We should outsource our electricity needs to Malaysia!!!!!!
-
You are likely to be paid more than twice the salary of a person doing the same job in Malaysia.
You want your pay to be equalised or not? If not, don't just anyhow hantam and kau peh kau bu.
Your grasp of energy economics is quite poor. You wrote about Middle East oil, but we don't use that to generate our electricity. We use natural gas from both Malaysia and Indonesia.
*yawn*
obiterdictaOriginally posted by maurizio13:
Since cost competiveness is the keyword these days, with the lowering of corporate tax rates and all.
I think we should get our electricity supply from Malaysia, since their cost is only:
The average tariff in Peninsular Malaysia, Sabah and Sarawak is 23.5 sen/kWh, 24.0 sen/Kwh and 27.1 sen/Kwh respectively.
http://www.st.gov.my/statistics/SESB.html
For your information, the sen use in Malaysia is half of Singapore's cent.
As compared to Singapore Power's charge of 21.64 cent/Kwh.
Current exchange rate is SGD 1.00 = MYR 2.35.
When you convert Malaysia's most expensive rate of 27.1 sen over to Singapore dollars, it's only [b]11.53 cents/Kwh as compared to the current 21.64 cents/Kwh.
Maybe it's time the government consider outsourcing it's energy needs to the more efficient energy company Suruhanjaya Tenaga (Malaysia), instead of relying on our inefficient Singapore Power.
The rate of 27.1 sen/Kwh is just an average rate, the rates can go as low as 16 sen/Kwh for Sabah.
http://www.st.gov.my/statistics/SESB.html
If Singapore Power is so inefficient!!!
Shut it down!!!
Don't waste our resources!!!!
We can get cheaper power from Malaysia!!![/b] -
*yawn*Originally posted by ObiterDicta:You are likely to be paid more than twice the salary of a person doing the same job in Malaysia.
You want your pay to be equalised or not? If not, don't just anyhow hantam and kau peh kau bu.
Your grasp of energy economics is quite poor. You wrote about Middle East oil, but we don't use that to generate our electricity. We use natural gas from both Malaysia and Indonesia.
*yawn*
obiterdicta
Ermmm, since when I said we rely on middle eastern crude oil (diesel) to produce electricity, I was merely stating a very "inefficient" method of electricity production, it's still cheaper than Singapore Power. Don't put words in my mouth!
"Well, we get our oil from middle east, if middle east doesn't to provide us with oil. What are we going to do? Simple, find another source."
This statement has nothing to do with electricity generation, I am using it as an example to explain outsourcing. Did it mention anything about electricity generation?
FYI, it's a whole lot cheaper to produce electricity by natural gas, based on California Energy Commission's report in 2003, it's like 4.58 US cents/Kwh, even if you inflate it by 100%, it's still around 10 US cents/Kwh.
http://www.energy.ca.gov/2003_energypolicy/documents/2003-02-25+26_workshop/100-03-001SD_BADR.PDF
*YAWN*
ratio decidendi -
Little boy, go and read up before you make all these bold remarks..the Malaysian government gives a retail subsidy of about 22% in addition to unknown amount of subsidies directly to the producers. The former is in the Malaysian government website I quoted. No studies on the latter have been performed but if you are interested to know about government subsidies in Australia, go read this paper:Originally posted by maurizio13:How much subsidies does the Malaysian government provide? Do you have any data on it?
http://www.isf.uts.edu.au/publications/CR_2003_paper.pdf -
Little girl,Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Little boy, go and read up before you make all these bold remarks..the Malaysian government gives a retail subsidy of about 22% in addition to unknown amount of subsidies directly to the producers. The former is in the Malaysian government website I quoted. No studies on the latter have been performed but if you are interested to know about government subsidies in Australia, go read this paper:
http://www.isf.uts.edu.au/publications/CR_2003_paper.pdf
Your subsidy don't tell us anything about the cost of 1 Kwh of electricity.
