no one will be left behind
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...so said the president....but i beg to differ, many are already being left behind...the elites are so far ahead that they couldn't see anyone behind them and so they assume everyone is walking at the same pace....that is until the mrt begin to experience many unintended 'disruptions'...
do not rely on the govt they say....yet the irony is that every mp they have out there relies on the govt to see through the rest of their lives....from shoo-in to double income when their day jobs already pay well and then to mp pension for life after they leave politics.... isn't that welfarism? unfortunately it's money going to those who have no need at all....
i was brought up in a education system that constantly told me pap was the only one and i believed it until about a decade ago....when i began seeing the arrogance and lack of compassion in their eyes........choosing to gratify themselves first until they remember that they alone do not make up the numbers............ -
live in singapore no diff frm livin in iraq or n.korea...
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There IS a difference. SG has no nuculear (I purposely spell liddat can?Originally posted by tt3:live in singapore no diff frm livin in iraq or n.korea...
) capabilities to speak of... -
......you live in Iraq or N.Korea before?Originally posted by tt3:live in singapore no diff frm livin in iraq or n.korea... -
That is a bit extreme. We are (the majority) better off than most other countries. While I agree that there is much work to be done by the current govt (they have not evolve to meet the expectations of today's Singaporean), there is humongous difference between us and those in Iraq/PyonYangOriginally posted by tt3:live in singapore no diff frm livin in iraq or n.korea... -
Just another pack of BULLSH|T... To think that part actually took up that much of the NEWS reporting session... Only goes to show much they control the MEDIA and HOW MUCH they wish to BRAINWASH US....Originally posted by countdracula:...so said the president....but i beg to differ, many are already being left behind...the elites are so far ahead that they couldn't see anyone behind them and so they assume everyone is walking at the same pace....that is until the mrt begin to experience many unintended 'disruptions'...
do not rely on the govt they say....yet the irony is that every mp they have out there relies on the govt to see through the rest of their lives....from shoo-in to double income when their day jobs already pay well and then to mp pension for life after they leave politics.... isn't that welfarism? unfortunately it's money going to those who have no need at all....
i was brought up in a education system that constantly told me pap was the only one and i believed it until about a decade ago....when i began seeing the arrogance and lack of compassion in their eyes........choosing to gratify themselves first until they remember that they alone do not make up the numbers............
I thought it has always been 'RICH should be richer and POOR should be poorer'....?? Why now trying to CONVINCE people to WORK HARDER for them so that they can be RICHER iSSIT...??
YOU CAN KEEP YOUR PEANUTS TO YOURSELVES MAN... -
Yeah.. we oughta throw the lao hong peanuts back to the real monkeys!Originally posted by Devil1976:Just another pack of BULLSH|T... To think that part actually took up that much of the NEWS reporting session... Only goes to show much they control the MEDIA and HOW MUCH they wish to BRAINWASH US....
I thought it has always been 'RICH should be richer and POOR should be poorer'....?? Why now trying to CONVINCE people to WORK HARDER for them so that they can be RICHER iSSIT...??
YOU CAN KEEP YOUR PEANUTS TO YOURSELVES MAN...
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Not being left behind does not mean everyone will be equal. There will not and should not be equality in salaries. Remuneration should be based on merit and the value of services or goods that consumers are prepared to pay. One major change in recent years is that the suppliers and consumers have become global.
Why begrudge the CEOs, high flying lawyers and doctors their high salaries? Footballers, singers and movie stars are paid many times more. Why are footballers like David Beckham paid 10k GBP a week to play a game they enjoy? Because people are prepared to pay 100 GBP to watch him play. If people all over the world stop watching movies, movie stars will quickly reduce their asking price.
It's market forces that decide. The poorly paid in society should upgrade their skills and move up the food chain in the face of competition from the region. The government should help them move up the food chain. But they must be willing to work long shifts in protective clothing in a clean room. The fact is, people must be willing to help themselves. -
it is true they did not leave anyone behind.
they can still us suffering from far. -
No one will be left behind, but if you can't catch up, sorry to you.
