Can we trust leader who says GST will be used to close gaps?
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Maybe we donate too much la.
Now ppl think we're rich enough to sustain the hike.
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We lost 3 in a blooper, and that deficit needs to be made up.Originally posted by dragg:i dont believe it one bit.
arent our reserves of more than US$100 billion enough to close the gaps?
i really dont see the need to increase the gst!!!
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more pple will jump off the mrt track.Originally posted by darknessfall:sigh.....post election nightmare....Tpt hike increase, GST, whats next? -
Given the way the gov has acted in the past, l predict the following implementation:Originally posted by kheldorin:The rationale is that the rich spend more so they get taxed more due to GST. Plus the PM mentioned measures to offset this GST increase for the poor. The exact implementation will be explained soon.
To me, it's not a matter of whether I trust the government to use this to help the poor. I wanna see the exact full implementation and then I'll analyse and decide whether the plan sucks or not. Shouting "Guilty!" relying purely on gut instinct, emotional feelings such as trust, without examining the full facts of the case is lame.
1) First, they tell you the increase is 2%. They expect everyone to make noise and feel unhappy for some time.
2) After sometime when the initial unhappiness dies down a little, they'll increase to 6% first and announce packages to help the poor cope to soften the impact of the news. Most people would not have any more objections by then.
3) Next, they'll increase from 6% to 7% after some time when people have got themselves used to the increase GST. This way there will not be so much hooha.
By the time the next election approaches, they'll collect enough dough to throw out some goodies to sweeten the ground.
There's only 1 way that the GST is going and that's up, up up!
Please remember this terrible experience when the time comes again to cast your votes. -
Another reason to migrate.
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GST will be used to close our gap.. GAP! Yes, as in shut your gap you whiney singaporeans.
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Close the gap between rich n poor by increase GST?Hoho,this is the most ridiculous bullsh!t i have heard.If a politician want to close gap between rich n poor,they should tax more heavily on the rich,not increase GST.
Becoz GST apply on all the goods n services that you pay for,no matter whether u are rich or poor,you still need to buy nesscessity items in your daily life.Thus,increase GST has totally no affect on the rich,but the poor will have to pay even more for it.So the gap between rich n poor will even widened,not closer.
There are 2 reasons why those PAP leaders say increase GST can close gap,one is they are liar,another reason is they are still a liar.They will leave a very bad name even after they die,if that is what they want.
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Yes, I also don't believe the lizard's words.Originally posted by dragg:i dont believe it one bit.
arent our reserves of more than US$100 billion enough to close the gaps?
i really dont see the need to increase the gst!!!
I think he is more ruthless than the old man.
Can we trust a person who tells us openly that he would have to
think of how to "FIX THE OPPOSITION AND BUY VOTERS' VOTES" if there
are more than 3 opposition ampees in the palourmen?
Can we trust a person who tells us that the money he distributed
to us during the GE is a Progress Package, when actually it was a
Regress Package?
Can we trust a person who tells us that he wants a more open
society but at the same time tries to amend and expand the criminal laws
to restrict and deter further the already restrictive freedom of speech?
Can we trust a person who tells us that the Temasick-Sin-corpse deal
was purely on business decision without any govt interference but at
the same time trying desperately to get the PM of Siam to help solve the problem?
Can we trust a person who tells us that he does not interfere with
decisions being made by Temasick Ho-ding regarding foreign investments,
when he is the husband of the CEO of Temasick Holding and also the
Head of the Finance Mini-study that owns 100% of Temasick Ho-ding?
Husband and wife don't discuss things at home during dinner or while in
bed? Which small boy would believe that?
Those are but only a few examples. -
Btw, will the 2% increase in gst affect beer? ciggarettes? hawker food?
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It is immensely clear that the Government Treasury is bloated with the hard earned savings from Singaporeans who labor in this captive economy.
The salary that Singaporeans earned are taxed and spent on every economic service and consumption that are all provided by Government Linked Companies, and there are very few 100% PRIVATE ALTERNATIVES that can compete with the GLCs.
The tentacles of the Government exist at every point and level of the economy to provide Singaporeans with food, transport, education, medical, news prints and broadcast media, telecommunications, travel, and utilities.
After taking all that it can in the services provided to Singaporeans, the Government will take more from the remaining savings of Singaporeans by direct and indirect taxes through - income tax, COE, PARF, Road Tax, ERP, GST, stamp duties, licences, permits, foreign labor tax, extra-ordinary taxes on ciigarettes and luxury items.
Despite a fattening Treasury, and the refusal of the Government to be more transparent in the manner in which the GIC and Temasek are funded, and in the reporting of their investments - it is clearly outrageous that the Government should consider another increase of 2% to the existing 5% GST.