If it cost me 10 cents to produce 1 Kwh of electricity, the government subsidizes 20%, which is 2 cents, if I sell it for 15 cents/Kwh, the company still makes 7 cents from 1 Kwh. 7 cents out of 8 cents is approximately a mark up of 100%.
Subsidy don't tell you sh|ts if you don't know how and where it is allocated. -
Natural Gas Trade In The Market Without Government Subsidies.
Current Spot Price for Natural Gas NYMEX.
USD 10.77/MMbtu
1 MMbtu = 1,000,000 btu
1 Kwh = 3413 btu
1,000,000 btu / 3413 btu = 292.99 Kwh
USD 10.77 X 1.56 = SGD 16.80
which means SGD 16.80 will produce 292.99 Kwh of electricity. I am not sure what is the process loss (of if there is any) during the conversion from natural gas to electricity, but let's say it's 10%. So we end up with (292 Kwh X 90%) = 263.69 Kwh.
If you divide the cost by the 263.69 Kwh, you get:
6.37 cents/Kwh as compared to 21.64 cents/Kwh for Singapore Power
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/ngw/ngupdate.asp
We can have a process loss during conversion of up to 50% and still make a hefty profit when we sell at 15 cents/Kwh.
292.99Kwh x 50% = 146.50Kwh
SGD 16.80 / 146.50 Kwh = 11.47 cents/Kwh -
you obviously underestimate our MIW, if they can devise cunning plans to milk the population of their money they can devise plans to keep the supply going even after a bombardment, and what good will an existing SAF do if it can't even protect the mainland from being blown back to the stoneageOriginally posted by maurizio13:Ermmm, with or without the vital supplies, do you think our electricity production plant will sustain an artillery bombarbment or other missiles?
During times of war, all the vital installations will be targeted.
Hehehe
Don't think linearly.
-
Unfortunately, we don't have any track record to prove it. All our soldiers are freshies, who may succumb to shell shock at the first sound of enemy fire directed at them and the sight of blood.Originally posted by vito_corleone:you obviously underestimate our MIW, if they can devise cunning plans to milk the population of their money they can devise plans to keep the supply going even after a bombardment, and what good will an existing SAF do if it can't even protect the mainland from being blown back to the stoneage -
pls, there is something call self reliance.
u might as well outsource everything to malaysia and when relations turn sour, see how u get ur cheaper electric... -
Is there self reliance on our agricultural products? If relationship turns sour where are we going to get our basic food? We can always get from other sources.Originally posted by Hocklez:pls, there is something call self reliance.
u might as well outsource everything to malaysia and when relations turn sour, see how u get ur cheaper electric...
Anyway my point isn't about outsourcing, the main issue is that, our electricity cost is too ridiculously expensive. Go see the conversion for natural gas to electricity I posted earlier.
Don't always believe what they feed you in the media and newspaper, use a bit of your brain to think.
It cost like 6.37 cents/Kwh using market spot rates for natural gas with 10% process loss, whereas Singapore Power charges us 21.64 cents/Kwh.
Don't you think Singapore Power is milking us too much?
Somebody also mentioned earlier that we get our natural gas from Malaysia and Indonesia. Why don't you ask yourself where are we going to get natural gas if relationship turns sour? Isn't this the same as purchasing electricity from Malaysia? -
going by your philosophy, we might as well outsource our defense to malaysia.Originally posted by maurizio13:Unfortunately, we don't have any track record to prove it. All our soldiers are freshies, who may succumb to shell shock at the first sound of enemy fire directed at them and the sight of blood. -
That is your logic, not mine, I didn't say it.Originally posted by vito_corleone:going by your philosophy, we might as well outsource our defense to malaysia.
Hehehe
Got nothing else to say, change subject.
Tsk Tsk.
If you can't defeat him, switch to another topic.
Are you going to rebutt all my points?
I am only stating facts. -
hmm....like that hah ? Outsourcing is part of globalization right ? Maybe we should not only consider outsourcing electricity needs but also our gahment too.