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just know that these things will never change for us at all.
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they must be chanting "there is no free lunch, there is no free lunch, there is no free lunch, there is no free lunch...." in the background!!!
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for 10k, beckham wun get out of bed lah....he's paid 110k pounds a week.
no one left behind is an all encompassing sttment tt doesn't mean a great deal. the gamen puts $10 to your dbs a/c and they wld hv fulfilled tt commitment.
i think what sgporeans are after is a deeper truth. assuming sgp is a corporation; which in many ways it is, gven the sing inc. tag it loves to accord itself, the share of the pie for the profits[goodies] must hv an equitable and transparent distribution model. modern and ethical companies today spelt out clearly to all employees all aspects employment terms, etc. corporate governance dictates tt there is a systems of check and balances, and ways to address any discourse. of cos, there are still details tt are privy only to a few. still, broadly speaking, accountability is one of the hallmark of great companies.
can the same be said of this nation? so far, i have not seen the MIW come forward to take responsibility/accountability and apologize for aany of the boo boos they made. shin corp, political gaff, etc are all well documented. however, they are all infallible. after all, they came with high credentials; scholars, biznes leaders, lawyers, docs, etc. they think and talk down to its people, as if sgpreans are incapble of thinking or knowing better. and they dun tell the whole story, only in parts tt can reinforce their existence.
in the recent Time mag on asia's quests for sciences, it interviewed with dud yeo, sori, i meant philip. he proudly pronounced that he snatches scientists ww becos sgp has a shallow talent pool. guy's got a $45m budget for 3 yrs and FT gets the lion share. is it any wonder those folks want to come here, and i guess if their motivation is $ or their field of expertise.? sgp continuously overpay in many areas to masks it's own inadequacies or becos of some lofty goals it has. an ove- eager gahmen has no direction wat it wants sgp to be; now it just want to be everything.
so, no one left behind is a misnomer. it's a shallow promise at best, becos they have no inkling on what the everyday people want and desire in their daily life. dun be surprise if they barb wired out the premium areas and demarcate lines where the elites and heartlanders can n cannot go n future. kinda like in china years ago where i saw in guangzhou a walled, well trim garden in the city where it says at the gate; `only foreigners and dogs allowed'. -
a dead man is not consider "no one" so.... the no one will be left behind is true..... cos those left behind are "already" dead.
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BASE ON JUSTICE AND EQUALITY.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Not being left behind does not mean everyone will be equal. There will not and should not be equality in salaries. Remuneration should be based on merit and the value of services or goods that consumers are prepared to pay. One major change in recent years is that the suppliers and consumers have become global.
Why begrudge the CEOs, high flying lawyers and doctors their high salaries? Footballers, singers and movie stars are paid many times more. Why are footballers like David Beckham paid 10k GBP a week to play a game they enjoy? Because people are prepared to pay 100 GBP to watch him play. If people all over the world stop watching movies, movie stars will quickly reduce their asking price.
It's market forces that decide. The poorly paid in society should upgrade their skills and move up the food chain in the face of competition from the region. The government should help them move up the food chain. But they must be willing to work long shifts in protective clothing in a clean room. The fact is, people must be willing to help themselves.
That's WHY.
Nobody's BELITTLING THOSE PEOPLE if they EARN what THEY DESERVES.
NOT when ALMOST EVERYTHING could be BLINDED so that the POOR can be SQUEEZED DRIED FURTHER and FURTHER, SYSTEMS ABUSED and TAKEN IN OWN HANDS. While the ONES ON TOP just SIT and GROW FAT.
PEOPLE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE FOOD CHAIN IS EARNING WITH THEIR HARDSHIP TOO. DO THEY DESERVES TO BE ABUSED AND TREATED UNFAIRLY??
