Can we trust leader who says GST will be used to close gaps?
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Our politicians want to act smart n become businessman,thats why they keep losing money in foreign investment.If they do know so much about investment n doing business,then why the hell do they still need to work as a politicians,might as well become a businessman.
It is immensely clear that the Government Treasury is bloated with the hard earned savings from Singaporeans who labor in this captive economy.
The salary that Singaporeans earned are taxed and spent on every economic service and consumption that are all provided by Government Linked Companies, and there are very few [b]100% PRIVATE ALTERNATIVES that can compete with the GLCs.
The tentacles of the Government exist at every point and level of the economy to provide Singaporeans with food, transport, education, medical, news prints and broadcast media, telecommunications, travel, and utilities.
After taking all that it can in the services provided to Singaporeans, the Government will take more from the remaining savings of Singaporeans by direct and indirect taxes through - income tax, COE, PARF, Road Tax, ERP, GST, stamp duties, licences, permits, foreign labor tax, extra-ordinary taxes on ciigarettes and luxury items.
Despite a fattening Treasury, and the refusal of the Government to be more transparent in the manner in which the GIC and Temasek are funded, and in the reporting of their investments - it is clearly outrageous that the Government should consider another increase of 2% to the existing 5% GST.
Should Singaporeans not be concerned that this 2% increase in GST is being made so soon after the disaster with the amount of monies lost by the various GLCs that are known to receive surplusses from the Reserves ?
This increase comes too close to the disastrous reduction in value to the S$3 BILLION takeover of SHIN CORP - in which no one dare to speak of it during the Parliamentary debate.
POSB was available for DBS to takeover and plug its losses when DBS had to lose 75% of the money injected into taking over the Thai Danu Bank PLUS the stupendous discovery of an unknown and hidden losses of over US$400Million in bad debts - almost one over year after the takeover.
This time around, in December 2005, Temasek announced it was acquiring Shin Corp for US$1.7 BILLION (S$3 BILLION), with the deal completed by April 2006; and by July 2006 the share value had seen the evaporation of US$1.6 BILLION, AND with its Shin Corp subsidiary - iTV - having to pay a fine of US$1.99 BILLION to the Central Administration Court on 9 May 2006. (See Note 1 Below).
This time around, with the stupendous loss from the S$3 BILLION thrown into SHIN CORP, PLUS the unreported fine of US$1.99 BILLION in penalty - it is too obvious for Temasek to cover a large bleeding wound by absorbing some other cash-rich GLC that it does not presently control.
With a string of losses that began with Suzhou, surely the Singapore Reserves must be affected, and need new cash injection by the Singaporean Slaves ?
The string of well known disasters over the recent five years will include:
SingTel losses with the Australian OPTUS venture after taking it over for a sum of US$8.4 BILLION;
DBS had to take a $700Million writedown on its Hong Kong Dao Heng Bank bought for US$5.4 BILLION in 2001;
Temasek loss of $336 Million in 2004 and another $278 Million in 2005 in its investment in its 62% stake in Global Crossing, and the continued loss of S$1BILLION over 10 years from the semi-conductor operation at Chartered Industry;
Temasek's acquisition of the Bank of China for US$2.5 BILLION and the Korean Exchange Bank for US$9 BILLION have all been made without any accounting to any Singaporean Oversight Committee, and the performance of these investments remains questionable;
Can there be any other better reason to increase 2% to the current 5% GST ?
In all the 45 over years of independence, has this Ruling Party ever considered the down-trodden and provide free meals - except for the sharks fin soup to entice the voters, which is now abandoned ?
Even with the GST at 7%, the poor will still have to pay-back for the attention given; as this Government is well know to give with one hand and take back with two hands.
If the Government is serious about helping the poorer sections of Singapore, the amount that Temasek and all GLCs have lost in their overseas ventures would have fed the poorer Singaporeans over the next 100 YEARS.
Note 1
Transnational Capital : a Political economy study on the Shin - Temasek Deal
- Institute of Asian Studies, Chulalongkorn University
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Above all the losses that GLC incurred on foreign investment,there is also Goh Chok Tong lent billions of dollars to Indonesia government during the economic crisis.And the Indonesian government havent pay back us the money yet.