Get a few FT that be able to do the job at a lower cost. -
Good idea, they always let in FT to take away our jobs.Originally posted by miserable:hmm....like that hah ? Outsourcing is part of globalization right ? Maybe we should not only consider outsourcing electricity needs but also our gahment too. Get a few FT that be able to do the job at a lower cost.
Maybe we should get FT take away their's, it's cheaper leh, Zhu RongJi, Hu Jingtao, etc.
All cheaper than our gabrament, think with only the mee siam mai hum's pay, can employ 100 top level government officials.
1 ZhuGeLiang cannot beat 3 ZhuPiJiang. -
mai gong ah.
even if electricity is outsourced they will come up with import tax for electricity. -
Put aside the cost, think about what will happen if we rely on them for our power supply. What if we get attack by them? They will just need to cut off our electricity and we will be at their mercy in no time.
Also are their power station as reliable as other? You prefer to pay cheaper price and keep getting glitches or power surge every now and then or prefer to have a stable and reliable source?
Another issue is, what is their power station is down? One day of no electricity island wide in Singapore is equal to how much $$$ lost, go calculate it please.
Not all thing can be outsource. You may end up losing more then you think you are saving. -
Like I said earlier on, we already rely on them for our natural gas. What if they don't give us the natural gas? Isn't it the same as not providing us the electricity? Same problem isn't it. Don't rely on them 100%, have other contingency plans.Originally posted by strikefreedom:Put aside the cost, think about what will happen if we rely on them for our power supply. What if we get attack by them? They will just need to cut off our electricity and we will be at their mercy in no time.
Also are their power station as reliable as other? You prefer to pay cheaper price and keep getting glitches or power surge every now and then or prefer to have a stable and reliable source?
Another issue is, what is their power station is down? One day of no electricity island wide in Singapore is equal to how much $$$ lost, go calculate it please.
Not all thing can be outsource. You may end up losing more then you think you are saving.
Think nowadays can store the electricity.
From the NYMEX Natural Gas Spot Rate:
It cost like 6.37 cents/Kwh using market spot rates for natural gas with 10% process loss, whereas Singapore Power charges us 21.64 cents/Kwh. -
Originally posted by maurizio13:
We don't rely on them 100% for our power generation fuel and that not the only point i mention. I do mention abt reliability too and the loses we will suffer if there a island wide power failure.
Like I said earlier on, we already rely on them for our natural gas. What if they don't give us the natural gas? Isn't it the same as not providing us the electricity? Same problem isn't it. Don't rely on them 100%, have other contingency plans.
Think nowadays can store the electricity.
[b]From the NYMEX Natural Gas Spot Rate:
It cost like 6.37 cents/Kwh using market spot rates for natural gas with 10% process loss, whereas Singapore Power charges us 21.64 cents/Kwh. [/b]
But there are things that we cannot outsource to other countries as it will put us in a totally disadvantage position. Fuel we can always buy from other source if they refuse to sell us.
Unless you can say they provide as good reliablity as what we getting at present, and you can be 100% sure that there won't be aggression by them, then this is nothing but a mindless rant. -
Do you know that Singapore Power has a "Return On Equity" of 26%?
Means if you have $100 capital invested in the business, you get a return of $26 at the end of the year.
KNN which stock market can give this kind of return for such low a risk? -
Power failure is due to cable damage done excessive digging due to road works.Originally posted by strikefreedom:We don't rely on them 100% for our power generation fuel and that not the only point i mention. I do mention abt reliability too and the loses we will suffer if there a island wide power failure.
Unless you can say they provide as good reliablity as what we getting at present, and you can be 100% sure that there won't be aggression by them, then this is nothing but a mindless rant.
As the electricity can be store, we should be able to store sufficient amount to provide for such contingencies.
All the major power failure you see here is due to the Singapore Power's fault, the substation overload, something they didn't service broke.
The Malaysian end only generate electricity.
Sometimes I think it's counterproductive also, because if Singapore Power gets cheaper electricity from Malaysia, they own't sell it to us cheap, they will still charge us the same and make more profit from it.
In this world, nobody can guarantee you anything with 100% certainty, other than death and taxes.
