Authoritarian governance - not the best way?
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Having some foreign workers to takeover the jobs that Singaporeans shy away is alright, but having an excessive numbers of foreigners taking over all our jobs is not alright. Having a constant high influx of foreigners into the country while a majority of Singaporeans face unemployment is ridiculous.Originally posted by Gazelle:Do you have reason to believe that Singapore will be what we are today without foreign workers? Do you think we will have enough labour supply to support all FDI if we dont allow foreign labour into singapore?
Honestly you reasoning sound really pathetic and it is more like a whinner to me than somehow how is desperately looking for a job.
PS if you dont have a job, you shouldnt be wasting your parents money on a damn internet connection (broadband i believe) and wasting time here TCSS.
Whether my reasoning makes sense, or is pathetic, is not for you to pass judgement (as we are both participants in a discussion, only bystanders make impartial judgement), I wouldn't even begin to tell you what I think about you.
P.S.: You don't have the brains to make intelligent guesses, so stop making wild accusations.
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You sound more like a pot calling a kettle black, here you go telling someone to stop making assumptions about you and there you go making wild assumptions about me.Originally posted by Gazelle:1) Stop making assumption about who I am and where I came from because that has got nothing to do with this thread.
2) It really depends on the position. I will only take a 24 yr old master degree for very specialized skills and I will hire the 40 years old for his/her experience and network.
3) The biggest problem among Singaporeans who are "struggling" is not because there isnt any job opportunity for local, but rather their their proud nature, materialism and consumerism.
Aren't you a hypocrite!
I guess the ruler you use to measure yourself has different gradations from the ruler you use to measure me. -
The issues that bring about "40ish highly qualified and experienced person as a taxi driver" are very real.
Only last week, the papers published a very good article on it also and during the weekend, I happen to discuss this topic with my gf discussing our fear for our old age as well as bloodsucking government
When we about to reach the destination, the driver suddenly said "I heard your discussion and what you guys said is very true. I am one of those 40++ experienced and highly educated. I have a MBA from Virginia
Then my gf and I was like very quiet and sigh (I have no doubt abt the driver's qualification because he's speaks flawless english and carried himself very well).
What I am saying is that we do have cause to fear for our future. -
4) A survey by the China Academy of Social Sciences showed that in 2004, the wealthiest 10 percent of the population earned a per capita income of 13,332 yuan, 2.8 times higher than the national average, while the poorest 10 percent earned only 1,397 yuan, less than one-third the national average.Originally posted by Gazelle:1) For $1, your employer will pay you $0.13 (might be going up to 16 next year) into your CPF. So which mean you get a gross salary of $1.13 ($0.80 cash + $0.33 CPF)
2) I think China's consumer tax rate is as high as 15%
3) I can survive on $10 per day, why is your dad so special? Guiness Stout for lunch?
4) RM500 feeding a family? How big? which part of China?
- http://www.worldwatch.org/node/3864
Does that answer your question? Anyway we shouldn't compare, rather the question on hand is do you gazelle, honestly think that supporting a family in Singapore is so cheap? Can you understand the need to at least find a REASONABLE waged job that can help you support your family?! I am not talking about materialism here! -
1) Please quote the particular sentence which I mention ALL taxi drivers are lazy, educated and young.Originally posted by bangkokboy:1) So can you also stop making assumptions and insulting all taxi drivers as they have nothing to do with this thread? Anyway have you really attempted to talk with them or is this just an assumption?
2) Which means you still have a choice. Right? Why create this situation in the first place? Globalisation is good, but too much foreign talents to the point of it displacing locals is not good. Based on what you say, isn't it a good idea to restrict them to certain specialized vocations only?
3) I am talking about low-income families struggling. Anyway if those in the 40s are retrenched and they don't try to find a job that pays reasonably well, who will help them pay for children's upbringing, housing loans, look after their parents? The government? You? Please wake up, do you seriously feel that 1.6k is enough for those with such heavy responsibilities?
Materialism has nothing to do with basic survival. You are skirting the issue of LOW-INCOME families struggling, not some lazy young bum hoping for a higher salaried job.
