no one will be left behind
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First, I question your understanding of words. There isn't enough opposition voices in the Parliament and media, how does the word "debated" stand?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:The decision to benchmark Minister's pay was made in the open, debated in Parliament and the media. It was no hush-hush. Singaporeans had many opportunities after that to vote out the ruling party if they objected to the move. THAT DID NOT HAPPEN.
Next, I question your understanding of Singapore. You know who is the major shareholder of Mediacorp? It's Temasek Holding, a GLC. Do you expect a GLC to publish news / allow a public discussion that is unfavourable to the present Gahmen (and at the same time, hurt themselves
)?
Lastly (for this statement only), I question your mentality. Are you really so extreme to vote out promising candidates just because of a few unworthy person being over paid?
Sorry lor, the only place I saw/see my MP is when they appear on a large poster wishing the residents "Happy (dunno wat festival)" lor. They are so lazy that they dun even bother for a door-to-door walk for the election campaign.Originally posted by Syndicate:How many of us know who are those MPs who take charge of our area? Dont appear , smile and show face standing on the pickup ONLY during GE. DUDE, you think we never notice ah? We are not stupid people who whole day only know how to nod head and agree to everything the Gahmen says. -
The way things work is that everything gets decided and approved first.
Then you can go debate all you want in Parliament.
Just like the casino issue.
You can debate all you want.
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the argument tt the gahmen need to benchmark the `market rate' is an oxymoron. firstly, the folks in white aren't all first class. e.g. Wong KS was only a HR manager b4 entering politics. had he stayed on, he's just gonna be tt.
and listening to so many other MIW men speaking, including ministers, u can tell many dun't and cannot articulate well an idea or intent. everything is rehearsed and followed closely by the book. all blind followers on an idea of 1.
if u r a business leader or leader, u do the right thing, tk calculated risk, have a vision and can articulate a vision so followers can see the intent. I dun see many of these peeple runnin this country.
to accord them salaries unmatched anywhere in the world by themselves is ridiculous.
b4 long, sgp will have an hour glass society make-up; the haves and the have nots. the middle class will be squeezed out of the equation. many are at risk....the only way out is, to quote 50cents, `get rich or die trying'... -
Let's be honest here.Originally posted by weiqimun:the argument tt the gahmen need to benchmark the `market rate' is an oxymoron. firstly, the folks in white aren't all first class. e.g. Wong KS was only a HR manager b4 entering politics. had he stayed on, he's just gonna be tt.
and listening to so many other MIW men speaking, including ministers, u can tell many dun't and cannot articulate well an idea or intent. everything is rehearsed and followed closely by the book. all blind followers on an idea of 1.
if u r a business leader or leader, u do the right thing, tk calculated risk, have a vision and can articulate a vision so followers can see the intent. I dun see many of these peeple runnin this country.
to accord them salaries unmatched anywhere in the world by themselves is ridiculous.
b4 long, sgp will have an hour glass society make-up; the haves and the have nots. the middle class will be squeezed out of the equation. many are at risk....the only way out is, to quote 50cents, `get rich or die trying'...
Our current batch of people leading the country are all followers. Trying to get one good original idea that benefits Singapore from them is like squeezing water from a rock.
Yet the thing is they get paid a ridiculous sum of money just blindly following whatever is already happening in other countries.
The casino is one such issue. The rationale given by the government is that every other country is having one, so Singapore should have one too (or two or three).
And when you question them on their policies, they shoot back with a "give me your ideas then" kind of attitude. Damn, it's easy money if all you can do is just follow what other people are doing without having to think out good workable solutions that really benefit Singaporeans. -
I agree with wad weiqimun said:Originally posted by weiqimun:the argument tt the gahmen need to benchmark the `market rate' is an oxymoron. firstly, the folks in white aren't all first class. e.g. Wong KS was only a HR manager b4 entering politics. had he stayed on, he's just gonna be tt.
and listening to so many other MIW men speaking, including ministers, u can tell many dun't and cannot articulate well an idea or intent. everything is rehearsed and followed closely by the book. all blind followers on an idea of 1.
if u r a business leader or leader, u do the right thing, tk calculated risk, have a vision and can articulate a vision so followers can see the intent. I dun see many of these peeple runnin this country.
to accord them salaries unmatched anywhere in the world by themselves is ridiculous.
b4 long, sgp will have an hour glass society make-up; the haves and the have nots. the middle class will be squeezed out of the equation. many are at risk....the only way out is, to quote 50cents, `get rich or die trying'...
