People who left Singapore, please stand up!
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Originally posted by kaister:Nomood, that's australia you're talking about. People there are less uptight. There's a huge population of Asian immigrants there. Similar comparison cannot be made for every other place on earth.
The feeling of second-rated citizen comes after mixing with the locals, not before. Try asking the malays in Singapore if they ever feel discriminated against every now and then. Even though you might be laughing on your exterior, but deep inside you know how they treat you differently.
Which was why i asked where have you been in the last 6 years?
mileage varies from person to person and place to place. I dare not speak for others in other countries, but only for me and the people i know in australia.
'quitting' does not necessarily mean you need to be a 2nd class citizen. i think that's a misconception that ought to be cleared up. -
Uhh, who's being defensive here? I didn't mention anything about quitters in my post, so why bring it up? If you're going off the rails like that, you need to reconsider who's being defensive.Originally posted by kaister:Gedanken, do you think I want to stick around for 6 years? Due to work committments, I don't have a choice. Before you generalise and impose your comments on me, please do some thinking first.
Besides, all I've done was to raise some points supported by some examples. Is there a need to be so defensive? Why are you so paranoid about being branded a quitter?
Note: Unlike you, I don't judge people before I know them, that's why I don't call you a quitter. Quit judging people before you even got your facts right.
My point is very simple and makes no judgement. I'm saying that if you've gone over to a country voluntarily and found that life is miserable, the commonsense thing to do is to go back to Singapore or wherever you feel welcome. Sticking around for six years just doesn't make any sense, does it?
So you see, I'm not making any judgements here at all. I'm just pointing out that what you've written simply doesn't make sense.
Mind you, if what the government says is to be believed, it's easier to find a job in Singapore than wherever you are, just so long as you're hardworking and apply yourself. Would you happen to be disagreeing with the party line here? -
Yes, I agree going to another country doesn't mean you have to be a 2nd class citizen. It would depend on the country and the culture. That's why I've mentioned that australia is different.Originally posted by nomood: Which was why i asked where have you been in the last 6 years?
mileage varies from person to person and place to place. I dare not speak for others in other countries, but only for me and the people i know in australia.
'quitting' does not necessarily mean you need to be a 2nd class citizen. i think that's a misconception that ought to be cleared up.
I'm not comfortable about disclosing my whereabouts, but I can say that I've been to some European countries and the grass is not greener on that side. -
I merely bring up the subject of quitter to show I don't judge people like you. Learn to read.Originally posted by Gedanken:Uhh, who's being defensive here? I didn't mention anything about quitters in my post, so why bring it up? If you're going off the rails like that, you need to reconsider who's being defensive.
My point is very simple and makes no judgement. I'm saying that if you've gone over to a country voluntarily and found that life is miserable, the commonsense thing to do is to go back to Singapore or wherever you feel welcome. Sticking around for six years just doesn't make any sense, does it?
So you see, I'm not making any judgements here at all. I'm just pointing out that what you've written simply doesn't make sense.
Mind you, if what the government says is to be believed, it's easier to find a job in Singapore than wherever you are, just so long as you're hardworking and apply yourself. Would you happen to be disagreeing with the party line here?
Make no judgement? Look through your post. You assume anyone who stayed for 6 years and not happy is an idiot with no common sense to leave that place.Originally posted by Gedanken:Spot-on, nomood. You don't even need to pick up a slang or anything of the sort to get along - all you have to do is not shut people out. People only become second-class citizens in their own minds.
Kaister, if you have indeed been treated as a second class citizen for six years, wouldn't you be feeling kind of foolish for sticking around for so long? Anybody with sense would have left long ago if they were being treated so poorly.
As I've said, don't pass judgement because you don't know everyone's situation. The statement only doesn't make sense to you because you've no idea of other people's situation. Try empathy sometimes?
I've never agree with the government mind you. Since when did I say that? Look who's gone off the rail by bringing the government up
I've only brought up 2 valid points. Racism and crime rate. That's all. Both of which you failed to show how I am wrong. -
Well, if you're going to bring up the quitters issue along with a lack of job opportunities, you've opened the door to what the government has had to say about opportunities for Singaporeans at home and overseas. All I've done is extrapolate. Why complain when I take you up on points that you raised?
You've misunderstood the nature of empathy - if someone doesn't know enough about what you're talking about, you've got no business asking for empathy if you don't make an effort to show what you mean. Look, if you want to explain how you've gotten yourself stranded in a place for six years, I'm happy to take your perspective on it. If all you're to carry on about is how miserable your conditions are without justifying why you're continuing to stay there, what do you expect me to make of it?
As far as what you've said goes, you're somewhere overseas and you hate it, and you make some vague reference about work commitments keeping you there. There's little, if anything, to say that your misery is not self-inflicted, and I stand by my point that it doesn't make any sense to stay in such a situation without substantial reason.
If you want to take that as judgement, it's coming from your warped interpretation of what I'm saying. All I'm doing is pointing out the lack of logic, but if you want to feel persecuted, well, that just goes to support my point about people being second-class in their own minds. I'm not judging you - you seem to be judging yourself.
It's very simple. You've put forward no clear reason why you can't go somewhere else instead of being miserable where you are. Now if you said that you specialised in studying quarks and you're stuck in horrible Switzlerland because CERN is the only place where you can do your work, you'd have all my sympathy. However, you've prevented no compelling reason for your staying where you are, and if you're going to continue to do so, the commonsense conclusion is that you want to stay there, even though (or maybe because) you feel miserable there. No sympathy or empathy in that case - the angst is self-inflicted.
