So much for transparency and subsidies
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I know I am detracting from the topic.Originally posted by scabstermooch:Fymk, I do not want to get into a slagging match and I hope you do not take this the wrong way.
You seem to know alot about how a healthcare system works but do you realize that you are diverting attention from the issues that the TS wants to look at, namely, Why medisave doesn't do what it says on the tin, why polyclinics are charging so much more for medicine, and why doctors are able to get away with arbitrarily billing their clilents?
However , if they expect to go to gleneagles , they expect to foot the cost instead of complaining about subsidy . Gleneagles is for those who have money to throw.
Medishield was the issue if I am not wrong - as for any private health insurance would cost against the amount least expected to pay and Medishield is costed against 3 parameters - you pay the gap. So if let's say someone goes to B2 class and have to get a cardiac bypass - they pay around (for example) 6k - 1.4k is to ward off the costs. The gap is 4.6k and that is what the person has to pay off themselves . If they chose to go to a private hospital - that costing will have to apply to be fair to all , or else everyone would go and receive private treatment - that way any insurance company would go bust like that. Medisave - you can use it up to a certain limit if there is money in the account.
If they have said oh their mom-in-law went to a restructured hospital and stayed in a subsidised class and yet the bill goes to 50k ....I would been in their direct defence and totally outraged .
As for a doctor who cannot account for his bill - I say that is his wrong.
Bear was talking about why govt cannot improve the health system - that is what I am answering to. Not for the doctor who cannot account for his bill. -
If you cannot afford Shangri-la, you stay in Hotel 81.
If they haven't got the money, why go to Gleneagles? If you want the higher quality of private hospital care, you jolly well pay for it. If all Singaporeans follow their example and use Medishield to fund private hospitalisation, the scheme will collapse in no time.
They asked for it
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Private hospital doesn't mean higher quality . You still can get quality in restructured hospitals if you chose to stay in their private classes , like B1,which is cheaper than Gleneagles .Originally posted by oxford mushroom:If you cannot afford Shangri-la, you stay in Hotel 81.
If they haven't got the money, why go to Gleneagles? If you want the higher quality of private hospital care, you jolly well pay for it. If all Singaporeans follow their example and use Medishield to fund private hospitalisation, the scheme will collapse in no time.
They asked for it
This is scary - I actually agree with you in a way. -
whatever is suggested in the cpf is never good enough.
it is just another excuse for them to move and hold on to our money. -
do doctors nowadays do what the lawyers do when it comes to billing?Originally posted by LinYu:ST Forum 28 Nov 06 - Doc itemised bill after charging lump sum
I AGREE with Mr Peter Loon Seng Chee that Singapore consumers should demand the strict enforcement of the so-called 'what you see is what you pay' rule ('Merchants, state nett prices with surcharges'; ST, Nov 20).
I would like to share my experience with a private doctor in Singapore. For a series of consultations, he charged me a huge lump sum. After payment, I requested a breakdown of the charges.
To my surprise, the doctor told me he had no breakdown and needed time to draw one up.
A week later, I received a breakdown and I was horrified to discover that I was charged for days I did not visit his clinic. I wrote to the doctor and, instead of addressing the errors, he gave me a new breakdown.
This manner of charging seems to go against the grain of professional ethics.
Shouldn't a doctor have a breakdown of work and charges before billing his patient, and not the other way round?
Li Jian Hua (Mrs)
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No, although they should.Originally posted by dragg:do doctors nowadays do what the lawyers do when it comes to billing?
There are only general rules about medical charges as published by the Singapore Medical Association for GP consultations and they are not mandatory. In general, market forces dictate how much anyone can charge.
Doctors do not charge if his patient calls up for consultation over the phone or if a complex consultation takes longer than usual, unlike lawyers who charge by the hour. Perhaps doctors should do that as well? I dun think that will work though because competition will be a deterrent. Patients can always go to another GP who charges less. -
singaporeans are really too lazy to find out the details and always believe that whatever the govt provides is the best!Originally posted by LinYu:ST Forum 28 Nov 06
ALL citizens who have contributed to Medisave qualify for health insurance, in the form of MediShield.
This is so that, with rising health-care costs, they have insurance to fall back on when they are taken ill.
However, what happened to my mother-in-law recently proved unsettling.
Chew Kai Hwa (Ms)
if ms chew had taken the trouble to find out more medishield, then she won't be surprised today.
coverage provided by medishield is actually quite small, one should consider some private insurance plans. and of course before one signs on the dotted line one should read and verify the fine prints. -
I think that is not the issue. The issue is that the lady chose to admit her mother-in-law into a more expensive hospital beyond what they can afford and where consultants charge exorbitantly per visit . They should have actually check what is the maximum amount that is paid out and calculated if they can afford a 50k bill .Originally posted by lotus999:singaporeans are really too lazy to find out the details and always believe that whatever the govt provides is the best!
if ms chew had taken the trouble to find out more medishield, then she won't be surprised today.
coverage provided by medishield is actually quite small, one should consider some private insurance plans. and of course before one signs on the dotted line one should read and verify the fine prints.