PAP have always used this 3 arguements to justify their high pay:
1) High pay helps to fight corruption
2) PAP ppls being highly educated, can easily find high paid white-collared jobs in the outside world.
3) High salary is needed to retain these PAP ppls on their jobs, and not quitting.
Does high pay really fight corruption? U see all those African countries producing gold and diamonds. These countries are plagued with wars and suffering of famine and drought and their rulers do nothing to improve their standards of living. Their rulers, warlords are rich, thus by PAP logic, this African leaders are not corrupted?
Yes PAP ppls boast of flowery credentials like scholars returning from overseas, PHDs, MBA.........., thus by this standard they must be highly paid. By this statement, can we conclude all PHD ppls deserve the same pay as them? Can we say all the prof in NTU, NUS, SMU deserves a place as MPs at least?
The last point is high pay retains these PAP ppls. Being a leader of a nation, ur duty is to serve the nation without fear nor favour. It should be ur honour and personal pride to be able to serve the ppl and gain their support. Thus can we question the sincerity and the aims of these PAP ppls when they enter the parliament or cabinet? -
Well, it goes back to what everybody has been asking:Originally posted by equlus84:I agree with wad weiqimun said:
PAP have always used this 3 arguements to justify their high pay:
1) High pay helps to fight corruption
2) PAP ppls being highly educated, can easily find high paid white-collared jobs in the outside world.
3) High salary is needed to retain these PAP ppls on their jobs, and not quitting.
Does high pay really fight corruption? U see all those African countries producing gold and diamonds. These countries are plagued with wars and suffering of famine and drought and their rulers do nothing to improve their standards of living. Their rulers, warlords are rich, thus by PAP logic, this African leaders are not corrupted?
Yes PAP ppls boast of flowery credentials like scholars returning from overseas, PHDs, MBA.........., thus by this standard they must be highly paid. By this statement, can we conclude all PHD ppls deserve the same pay as them? Can we say all the prof in NTU, NUS, SMU deserves a place as MPs at least?
The last point is high pay retains these PAP ppls. Being a leader of a nation, ur duty is to serve the nation without fear nor favour. It should be ur honour and personal pride to be able to serve the ppl and gain their support. Thus can we question the sincerity and the aims of these PAP ppls when they enter the parliament or cabinet?
If the pay wasn't pegged to the top private professions, the ministers will become corrupted? -
If you need high pay to ensure a person wouldn't be corrupted then clearly, that person has no integrity.Originally posted by charlize:Well, it goes back to what everybody has been asking:
If the pay wasn't pegged to the top private professions, the ministers will become corrupted?
And since that person has no integrity, giving him high pay wouldn't stop that person from being corrupted, would it? -
as i said, tt line of argument is an oxymoron. there is no logical conclusion to say tt if politicians are paid less, they will be corrupted. if the same line of rationalization is applied, then all workers who r not highly paid are liable to `cheat'. i m not sure abt u, but i am not well paid, but does it justify the above line of reasoning tt i will be `on the take'? no, i am governed by ethics and beliefs. so are many many others. not everyone is motivated by greed.Originally posted by charlize:Well, it goes back to what everybody has been asking:
If the pay wasn't pegged to the top private professions, the ministers will become corrupted?
but the gahmen cannot attract good people to run the govt becos of $$$, then i wld also argue tt all the stooges there right now are motivated by money. tt speaks poorly of their choice. still, i think many there now would not mind taking less pay becos some do have their nationalistic ideal to serve. the ones who r not keen are not the right fit anyway.