Should Singaporeans not be concerned that this 2% increase in GST is being made so soon after the disaster with the amount of monies lost by the various GLCs that are known to receive surplusses from the Reserves ?
This increase comes too close to the disastrous reduction in value to the S$3 BILLION takeover of SHIN CORP - in which no one dare to speak of it during the Parliamentary debate.
POSB was available for DBS to takeover and plug its losses when DBS had to lose 75% of the money injected into taking over the Thai Danu Bank PLUS the stupendous discovery of an unknown and hidden losses of over US$400Million in bad debts - almost one over year after the takeover.
This time around, in December 2005, Temasek announced it was acquiring Shin Corp for US$1.7 BILLION (S$3 BILLION), with the deal completed by April 2006; and by July 2006 the share value had seen the evaporation of US$1.6 BILLION, AND with its Shin Corp subsidiary - iTV - having to pay a fine of US$1.99 BILLION to the Central Administration Court on 9 May 2006. (See Note 1 Below).
This time around, with the stupendous loss from the S$3 BILLION thrown into SHIN CORP, PLUS the unreported fine of US$1.99 BILLION in penalty - it is too obvious for Temasek to cover a large bleeding wound by absorbing some other cash-rich GLC that it does not presently control.
With a string of losses that began with Suzhou, surely the Singapore Reserves must be affected, and need new cash injection by the Singaporean Slaves ?
The string of well known disasters over the recent five years will include:
SingTel losses with the Australian OPTUS venture after taking it over for a sum of US$8.4 BILLION;
DBS had to take a $700Million writedown on its Hong Kong Dao Heng Bank bought for US$5.4 BILLION in 2001;
Temasek loss of $336 Million in 2004 and another $278 Million in 2005 in its investment in its 62% stake in Global Crossing, and the continued loss of S$1BILLION over 10 years from the semi-conductor operation at Chartered Industry;
Temasek's acquisition of the Bank of China for US$2.5 BILLION and the Korean Exchange Bank for US$9 BILLION have all been made without any accounting to any Singaporean Oversight Committee, and the performance of these investments remains questionable;
Can there be any other better reason to increase 2% to the current 5% GST ?
In all the 45 over years of independence, has this Ruling Party ever considered the down-trodden and provide free meals - except for the sharks fin soup to entice the voters, which is now abandoned ?
Even with the GST at 7%, the poor will still have to pay-back for the attention given; as this Government is well know to give with one hand and take back with two hands.
If the Government is serious about helping the poorer sections of Singapore, the amount that Temasek and all GLCs have lost in their overseas ventures would have fed the poorer Singaporeans over the next 100 YEARS.
Note 1
Transnational Capital : a Political economy study on the Shin - Temasek Deal
- Institute of Asian Studies, Chulalongkorn University -
singapore govt should make economics a compulsory subject for all singaporeans.
that would give singaporeans a better understanding of economics and encourage more sensible argument rather then emotional outburst.
just a small over simplify example:
if you earn 2000 a month, assuming you spend all on basic food and clothing, 2 percent GST increase amounts to an additional 40 dollars in GST tax.
if you earn 50,000 a month, assuming you also spend all on luxury goods like new watches, high fashion clothes and jewellery, 2 percent GST increase amount to an additional 1000 dollar increase in tax.
further assuming that there are no additional personal income tax changes this year....
guess who is paying a higher tax? the ordinary folks with a 2000 pay packet per month... or the rich folks after a 2 percent hike in GST?
after that... factor in the govt grants and nets they are dishing out to the people of singapore....
lets assume its 100 dollars per person... per year.
the ordinary folks gets back 100 dollar after paying the whole year 480 dollars of additional GST tax... a rebate of close to 20 percent.
the rich folks also gets 100 dollar after paying a massive 12,000 dollar of additional GST tax... a rebate of close to 0.8 percent.
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For the "$2000 wage earner", this entire amount will probably be needed to be spent on basic food and clothing PLUS child support, education, medical, transport, utilities, mortgages and loans - and every cent will count.Originally posted by tripwire:singapore govt should make economics a compulsory subject for all singaporeans.
that would give singaporeans a better understanding of economics and encourage more sensible argument rather then emotional outburst.
just a small over simplify example:
if you earn 2000 a month, assuming you spend all on basic food and clothing, 2 percent GST increase amounts to an additional 40 dollars in GST tax.
if you earn 50,000 a month, assuming you also spend all on luxury goods like new watches, high fashion clothes and jewellery, 2 percent GST increase amount to an additional 1000 dollar increase in tax.
further assuming that there are no additional personal income tax changes this year....
guess who is paying a higher tax? the ordinary folks with a 2000 pay packet per month... or the rich folks after a 2 percent hike in GST?
after that... factor in the govt grants and nets they are dishing out to the people of singapore....
lets assume its 100 dollars per person... per year.
the ordinary folks gets back 100 dollar after paying the whole year 480 dollars of additional GST tax... a rebate of close to 20 percent.
the rich folks also gets 100 dollar after paying a massive 12,000 dollar of additional GST tax... a rebate of close to 0.8 percent. 
