but they are three years short of watching an RA movie and can't drive a car. I can also say that during my NS, guys held jerking off competitions to past time and I certainly don't remember any intelligent conversations from my time in camp. But does that say anything about the level of maturity?
I am open to being convinced otherwise but not on the strength of your present argument.
I am still of the opinion, that her inmature views, and even her arrogance, are reflective of her peers. I still remember the Chinese NTU student who, during the Q and A of a Miss Singapore Universe Pageant, answered that her favourite festival apart from her own was Racial Harmony Day.
Our disagreement is over what we should expect of an 18 year old. Your expectations are higher than mine, and you have a better impression of our youth. I don't expect much. As some other contributors have pointed out, she is highly educated in some ways but not in others. My impression of the Japanese culture-worshipping youths that crowd Orchard Road on the wekends is that they have no sense of history.
I can understand the emotional frustration you may feel towards her remarks. If you are unable to forgive her immaturity, then I suppose she has to live with the consequences of her statement. But this is not a fate that I will wish upon other bloggers of her age.
If you allow me to digress, Xiaxue's blog vexes me much more than Ms Wee's one article. Xiaxue's blog is a collection of poorly reasoned views wrapped in what has proved to be a popular writing style. It is all the more worrying. She has many immatured views, one of them being that Singaporeans who complain should just migrate. But I have kept numb on it, again, seeing her as a young person.
All the best! -
PIM, I'd just like to clarify what your key point is - is it that people shouldn't be so harsh towards little Miss Wee? If it isn't, I'm curious as to what you're actually debating here.
-
I really dun get ur pt. Why are u juxtaposing Xiaxue's blog with Wee Jr's blog, it's a different thing althogether? Unless u're saying that Xiaxue's blog is based upon flawed reasoning, yet it is so popular. Hence, people are not consistant in their judgement and are taking offence at Ms Weefor who she is?Originally posted by politicsinmotion:Hi Gun,
I hope you will allow me to clarify my views. I had already said I will not defend her arrogance. I am also well aware of what she wrote.
Your example of NS is not a convincing one. I can respond that they may be allowed to hold guns but they are three years short of watching an RA movie and can't drive a car. I can also say that during my NS, guys held jerking off competitions to past time and I certainly don't remember any intelligent conversations from my time in camp. But does that say anything about the level of maturity?
I am open to being convinced otherwise but not on the strength of your present argument.
I am still of the opinion, that her inmature views, and even her arrogance, are reflective of her peers. I still remember the Chinese NTU student who, during the Q and A of a Miss Singapore Universe Pageant, answered that her favourite festival apart from her own was Racial Harmony Day.
Our disagreement is over what we should expect of an 18 year old. Your expectations are higher than mine, and you have a better impression of our youth. I don't expect much. As some other contributors have pointed out, she is highly educated in some ways but not in others. My impression of the Japanese culture-worshipping youths that crowd Orchard Road on the wekends is that they have no sense of history.
I can understand the emotional frustration you may feel towards her remarks. If you are unable to forgive her immaturity, then I suppose she has to live with the consequences of her statement. But this is not a fate that I will wish upon other bloggers of her age.
If you allow me to digress, Xiaxue's blog vexes me much more than Ms Wee's one article. Xiaxue's blog is a collection of poorly reasoned views wrapped in what has proved to be a popular writing style. It is all the more worrying. She has many immatured views, one of them being that Singaporeans who complain should just migrate. But I have kept numb on it, again, seeing her as a young person.
All the best! -
"He supported the idea that it is indeed "survival of the fittest" in this society. To put it more crudely, he was trying to say that people over 40 are useless, unfit and therefore jobless, and that people cannot take this brutal truth. I look at MM Lee. He is still useful and actively serving Singapore at the age of 83. Of course people won't agree with Shu Wee that people over 40 are useless and unfit!"
Found on the blog where Shu Min first wrote an "unoffical" apology in.
http://weikiatblog.blogspot.com/2006/10/to-wee-wee.html -
How come he apologise can, gomez cannot?
-
At the age of 18, I think she should be mature enough not to write in such a rude, condescending and arrogant manner. An argument is made so that both parties would gain a better understanding of the issue. It's purpose is NOT for parties to insult each other or to make themselves feel intellectually or morally superior than the other. It's hard to have a rational and civil discussion when the argument is written in a way that provokes alot of hatred and anger. It will detract the focus on the issue itself and place more focus on the messenger and the way it was presented instead. With that said, however, when I do a self-analysis of myself, I find it hypocritical of me if I were to criticize Miss Wee's views when I share more of her views than that of Mr Derek's.
