Authoritarian governance - not the best way?
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1) I can assure you that Singaporeans voted for the PAP not because we have a good government. It's just that the opposition's quality is suspect too.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:1) NPNT...btw, if you continue this line of argument, you can be sure that the Opposition will always lose. Who dares to vote for them in future? Shooting yourself in both feet?
2) The Opposition parties voted AGAINST HDB upgrading when it was first proposed by the government. If you vote for them, you indicate that you prefer their policies. So why kpkb when you don't have the upgrading you were against in the first place? Sheer hypocrisy
3) Ya...afraid that the racists in Opposition parties will damage the social cohesion of the nation. Why do you think it was the minority vote in marginal constituencies that tilted the balance in favour of PAP during the last Election? With GRCs, they have a voice. If the Opposition runs the show, there may not be a single minority MP in Parliament unless minorities group together geographically.We do not want ghettos divided by race and religion in Singapore.
4) Tell me one party that does not offer sweets if you vote for them? It's politics, silly. The policies introduced after the election are not studpid, they are designed to help the poor. You people talk alot about helping the poor but do nothing. Unlike Opposition parties who can only rant about it, the government is doing something active to get the funds to help them.
5) are you sure that every singaporeans voted?
You know well the reason why many could not vote was because of the walkovers. This is the most ridiculous of all. If you cannot even find enough people to stand for election, do you expect to find people to vote for you? If Opposition party supporters are not convinced by their own policies to stand for election, how can you convince your voters?
Next you will be saying that the government should help Opposition Parties get elected into Parliament
I have to admit that the opposition also has itself to blame. However, to find voices of disillusioned Singaporeans, just look at Ang Mo Kio, a bunch of newcomers and they gathered how many percentage of the votes?
Accept the fact, the new generation of opposition is better and not some crackpot like CSJ. We need better oppositions. With more funds, PAP is able to attract better people through better prospects, but this are not necessary people who serves in the best interest of the people.
2) If I voted against the PAP does it mean I don't have to pay 7% GST? Do I get to pay less taxes? If I pay less taxes than go ahead, count me out of the upgrading (not that I need one). Please explain.
3) Don't you know Singapore is divided? You so called Elites and us ghetto dwelling people who unfortunately is able to point out dumb and questionable points brought up by you so call fake elites. I assume you are at best an arrogant ignorant government puppet.
4) Haha. I hope everyone bear in minds that following the sweets is a brutal caning. I ask you again how does a 7% help the poor? Are they really being helped? Can you give me examples? If it really helps the poor then why can't you explain it to me? Don't give me the help the poor crap, I don't see the people around me being helped in anyway. What policies are there in place? MOST IMPORTANTLY, WHAT ARE THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS? Please understand they do not help the lower income, they only help the poverty strickened... many are not proverty strickened, so they fall out of the bracket.
5) And be sued? Singapore is not exactly a good place to be an opposition. Look at the recent issues on Wee Shu Min, just because her dad is a MIW means that her dad can say anything. Opposition? Be prepared to get sued and condemned. I think gomez's has better morals than Mr Wee who is just a hypocrite who looks down on the very people he is supposed to be serving. A hypocrite is on the same level as a cheat (if not worse).
I replied to you arrogant people not because I want to win an argument, I want you PAP zombies to know that everything is not what it seems. You want statistics? Go ask around.
(self edited. let's not get personal and stick with the issues on hand.) -
They have droven me away that is for sure. Now I am creating jobs for people in Thailand and helping their economy. I know you are going to insult me by telling me Singapore don't need me, but judging from what I have read, THE PEOPLE OF SINGAPORE don't need (self edited. let's not get personal but stick with the issue on hand.)Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Because that 5000 are the high income earners who provide jobs for the other 100,000 people. If you drive them away with direct taxation, that 100,000 will lose their jobs and you will also lose the $100 from the 5000 who have left.
pei le fu ren yiu zhe bing -
It's never to late to learn. You guys would really do well to warn me, send me a PM at least.Originally posted by pinkish purple papayas:Glad that i learnt my lesson earliar.
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Unless of course the person starts getting personal and starts calling names for which I detest...Originally posted by Gazelle:Why dont your bring us back to the issues you wish to discuss instead of barking like some crazy bi.tch in heat.
The dog barks. If not for oxford I would like to think we have seen the last of your barking. Or whining for that matter... Stop hiding behind others. I've notice that your barking ceases, only to surface again when oxford makes some points.