2) The population of Singapore born Singaporeans is around 2.5million vs the total population of 4.48million. or which 1 million are immigrant Singaporeans. Do you also consider this as foreign talent?
3) Tell me which type of job do you think should be reserved for Singaporeans only? and why? and why not the other jobs?
4) ""Anyway if those in the 40s are retrenched and they don't try to find a job that pays reasonably well, who will help them pay for children's upbringing, housing loans, look after their parents?""
You should seek help for our government. -
Originally posted by Gazelle:
Well, change doesn't imply decrease or increase, you have a narrow perspective on issues. Don't you know that our CPF rates are subject to "changes" too.
I am wondering why you didnt quote that the following
1) 3.75% p.a. is [b]"subject to change".
2) As bonus rates are not guaranteed, the actual return may vary according to the future performance of the participating life fund.
3) What is the penalty to terminate your policy before maturity?
CPF is not an insurance, it is a compulsory saving scheme. And you can use them to pay housing, education, and investment in gold, stock and approved investment funds. Unfortunately CPF doesnt allow you to buy car, plasma, iPod, latest N series Nokia.
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Bonus rates is another issue altogether, we are talking about the interest rates.
For CPF, there are NO option to terminate your policy before maturity, meaning if need to money to save a life, you can't even withdraw.
Well, don't be deluded again by the terms coined by them, it works in essence like an insurance scheme, withdrawal only possible above retirement age, whereas, for a savings plan you can withdraw at anytime. Insurance works that way too, you put in money, you withdraw after the term matures.
We have to appreciate that the whole population is normally distributed, there are smart people, there are stupid people, doesn't mean everybody will make optimal investment decisions. What about the ones not smart enough to make such decisions? I know, we will just make the investment decision for them and profit the difference. -
Since it's on the papers, I'm more worried about the reporter/commentator who wrote that article and also the editor who allows the article to be published.Originally posted by Mid9Sun:The issues that bring about "40ish highly qualified and experienced person as a taxi driver" are very real.
Only last week, the papers published a very good article on it also and during the weekend, I happen to discuss this topic with my gf discussing our fear for our old age as well as bloodsucking government
When we about to reach the destination, the driver suddenly said "I heard your discussion and what you guys said is very true. I am one of those 40++ experienced and highly educated. I have a MBA from Virginia
Then my gf and I was like very quiet and sigh (I have no doubt abt the driver's qualification because he's very well he speaks flawless english and carried himself very well).
What I am saying is that we do have cause to fear for our future.
We have another number one coming our way.
The country with the highest education taxi driver. -
Well, the question is; is our government giving all this reality of highly educated taxi drivers, a single damn?? -
1) Please do some reading on how singapore government determine the CPF interest rate and its relation to bank interest rate and inflation.Originally posted by maurizio13:Well, change doesn't imply decrease or increase, you have a narrow perspective on issues. Don't you know that our CPF rates are subject to "changes" too.
Bonus rates is another issue altogether, we are talking about the interest rates.
For CPF, there are NO option to terminate your policy before maturity, meaning if need to money to save a life, you can't even withdraw.
Well, don't be deluded again by the terms coined by them, it works in essence like an insurance scheme, withdrawal only possible above retirement age, whereas, for a savings plan you can withdraw at anytime. Insurance works that way too, you put in money, you withdraw after the term matures.
We have to appreciate that the whole population is normally distributed, there are smart people, there are stupid people, doesn't mean everybody will make optimal investment decisions. What about the ones not smart enough to make such decisions? I know, we will just make the investment decision for them and profit the difference.
2) For CPF, if you are out of job, you dont have to pay. They will not come after you. For saving insurance policy, you need to continue your monthly pay regardless if you have money or job. If you terminate before maturity, BANG!! you pay penalty.
