What are the exact costs of a HDB. Anyone knows???
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Even for huge projects (supposely benefit from economies of scale) .. also not much cheaper..
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/isoa035p.nsf/47c97d62764ca2c2482570b20032bc89/190441676eb8363c482570c7001ab7d4?OpenDocument
Tender For:
PART A: BUILDING WORKS AT QUEENSTOWN REDEVELOPMENT CONTRACT 21 (TOTAL 943 DWELLING UNITS) (STAGE 2) PART B: CONTINGENCY WORKS (STAGE 2)
Tender Closing Date 12/08/2005
Date of Award 28/11/2005
Contract No. D/124/05
Successful Tenderer STRAITS CONSTRUCTION COMPANY (PRIVATE) LIMITED
Tender Sum/Rate $ 88,590,000.00
Remarks (Main Offer)
$88.590 Mil / 943 units = $94K per unit. -
The costs will become apparent now that private companies are allowed to build HDB flats and sell them under the same conditions as HDB. THe first lot has been oversubscribed.
If HDB had been earning lots of money from building public flats, we should see many more private contractors building public flats and selling them at a lower price to gain a market share. In that case, HDB will have to lower prices to compete.
Either way, Singaporeans will gain. -
and another overextension of the construction sector, where payments are usually pro-rated in terms of materials supply and labout costs.
I worry for another collapse of similar magnitude of 1998-1999, where at least 5 public listed contstruction firms were wiped off due to ballooning debts due to hiccups in payment schedules. -
You gotta be kidding if you think THEY will reveal these sort of information to public!?!?Originally posted by Rock^Star:Besides Mah Bow Tan, that is.
Just very puzzled. Because a HDB can virtually wipe out a citizen's retirement nest, save for the Elites And the 2.6% loan interest is lower than banks' but still hefty enough.
Robertteh, Atobe, Oxford Mushroom etc u know??
It's like asking someone what kind and color of underwear he or she wears, and what styles he or she prefers in bed everynight!
We'll NEVER get thr truths from our gov....
forget it...
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Far from it...if the HDB had been earning huge profits building public flats as some allege, private contractors will reap huge profits from thisOriginally posted by LazerLordz:and another overextension of the construction sector, where payments are usually pro-rated in terms of materials supply and labout costs.
I worry for another collapse of similar magnitude of 1998-1999, where at least 5 public listed contstruction firms were wiped off due to ballooning debts due to hiccups in payment schedules. -
Err... the first public housing project by a private developer (Sim Lian) has been priced above HDB prices.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:The costs will become apparent now that private companies are allowed to build HDB flats and sell them under the same conditions as HDB. THe first lot has been oversubscribed.
If HDB had been earning lots of money from building public flats, we should see many more private contractors building public flats and selling them at a lower price to gain a market share. In that case, HDB will have to lower prices to compete.
Either way, Singaporeans will gain.
The oversubscription suggests that HDB's value oriented flats are not desired, and thus.. HDB may need to add more features (resulting in higher prices) to remain competitive. (if it's HDB's desire to continue as a developer) -
More features at higher prices or basic features at lower prices...let the market decide what consumers want and what price they are prepared to pay..Originally posted by yoongf:Err... the first public housing project by a private developer (Sim Lian) has been priced above HDB prices.
The oversubscription suggests that HDB's value oriented flats are not desired, and thus.. HDB may need to add more features (resulting in higher prices) to remain competitive. (if it's HDB's desire to continue as a developer) -
i heard HDB did not declare exactly how much of the HDB flat cost...
Originally posted by yoongf:Even for huge projects (supposely benefit from economies of scale) .. also not much cheaper..