OK. That's all from me. Time to go, afterall you guys are from the HIGHER ECHELON of the society while I am from the sewers. Nothing more to discuss with you.
PS: this thread is getting personal, let's close it? -
Originally posted by bangkokboy:
Why do you give credit to others when they are not due for any?
The dog barks. If not for oxford I would like to think we have seen the last of your barking. Or whining for that matter... Stop hiding behind others. I've notice that your barking ceases, only to surface again when oxford makes some points.
OK. That's all from me. Time to go, afterall you guys are from the HIGHER ECHELON of the society while I am from the sewers. Nothing more to discuss with you.
[b]If you wish to insult me, just PM me, don't insult the poor. The poor has done nothing. If insulting me makes your inflated egos feel better, just go ahead and rant. But again leave others out of it.[/b]
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Originally posted by bangkokboy:
I would suggest not talking to animals and dogs, no point, at the end of the day they will still be barking around in circles. I have learnt my lesson.
The dog barks. If not for oxford I would like to think we have seen the last of your barking. Or whining for that matter... Stop hiding behind others. I've notice that your barking ceases, only to surface again when oxford makes some points.
OK. That's all from me. Time to go, afterall you guys are from the HIGHER ECHELON of the society while I am from the sewers. Nothing more to discuss with you.
[b]If you wish to insult me, just PM me, don't insult the poor. The poor has done nothing. If insulting me makes your inflated egos feel better, just go ahead and rant. But again leave others out of it.[/b]
Be kind to animals and dogs!!! -
For your information, Melbourne has a large asian population. Just shows how ignorant you are. Caucasians are just as human as asians. Are you being racist here? So they don't deserve healthcare just because they are white?Originally posted by Gazelle:Dont put words into my mouth dude, I am just reacting to fymk posting.
And why should I care is some nurses prefer to be serving some white cunt country?
Just surprised that you suddenly appear again - nice MC PACKAGE for 1 day eh?
Don't cry when you lose your job to a foreign talent - talk is cheap until you are at the poor end . Empty vessels , like tin cans especially with drumming, makes the most noise. -
I suggest closing the thread, too much name calling here. Anyone agree?
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haha...name calling is the calling card of Opposition party supporters here. To stop name calling, it would be easier to just ban maurizio13. Who started calling people dogs?Originally posted by bangkokboy:I suggest closing the thread, too much name calling here. Anyone agree? -
So I assume all PAP supporters are angels? Haha you will do well to check gazelle's post.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:haha...name calling is the calling card of Opposition party supporters here. To stop name calling, it would be easier to just ban maurizio13. Who started calling people dogs? '
Anyway where is that coward? -
Do post more often Oxford, that is the only way we will see gazelle here. He needs your help.
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However, to find voices of disillusioned Singaporeans, just look at Ang Mo Kio, a bunch of newcomers and they gathered how many percentage of the votes?
There will always be those who disagree with a policy, whether it comes from the ruling or Opposition parties. These people will oppose the PAP regardless of who is representing the party. I have a feeling that many of those who voted for the opposition have never even heard of the candidate. Rather than a mark of affirmation, the results demonstrate the displeasure of some voters. But nobody disputes that. There is an increasing minority of people who oppose the government's policies, although the majority supports them.If I voted against the PAP does it mean I don't have to pay 7% GST? Do I get to pay less taxes? If I pay less taxes than go ahead, count me out of the upgrading (not that I need one). Please explain.
Your taxes go to fund the government's operating budget. Funding for upgrading comes from budget SURPLUS arising from good management by the ruling party. As to how this surplus should be used, PAP wants to use it to upgrade HDB flats, the Opposition parties are against it. So why ask for it when you have been opposing it in Parliament in the first place? What credibility is there?
P/S. the government had already clarified that they are not against the principle of upgrading flats in Opposition wards. It's about priority. It does not make sense that those who opposed the government's upgrading policy should ironically get it before those who supported it.
It's about treating supporters of Opposition Parties well, but treat supporters of the ruling party better.Don't you know Singapore is divided? You so called Elites and us ghetto dwelling people who unfortunately is able to point out dumb and questionable points brought up by you so call fake elites. I assume you are at best an arrogant ignorant government puppet.
Resort to calling names when you cannot win an argument. All so typical....I ask you again how does a 7% help the poor? Are they really being helped? Can you give me examples? If it really helps the poor then why can't you explain it to me?
Details will be announced in the next Budget as to how the additional revenue generated will be used to help the poor. As it is, the ministers have mentioned that part of it will go towards payment for revised workfare packages that will improve the pay of low income earners who remain in work.And be sued? Singapore is not exactly a good place to be an opposition.