3) To invest or not, that is up to individual. Even if you do nothing, you are still get the 2.5%. -
1) But the thing is, you can't touch the $0.33 and they pay you low low interest rates, the issue is, we are trying to make ends meet here, if we don't have a present, do you think we have a future. We are still left with $0.76 to survive on our daily necessities.Originally posted by Gazelle:1) For $1, your employer will pay you $0.13 (might be going up to 16 next year) into your CPF. So which mean you get a gross salary of $1.13 ($0.80 cash + $0.33 CPF)
2) I think China's consumer tax rate is as high as 15%
3) I can survive on $10 per day, why is your dad so special? Guiness Stout for lunch?
4) RM500 feeding a family? How big? which part of China?
2) What kind of items do they charge 15%? Which city? Where did you get your data?
3) Sighs. Do you understand English? My original post attached.
"When foreigners remit money back to their country like China, SGD 100 translates to RMB 500, you can feed a family with that, you can't even feed your dad 10 days with that."
4) 2 Parents 2 Kids, Tianjin. -
AhhhOriginally posted by ShutterBug:Well, the question is; is our government giving all this reality of highly educated taxi drivers, a single damn??
I think I knew why they weren't given a damn, they must have voted for the opposition during any GEs -
I have no idea, why don't you find the information and show me.Originally posted by Gazelle:CPF interest rate is not fixed and the government will adjust it according to the inflation rate. If you dont mind, can you tell us last time the CPF interest rate was below inflation rate?
Inflation rate is just the minimum where you don't make a gain or a loss, there is no gain in real money. -
3) Doesn't this show you that there is a problem with our government policies? The government shapes the young minds, if they grow up being 'proud, materialistic and consumeristic', doesn't this prove that there is a failure of their policies.Originally posted by Gazelle:1) Stop making assumption about who I am and where I came from because that has got nothing to do with this thread.
2) It really depends on the position. I will only take a 24 yr old master degree for very specialized skills and I will hire the 40 years old for his/her experience and network.
3) The biggest problem among Singaporeans who are "struggling" is not because there isnt any job opportunity for local, but rather their their proud nature, materialism and consumerism. -
I dont need to look into the details. I can assure you the interest rate will definitely be better than your normal saving interest you get from your banks.Originally posted by maurizio13:I have no idea, why don't you find the information and show me.
Inflation rate is just the minimum where you don't make a gain or a loss, there is no gain in real money.
btw, bank rate is currently below 1% is think. -
1) How about you then? How about your implication that the biggest problem among Singaporeans who are "struggling" is their their proud nature, materialism and consumerism? Are you being fair to them? Who is making the sweeping statements here?Originally posted by Gazelle:1) Please quote the particular sentence which I mention ALL taxi drivers are lazy, educated and young.
2) The population of Singapore born Singaporeans is around 2.5million vs the total population of 4.48million. or which 1 million are immigrant Singaporeans. Do you also consider this as foreign talent?
3) Tell me which type of job do you think should be reserved for Singaporeans only? and why? and why not the other jobs?
4) ""Anyway if those in the 40s are retrenched and they don't try to find a job that pays reasonably well, who will help them pay for children's upbringing, housing loans, look after their parents?""
You should seek help for our government.
2) You answered your own question. 1 million are immigrant Singaporeans.
3) Even Thailand has strict labour laws that restrict foreigners on a case-by-case basis. If the same job can be handled by a Thai, the company is NOT ALLOWED to employ that foreigner. Only qualified foreigners can be employed as a last resort when suitable local candidates cannot be found. Why can't it be on a case-by-case basis. IF THE COMPANY REALLY NEEDS A FOREIGN TALENT THEN BY ALL MEANS GO APPLY A PERMIT FOR HIM.
The truth is that since a cheaper alternative is available, let's all go for it. Simple as ABC.
4) Yeah that is a good idea. Maybe we can all go upgrade our skills... fantastic idea by the government. How about trying to solve the core of the issue instead? Infact the best way the government can think of now is... increase the bl**dy GST! Now that's a winner!!! -
Who says Garment don't give a damn about Taxi drivers, they don't stop them from working as Taxi drivers if they still pass their health checks before 73 years old.
Can you ask the employers to continue hiring you even if you are older and still have lots of bills and loans to repay? And you are not asking for a raise or anything, just a job.