but to start off with the assumption tt these so-called leaders needs to be paid at the apex of salary level is downright illogical an criminal. at the end of the day, it is the tax payers who r paying their due, and for sure for the monies tt sgpreans pay, they are not getting their worth.... -
sad to say, the casino in sgp will be a flop. but i alredi know the retort from the gahmen. "it's an IR, not a casino....", but call it any other name, it's to draw gamblers in. and with just 2, it will pale in comparison with australia and macau. it will do roaring business the first 2-3 years, but after all the balohaa is gone, it will be downhill.Originally posted by charlize:The casino is one such issue. The rationale given by the government is that every other country is having one, so Singapore should have one too (or two or three).
the track record of the gahmen speaks for itself, it is slow to evolve and it lacked creativity and guts to make the change....always analysis paralysis and wait for others to try first. -
i think it will be a success. a lot of singaporeans will end up broke.Originally posted by weiqimun:sad to say, the casino in sgp will be a flop. but i alredi know the retort from the gahmen. "it's an IR, not a casino....", but call it any other name, it's to draw gamblers in. and with just 2, it will pale in comparison with australia and macau. it will do roaring business the first 2-3 years, but after all the balohaa is gone, it will be downhill.
the track record of the gahmen speaks for itself, it is slow to evolve and it lacked creativity and guts to make the change....always analysis paralysis and wait for others to try first. -
Casino owners with operations in Macau and Las Vegas are fighting to come in. You know something they don'tOriginally posted by weiqimun:sad to say, the casino in sgp will be a flop. but i alredi know the retort from the gahmen. "it's an IR, not a casino....", but call it any other name, it's to draw gamblers in. and with just 2, it will pale in comparison with australia and macau. it will do roaring business the first 2-3 years, but after all the balohaa is gone, it will be downhill. -
`fighting to come in...'? u gotta be joking. how many final bids does sg have for each of the ir?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Casino owners with operations in Macau and Las Vegas are fighting to come in. You know something they don't
do i know somethin' they dun? maybe... -
Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
The debate that happened in Parliament was not exactly a debate, as there were only two Opposition Members of Parliament against the entire SINGLE PARTY dominated Parliament.
The decision to benchmark Minister's pay was made in the open, debated in Parliament and the media. It was no hush-hush. Singaporeans had many opportunities after that to vote out the ruling party if they objected to the move. THAT DID NOT HAPPEN.
The backbenchers from the Ruling Party were hippocrates by laughing at the objections raised by the two honorable Opposition Members of Parliament, while some backbenchers from the Ruling Party had also voiced reservations and objections to this proposal.
Unfortunately, when it came for Parliament to vote on this piece of legislation, even those from the Ruling Party - who objected to this atrocious concept of benchmarking Minister's salary - had no choice but forced by the Party Parliamentary Whip to vote according to Party decision.
Was the official media allowed to carry the voice of Singaporeans, or were the official public media propagating louder then the dissenting voices of the majority of Singaporeans ?
During the subsequent elections, more than half of Singapore's Population did not participate due to the gerrymeandering of political boundaries, and changes to the election rules for political candidates which forced the outcome of many walk-overs in favor of the Ruling Party.
Were Singaporeans allowed the opportunity of voting on this issue, or was it over-ridden by vote bribing with promises of upgrading services ?
If Singapore election rules had followed that of Thailand, our Elections that have been conducted would have also been declared void, as there was less than half of the Singaporean population participating in the election process. -
the casino will only do more good than harm...
of course the government will blame the citizens for their own 'lack of self control'..
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coming back to the topic,
cnn reported tt migrants/illegal aliens tt work in the USA lowered the paycheck of entry level jobs held previously by americans by 8%, and the gahmen there grapple with the high cost of managing crime, health care, insurance coverage and other associated costs. the corporation/businesses obviously are the beneficiary of this with better bottom line. many interest groups are trying to control and manage the situation so americans are not squeezed out, especially the middle class.