P.S.I know Lou Goh dont like ppl to talk about it,but........Who give a damn about that dog!!!!!
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Once again.. thank you everyone for voting PAP. You have presented a mandate!
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Hmm. come to think of it..
we haven't been presented statistics or any planning.
1) how many ppl exactly are below poverty line?
2) what constitute poverty line?
3) what are the government measures to help them?
4) what are the cost of funding them?
5) Why is gst the only justified tax to help them?
6) Isn't the projected IR going to create a whole lot more revenue?
actually there are still many more unanswered questions...
but whatever it is.. we the ppl who vote will still remain voiceless. -
If you disagree with the rise in GST please go to http://www.gsthike.com/index.php and sign the petition. Thank You!
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The gahment keep sucking $$ out of us...and we have no $$ to have babies.
I wonder if it ever occur to them that they are killing off their own $$$ source.
Talking abt FTs....th gahment thinks these FT are so stoopid to come and let them suck their $$$$? No, these FTs will come..and then earn or gain experience enough and LEAVE!!!
I have a couple of FT friends....who commented that why should they stay when the gahment simply refuses to take care of their own people.....that speaks volume isnt it.. -
(As posted to onlinepetition on 15.11.06)Originally posted by pandableh:If you disagree with the rise in GST please go to http://www.gsthike.com/index.php and sign the petition. Thank You!
The answer is no, no, no because:-
Firstly citizens are still finding difficulty in meeting rising costs.
Secondly, after 41 years of tax-and-recover government people now expect their tax surpluses to be used to meet citizens' contingent needs during crises.
Thirdly there should be no further salary and bonus increments to ministers or civil servants.
Fourthly, government should not invest their surpluses in shin corp or Souzhou and should use them to offset rising costs.
Fifthly, government should not drive up costs of living or compete against citizens for business. -
walau, only 1229 people out of 4 million.
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No point putting up a petition when 66 out of 100 bro n sis support them, u first day noe them issit. 1 yr later everybody get use to it, 4 yrs later still support them, 4 1/2 later come back here put up another petition, u not sian meh? U cannot beat them join them, if u r smart then become their elite.
The poor will still complaint complaint till the cow come home. -
to TS
The time this gov is elected into the gov, indicated that we trusted them. So why ask now ??
Their actions are and will always be correct, unless someone really dare to challange them and will not go bankrupt -
In Sgp it is Gahman by the rich for the rich. So what if the poor is the majority? They have no voice, no power, no nothing. If they leave, they will be replaced by FTs. Suckers in their own country.
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Sgporeans should just let PAP fark them, say Thank You and then shut the fark up. Live in reality man... there is fark-off you can do about it.
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Our political system is supposed to be governed by the constitution. Yet constitution may not be fully spelt out to divide the tasks and responsibilities clearly among ministers, between cabinet and PM and between ministers and parliament.Originally posted by T.Ryousuke:No point putting up a petition when 66 out of 100 bro n sis support them, u first day noe them issit. 1 yr later everybody get use to it, 4 yrs later still support them, 4 1/2 later come back here put up another petition, u not sian meh? U cannot beat them join them, if u r smart then become their elite.
The poor will still complaint complaint till the cow come home.
Because of such grey areas, PM or cabinet have retained overriding power due to grey areas or silence in the Constitution.
But one thing is for certain - PM and cabinet lack the authority to decide on incurring expenditures and are required to put up proposals for approval by parliament.
Certain decisions may already be delegated as administrative task but for certain other decisions are not yet delegated clearly to PM or cabinet who merely assume them because of autocracy.
So our MPs can raise such issues where decisions are made by PM and cabinet by assumption which are not well documented or established in the constitution and ask for proposals to be put up accountably for approval of parliament.
I don't see why MPs should acquiesce in all PM and cabinet's decisions and accept all their dministrative decisions made by them where they are not constitutionally established or delegated by acts of parliament. This applies to implementation as well as formulation of policies and recommendations of proposals.
In this way MPs will then be able to restore their roles as representatives of the people and not be seen as compliant yesmen throughout.