I recalled that Mount E will always estimate the amount that is likely to be paid out and ask for a deposit before admission. I also notice that there are certain types of people like to show off to their other relatives that they have the 'money' to put their relatives in private hospitals.
In Australia, I think even my private health insurance only covers a certain amount and I have to pay a gap. I have to find private hospitals which my insurance will cover fully and they do have a list. -
that is not the point!!!Originally posted by fymk:I think that is not the issue. The issue is that the lady chose to admit her mother-in-law into a more expensive hospital beyond what they can afford and where consultants charge exorbitantly per visit . They should have actually check what is the maximum amount that is paid out and calculated if they can afford a 50k bill .
I recalled that Mount E will always estimate the amount that is likely to be paid out and ask for a deposit before admission. I also notice that there are certain types of people like to show off to their other relatives that they have the 'money' to put their relatives in private hospitals.
In Australia, I think even my private health insurance only covers a certain amount and I have to pay a gap. I have to find private hospitals which my insurance will cover fully and they do have a list.
even if the lady had chosen to admit her mother-in-law to a govt hospital the amount she got from medishield is still 1k odd only. -
IN 'MEDISHIELD paid $1,438 of $50,000 hospital bill' (ST, Nov 2
, Ms Chew Kai Hwa asked why MediShield could not pay a larger portion of her mother-in-law's hospital bill at Gleneagles Hospital.
MediShield Basic is meant to help members pay for hospital bills incurred in subsidised Class B2/C wards. As Ms Chew's mother-in-law was covered under the MediShield Basic plan, it would not fully cover the bill for her stay at a private hospital.
For those who want additional protection to cover stays in private wards or hospitals, there are rider products that can be purchased to complement the MediShield Basic plan. These enhanced Medisave-approved insurance plans are offered by five private insurers and a listing of such plans is available on the Ministry of Health website at www.moh.gov.sg.
As there are many medical-insurance plans, it is important, when choosing the type of plans to buy, to take into account the choice of hospital wards, the type of coverage desired and the affordability of premiums.
Karen Tan (Ms)
Director
Corporate Communications
Ministry of Health -
You got your answer from the above post - meant for subsidy at B2/C rate. And I think at B2 - bypass should not go past at least 6k or soOriginally posted by dragg:that is not the point!!!
even if the lady had chosen to admit her mother-in-law to a govt hospital the amount she got from medishield is still 1k odd only. -
Haha...if they think what the government provides is the best, why did they go to Gleneagles? Serves them right!Originally posted by lotus999:singaporeans are really too lazy to find out the details and always believe that whatever the govt provides is the best!
if ms chew had taken the trouble to find out more medishield, then she won't be surprised today.
coverage provided by medishield is actually quite small, one should consider some private insurance plans. and of course before one signs on the dotted line one should read and verify the fine prints. -
If she had chosen to admit her mother-in-law to a public hospital, the amount from medishield would have been a substantial portion of the bill.Originally posted by dragg:that is not the point!!!
even if the lady had chosen to admit her mother-in-law to a govt hospital the amount she got from medishield is still 1k odd only.
Many commercial insurers would not even consider accepting a policy for an elderly person with medical problems, unless you pay through your nose in premiums.
You pay peanuts into a basic insurance scheme and you expect to get tens of thousands back?? Do you expect other Singaporeans to pay the difference?
Wake up, Singaporeans -
6k or less at govt hospital and 50k at private hospital.Originally posted by fymk:You got your answer from the above post - meant for subsidy at B2/C rate. And I think at B2 - bypass should not go past at least 6k or so
is that what you mean? -
At B2 class in a govt hospital is around at most 6k or less if we are to look at http://www.moh.gov.sg/corp/charges/common/billsize.do?id=17 and add miscellaneous in. My relative was admitted into SGH for a bypass in B1 and it came to 15k or so.Originally posted by dragg:6k or less at govt hospital and 50k at private hospital.
is that what you mean?
Gleneagles - more expensive because they have only B1 to A1 beds. And taking into account- the consultants/surgeon tend to charge a few hundred dollars each time they visit the patient plus dressing is done usually by them so it is another few hundred dollars .And if there is an emergency , they come out of office hours to check on the patient, another few hundred dollars. Of course you expect to pay heavily for a privately runned hospital with quality of a government hospital private class since you are paying extra for the privilege of getting your personal surgeon to look at you everyday.
So you really have to chose wisely. If the lady has said her mom-in-law's bill was 50k despite staying in a B2 subsidised ward - then I would have been outraged and on her side.
Unfortunately I find it hard to sympathise with her situation since the mom-in-law was admitted to GLENEAGLES and talk about getting more out of medishield . It is not fair to other Singaporeans who go to government hospitals and stay in subsidised wards because it is within their means to pay, and then get a lesser amount from medishield than the other lady. ESPEcIALLY when everyone is paying the same rate. -
now lets assume she did choose to admit her mother-in-law into a govt hospital. will the amount from medishield be higher than the $1400 odd?