the diff here is the sg gahmen actually encourage these FT's to come in. there is no discernable benefits of these ppl coming in. most send monies back and have no allegience to the country. the crime and vice they indulge in are uncheck. i drove by from nicoll hwy to sengkang, passing thru' a stretch of geylang road into macpherson and u can see the rot in that area. soliciting and prositution are now done in the open along side major road arteries. pimps with their girls stand on the side, standing in lines in full view of motorists and passerby while trades are being done. nothing is done by the pohlize. everynite, it is the same disgusting scene. i dun recall having seen this before. tt vice spreading now to heartlands are well publicised. but why shld the authority care? they are all pre-occupied with more important things in life, like buiding the sports hub, enthralling tourists with its spunky new arts/cultural image, getting sg into the world maps of life sciences and remaking sg with new tagline.
no one left behind my a$$.... -
Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
"Casino owners with operations in Macau and Las Vegas are fighting to come in" to Singapore ?
Casino owners with operations in Macau and Las Vegas are fighting to come in. You know something they don't
How many bids did the Singapore Government received from the few privately owned Casino operators in Macau and Las Vegas ?
Here is a 'list of casinos in Macau - and none looked familiar in the recent concluded exercises for the IR at Marina, nor the 'yet-to-be-decided' outcome for the Sentosa IR.
From the following list of casinos based in Las Vegas, and also from Atlantic City, USA, or from the list of casinos based in Australia - are there so many participants "fighting to get into the Singapore IR operations" ?
Taking the cue from a report by Channel NewsAsia dated 28 March 2006, it indicated that from a field of 19 interested parties, it was quickly reduced to 12, and shortlisted to only 4 final bidders for the Marina IR.
A recent report from Channel NewsAsia dated 10 October 2006 had merely mentioned that "contenders for the Sentosa IR added sparks to the bidding process with revelations about their proposals".
However, nothing was said about the number of bids received for the Sentosa IR - except that Genting from Malaysia had a surprise $5 BILLION plan for Sentosa, as well as a similar $5 BILLION bid by the Eight Wonder Group from Las Vegas, and the bid from Atlantis, USA by Kerzner International.
From the above reports, it hardly show the huge enthusiasm of casino operators from Macau and Las Vegas coming over in droves to actually make serious bids for the two Singapore IR projects - as purported by your usual "trumpet blowing efforts" for the POWER OF ONE. -
they are warming up for the opening of the casino.Originally posted by weiqimun:coming back to the topic,
cnn reported tt migrants/illegal aliens tt work in the USA lowered the paycheck of entry level jobs held previously by americans by 8%, and the gahmen there grapple with the high cost of managing crime, health care, insurance coverage and other associated costs. the corporation/businesses obviously are the beneficiary of this with better bottom line. many interest groups are trying to control and manage the situation so americans are not squeezed out, especially the middle class.
the diff here is the sg gahmen actually encourage these FT's to come in. there is no discernable benefits of these ppl coming in. most send monies back and have no allegience to the country. the crime and vice they indulge in are uncheck. i drove by from nicoll hwy to sengkang, passing thru' a stretch of geylang road into macpherson and u can see the rot in that area. soliciting and prositution are now done in the open along side major road arteries. pimps with their girls stand on the side, standing in lines in full view of motorists and passerby while trades are being done. nothing is done by the pohlize. everynite, it is the same disgusting scene. i dun recall having seen this before. tt vice spreading now to heartlands are well publicised. but why shld the authority care? they are all pre-occupied with more important things in life, like buiding the sports hub, enthralling tourists with its spunky new arts/cultural image, getting sg into the world maps of life sciences and remaking sg with new tagline.
no one left behind my a$$....
this is a transitional period for them. they will emigrate to the IR later when it opens. -
Many ppl really need gahment help ,but not just listen to them saying "no one left behind". How much they can do? the ppl expect more from them. They really need to do alot more so to justify their pay.
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I really have doubt PM Lee or the govt can ensure no one left behind.U see one chap jumped down MRT track due to poverty.The govt knew after he died.
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Is the Singapore Government unaware of the Singaporeans who have been left behind ?
Surely they must know of a group of Singaporeans who have been left behind, otherwise why was this group included in the Presidential Speech at the recent opening of Parliament.
