Can we trust leader who says GST will be used to close gaps?
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Yah lor.Originally posted by charlize:The reason given for the GST hike is like mee siam mai hum.
After hearing it, you go huh?
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Please the economic concepts of taxation is not that simple. U cant just look at the percentage and say its good or bad. You have to look at the purpose. Here the government wants to close the income gap.
There are basically 2 different type of taxes, regressive and progressive. The way they function is diffrent. In simple term progressive tax increases proportionally to income, e.g income tax, the ppl will be able to feel the pinch. Regressive tax is the opposite, the pinch cant be felt, the proportion to income is small, e.g GST.
The reason for an increase in GST instead of normal income tax is due to it being significantly lesser. If u dont wish to pay just dont consume the goods or reduce yr consumption. A increase in GST will garner less objection as ppl do not directly feel it. An increase in GST will only result in a few cent increase in necessity while a percentage increase in income tax can mean a few hundred dollars.
The usefullness in GST helping to reduce income gap is questionable. Most books recognise that using indirect taxes to reduce the gap is insignificant. It is widely recognise that the marginal propensity to consume (MPC) of the rich is much lower than the poor. Which means the rich save much more than they consume. The poor is the opposite. Poor spends bulk of their income. There are only a few rich ppl in a country no matter how much they spend it will not exceed that of commoners. Looking at such scenario GST is mainly taxing the commoners. Income of the rich is not much affected.
However whether the income gap widen or not depends on how the government uses the revenue collected. Many charity organisation exists in Singapore however their details are hard to obtain also they follows a strict guideline. If the charity is link to the government, it follows its guideline delligently. When yr income is above their level they will not help you. This result in many famlilies considered as the relative deprive or overburden being negelected. These families seriously need help too. PM asserts that the increase in GST is to build a safety net. A strong but loosely weave net is as good as the present help given. -
The explanation is gahmen want us to decide what to do to our own money.
Meaning if we spend less TAX less, but the Rich one also spend less. How to explain the closing of gap? -
There has been a tendency to become over-pragmatic and over-presumptuous in everything government does because of the nature of the government - autocracy.Originally posted by NewAge:Please the economic concepts of taxation is not that simple. U cant just look at the percentage and say its good or bad. You have to look at the purpose. Here the government wants to close the income gap.
There are basically 2 different type of taxes, regressive and progressive. The way they function is diffrent. In simple term progressive tax increases proportionally to income, e.g income tax, the ppl will be able to feel the pinch. Regressive tax is the opposite, the pinch cant be felt, the proportion to income is small, e.g GST.
The reason for an increase in GST instead of normal income tax is due to it being significantly lesser. If u dont wish to pay just dont consume the goods or reduce yr consumption. A increase in GST will garner less objection as ppl do not directly feel it. An increase in GST will only result in a few cent increase in necessity while a percentage increase in income tax can mean a few hundred dollars.
Under autocracy, the MPs do not question policy assumptions and rationale and are too afraid of penalty for disagreements to disagree.
So one by one every policy made for good purpose and intention as stated became the bible or rule book and got carried away in implementation ad nausem and people end up suffering.
Meritocracy which was good in intent and purpose originally suffers badly today from over-zealous implementation to such an extent that it has reared its ugly head as elitism or snobbery smacking right on the face of people as witnessed by the Wee Shu Min episode.
Over-zealous corporatization of essential public services into various GLCs have resulted in double-charging on lands and infrastructures in the case of Power Supply and Hospitals resulting in raising the costs of living and losses of our economic competitiveness as experienced by PSA.
Now Foreign talent is becoming a runaway unruly horse in the hand of the civil servants who are likely to push it so hard for years that many local talents are suppressed instead while foreigners of tom dick and harry enjoy their bull run at the expense of the locals.
GST is going to be the same. People listen to some ministers explaining its rationale. Some innocent intellectuals pretend to know better and add some fuel to the fire. At the end, all agree and the civil servants will come in and propose GST increases year after year until it reaches unbearable proportion of 10-15%.