OR MAYBE WE SHOULD JUST HAVE MORE CHARITY SHOWS SO THAT PEOPLE CAN DONATE IN TO SOLVE THE SOCIAL PROBLEMS CREATED BY 'YOU KNOW WHO'?
AND PRAISE THEM FOR THE JOB WELL-DONE
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Beckham's pay of GBP10K per week is strictly determined by accountable and transparent market forces based on above-board supply and demand.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Not being left behind does not mean everyone will be equal. There will not and should not be equality in salaries. Remuneration should be based on merit and the value of services or goods that consumers are prepared to pay. One major change in recent years is that the suppliers and consumers have become global.
Why begrudge the CEOs, high flying lawyers and doctors their high salaries? Footballers, singers and movie stars are paid many times more. Why are footballers like David Beckham paid 10k GBP a week to play a game they enjoy? Because people are prepared to pay 100 GBP to watch him play. If people all over the world stop watching movies, movie stars will quickly reduce their asking price.
It's market forces that decide. The poorly paid in society should upgrade their skills and move up the food chain in the face of competition from the region. The government should help them move up the food chain. But they must be willing to work long shifts in protective clothing in a clean room. The fact is, people must be willing to help themselves.
A CEO who is paid S$10 millions per year by above-board market supply and demand where candidates respond to advertisements based on pre-defined terms and conditions and remuneration packages made known to the market is fully entitled to such pay. No body is questioning such high pays for private company CEOs appointed in such above-board manner.
Ministers are elected by the citizens without their pay packages being determined in advance or agreed to by them. After ministers take office they then tell the world that they are entitled to benchmark their pays to the boss-categories in the private sector many of whom actually got their highest pays by public advertisement application or by above-board process.
So there is no true comparison that ministers' pays are the same as those for the footballers or CEOs in private sector who could not increase their own pays except by responding to a public advertisement with proper application.
If there is no such stringent criteria laid down, that will mean any one who is a CEO can increase their own pays by benchmarking against the highest pays somewhere else?
That will be irregularies according to the Company Acts and the general laws.
The bigger issue today is whether ministers who have the power will want to use the power according to the law or rule of law like the ordinary CEOs in private sector many of whom have been sent to jail for increasing their own pays or benefits. -
singaporens shldn't complain abt the pap when they voted the pap in in the first place. >.<
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thats a wrong angle to view things.Originally posted by Tayysj:singaporens shldn't complain abt the pap when they voted the pap in in the first place. >.<
people vote pap because we have no other alternative. why?
because our opposition sucks. why?
because they keep screwing our opposition up such that there is no room for them to grow and expand. ie. through the use of the media and the courts.
when reporters in other countries get pissed off, and try to intervene, the govenment accuses them of meddling in "domestic politics" and bans the paper.
i mean, news is news, facts are facts, the government should just accept that and move on.
when our own reporters discuss about the government in a negative light, instead of trying to win back the hearts of the people by showing what is true and what isnt, the government destroys the reporter.
regarding the recent rule on why foreign publications have to select a representative in singapore, my take is so that the publication can be sued in LOCAL courts instead of elsewhere.
does it all add up now? -
Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
I think you are getting something wrong. NO ONE is asking for equality in salaries, they just want to survive in the ever-raising living cost Singapore.
Not being left behind does not mean everyone will be equal. There will not and should not be equality in salaries. Remuneration should be based on merit and the value of services or goods that consumers are prepared to pay. One major change in recent years is that the suppliers and consumers have become global.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
If you think demanding $10000 from a person who makes $1000 a month is reasonable, there is nothing for us to debate anymore.
Why begrudge the CEOs, high flying lawyers and doctors their high salaries? Footballers, singers and movie stars are paid many times more. Why are footballers like David Beckham paid 10k GBP a week to play a game they enjoy? Because people are prepared to pay 100 GBP to watch him play. If people all over the world stop watching movies, movie stars will quickly reduce their asking price.
