Minimum wage threatens survival of small businesses
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Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
If you must quote me, at least be honest and accurate in your attempt to do so, why did you leave out the first two related paragraphs from this part of my response to your previous post ?
quote from original post by Atobe:
Do you think that you are helping the poor and the government by removing cigaretters and alcohol from them ?
You may actually add an additional long term problem of having more in-house patients living in the mental institution; or cause some murderous assault when the poor goes berserk and attack family members or some others, or even injure themselves.
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Hahaha...nearly die of laughter...no alcohol and cigarettes will turn you into a madman....maybe that works for you
what absolute and utter rubbish
"The rich and higher income group can always get away with their addictive habits of smoking and drinking, while the poor will be driven to madness with their craving to smoke or drink to relieve the stress that they are already subjected to by their poverty.
There should be some leeway for the poor to be given some avenues to relieve the pressures that they are subjected to."
Surely your time at Oxford would have taught you this courtesy, unless you have been too much of a lecherous mushroom not to have learnt such simple courtesy ?
You have shown yourself to be such a conceited and condescending expert with the richness of utter and absolute rubbish, can one expect you to have any empathy towards those who are less fortunate ?
Still no reasonable reply to your "Absolute rubbish" of 60% of Singaporeans not paying income taxes ?
Is your pickiness with my response to your last post not revealing some inadequacy of your thought process despite your PhD claims ? -
to that 60%, i'm still wondering how many of the 60% actually have an income?
or are babies, retired people, handicapped, children in schools also counted in the 60%? -
Agree... to a certain extent, every economically active individual is some how a "premium" workforce...Originally posted by miserable:Dear Squiggly, do not underestimate this "premium" workforce. Everyone can qualifies himself as one.
The professionals can move abroad to practise their skill. The under skilled ?
Remember in the 80's the Koreans were here in the construction sector ? Even now,many mainland chinese, indians are moving out of their respective country to another. Unskilled Singaporeans too, have a choice if they are willing to bite the bitter pill and move on to another country in search of a better future. Always remember our forefathers are too immigrants before.
Of course. Should this happens,this will be very sad for Singapore as a nation. I pray not but will not be surprised if the gahment continue not to heed the public whingeing on rising cost and the widening disparity between the elites and middle class.
Just that I'd hardly think the foreign countries want to import Singaporean "unskilled" manpower... Compared to the more economical options from Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, India, China etc.... Singaporean unskilled labour is still way too expensive...
The only Singaporean exports are usually knowledge-based Premium workforce... and these people venture overseas to seek a better than average lifestyle than they currently are enjoying in Singapore....
And the unskilled (and sometimes uneducated) in Singapore are left with no options... but to stay in Singapore, and live with whatever our policy makers drop on them... -
read something like that ages ago(when i was still in school, 10 years maybe?), but it was something like 70% and there was suppose to be an age blacket so children and really old people weren't included. nothing about handicapped though.Originally posted by the Bear:to that 60%, i'm still wondering how many of the 60% actually have an income?
or are babies, retired people, handicapped, children in schools also counted in the 60%? -
no minimum wage? civil servants' pay to be raised so that it can match private sector, and naturally so to will the pay of political office holders (a good disguise).....the reason given is to retain talents.....it's not wholly valid as there will simply not be enough places in the private sector. in any case, they could well ship out some of the scholars given the recent less than stellar showing....
these guys have lost the moral authority to look into the eyes of the people and tell them they understand what the rising costs of living is doing to people and that they are doing all they can to help....no wonder they've been saying the widening income gap will widen even further...it's all a ploy???? -
I think ministers' pay is tax free...Originally posted by sgdiehard:Hard to accept this. Government can increase personal income tax for the higher wage earner (but obviously they don't want to annoy those rich ones, including the ministers), they can also increase taxes and duties for the luxuries items, why should they choose to collect more first from ALL, then redistribute to the poor the way they define? do the poor families need to apply, need to justify how poor they are?
I see no justification for any increase at all, UNLESS the government exempt the essential household items from GST.
So who wants to be minister? -
actually, let's adjust the pay to like "private sector" and to be equal to the "free market"
the working hacks in the civil service will have a pay increase and the MINISTERS will have a drastic pay cut when you benchmark (stupid word from the con-men-sultants) their pay against the other ministers in the world
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Exactly...unless unskilled and low-skilled Singaporeans upgrade themselves, they will lose out in the global market. Burying one's head in the sand or blaming the government will not help them.Originally posted by Squiggly:ust that I'd hardly think the foreign countries want to import Singaporean "unskilled" manpower... Compared to the more economical options from Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, India, China etc.... Singaporean unskilled labour is still way too expensive...