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With all due respect, I would think that it would be understood from my earlier post.Originally posted by dragg:now lets assume she did choose to admit her mother-in-law into a govt hospital. will the amount from medishield be higher than the $1400 odd?
Let's assume if she admitted her mother in law to a govt hospital B2 class - the bill is 6k ....she still gets back the same amount except this time she has to pay around 4.5k which is definitely far lower than some private class hospital. The only thing that will change if she admits her mother-in-law to a govt hospital is that gap of 4.5K instead of some 49k or so bill at gleneagles.
She paid for a medishield basic - so the set standard is at B2 class bill - premium don't change across the board. Surely you don't expect A1 class or B1 class to be covered as well when she chooses a basic plan?
I do not sympathise with this lady at all and that is why the newspaper probably published her letter. Easy for one to read Gleneagles and she is asking for MORE while the rest of the population are staying in B2 beds and using medishield because they know their finances cannot take the battering of a private class hospital bed. -
I believe its their decision to send their loved one to the private hospital but the shock is with the medical cost in singapore
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I don't believe that they expect to pay the same amount in a private hospital. You don't check into the Ritz Carlton and then become shocked by the bill when you checkout. Who are they going to fool?Originally posted by LinYu:I believe its their decision to send their loved one to the private hospital but the shock is with the medical cost in singapore -
Then their decision was not practical - admirable but not practical for their finances. Just because my parents choose govt restructured hospitals to get admitted in doesn't mean that I don't love them more than the son of the lady who chose Gleneagles.Originally posted by LinYu:I believe its their decision to send their loved one to the private hospital but the shock is with the medical cost in singapore
The medical cost when you talk about private hospitals are barely affordable unless you have alot of cash reserve or you choose to go into debt. If you choose to go into debt for the treatment of a parent - it is your responsibility to pay it up , don't expect the government to use tax payer money to pay for the luxury of a private hospital. They choose private and they shouldn't expect any rebate of any great and wonderous value from a basic coverage plan.
Besides I worked in a private hospital for a specialist as well as a public hospital in Singapore, and there is absolutely nothing great about private hospitals except they are a status symbol - "Oh My relative is staying at so and so hospital" .
Big deal - no difference between a public or private hospital - the privilege in a private hospital is just seeing the same specialist who treated you and will do your dressings for a couple of hundred dollars.
Even the best cardiothoracic surgeons are in SGH. Had a relative transfer from one private hospital into SGH private class to do surgery on the lungs. Had another who survived cardiac bypass in SGH.
This letter makes poor argument for medical costs especially when the letter is talking about a private hospital's costing. -
You and I know that, but not many Singaporeans. It is the public perception that fuels the high medical bills in private hospitals. If you are prepared to pay 50k for Gleneagles, it will be daft of them to charge 25k, even if that is what it costs to provide the service.Originally posted by fymk:Private hospital doesn't mean higher quality . You still can get quality in restructured hospitals if you chose to stay in their private classes , like B1,which is cheaper than Gleneagles .
But the people are completely entitled to choose private hospitals, select their own surgeons, have their surgeons remove dressing instead of a staff nurse; so long as they are prepared to pay for it.
If you haven't got the dough, you have no right to demand that others contribute the flour. -
why not? if the lady had find out the details of medishield she would know the maximum the plan pays and she would not be surprised it is only a small % of a private hospital bill.Originally posted by fymk:I think that is not the issue. The issue is that the lady chose to admit her mother-in-law into a more expensive hospital beyond what they can afford and where consultants charge exorbitantly per visit . They should have actually check what is the maximum amount that is paid out and calculated if they can afford a 50k bill . -
LOL , I think sometimes people need to think and read through a contract before they sign anything. Would you simply sign a contract without checking what it entails? Would you buy insurance without checking what it covers? Even when we buy fruits, we check for rot on the fruits . Insurance you pay for - when you don't check especially when it is a big sum of money - then I say that is pure stupidity on the part of the person signing it.Originally posted by lotus999:why not? if the lady had find out the details of medishield she would know the maximum the plan pays and she would not be surprised it is only a small % of a private hospital bill.
I don't blindly sign stuff because it has the insignia of the government . I always check what I sign up for. -
some clinics charge that way wor...Originally posted by oxford mushroom:No, although they should.
There are only general rules about medical charges as published by the Singapore Medical Association for GP consultations and they are not mandatory. In general, market forces dictate how much anyone can charge.
Doctors do not charge if his patient calls up for consultation over the phone or if a complex consultation takes longer than usual, unlike lawyers who charge by the hour. Perhaps doctors should do that as well? I dun think that will work though because competition will be a deterrent. Patients can always go to another GP who charges less.
dunno what consultation (15 min) 20 buckz
dunno what consultation (20 min) 30 buckz
dunno what consultation (30 min) 40 buckz
sth like that... -
LHL talked about the 3 Ms yesterday (wah like refering to his daddy) - MediSheild, MediSave, MediFund. He forgot the 4th - MRT.