Do you know the lifespan of a professional soccer player? Let's assume he starts playing at 17 and retires at 35, he only have 18 years to get the amount of money he need to survive for the rest of his life. Let's not forget that the paticular soccer player also have family.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
I believe it's the security of the job that worries people most. You can wake up one morning and find yourself fired, that is certainly not a good thing.
It's market forces that decide. The poorly paid in society should upgrade their skills and move up the food chain in the face of competition from the region. The government should help them move up the food chain. But they must be willing to work long shifts in protective clothing in a clean room. The fact is, people must be willing to help themselves. -
"Not being left behind does not mean everyone will be equal" ?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Not being left behind does not mean everyone will be equal. There will not and should not be equality in salaries. Remuneration should be based on merit and the value of services or goods that consumers are prepared to pay. One major change in recent years is that the suppliers and consumers have become global.
This must be some 'mushroom' philosophy bred in some mushy soil ?
Perhaps we should see what your perspective of equality will be, if we leave your type of mushrooms to breed in the sewer, while we grow some other more valuable mushrooms in cleaner surroundings.
What is merit, and should we not placed the criteria of merit on the social values as determined by a community or the society, or based on the subjective interests of the Rulers ?
Can there be any value or merit when the values of service or goods are monopolised by government linked companies, and the consumers have no choice but are forced to be dependent on GLCs for all their needs ?
Are Singaporeans the only ones begrudging CEOs and high flying lawyers and doctors for their high salaries ?
Why begrudge the CEOs, high flying lawyers and doctors their high salaries? Footballers, singers and movie stars are paid many times more. Why are footballers like David Beckham paid 10k GBP a week to play a game they enjoy? Because people are prepared to pay 100 GBP to watch him play. If people all over the world stop watching movies, movie stars will quickly reduce their asking price.
Is this not a fact that in Corporate America today, the US Shareholders are now revolting and demanding a clamp down on the runaway remunerations paid to the US CEOs; and also objecting to the ridiculously obscene fees that are charged by lawyers and doctors leading to the high remunerations paid to these individuals ?
David Beckham's salary is nothing more that the greed of marketing personnels in setting trends to grab headlines.
Eventually, it will be the audiences who will be paying for the consequences of such high value trading and exchange of football talents - and this has even extended to F-1 Drivers between racing teams.
Such highly publicized high value trading of sports personalities are first supported by various industries, who will recover the costs from consumers and fans of these sports.
Is there any other reasons for the Cost of Living continuously rising, except that it is a conspiracy of the Rich, to milk the Global Consumers.
Can market forces decide on salaries, or is it not the case in which the Singapore Government interfere with market mechanism whenever the market forces do not meet their intended outcome ?
It's market forces that decide. The poorly paid in society should upgrade their skills and move up the food chain in the face of competition from the region. The government should help them move up the food chain. But they must be willing to work long shifts in protective clothing in a clean room. The fact is, people must be willing to help themselves.
Again, your nonsense is repeated without any empathy to the constraints that the poorly paid in society can upgrade their skills and move up the food chain.
Singaporeans have always been helping themselves, but is the Government helping Singaporeans to help ourselves ?
While you were perched on top of your ivory tower, did you learn of two elderly women who prefer to eke out a living by selling wanton noodles rather then live on Social Welfare.
These two elderly women were forced to purchase the foodstall at the HDB built and managed food centre, when HDB decide not to be a landlord.
The food stall was priced at market rates, which the daily sales collection was insufficient to pay for the loan installment to purchase the food stall.
Both elderly women were hauled to court to be made bankrupts, when repeated extension dates were defaulted.
Here is a case of two elderly women prepared to help themselves, but is the Government helping these Singaporeans ?
Where were you when these two elderly women were struggling ?
What do you expect these two elderly women to upgrade to, and prepare themselves for which trade or industry ? -
This is so sad. I have some experience with sg courts. Those kiddo judges (young elites?) know nothing abt life. In my opinion, they dun have the right to judge anyone.Originally posted by Atobe:While you were perched on top of your ivory tower, did you learn of two elderly women who prefer to eke out a living by selling wanton noodles rather then live on Social Welfare.