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/isoa035p.nsf/47c97d62764ca2c2482570b20032bc89/190441676eb8363c482570c7001ab7d4?OpenDocument
Tender For:
PART A: BUILDING WORKS AT QUEENSTOWN REDEVELOPMENT CONTRACT 21 (TOTAL 943 DWELLING UNITS) (STAGE 2) PART B: CONTINGENCY WORKS (STAGE 2)
Tender Closing Date 12/08/2005
Date of Award 28/11/2005
Contract No. D/124/05
Successful Tenderer STRAITS CONSTRUCTION COMPANY (PRIVATE) LIMITED
Tender Sum/Rate $ 88,590,000.00
Remarks (Main Offer)
$88.590 Mil / 943 units = $94K per unit. -
Realistically speaking, "how much 1 HDB flat cost" is not a meaningful figure.Originally posted by play_n_play:i heard HDB did not declare exactly how much of the HDB flat cost...
The communual infrastructure like lifts, roads, coridors, risers, stairwells and foundations constitute a large component of a HDB contract sum. It would not be meaningful to seperate the exact cost of 1 flat and say "I don't want to pay for those other infrastructure".
Thus, it's not surprising that HDB do not give detailed breakdowns. -
HDB was a statutory board established under the Housing & Development Act and given the power with taxpayers' monies to acquire lands for public housing.
So under such circumstance, will it be justifiable for HDB to sell its flats under the "Homeownership for the People Scheme" at market price i.e. S$94,000.00 as given in the Sim Lian development.
HDB should reimburse the citizen flat purchasers the costs computed into this price for the land. For example, if Sim Lian has bid the land cost at say $20,000 per unit of flat, people should be given a rebate of S$20,000 for the purchase namely purchaser should rightly be entitled to pay S$74,000 per flat in this example.
Originally in the late 1960s, it sold the low cost housing namely 3-room standard and 3-room improved flat built in Toa Payoh at construction cost at approximately S$6,900 and S$7,800 respectively.
So based on HDB role as low cost housing authority, has HDB the legal right to charge market prices like S$160,000 per unit of 3-room flat for its low cost housing since the late 1970s.
If HDB was to charge the low cost housing at market price, it may be asked: is the HDB not double-charging for lands acquired by them under the Land Acquisition Act since such lands were already owned and paid for by the taxpayers.
By charging HDB flats at market price, HDB on behalf of the government would be making an extra profit on the land over the market price unless the land costs and administrative grants paid to HDB from taxation were refunded to the people as taxpayers.
Similarly all essential public services like medicare and utilities were at one time or another funded by tax monies. So when government decided to corporatise such services into various GLCs like Singapore Power or Power Supply, will it be legal for SP or PS to charge the consumer taxpayers once more for infrastructures and networks or land costs which no doubt have been previously paid by the public.
Should the government continue to charge the citizens in such tax-and-recover and corporatise to rid itself of burdens or duties while accumulating the tax monies into surpluses from which to claim credit and paying themselves the highest salaries and bonuses and lifelong benefits. -
Stamp fees $ 3202.0
Conveyancing fees $ 171.15
Add Fees payable
Lease in-escrow stamp/regn fees
Mortgage stamp fees
Mortgage in-escrow stamp/regn fees
Survey fees
$ 42.3
$ 502.0
$ 48.3
$ 393.75
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The fact is that the HDB market is a false one. Held up by regulations that forces certain public to purchase only from resale market.
Policies like preventing singles below 35 to own their own unit (in foreign country, it is consider a shame to be still living with your parents if you're 30), prevent families with above $8000 from buying directly from HDB and preventing private property owners from owning HDBs.
HDB argues that the rules are in place to prevent speculation of flats. In the first place, people speculate because there is a false market that a certain group of people must buy from. A steady demand with no other alternatives and huge profits to be made. Of course you attract speculations. So you have one lousy policy that creates a problem and you create more lousy policies to plug the problems created by the earlier. Our world class govt.
If the govt remove those rules, it would mean that everyone would be entitled to buy a flat from HDB directly. The resale market would collapse due to lack of demand and prices will fall. Following that, people will not speculate in HDB because the demands/profits are not there. Benefits are;
1) Empty new flats would be cleared
2) Cheaper housing for owners, means more savings for retirement
3) No more speculation
4) No more unfair rulings
Then you would see true market value of HDB.