Common, foresee one thing from past experiences. If people do not have a view and do not debate sufficiently, the leaders will take it for granted and the civil servants will cause an overrun or auto-piloting of policies until they really hurt the economy.Much lower than the poor. Which means the rich save much more than they consume. The poor is the opposite. Poor spends bulk of their income. There are only a few rich ppl in a country no matter how much they spend it will not exceed that of commoners. Looking at such scenario GST is mainly taxing the commoners. Income of the rich is not much affected.
People people. Have your views and put in your efforts to tell them that they the leaders are over-presumptuous with their surpluses and building of surpluses.
However whether the income gap widen or not depends on how the government uses the revenue collected. Many charity organisation exists in Singapore however their details are hard to obtain also they follows a strict guideline. If the charity is link to the government, it follows its guideline delligently. When yr income is above their level they will not help you. This result in many famlilies considered as the relative deprive or overburden being negelected. These families seriously need help too. PM asserts that the increase in GST is to build a safety net. A strong loosely weave net is as good as the present help given.[/b]
Let these surpluses be put to go use first. As a last resort, then if there is a need to tweak the taxes insist on exchanging GST with something beneficial to people in terms of lowering costs of living and creating jobs.
If not while GST keeps going up taxes may remain high and fees will keep increasing. That is not the right way to run the government as it will kill the geese that lay the golden egg as government cannot produce jobs.
Only a competitive government could produce job and our government is by such tax-and-recovery method is certainly not competitive. -
Today ..... i found two very very wise sentences... which i hope everyone would keep in mind.
whether the income gap widen or not depends on how the government uses the revenue collected.
its indeed true that while the govt can control the GST rate... the govt has no control over the MPC of an individual.... which are shaped by many factors including personality and upbringing.
however... the govt do not operate on an individual basis... but on a macroeconomic level.
most singaporeans... pays far less in taxes, compared to the gains that they enjoyed from govt spending on social welfare, health, education and many others... services.
the govt cannot close the income gap too far... there is a need to maintain a gap as there is also a need to close the gap...one by one every policy made for good purpose and intention as stated became the bible or rule book and got carried away in implementation ad nausem and people end up suffering.
this i have to agreed..... this is what happens when we got overzealous public servants who are not elected into office... whose only concern is getting that promotion by showing exceptional zealousness in implementing policies.
yet can we fault them? or should we lay the blame on asian culture?
ultimately... its the govt... who must answer for the overzealousness of those under their charge... and bring them under control. -
percentage....Originally posted by beavan:that's a whole load of bull.
for example a person earning 1k bucks a month spends close to 750 every month. of this GST would be 0.07*0.75=.... of his salary. compare this to a person earning 10kbucks a month who spends 5000(a large amount of it). 0207*0.5=...
who loses???
most commonly used by politicians, buissnessmen and statisticians to spruce up their reports to justify their one sided view....
the govt operates on a macro level... it cannot apply different GST rates to different people based on their respective MPC ...
what it can do... is place additional taxes on luxury goods that only the rich can afford....
so if you think the rich in overall terms still pays only a mere 0.07% GST annually... i think you are dead wrong... only poor folks like me pays 0.07% tax annually.
the rich have other taxes to pay... from a higher income tax down to road tax and others... -
They increased GST to close their own friggin GAPS!
What good have they done after so much increases in almost every damn thing??? Do you see any good? Any improvements? Any reduction in living costs???
The only thing they've been improving all these decades are their own revenues!!! While each new year, businesses and wage earners have to struggle harder to make ends meet!
Farking gov...!!!
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Next year, the ST will report even more widening of the income gap.
So how? -
First GST then income taxOriginally posted by charlize:Next year, the ST will report even more widening of the income gap.
So how? -
After hearing our side of the story, our FT friends mostly have already left... PR or no PR, I think it's not difficult for them to feel the pinch themselves...Originally posted by Mid9Sun:The gahment keep sucking $$ out of us...and we have no $$ to have babies.
I wonder if it ever occur to them that they are killing off their own $$$ source.