*puts on flame retardant suit*
When I bought my Creative mp3 player, I didn't buy it because it was made from a local company. I bought it because it was cheaper and had more features that I liked. So if a foreign company produced a better product, I would choose that one. And if Ms Wee's personality is a reflection of the behavior of local highly-educated females, then I think it is ok for Singaporean males to marry down or to marry foreign women. You can't force people to choose local women or women of a certain age. Even if you think it is wrong, the one that is criticized should the person or society not the government.
Most importantly of course, is that I am a huge EPL fan. I don't support local soccer. My favorite club is Arsenal, a team that is made up of players from all over the world and whose management only offers a 1-year contract to players above 30. As a result talented players like Robert Pires and Patrick Viera has left. But on the other hand, it allowed younger talent like Cesc Fabregas, Van Persie and Theo Walcott to blossom. However, I do think that a right mix of experience and youth is vital to the team. Young Walcott can learn alot from Captain Henry even though Henry is not English. I think it is ok to discriminate against age depending on what job it is. You don't really want a coach that is too young or player that is too old.
Wenger has changed Arsenal's football from the traditional English long ball to a more attacking minded, attractive passing football. He has also instilled practices that are non-English. No more improper diets or heavy drinking. The foreign players has also learnt from the English player's physical, never-give-up attitude. Wenger has been criticized for not fielding more English players but the local English players are overpriced. Carrick for 18.6m pounds? That's crazy. Furthermore, if you look at Ashley Cole, just because they are English does not mean that they are more loyal.
So how do you solve the problem of English players not being able to get into the 1st team? Do you blame the foreign players or do you look at the youth system to see why the English players are not as technically gifted as their foreign counterparts? Why are very few English players playing overseas? Sure, the FA can make it a requirement for teams to field lots more English players. But that would make EPL less of a success and make it hard for English clubs to compete in the Champions League. So, really, a more appropriate title for Mr Derek's argument would be the Future of Singaporeans because the Future of Singapore will be bright. -
Gomez not PAP, duh!Originally posted by unignal:How come he apologise can, gomez cannot? -
Originally posted by BillyBong:The response from the RJC student is highly robust but rather petulant, clearly stemming from youthful inexperience.
They say you never know the problem until you experience it. Like taking public transport, you will never feel the pinch of a 'minor' price hike unless you are a regular. How could high-paying ministers possibly comprehend the dissent of the people by driving to work daily?
That is basically the downside of her argument. Coming from a well-to-do home, having food on the table and going to elite schools, she hasn't yet endured the hardships of fighting for a rice bowl, nor humbly writing in for job interviews and not getting picked.
To her credit, she did admit to that; so really the question is why she would suddenly go on a tirade of lambasting Derek Wee over a couple of general comments that have been the earful of every govt minister on a daily basis?
Complaints to level the playing field, more opportunities for the people and changing the presiding 'elitist' mindset is not new, and Derek Wee is hardly the first person to enlighten us on this fact.
With such a blossoming start to her teritiary education, she is likely to have that 'red carpet' treatment for her future career. Thus before actually interacting with 'middle class whiners', she shouldn't take it upon herself to pass sweeping remarks that do nothing other than to serve their own ego. True, in any society, democracy and communism, there will also be a certain proportion of dissenters; communism works for the poor masses, true democracy champions capitalism and meritocracy.
While each has its merits, the trick is to manoeuvre so that you can find that niche for yourself. Complaining because others have done better than yourself will only serve to ignore your own weaknesses and eventually compound your own self-inflicted misery.
Put it simply, if we as a people spend less time complaining about the things to which we already have the answers, then the focus on REAL problems can be adequately addressed. -
Hi all,
Thanks for trying to understand my remarks. I'lll try to make myself as plain as possible.
To Gedekan, "people shouldn't be so harsh towards little Miss Wee" is one of my points I'm trying to make because, in my view, she is still young.
And to Quincy's remark, "Unless u're saying that Xiaxue's blog is based upon flawed reasoning, yet it is so popular. Hence, people are not consistant in their judgement and are taking offence at Ms Wee for who she is?"
Yes that is exactly what I'm saying. Take a cursory glance at Xiaxue's blog and you'll find that her writings are certainly as immature and obnoxious as Ms Wee's (she is also older) but on a much larger scale but you don't see anyone looking at Xiaxue's blog and saying "Wah...our education system produce this kind of student."
I am not defending Ms Wee, and as I have previously posted, I don't agree with her views, but at the same time, I think there are too many inferences being drawn from too little, and the insults wholly unnecessary.
Thanks! -
Originally posted by kheldorin:
She wrote that piece in her blog (i.e. diary). Of course the blog is opened for everyone to read.However, there are quite many ppl speak like her in the internet.