MPs have the constitutional right to represent the people and play such role. It is up to them now to ask for restoration of their rights if they want to solve our many problems caused by autocracy of the past -
How many MP do that to the extent to object such implementation ?Originally posted by robertteh:MPs have the constitutional right to represent the people and play such role. It is up to them now to ask for restoration of their rights if they want to solve our many problems caused by autocracy of the past. -
I cannot remember any MP touching on this topic of division of roles and duties among ministers to the extent that some ministers like MM and SM may assume all the authorities by default.Originally posted by T.Ryousuke:How many MP do that to the extent to object such implementation ? -
clos their "gaps" perhaps?Originally posted by robertteh:The recent events in parliament has proven one undeniable fact with human nature - no matter how talented a person is almost always affected by power, greed, hypocrisy and self-centredness.
So soon after the Asian Financial crisis leaders have forgotten that self-centredness was found to be the root cause of all the wrong doings and malpractices as exposed by the crisis. All the pretences and hypocrisy about the virtue of Asian societies due to practice of Asian or Family values were merely shams cooked up to assume leaders' legitimacy or outward success.
Again no matter how talented is an individual, he was put to the test during the recent last two recession when they were seen to be denying problems and responsibilities for unemployments or loss of economic competitiveness.
So history has proven that at the end it will be self-centredness which eventually cause downfalls of empires.
Now the same helpless people who could not solve problems suddenly try to ride on a wave of world recovery and claim credit for every thing and try to squeeze more taxes for self-centredness and hypocrisy. There is no sign that surpluses or taxes if collected will be put to good use but everything is up to them like the estate upgrading decisions. Judging from past experiences of surpluses being splashed on Souzhou or seven wonders how to trust leaders that increased GST this time will really go towards helping the people to tie over people in crisis.
If the leaders do not keep increasing rentals through creative accounting next year citizens will be more than grateful already. So forget about more promises like helping the people to overcome problems.
Citizens will be wise in expecting more fee increases and salary increases for ministers after this round of GST increases. Look at their promises, and the way various schemes are actually implemented one has practically be obliged to vote the MPs before one can get any assistance. Otherwise Mr. Tan would not have jumped the MRT track on being told that "sorry your family income exceeds the limit so we could not help you".
Many people jumped the MRT tracks not because of the lack of efforts or choosiness about jobs but because of uncaring government who keeps taxing and recovering all costs against them until they have to jump.
Today, bus fares and utilities in a lower income family can take up 40-60% of the take home pay. How can the leaders keep one eye closed on such fee increases which only resulted in more million-dollar pays and 6-month bonuses and share options to directors of public transport companies who are actually doing nothing much except in sitting pretty to collect fees.
By all these real-life experienes all can see that leaders cannot be trusted to be free from corruption and self-centredness. They should be checked by a more objective and powerful Ombudsman and be continuously subjected to accountability or due process.
After 41 years, sad to say one thing is proven - leadership and talent is a make-belief concept or theory. Singapore today has witnessed leadership as consisting of only showmanship, hypocrisy, greed and self-interest.
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In Ireland, it's 0% for food and essentials, 13.50% for most services and 21% for luxuries.
Now, isn't that the way to go with this sort of taxes if "helping the poor" is to be believed?
However, who would suffer most from the luxury tax? That's the 2% question! -
Originally posted by Atobe:
i can understand your anxiety and concern with regards to your needs... however.. i am merely responding to the title of the thread... which is " can GST be used to close gaps in income" from an economic POV.
For the "$2000 wage earner", this entire amount will probably be needed to be spent on basic food and clothing [b]PLUS child support, education, medical, transport, utilities, mortgages and loans - and every cent will count.
At the most extreme, those earning $50,000 will probably spend SEVEN times of the amount that the "$2000 wage earner" spent on the same essentials - and will still have $36,000 loose change for luxuries.
Does anyone need economics to find out that 0.8 percent rebate to the $50,000 earner will be small 'peanuts' when they have larger ones still remaining in their pockets ?