As usual, the job candidates from overseas consists of better and more elaborate certificates. Some of which doesn't come with relevant working experience.
Why continue to accumulate "disbursement liabilities" when you can get rid of old staff to hire fresh blood which the management can have more power over? -
Like restricting communication and like North Koreans, so that Singaporeans will not know what Paris Hilton is wearing and what who Brad Pitt is marrying?Originally posted by maurizio13:3) Doesn't this show you that there is a problem with our government policies? The government shapes the young minds, if they grow up being "proud, materialistic and consumeristic", doesn't this prove that there is a failure of their policies.
Honestly this is all up to individual and there is nothing the government can do about it. -
Mmh I can take out money from the bank....Originally posted by Gazelle:I dont need to look into the details. I can assure you the interest rate will definitely be better than your normal saving interest you get from your banks.
btw, bank rate is currently below 1% is think.
My friend wrote in recently to the board of CPF, he needed money to further his studies and asked to use his father's CPF. His father will be collecting his CPF next year. The board rejected him outright, even after he volunteered to return the CPF monthly at an interest rates.
Is our government really so inflexible? Own money but can't help pay for son's education. I find it sad.
*personal views* - don't bomb me with all the CPF rules n regulation crap. -
Originally posted by bangkokboy:
1) Quote me a real life example about someone you know that is REALLY struggling.
1) How about you then? How about your implication that the biggest problem among Singaporeans who are "struggling" is their their proud nature, materialism and consumerism? Are you being fair to them? Who is making the sweeping statements here?
2) You answered your own question. 1 million are immigrant [b]Singaporeans.
3) Even Thailand has strict labour laws that restrict foreigners on a case-by-case basis. If the same job can be handled by a Thai, the company is NOT ALLOWED to employ that foreigner. Only qualified foreigners can be employed as a last resort when suitable local candidates cannot be found. Why can't it be on a case-by-case basis. IF THE COMPANY REALLY NEEDS A FOREIGN TALENT THEN BY ALL MEANS GO APPLY A PERMIT FOR HIM.
The truth is that since a cheaper alternative is available, let's all go for it. Simple as ABC.
4) Yeah that is a good idea. Maybe we can all go upgrade our skills... fantastic idea by the government. How about trying to solve the core of the issue instead? Infact the best way the government can think of now is... increase the bl**dy GST! Now that's a winner!!!
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2) So you classified a foreigners that comes to singapore to find a job and subsequently become a singapore as OK. While foreign worker is not?
3) If we are going to practise protectionism to restrict cheaper labour, I can assure you that 50% of the SME will move to JB. -
1) How much CPF does his father has for retirementOriginally posted by bangkokboy:Mmh I can take out money from the bank....
My friend wrote in recently to the board of CPF, he needed money to further his studies and asked to use his father's CPF. His father will be collecting his CPF next year. The board rejected him outright, even after he volunteered to return the CPF monthly at an interest rates.
Is our government really so inflexible? Own money but can't help pay for son's education. I find it sad.
*personal views* - don't bomb me with all the CPF rules n regulation crap.
2) What kind of futher education. Local, overseas?
3) Did you friend ask the CPF or did his Dad ask CPF for his children education?
PS. there are so many cases where the son take away all their parents money and then split with his wife. Doesnt that sound familiar? -
1) Lol as if you will know that person. Are you going to help him? If yes I can give you his tel number, name and even address. I will even send you his father's operation fees. If you are not please don't ask such dumb questions ok?Originally posted by Gazelle:1) Quote me a real life example about someone you know that is REALLY struggling.
2) So you classified a foreigners that comes to singapore to find a job and subsequently become a singapore as OK. While foreign worker is not?
3) If we are going to practise protectionism to restrict cheaper labour, I can assure you that 50% of the SME will move to JB.
2) If he is coming here with the intention to settle down then I am not going to be a biase pig. I am not anti-foreign talent. But please keep it LOW!
3) I am not restricting cheaper labour. I suggested that only qualified foreigners can be employed as a last resort when suitable local candidates cannot be found. I am not talking about unskilled labour, I am talking about skilled labor.