These two elderly women were forced to purchase the foodstall at the HDB built and managed food centre, when HDB decide not to be a landlord.
The food stall was priced at market rates, which the daily sales collection was insufficient to pay for the loan installment to purchase the food stall.
Both elderly women were hauled to court to be made bankrupts, when repeated extension dates were defaulted.
Here is a case of two elderly women prepared to help themselves, but is the Government helping these Singaporeans ?
Where were you when these two elderly women were struggling ?
What do you expect these two elderly women to upgrade to, and prepare themselves for which trade or industry ?
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Wow, I have forgotten about this case. Oh my do we have failing memories. Somehow, these issues were never highlighted during the last election.Originally posted by Atobe:
These two elderly women were forced to purchase the foodstall at the HDB built and managed food centre, when HDB decide not to be a landlord.
The food stall was priced at market rates, which the daily sales collection was insufficient to pay for the loan installment to purchase the food stall.
Both elderly women were hauled to court to be made bankrupts, when repeated extension dates were defaulted.
Here is a case of two elderly women prepared to help themselves, but is the Government helping these Singaporeans ?
Anyway, nothing would have changed. Given the changing boundaries and all those walkovers.
We should take from Thailand's election. One to one voting and separate voting of MP from political party. -
The decision to benchmark Minister's pay was made in the open, debated in Parliament and the media. It was no hush-hush. Singaporeans had many opportunities after that to vote out the ruling party if they objected to the move. THAT DID NOT HAPPEN.Originally posted by robertteh:Beckham's pay of GBP10K per week is strictly determined by accountable and transparent market forces based on above-board supply and demand.
A CEO who is paid S$10 millions per year by above-board market supply and demand where candidates respond to advertisements based on pre-defined terms and conditions and remuneration packages made known to the market is fully entitled to such pay. No body is questioning such high pays for private company CEOs appointed in such above-board manner.
Ministers are elected by the citizens without their pay packages being determined in advance or agreed to by them. After ministers take office they then tell the world that they are entitled to benchmark their pays to the boss-categories in the private sector many of whom actually got their highest pays by public advertisement application or by above-board process.
So there is no true comparison that ministers' pays are the same as those for the footballers or CEOs in private sector who could not increase their own pays except by responding to a public advertisement with proper application.
If there is no such stringent criteria laid down, that will mean any one who is a CEO can increase their own pays by benchmarking against the highest pays somewhere else?
That will be irregularies according to the Company Acts and the general laws.
The bigger issue today is whether ministers who have the power will want to use the power according to the law or rule of law like the ordinary CEOs in private sector many of whom have been sent to jail for increasing their own pays or benefits. -
vote the govt out just because we are unhappy with their salaries?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:The decision to benchmark Minister's pay was made in the open, debated in Parliament and the media. It was no hush-hush. Singaporeans had many opportunities after that to vote out the ruling party if they objected to the move. THAT DID NOT HAPPEN.
isnt that a bit extreme? -
For the next GE mayb we should really think if PAP deserves our vote. Dont let their forte (Talk n no action) control your vote.
We want a gahmen that listen to us and not those elitist. Talk and listen to the people who are behind those who are living comfortably. Think before giving speech to the nation. If you think we people of Singapore is living happily, think again.
How many of us know who are those MPs who take charge of our area? Dont appear , smile and show face standing on the pickup ONLY during GE. DUDE, you think we never notice ah? We are not stupid people who whole day only know how to nod head and agree to everything the Gahmen says.
No one will be left behind. If you care enough and really open your eyes and see, many people are already too far behind you. Do you really think that your PAP clan can really continue serving the nation in near future? Your confidence level very high ? Dont take every peaceful moment for granted in this country you guys rule. If a fire is ignore, it can cause serious problem. If you cant practice what you preach, sooner or later, matter of time, the chaos will start.