Anyway, don't think too linearly about the topic, the issue is not about outsourcing, it's about the exhorbitant prices Singapore Power charges Singapore citizens. What cost only 6-7 cents to produce, they sell to Singaporeans at 21.64 cents.
That's about 3 times the actual cost!!! -
Originally posted by maurizio13:
LOL tell me which company like to make a loss? If they are going to make a loss, this mean goverment need to pump in $$$ and where does this $$$ come from? It from our reserves and tax. If this goes on for the next 10 years, i can't think what will happen to our reserves that we save up so hard.
[b]Do you know that Singapore Power has a "Return On Equity" of 26%?
Means if you have $100 capital invested in the business, you get a return of $26 at the end of the year.
KNN which stock market can give this kind of return for such low a risk?[/b] -
http://investintaiwan.nat.gov.tw/en/news/200602/2006022201.html
February 22, 2006
Taiwan's household electricity price was NTD 2.35 per unit in 2005, according to the Directorate-General of Budget, Accounting and Statistics. While this is higher than the per-unit price of NTD 1.06 in China, it is lower than in many other nations. For instance, the per-unit electricity price is NTD 6.63 in Japan, NTD 4.93 in Great Britain, NTD 4.80 in France, NTD 2.80 in the United States and NTD 2.74 in South Korea.
Thermal power plants account for 73.4% of the nation's electricity generation, while nuclear power accounts for 22.5%. Nuclear power's contribution to Taiwan's total electricity output has declined 15.7% over the last 20 years.
cost of electricity per unit in
taiwan 11 cents
China 5cents
Japan 31 cents
US 13 cents
France 22 cents
Korea 13 cents
Cost of electricity in different US states
http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/cost.html -
OMG you noob. Power failure are due to many reasons not just cable been damage. LOL There no 100% reliablility, this i agree, but can they sustain the same reliability as we have at present? malaysian end oni generate electricity, does that mean that their power station will not have down time? WOW u sure got faith in them. LOL maybe they should hired u as their ambassador to promote their company.Originally posted by maurizio13:Power failure is due to cable damage done excessive digging due to road works.
As the electricity can be store, we should be able to store sufficient amount to provide for such contingencies.
All the major power failure you see here is due to the Singapore Power's fault, the substation overload, something they didn't service broke.
The Malaysian end only generate electricity.
In this world, nobody can guarantee you anything with 100% certainty, other than death and taxes. -
26% for utilities is probably too high for a sector known for stable returnsOriginally posted by strikefreedom:LOL tell me which company like to make a loss? If they are going to make a loss, this mean goverment need to pump in $$$ and where does this $$$ come from? It from our reserves and tax. If this goes on for the next 10 years, i can't think what will happen to our reserves that we save up so hard. -
Kilua,
Any explanations for this?Originally posted by maurizio13:
[b]Natural Gas Trade In The Market Without Government Subsidies.
Current Spot Price for Natural Gas NYMEX.
USD 10.77/MMbtu
1 MMbtu = 1,000,000 btu
1 Kwh = 3413 btu
1,000,000 btu / 3413 btu = 292.99 Kwh
USD 10.77 X 1.56 = SGD 16.80
which means SGD 16.80 will produce 292.99 Kwh of electricity. I am not sure what is the process loss (of if there is any) during the conversion from natural gas to electricity, but let's say it's 10%. So we end up with (292 Kwh X 90%) = 263.69 Kwh.
If you divide the cost by the 263.69 Kwh, you get:
6.37 cents/Kwh as compared to 21.64 cents/Kwh for Singapore Power
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/ngw/ngupdate.asp
We can have a process loss during conversion of up to 50% and still make a hefty profit when we sell at 15 cents/Kwh.
292.99Kwh x 50% = 146.50Kwh
SGD 16.80 / 146.50 Kwh = 11.47 cents/Kwh
[/b] -
Dun forget they have other investment in other countries too. So 26% may not be pure profit made in SingaporeOriginally posted by kilua:26% for utilities is probably too high for a sector known for stable returns