[b]At the age of 18, I think she should be mature enough not to write in such a rude, condescending and arrogant manner. An argument is made so that both parties would gain a better understanding of the issue. It's purpose is NOT for parties to insult each other or to make themselves feel intellectually or morally superior than the other. It's hard to have a rational and civil discussion when the argument is written in a way that provokes alot of hatred and anger. It will detract the focus on the issue itself and place more focus on the messenger and the way it was presented instead. With that said, however, when I do a self-analysis of myself, I find it hypocritical of me if I were to criticize Miss Wee's views when I share more of her views than that of Mr Derek's. -
I also infering from you what, but infer correctly wad..Originally posted by politicsinmotion:Hi all,
Thanks for trying to understand my remarks. I'lll try to make myself as plain as possible.
To Gedekan, "people shouldn't be so harsh towards little Miss Wee" is one of my points I'm trying to make because, in my view, she is still young.
And to Quincy's remark, "Unless u're saying that Xiaxue's blog is based upon flawed reasoning, yet it is so popular. Hence, people are not consistant in their judgement and are taking offence at Ms Wee for who she is?"
Yes that is exactly what I'm saying. Take a cursory glance at Xiaxue's blog and you'll find that her writings are certainly as immature and obnoxious as Ms Wee's (she is also older) but on a much larger scale but you don't see anyone looking at Xiaxue's blog and saying "Wah...our education system produce this kind of student."
I am not defending Ms Wee, and as I have previously posted, I don't agree with her views, but at the same time, I think there are too many inferences being drawn from too little, and the insults wholly unnecessary.
Thanks!
Just Kidding. You made ur pt. -
If I have such a daughter, I will disown her.
If I am her teacher, I will ask for transfer immediately.
If I am her boyfriend, I will jump in front of the next approaching train.
But I happen to be Sg citizen ....... oh gosh.....where to hide?? -
If you're her boyfriend...i suggest you execute your suggestion quickly...heard somewhere that the mole at that position spells trouble for the husband...dunno true or notOriginally posted by thinkloud2004:
If I have such a daughter, I will disown her.
If I am her teacher, I will ask for transfer immediately.
If I am her boyfriend, I will jump in front of the next approaching train.
But I happen to be Sg citizen ....... oh gosh.....where to hide?? -
High IQ = Low EQ + No Empathy and Shitty Character ?
And it scares me to wonder if she is only one of many
in our GEP/scholar/elite system. -
This has to be one of the smartest replies in this thread, and for that matter, in SgForums everOriginally posted by thinkloud2004:
If I have such a daughter, I will disown her.
If I am her teacher, I will ask for transfer immediately.
If I am her boyfriend, I will jump in front of the next approaching train.
But I happen to be Sg citizen ....... oh gosh.....where to hide?? -
While I didn't follow your previous post,Originally posted by politicsinmotion:Hi all,
Thanks for trying to understand my remarks. I'lll try to make myself as plain as possible.
To Gedekan, "people shouldn't be so harsh towards little Miss Wee" is one of my points I'm trying to make because, in my view, she is still young.
And to Quincy's remark, "Unless u're saying that Xiaxue's blog is based upon flawed reasoning, yet it is so popular. Hence, people are not consistant in their judgement and are taking offence at Ms Wee for who she is?"
Yes that is exactly what I'm saying. Take a cursory glance at Xiaxue's blog and you'll find that her writings are certainly as immature and obnoxious as Ms Wee's (she is also older) but on a much larger scale but you don't see anyone looking at Xiaxue's blog and saying "Wah...our education system produce this kind of student."
I am not defending Ms Wee, and as I have previously posted, I don't agree with her views, but at the same time, I think there are too many inferences being drawn from too little, and the insults wholly unnecessary.
Thanks!
I wish to comment on your comparison with Xiaxue.
I would just say, the difference here is that
Ms Wee is a GEP/scholar, with an MP dad.
What that implies is quite obvious right? -
If I had a daughter like her, I will first ask my ancestor for forgivenness then do some deep soul searching together with my wife to find out what went wrong.Originally posted by thinkloud2004:
If I have such a daughter, I will disown her.
If I am her teacher, I will ask for transfer immediately.
If I am her boyfriend, I will jump in front of the next approaching train.
But I happen to be Sg citizen ....... oh gosh.....where to hide??
If I were her teacher, I quite RJC, it is not the kind of school I would want to be associated with.
If I were her boyfriend, I will dump her RIGHT NOW, before she find out I were not the kind of elite she thinks I was.
As a Sg citizen, I now realize the environment in Sg is not so clean, there are S h i t s around too,..... but, hey, her father is an MP, ......the s h i t s are right over your head man..... sigh....