The problem has been known as early as 2003 and 2004, and 'a study' - by an Associate Professor from the NUS in 2005 - had already highlighted the existence of such a group.
This researched piece had quoted a "leading local newspaper (The Straits Times, 29 Jan 2005), {that} there appears to be a rising number of poor in Singapore with the present economic downturn: reviewing statistics from the Community Development Councils, the number of those needing financial aid has risen from 14,300 in 2001 to 22,500 in 2002 and 31,570 in 2003 and the amount given out has increased from S$14.6m in financial year 2001 to S$27m in 2003.
The number of families on public assistance scheme has similarly increased from 2572 households in Mar 2002 to 2714 households in Dec 2004.
As with Hong Kong, there is no official poverty line in Singapore. There is little data on the number of 'Left Behind Class'.
In one report, the Singapore Department of Statistics has released a figure of about 4 per cent of Singapore's resident population (or 120,000) living at close to the poverty line in 1998 (The Straits Times, 31 May 2000).
In the most recent population census (2000a), 12.6 per cent of households (116,300 households) in Singapore earned less than S$1000 a month (average household income was S$4943 per month). The lowest 10% of households excluding those with no income earners had an average monthly income of S$459 in 2000 (average household size was 3.7) (Singapore Census of Population, 2001).
The unofficial national definition of poverty drawn from the income qualifying criteria in various public assistance schemes seems to cover those surviving on less than S$10 per person per day."
While the Elite Leadership reward themselves with million dollar salaries, there exist in Singapore a class of Singaporeans surviving on less than S$10 per person per day - and this situation exist after more then 45 years of independence and supposed economic progress.
Should we be surprised that there is a larger number in our population that continue to struggle with monthly bills despite a household income of S$3000 and less ? -
Don't need to see so far. At home don't we have a TT Durai with "peanut" salary but still corrupt?Originally posted by equlus84:I agree with wad weiqimun said:
PAP have always used this 3 arguements to justify their high pay:
1) High pay helps to fight corruption
2) PAP ppls being highly educated, can easily find high paid white-collared jobs in the outside world.
3) High salary is needed to retain these PAP ppls on their jobs, and not quitting.
Does high pay really fight corruption? U see all those African countries producing gold and diamonds. These countries are plagued with wars and suffering of famine and drought and their rulers do nothing to improve their standards of living. Their rulers, warlords are rich, thus by PAP logic, this African leaders are not corrupted? -
wow! This is the greatest joke of the year!Originally posted by oxford mushroom:The decision to benchmark Minister's pay was made in the open, debated in Parliament and the media. It was no hush-hush. Singaporeans had many opportunities after that to vote out the ruling party if they objected to the move. THAT DID NOT HAPPEN.
i now begin to wonder if you received any education at all. -
DON'T TALK ABOUT COURT, LAW AND JUSTICE IN SINGAPORE TO ME.Originally posted by siaokao:This is so sad. I have some experience with sg courts. Those kiddo judges (young elites?) know nothing abt life. In my opinion, they dun have the right to judge anyone.
I DON'T EVEN WANNA HEAR ABOUT IT. -
Why ain't the people the ones deciding how they want their VOTING SYSTEM to be?Originally posted by anonymouscoward:Wow, I have forgotten about this case. Oh my do we have failing memories. Somehow, these issues were never highlighted during the last election.
Anyway, nothing would have changed. Given the changing boundaries and all those walkovers.
We should take from Thailand's election. One to one voting and separate voting of MP from political party.
Why are there 'people' playing balls in the COURT using their OWN SET OF RULES
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Debated in the 'parliament'? Wonder what it would mean to say that any issue revolving around my life should be 'debated' within my own family in my house?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:The decision to benchmark Minister's pay was made in the open, debated in Parliament and the media. It was no hush-hush. Singaporeans had many opportunities after that to vote out the ruling party if they objected to the move. THAT DID NOT HAPPEN.
The 'voting sysetm' is another flaw by itself now... Isn't it...? SCIENCE and SCHEMES are just so VERY CLEVER in making things far from being 'obvious' now... Isn't it...?