I CAN ALSO ASSURE YOU THAT 90% OF THOSE IN DEVELOPING COUNTRIES WILL ACCEPT LESS PAY THAN THAT OF SINGAPOREANS. How will you complete? Explain? -
1) Exact amount not sure, is there any difference?Originally posted by Gazelle:1) How much CPF does his father has for retirement
2) What kind of futher education. Local, overseas?
3) Did you friend ask the CPF or did his Dad ask CPF for his children education?
PS. there are so many cases where the son take away all their parents money and then split with his wife. Doesnt that sound familiar?
2) Local education.
3) My friend ask his Dad for help with the fees, Dad thought of CPF as last alternative. Dad wrote in to CPF. Now my friend is studying part-time. Help ownself better, wait for government die leow.
PS: My friend is paying the school fees upfront, documented with receipt and all. He is not using it to spend on women, gadgets. -
1) I am very keen to know why are they struggling and to what extent are they strugglingOriginally posted by bangkokboy:1) Lol as if you will know that person. Are you going to help him? If yes I can give you his tel number, name and even address. I will even send you his mother's operation fees. If you are not please don't ask such dumb questions ok?
2) If he is coming here with the intention to settle down then I am not going to be a biase pig. I am not anti-foreign talent. But please keep it LOW!
3) I am not restricting cheaper labour. I suggested that only qualified foreigners can be employed as a last resort when suitable local candidates cannot be found. I am not talking about unskilled labour, I am talking about skilled labor.
I CAN ALSO ASSURE YOU THAT 90% OF THOSE IN DEVELOPING COUNTRIES WILL ACCEPT LESS PAY THAN THAT OF SINGAPOREANS. How will you complete? Explain?
2) I have to warn you that the no. of these immigrant Singapore are not small, and they will be a bigger threat to Singaporeans than PRs because they are entitle to benefits and they are so much more hungrier and hardworking.
3) Those labour intensive industry that relies on cheap labour has already left this country and they are now in Vietnam China and Indonesia etc. Havent you realise that Singapore is moving away for low value added job and going toward more hi-tech and value added industry. Why are you still stuck in the hole of comparing Singapore wages to developing country like China? -
Ok if you insist. A's family used to do ok. Father has a job, mother's a housewife, he's in Uni 1st year and sister in Sec school. Untill one day his father lost his job. Still ok right? But guess it came of a shock to his father. Father got stroke or something like that.Originally posted by Gazelle:1) Quote me a real life example about someone you know that is REALLY struggling.
Oops how about the housing loan? Shucks, mums decided to go work but can't find any job since she is not educated. No choice but to settle for a job at kopitiam. I don't think kopitiams offer much do they?
Father's medical fees. His's uni fees. Sister school fees. Housing loan.
As for the rest I am not sure anymore as I have not heard about him since. He dropped out of uni.
There are many more real life examples. All you need to do is to go out and see and hear with your own eyes and ears. Stop living in your own perfect little world. -
2) LOL so you do know about the threats. I am not anti-foreign talent, but that does not make me pro-foreign talent.Originally posted by Gazelle:1) I am very keen to know why are they struggling and to what extent are they struggling
2) I have to warn you that the no. of these immigrant Singapore are not small, and they will be a bigger threat to Singaporeans than PRs because they are entitle to benefits and they are so much more hungrier and hardworking.
3) Those labour intensive industry that relies on cheap labour has already left this country and they are now in Vietnam China and Indonesia etc. Havent you realise that Singapore is moving away for low value added job and going toward more hi-tech and value added industry. Why are you still stuck in the hole of comparing Singapore wages to developing country like China?
3) They have been long gone. I am not comparing wages in such superficial manner my dear friend!! I am asking once again, if a SKILLED, I stress again SKILLED engineer from XYZ country come to singapore asking for <1.6k, how do you think locals can compete!??!?!?!? Any tom, dick or harry manager will know the cheaper the labor the better!
Highly skilled for God's sake! SKILLED LABOR YOU UNDERSTAND? Who ever mentioned about low value added job? Does an IT engineer from India make it a low value added job?