Look at 3 rooms HDB earlier. Before HDB remove the ruling that singles can only buy 3 rooms, they are going for over 200K per unit (some as expensive as a 4 room unit in mature estate). When the ruling was removed, singles began buying larger units and the price is now balanced. -
What?Originally posted by anonymouscoward:. So you have one lousy policy that creates a problem and you create more lousy policies to plug the problems created by the earlier. Our world class govt.
They are paid to solve problems.
Not create more. -
The lofty goals of the early days of self-government in which it saw itself as being responsible to resolve the challenges posed by the poor in Singapore, it organised itself to "ensure economic growth for employment" and assumed "a major role in determining the production and consumption of housing that is to provide affordable and inclusive housing to the lowest income residents".
Since the 1960s, land for development was continuously acquired from squatters and private land owners - even from those with long term or free hold lease - and given BELOW MARKET RATE compensation.
Public Housing in the early 1960s had met with the social and political objectives of providing cheap public housing to accomodate the 'rootless' and 'homeless' Singapore population - still having a 'migrant mentality'.
Selling Prices of those early built HDB 2, 3 and 4-Rooms Units built in the 1960s reflected close to their construction costs; and one could probably input that at least 3 to 5 per cent margin were added for cost of public funds used, and another 5 to 10 per cent margin to cover administrative costs.
Can we ever figure how much is the cost of public housing ?
Yes, to a certain degree, if we look at the Government Gazette that prints out the results of public tenders for the various phases of contracted works to complete a township, or a block of flats.
This will still require a meticulous formula to apportion costs from the various public tender prices that have been gazetted.
Unfortunately, no one from the NUS has actually make any attempt to publish such research efforts, or if any had been done - it will probably be hushed to prevent any controversial outcry at the clear and undeniable truth.
Based on actual events that had transpired, somehow and some timelines along the road towards progress and wealth creation during the 1980s to 1990s, Public Policies seems to have taken a different direction with a new set of factors to be considered.
During this period, after twenty years of successful public housing program, it seems that more Singaporean HDB Dwellers were upgrading, and buying privately developed condominiums built with the same 99 year lease.
These HDB 'Upgraders' were able to make a neat profit with the resale of their HDB units in some 'choice townships' with mature amenities and social infrastructure, and had the easy opportunity to increase their cash holdings through resale.
It will seem that the Government realised the revenue making potential and the resourcefulness of Singaporeans, and from the early 1980s, Public Housing prices began an upward trend despite the massive economies of scale that the HDB had in the infrastructure and resources that it created to meet its building program.
An extract of the research papers from the Department of Real Estate, NUS reads as follows:
"In Singapore, the public resale housing market is an active second-hand housing market, whereby previously subsidised new public housing units were being transacted at market prices. In contrast to the private housing price determinants that have been identified in the international literature, the prices of public resale housing in Singapore are largely determined by public policies rather than by economic variables. This paper provides some empirical evidence on how and to what degree public housing policies affected the price dynamics of public resale housing in Singapore during the 1990s. The findings have additional implications of the wider consequences of public policies on the prices of private housing units."
From the trends observed over the years, the Singapore Government takes the view that if the Private Sector makes money from any item that it has created, the Government is entitled to take an immediate cut of the profit and not wait till the end of the transaction when annual tax is collected.
This can be seen from the HDB resale policy, where the HDB demands that a percentage of the sales price be returned to HDB if the concluded sales price is above HDB valuation.
With large scale private projects, the Government will impose Development Charge on the Private Developers, as they are seen to make hefty profit from the piece of vacant land on which the projects are built on - refusing to realise that the profit will depend on the continuing favorable market conditions at the end of the construction.
Are HDB prices today based on costs, on based on the benchmark of similar private developments, and from the thresh-hold of pain that Singaporeans can bear ?
Is it any surprise that we have a new problem created by the greedy public policies, which leaves the retired Singaporeans to be 'asset rich, but cash poor' ?