On a side note, how does pointing out my personal experience with a break-in in Singapore, which was in response to your point about break-ins elsewhere, constitute " jumping up and down like an enraged monkey"? Care to explain that one, in light of your claim to be non-judgemental?
If anything, you're the one who seems to have an interest in escalating things here. I suggest you take a deep breath and regain control of your emotions - it'll help you think more clearly. -
today weather very hot hor.... over here got over 60 case of forest fire... ok ok.. lets carry on with the topic.. who left singapore har? please stand up!..... those that already stand up b4 can sit down ok. dun need to die cock stand one .....
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In NZ for three years now, miss Sg lotz and will be back soon. Got an interesting story to share however.
I met an ex-Singaporean in NZ who happens to be PM Lee's uncle, MM Lee's bro-in law. He is currently living in Wellington sub-urb but has a number of properties lying around the country and also runs a backpacker in Wellington City. I was spending a night at his backpacker once and had a chat with him.
He's an established musician, pretty much travelled and toured the world and lived for quite sometime in UK b4 migrating to NZ. Despite being closely related to the Lee family, he absolutely dispise them, about half the time I was listening to him F***ing the Lees unside down, inside out, left right center. But anyway, while he chose not to reside in Sg because he refuses to be in the same country with his relatives and other reasons, he does however, concurred that the safety of other countries are much worse compared to Singapore. Although he do not reside in Sg, he does travel back to visit other more loved relatives.
I think coming from a guy like him, there's certainly some credits to the low crime rate and security of Sg. -
Well, wisefool, how safe is safe?
I've lived in Australia and the US, and while the crime statistics say that Singapore is safer than both of them, what's the difference in real terms?
I can certainly say that I've never had to worry about being robbed or involved in a drive-by shooting, and in contrast when I'm in Singapore I become very aware of the eye contact I make with people, in order to make sure I avoid getting into a "staring incident". Mind you, in 1CDO we had vigilance to threats drummed into us and the threat radar's been kept on ever since, and I can honestly say I feel no safer in Singapore than in Australia or stateside.
Now if I was living in Johannesburg I'd be somewhat fidgety, but by and large safety isn't a big issue for most countries in day-to-day terms IMHO. Next to what I get out of living in Australia, the statistics are effectively meaningless. -
In contrast, I never had any problem with eye staring incidents in Singapore, not even when I'm walking in Geyland area in middle of night. But I do get occassional provocations along the streets of New Zealand, certainly more than Singapore. I can honestly say I feel much safer in Singapore than in New Zealand.Originally posted by Gedanken:Well, wisefool, how safe is safe?
I've lived in Australia and the US, and while the crime statistics say that Singapore is safer than both of them, what's the difference in real terms?
I can certainly say that I've never had to worry about being robbed or involved in a drive-by shooting, and in contrast when I'm in Singapore I become very aware of the eye contact I make with people, in order to make sure I avoid getting into a "staring incident". Mind you, in 1CDO we had vigilance to threats drummed into us and the threat radar's been kept on ever since, and I can honestly say I feel no safer in Singapore than in Australia or stateside.
Now if I was living in Johannesburg I'd be somewhat fidgety, but by and large safety isn't a big issue for most countries in day-to-day terms IMHO. Next to what I get out of living in Australia, the statistics are effectively meaningless.
So we have contrasting opinions due to our individual different experiences. Individually, these experiences are hardly conclusive, just because you alone felt safe in the states does not mean the school children who just got involved in a school shooting incident felt safe. Similarly, just because I felt safe in Singapore doesn't mean that a poor lady who got mugged twice along the streets will feel the same.
What matters therefore is the collective experience of all of us. Given enough data, it is possible to estimate the possiblility of encountering an undesirable security incident. The crime rate provides to a certain degree such estimation. Provided that all or at least most of us who got mugged and such report our cases, the crime rate can at least indicate and compare what are the chances of becoming a victim. Certainly the statistic is an estimation and is constrain by geographical and generalisation of data, but if statistics are not used as an objective indicator, what can we use? -
Good question, wisefool. For lack of a better measure for comparison, we do have statistics on hand, but as you've observed, we do need to be careful about what we take away from those statistics.
In my line of work, I have to deal with statistical interpretation on a daily basis, and more often than not I've got to explain to my clients how they cannot extrapolate their results to the nth degree, and instead to focus specifically upon applying the results to themselves and their own situations.
This brings me back to my question - how safe is safe? Do the statistics really provide so much proof that we can definitely say, "Look at the crime rate there - we can't possibly live there"? For the reasons you've put forward, it looks like that would be the way to jump to conclusions. -
There is a MRT cases in Clementi. There is something wrong with this place. Time to move to other countries with a higher HAPPY Index than Singapore. There is so many unhapiness and stress arise in Singapore. Enough of it!! Increasing cost and poors! Riches are too Rich!!
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Greetings from Canada....its snowing in Whistler...cool!!!!
Well...let's just say that there's going to be more deaths by MRT......its just a fact of life...and to think that MRT can stop it??? Fat hope....
Anyway...any ex-sg here in Canada?? Let's meet up man -
Well, if you do not like your situation where you are, I guess there's a simple straight forward solution, move on.
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GST increase..time to move.
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if you move, arent you a FT there too?
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FT there is still better then LT in singapore.Originally posted by MrDeeJay:if you move, arent you a FT there too?
LT don't really mean local talent to the gov, maybe Lower T -
Where I am, nobody even thinks in terms of FTs, LTs or any other Ts that you care to name.Originally posted by MrDeeJay:if you move, arent you a FT there too?