At the most extreme, those earning $50,000 will probably spend SEVEN times of the amount that the "$2000 wage earner" spent on the same essentials - and will still have $36,000 loose change for luxuries.
Does anyone need economics to find out that 0.8 percent rebate to the $50,000 earner will be small 'peanuts' when they have larger ones still remaining in their pockets ? -
Appreciate your analysis Tripwire but I beg to differ. I believe one should look at the relative scale rather than the abosolute amounts when considering the impact of GST (and also the decrease of income tax which I will highlight below).Originally posted by tripwire:singapore govt should make economics a compulsory subject for all singaporeans.
that would give singaporeans a better understanding of economics and encourage more sensible argument rather then emotional outburst.
just a small over simplify example:
if you earn 2000 a month, assuming you spend all on basic food and clothing, 2 percent GST increase amounts to an additional 40 dollars in GST tax.
if you earn 50,000 a month, assuming you also spend all on luxury goods like new watches, high fashion clothes and jewellery, 2 percent GST increase amount to an additional 1000 dollar increase in tax.
further assuming that there are no additional personal income tax changes this year....
guess who is paying a higher tax? the ordinary folks with a 2000 pay packet per month... or the rich folks after a 2 percent hike in GST?
after that... factor in the govt grants and nets they are dishing out to the people of singapore....
lets assume its 100 dollars per person... per year.
the ordinary folks gets back 100 dollar after paying the whole year 480 dollars of additional GST tax... a rebate of close to 20 percent.
the rich folks also gets 100 dollar after paying a massive 12,000 dollar of additional GST tax... a rebate of close to 0.8 percent.
It was mentioned that the GST increase comes at a time when we are trying to attract more FT. In order to attract them, we need to lower our Income Tax. When Income Tax is lower, Gov thus need to earn back the loss through an increase in GST - aka the now 5% to 7%
If you are to look at the trend of the personal tax rates over the years, it very much seems like robbing the POOR to pay the RICH!
Look at :
http://www.iras.gov.sg/ESVPortal/iit/iit-se-a1.1.15+tax+rates+for+resident+individuals.asp
The super rich (those earning $320,000 or more a year) gets back much more money from personal income tax rate reduction than the averagg folk.
In 2005, the super rich pays $47,000 on the first $320k they earned while in 2007, they will be only be paying $42,700 - A discount of whooping $4,300!
Contrast that with the average sinkapoorean who either earns:
1) below 20k a year
2) say 30k a year
In case of 1) he has not have any savings at all from 2005 to 2007 since his tax rate is already zero.
In case of 2), he only saves a pitiful $50!
On a relative scale, who gets to save more on the Income Tax reduction?
The average sinkapoorean: 50/30,000 = 0.17% of 30,000
The Super Rich : 4,300/320,000 = 1.3% of 320,000
Note its Zero point One Seven % for the average sinkapoorean and its One point Three % for the Super Rich -
yes.Originally posted by MrDeeJay:100billion = 100,000,000,000 right? -
a company can register for gst only if the total revenue per year is in excess of 1 million.Originally posted by chrisbenoit:Btw, will the 2% increase in gst affect beer? ciggarettes? hawker food?
you only pay gst to the seller if he displays a gst license. -
haaa.. you made my day with your analysis. Did you fail economics? You probably learn something but it seems like you understand nothing at all.Originally posted by tripwire:singapore govt should make economics a compulsory subject for all singaporeans.
that would give singaporeans a better understanding of economics and encourage more sensible argument rather then emotional outburst.
just a small over simplify example:
if you earn 2000 a month, assuming you spend all on basic food and clothing, 2 percent GST increase amounts to an additional 40 dollars in GST tax.
if you earn 50,000 a month, assuming you also spend all on luxury goods like new watches, high fashion clothes and jewellery, 2 percent GST increase amount to an additional 1000 dollar increase in tax.
further assuming that there are no additional personal income tax changes this year....
guess who is paying a higher tax? the ordinary folks with a 2000 pay packet per month... or the rich folks after a 2 percent hike in GST?