Talking abt FTs....th gahment thinks these FT are so stoopid to come and let them suck their $$$$? No, these FTs will come..and then earn or gain experience enough and LEAVE!!!
I have a couple of FT friends....who commented that why should they stay when the gahment simply refuses to take care of their own people.....that speaks volume isnt it.. -
i really dont understand what our govt are trying to prove.
all they care about is increasing revenue and making the reserves bigger and bigger.
what is the purpose of that?
is US$120 billion not enough? frankly as far as common singaporeans are concerned it does not make any difference. -
he must think that our people are stupid. give $200 to offset GST increase. it will only offset you 1 year. after that?
knn there is such a thing call retribution
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Damn it!
We must find some way to SACK our government!!
Bluddy good for nothing but money hoarding!! -
There is a way to do it. But 66.6% of our people who actually got to vote did not do it leh. So how?Originally posted by ShutterBug:Damn it!
We must find some way to SACK our government!!
Bluddy good for nothing but money hoarding!! -
touch wood, if in an untoward thing happen to PAP, u reckon they will leave the $/reserves intact for the incoming gahmen to put it to good use?....i think it will be looted to boot.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Damn it!
We must find some way to SACK our government!!
Bluddy good for nothing but money hoarding!! -
Possible. After all none of them are honest enough to settle for less than a million dollars a year plus lifetime pension etc. They'll probably mobilise their Gurkhas and empty everything from the state coffers.Originally posted by weiqimun:touch wood, if in an untoward thing happen to PAP, u reckon they will leave the $/reserves intact for the incoming gahmen to put it to good use?....i think it will be looted to boot. -
i've got a question.
if the opposition in your estate sux... will u vote for teh opposition? -
if he has passion and sincerity i will vote for him, rather than those insincere MIWOriginally posted by shinta:i've got a question.
if the opposition in your estate sux... will u vote for teh opposition? -
When I was still under the bukit timah single seat constituency(now gerrymandered into another grc), I voted for the opposition candidate, even though I had no fucking clue who he was.Originally posted by shinta:i've got a question.
if the opposition in your estate sux... will u vote for teh opposition?
I'd vote for a monkey even.
Heck, the americans voted twice for a chimp! -
Originally posted by shinta:i've got a question.
if the opposition in your estate sux... will u vote for teh opposition?
Even LKY had no ground experience when he started off. He could climb because he was given a fair shot, and wasn't suppressed by the media/government. If the govt back then did the same thing as what our gahmen today is doing, he would probably "suck" too.
Why not give the opposition parties a fair chance to realize their potential? They have the passion, and they're willing to listen and to improve.. They're even willing to be accountable for their own actions instead of pointing fingers. So chances are, they will do all in their power to help you... not just tell you to go solve your own problems. -
Yup,its true,the government sucks our money n thats why we have no money to have babies,and they are killing their own resources.They thought by introducing FTs to our country will help solve the decrease in the population,but FTs are no stupid ppl,when they see how the government threat his own citizens,they wouldnt want to become a Singaporeans anymore.Originally posted by Mid9Sun:The gahment keep sucking $$ out of us...and we have no $$ to have babies.
I wonder if it ever occur to them that they are killing off their own $$$ source.
Talking abt FTs....th gahment thinks these FT are so stoopid to come and let them suck their $$$$? No, these FTs will come..and then earn or gain experience enough and LEAVE!!!
I have a couple of FT friends....who commented that why should they stay when the gahment simply refuses to take care of their own people.....that speaks volume isnt it.. -
Just do a survey of how the China top students have accepted our scholarship and before they confirm their P. R. how quickly they veer off to other destinations like US or Canada.Originally posted by drawer:Yup,its true,the government sucks our money n thats why we have no money to have babies,and they are killing their own resources.They thought by introducing FTs to our country will help solve the decrease in the population,but FTs are no stupid ppl,when they see how the government threat his own citizens,they wouldnt want to become a Singaporeans anymore.
This confirms one fact - foreigners with talents are not fools. They can see a lot of anti-people and anti-business policies which will not lead to any great but continued success of government's own well-connected elites in future. -
Carry on here