The only Singaporean exports are usually knowledge-based Premium workforce... and these people venture overseas to seek a better than average lifestyle than they currently are enjoying in Singapore....
And the unskilled (and sometimes uneducated) in Singapore are left with no options... but to stay in Singapore, and live with whatever our policy makers drop on them...
There are skill development courses available partly funded by the government and in part by employers who stand to gain a trainee employee who will be bonded to them. It is turning into an employee's market now...low-skilled workers should take this opportunity to upgrade their skills while they can. -
Oxford mushroom - aren't you a medical doctor or something? I would suggest that you read The Social determinants of health: the solid facts by Richard Wilkinson and Michael Marmot. Those lower income groups don't smoke or drink for the sake of burning money.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Absolute rubbish! 60% of Singaporeans do not pay income tax and far greater numbers of low income earners in Singapore do not pay income tax compared to many other countries. It does not make sense anyway taxing the low income earners...they earn to little to generate sufficient revenue.
Taxing higher income earners is counterproductive when our main competitor Hong Kong has a lower tax rate. We will only drive investments and jobs in that direction, if we follow the policies of Opposition Party supporters.
The middle income group is the group that tends to get squeezed. If they have marketable skills overseas, more will consider leaving if we tax them too much. That's why indirect taxes like GST is better than ditrect taxes.
I think we should levy more indirect taxes on alcohol, cigarettes and cars. Tobacco and alcohol have a deleterious effect on health and puts a greater burden on the health system. Tax them to high heavens will put them out of the reach of the poor who cannot afford ill health anyway.
Frankly I belong to the middle income group and I left for a country which has a 10% GST tax and 27% off the income tax and every percent against each tax bracket above the nominal amount you get into . So what are you talking about discouraging migration through the introduction of indirect tax? Makes no sense to me whatsoever.
Upskilling the unskilled in what? To learn to be domestic help? Sell out the older and more experienced workers to a retirement life of being a Macdonald's uncle/auntie or a cleaner? You call that UPSKILLING? Oh yes that is what I heard from the grapevine in Singapore. Note it is much cheaper to hire domestic help from Indonesia, Thailand or Philipines.
Why even bother giving a lot of scholarships and bursaries to foreigners if locals are left out in the cold ? Other countries such as Australia can afford to give it out while keeping education very cheap - their university education is cheaper than Singapore's for their own citizens who can make it through the commonwealth supported place system.
I am no expert in minimum wage issues but the way I see it :
Minimum wages make a great idea and so is getting them indexed to the inflation rate - it does not open people to open and direct exploitation any more than they should be. What's wrong with that? Unless there is a ALREADY a plan to exploit them. Minimum wages are a reasonable request for the common workers out there. The sole opposing reason is usually that of making the rich RICHER and the poor suffer.
There are many ways of making small businesses survive . Minimum wage would not cripple it but increased GST might....since less people might spend freely. Large corporations, of course won't be crippled by that. And look at the market , the large corporations can afford to drop the prices of products pretty fast through centralised bulk buying (which attracts a large discount) and selling at a profit while the small business can't since they do not bulk buy and they have to deal with the overhead costs of an increased Gst plus less customers since most would flock to buy from a large departmental store for a lesser price. -
Direct taxes as a strategy for raising revenue hits the high income groups most. But such a Marxist tax system is self-defeating. The group that contributes most to the nation's revenue also provides the most jobs. They are also the most mobile. By targeting them, they will move elsewhere, just like the Finnish financial expert who re-located to Singapore to escape the high taxes of the welfare state.Originally posted by fymk:Oxford mushroom - aren't you a medical doctor or something? I would suggest that you read The Social determinants of health: the solid facts by Richard Wilkinson and Michael Marmot. Those lower income groups don't smoke or drink for the sake of burning money.
Frankly I belong to the middle income group and I left for a country which has a 10% GST tax and 27% off the income tax and every percent against each tax bracket above the nominal amount you get into . So what are you talking about discouraging migration through the introduction of indirect tax? Makes no sense to me whatsoever.