after that... factor in the govt grants and nets they are dishing out to the people of singapore....
lets assume its 100 dollars per person... per year.
the ordinary folks gets back 100 dollar after paying the whole year 480 dollars of additional GST tax... a rebate of close to 20 percent.
the rich folks also gets 100 dollar after paying a massive 12,000 dollar of additional GST tax... a rebate of close to 0.8 percent. -
why don't you do the sums over again with the "net" amount the ordinary folks have to pay in % of net income compared to that for the rich and see what that leads toOriginally posted by tripwire:singapore govt should make economics a compulsory subject for all singaporeans.
that would give singaporeans a better understanding of economics and encourage more sensible argument rather then emotional outburst.
just a small over simplify example:
if you earn 2000 a month, assuming you spend all on basic food and clothing, 2 percent GST increase amounts to an additional 40 dollars in GST tax.
if you earn 50,000 a month, assuming you also spend all on luxury goods like new watches, high fashion clothes and jewellery, 2 percent GST increase amount to an additional 1000 dollar increase in tax.
further assuming that there are no additional personal income tax changes this year....
guess who is paying a higher tax? the ordinary folks with a 2000 pay packet per month... or the rich folks after a 2 percent hike in GST?
after that... factor in the govt grants and nets they are dishing out to the people of singapore....
lets assume its 100 dollars per person... per year.
the ordinary folks gets back 100 dollar after paying the whole year 480 dollars of additional GST tax... a rebate of close to 20 percent.
the rich folks also gets 100 dollar after paying a massive 12,000 dollar of additional GST tax... a rebate of close to 0.8 percent. -
lure FT faster and cheaper mah...Originally posted by BenBenDeZhu:I see a change in their policy. It seems that they have given up on asking us to make more babies and concentrate on luring FT. 
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but those small hawkers or wadever oso will say because gst increase they oso muz increase de mah.Originally posted by dragg:a company can register for gst only if the total revenue per year is in excess of 1 million.
you only pay gst to the seller if he displays a gst license. -
the consumers are always the one to absorb all increases.Originally posted by Ito_^:but those small hawkers or wadever oso will say because gst increase they oso muz increase de mah.
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I wonder those who plan or on the way to have baby will think.
Talking about average income of $45k per year per person, a average family can only have 2 kids and support their parents at the same time. The rich one are not making enough babies and yet gahment said this GST thing can reduce gap. There is no different of benefit of ppl who earn less, as the ERS we get are just a few hundred different from the one who stay in landed.
Gahment can't feel the direct impact on the younger generation who just start up a family, those who dun have much support from parent.
Their plan are not working well right now, yet FT is still their best solution. -
The whole cycle consist of giving goodies, garnish result & after all is done, take back double.
Got to get used to it or life will be miserable. In fact already quite close to miserable. Think its time to be quitter. 5 years is quite a long wait. -
Rubbish.... There are ways they can help the poor without increasing GST that will see the money going into the poor pockets.
1. Abolish the $2 fees for Bank Account under $500
2. Abolish double taxation eg. GST on water-borne tax
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everything also rises.. my blood pressure also rises..
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This why I call them the Blood Thirst Papvampires!!!Originally posted by robertteh:Great post !!! Why Li Ka Shing did not tax the people by taking monies from them. He did it by marketing his own skills and abilities through the market place in a fair deal.
Yet he has decided to give back 75% of his wealth to charity? Because he realizes that people have supported him and he has made monies from them and he cannot finish using all his monies in his lifetime no matter how he tries.
Why do Bill Gate and Warren Buffet decide to donate a great part of their wealth to good causes like researches for new cures probably for the same reason. Again they also realize that he cannot use up all his monies for his physical enjoyment in his lifetime.
Compare these people with our ministers and many MPs and many more in GLCs who have not yet done as much in creating jobs or restructuring the economy talked about for years but who have been paid millions and large bonuses without answering for bottom line for doing bill collection jobs, are they just people who are given opportunities to serve the country and prove their worth.
Can they measure up to people like Li Ka Shing and Bill Gates and Warren Buffet.
Think of the fellow citizens who are crying out loud for their help because something has gone wrong with the economy.
For many years the economy is in a doldrum so many of them have become unemployed or unemployable.
Without them giving you the opportunity to serve them do you think you elites will be earning your millions and enjoy your glories.
So spend time to ponder over this - if these citizens who gave you many years of opportunities to perch on high pedestals and claim leadership talents would you let them down and continue to slam another fee increases or GST on them which might force them to jump the MRT track.
Do you have the heart to bear their silent cries night after nights and still force them down the MRT track.
Hardly heard any of their elites or ministoodes donate $$$ to charities.