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unfortunately.....income gap is a reality of modern capitalist society... we cant erase it... china tried.. guess where that brought them.
as to those who belong to the have nots.. like me...
i cannot answer why you or me, am not born with a silver spoon, maybe GOD can... but i cant.
nor can i answer why your father isnt the PM of singapore (maybe your father can answer that) or why is your monthly pay standing at $2000 dollars... something that only you can answer yourself...
perhaps you can take in the solace that i earn less then $2000 per month... and i got big family to take care of...
and unlike some minister whose OTHER CAR is the MRT.... my OTHER car is my two leg... other then the MRT. -
if so....i am glad to fail my economics like our PM, finance minister and 80+ elites.... its a great honor to be group with the super salary class... even though i draw a clerks pay.Originally posted by anonymouscoward:haaa.. you made my day with your analysis. Did you fail economics? You probably learn something but it seems like you understand nothing at all. -
i'll like 2 say 'THANK YOU' 2 e 66.6%..
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please do not think like that.... singaporeans ... irreguardless rich or poor are still human being and are entitled to the same rights and protection under the singapore laws as well as equal treatment...Originally posted by hisoka:why don't you do the sums over again with the "net" amount the ordinary folks have to pay in % of net income compared to that for the rich and see what that leads to
just because they are rich... dont mean they deserved to be "slaughtered" for more taxes....
to think like that... we would be no better then the malaysian malay govt whose only reason for tramping on malaysian chinese was simply based on the excuse that the malaysian chinese are rich and successful...
please.. lets not be like them... and respect all human being... rich or poor...
i am sure... that the govt of singapore understands the income gap... such gap is unavoidable, the govt can narrow it... but its a delicate balancing act... -
wat to do... our girls not pumping hard enough.. or is that the fault of our guys...Originally posted by Xcert:lure FT faster and cheaper mah... 
with population plunging like a rock... we are looking at economic stagnation as well as possible economic implosion in about 20 years...
to be honest... there is NO Foreign talent (maybe a mere handful)... you think majority (99%) of those foreigners are really talent? of course not....
you think the govt dont know?? ...
the bottom line is numbers.....
just ask yourself....what happens to a shopping center with no customer? they close shop.... likewise... what happens to a city with low population? they disappear from the world map.
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The reason given for the GST hike is like mee siam mai hum.
After hearing it, you go huh? -
its a cycle....Originally posted by Ito_^:but those small hawkers or wadever oso will say because gst increase they oso muz increase de mah.
everyone in the economy plays two role... the seller and the buyer...
the hawker pays higher price for his supplies from his supplier... his supplier goes to lunch at the hawker center.. and viola... the price of the hawker food went up.
the supplier ask the hawker why he raise the price...
the hawker ask the supplier why he raise his price.... -
okay ... last post for the night...
taxes... income or GST... they are not merely tools used by the govt to collect money to fund its expenditures...
taxes have other functions as well... depending on its application... it can be used to stimulate a stagnant economy... control inflation as well as narrowing income gaps.... and other functions as well...
a converstation which i had with a senior fellow colleague....
C: govt raising GST.. my KOPI and chakwaytiao is gonna rise in prices...
M: yalor... expected lah...
C: last time so nice... i remember my chakwaytiao only 10 cent a plate...
M: 10cent? since when?
C: 40 years ago!
M: ...... wow......... so you everyday eat chakwaytiao 5 times a day lah?
C: no lah....
M: why not? so.. cheap... 10 cent leh!...
C: but my salary is 90 dollar then, chakwaytiao too much a luxury!
M: ...... oh..... 10 cent chakwaytiao is a luxury..... then my today $2 chakwaytiao must be emperor food lah...
C: times are different mah... last time i earn $90 dollar... now i make $6,000 dollar... if someone sell you chakwaytiao at 10 cent a plate... you dare to eat or not? -
that's a whole load of bull.Originally posted by kheldorin:The rationale is that the rich spend more so they get taxed more due to GST. Plus the PM mentioned measures to offset this GST increase for the poor. The exact implementation will be explained soon.
To me, it's not a matter of whether I trust the government to use this to help the poor. I wanna see the exact full implementation and then I'll analyse and decide whether the plan sucks or not. Shouting "Guilty!" relying purely on gut instinct, emotional feelings such as trust, without examining the full facts of the case is lame.
for example a person earning 1k bucks a month spends close to 750 every month. of this GST would be 0.07*0.75=.... of his salary. compare this to a person earning 10kbucks a month who spends 5000(a large amount of it). 0207*0.5=...
who loses???