Upskilling the unskilled in what? To learn to be domestic help? Sell out the older and more experienced workers to a retirement life of being a Macdonald's uncle/auntie or a cleaner? You call that UPSKILLING? Oh yes that is what I heard from the grapevine in Singapore. Note it is much cheaper to hire domestic help from Indonesia, Thailand or Philipines.
Why even bother giving a lot of scholarships and bursaries to foreigners if locals are left out in the cold ? Other countries such as Australia can afford to give it out while keeping education very cheap - their university education is cheaper than Singapore's for their own citizens who can make it through the commonwealth supported place system.
I am no expert in minimum wage issues but the way I see it :
Minimum wages make a great idea and so is getting them indexed to the inflation rate - it does not open people to open and direct exploitation any more than they should be. What's wrong with that? Unless there is a ALREADY a plan to exploit them. Minimum wages are a reasonable request for the common workers out there. The sole opposing reason is usually that of making the rich RICHER and the poor suffer.
There are many ways of making small businesses survive . Minimum wage would not cripple it but increased GST might....since less people might spend freely. Large corporations, of course won't be crippled by that. And look at the market , the large corporations can afford to drop the prices of products pretty fast through centralised bulk buying (which attracts a large discount) and selling at a profit while the small business can't since they do not bulk buy and they have to deal with the overhead costs of an increased Gst plus less customers since most would flock to buy from a large departmental store for a lesser price.
Minimum wages will be the fastest way to kill off SMEs. Big corporations can withstand an increase in manpower costs better than small businesses. In any case, it is unlikely that imposition of the minimum wage will affect businesses with full-time workers in a fairly high-value industry.
How high should the minimum wage be? Let's put it at $750 a month or its equivalent in hourly rates. Most Singaporean workers are already paid more than that. Even a Singaporean cleaner with Ministry of the Environment trained to use modern cleaning equipment stands to earn about $1k a month. The workers who will be affected will be your domestic maids, the unskilled Bangladeshi cleaner in your office and the like.
A minimal wage will benefit foreign domestic workers the most. Try to impose a minimum wage: it will be Singaporeans who will be up in arms, having to more than double the wages to their maids. -
This is a food chain problem;
- GST increase may not affect most businesses as non-GST registered businesses can volunteer to convert to a GST registered business (i think there are some exceptions here)
GST hike will affect low income group the MOST. In fact, we all know that on the other side of the scale, the govt will be reducing personal and corporate tax... so at the end of the day... the richer income groups may just benefit more from the GST hike more than anyone else (as long as they monitor spending on high-priced items).
- as for minimum wage, will probably affect yet again, the smaller organisations (cos the bigger guys are most probably already paying a perceievd "Minimum wage"). Implement this, and be ready to see entrepreneurial activity nose-diving. Frankly, this is possibly too troublesome for the government to draw up.
For the self-employed / small business owners, how many of you actually paid yourself the market rate / even the "compulsory" CPF contributions?
Our government operates on a very macro level... And it's always been "survival of the fittest"... can't make it? Too bad... small business owners who are still operating should count their lucky starts, who knows when our men in white will decide that they should enter every possible market to create a more "dynamic" and "balanced" market... %$#@ -
I do hope those "helpful" folks at the top understands wat they are doing.... Realise help is most ready for those who are already employed? What about those who cannot find a job? What about those who don't understand a word of english?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Exactly...unless unskilled and low-skilled Singaporeans upgrade themselves, they will lose out in the global market. Burying one's head in the sand or blaming the government will not help them.
There are skill development courses available partly funded by the government and in part by employers who stand to gain a trainee employee who will be bonded to them. It is turning into an employee's market now...low-skilled workers should take this opportunity to upgrade their skills while they can.
frankly, upgrade of skill? To what? Use of computer? All I know is the govt unit responsible for this move was active for a while... after that, like everything else, just dies off...
in fact, I am starting to doubt the efforts of these "helpful" people... one day, our indonesian domestic helper received a letter from these MOM people... it's a letter to invite domestic helpers to pick up computer skills... trust me... my jaw dropped to the floor... excuse me "helpful" people at MOM... Our domestic helper doesn't use the computer for any part of her job... If there's a must to "upgrade"... then please offer free cooking lessons or something like that....
Sigh... who said something about balancing the pay discrepency between public and private sector? The day our civil sector starts doing things the right way, I am pretty sure the pay will automatically be adjusted.... -