You won't get sued if you do not go against the law. What has the MP said that is defamatory? On the other hand, Opposition party members time and again have made defamatory remarks, daring government officials to take them to court. -
you should get banned also for posting that websites like sgforums.com should be closed down by the gahmen.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:haha...name calling is the calling card of Opposition party supporters here. To stop name calling, it would be easier to just ban maurizio13. Who started calling people dogs? -
The famous Oxford Bulldog!!!
Has been known on occasions to impersonate highly dignified lawyers. But most of the time it just barks nonsense for it's master.
http://www.photographersdirect.com/buyers/stockphoto.asp?imageid=730186
Awww....isn't it cute......
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
This reminds me of another George Bernard Shaw's quote
Be kind to animals and dogs!!![/b]
"Animals are my friend. I don't eat my friend"
--George Bernard Shaw -
First before you start calling me an opposition stooge, I would like to point out that critical as I am of some of the governmentÂ’s policy, I am agreeable to others.
So before you start branding me as a opposition stooge, I would like to reiterate that I am not one... I do not disagree blindly. On the other hand, people who agrees blindly without a hoot with what is REALLY happening out there, now that's what I call a... yes you guessed it, a stooge, a puppet, what have you.
There is an increasing minority of people who oppose the government's policies, although the majority supports them.
Support for policies that come after the election? I clearly cannot see how they can support such policies? Perhaps most Singaporeans have the gift of the foresight. Unfortunately I do not possess such gifts but I did have a feeling that hikes were forthcoming AFTER the election. If you want to argue that the majority supports the government policies, I would strongly urge the government to hold the elections AFTER the policies are implemented.
Indeed with budget giveaways before elections, cowed media, PAP threats to withhold STATE funding from opposition constituencies, and what some Singaporeans call the "fear factor", I find it hard to agree that the election is fair, let alone come to the conclusion that “the majority supports them.’’P/S. the government had already clarified that they are not against the principle of upgrading flats in Opposition wards. It's about priority. It does not make sense that those who opposed the government's upgrading policy should ironically get it before those who supported it.
The overwhelming feeling is that upgrading uses PUBLIC MONEY, which should be used equally for all Singaporeans and not to blackmail voters for one partyÂ’s gain.
It's about treating supporters of Opposition Parties well, but treat supporters of the ruling party better.
With such wonderful policies, an elite team plucked from SingaporeÂ’s intellects, why does the Government need to resort to this as a political tool? Are those in Potong Pasir not Singaporeans too? Or maybe they should be exiled and cordoned off, never to be mentioned again. In fact I have a great idea. Why not only upgrade HDB units of those who voted for the government? Free false ceilings and cornices included.
Voting should be fair. Citizens should not be punished for their votes. Would you vote for the opposition knowing that you will be punished for your decision? It might not be capital punishment, but nonetheless still a punishment. In my humble opinion, it is tantamount to a threat.Resort to calling names when you cannot win an argument. All so typical....
I respond in kind. Tit-for-tat.
You may have the right to accuse me of name calling, but please acknowledge that you are no better. In fact you started calling me names first, am I not a sewer dweller? Thank you for calling me that. Anyway you have no evidence what-so-ever that you have ‘won’’ the argument. Is that not a sign of arrogance? I would take it as a sign of elitism… or are you just plain ignorant to the views of others? I take it as all of the above. If you can assume, so can I.As it is, the ministers have mentioned that part of it will go towards payment for revised workfare packages that will improve the pay of low income earners who remain in work.
To this I have no comment as they have not release any info yet. I do not, like most Singaporeans, possess the gift of foreseeing the governmentÂ’s policies.You won't get sued if you do not go against the law. What has the MP said that is defamatory?
I must agree that the opposition party member in question has it coming. Prior to this election, the quality of our opposition is indeed suspect. I wouldnÂ’t be surprise with the lack of votes for the opposition. Singaporeans must not vote blindly, with such questionable characters as opposition candidates, I would be hard-pressed to vote for them too.
Likewise, the MIW member in question also is a questionable character. He did not make any defamatory remarks, but rather agrees on and (indirectly) implies with demeaning accusations against the lower-income groups. I would see this as a black mark on his values, the values of being in the government, which is to serve the people. Perhaps he could be arrested for sedition should he be an opposition memberÂ… for incitement of unrest amongst the elites and the commoners? Then again, I do not possess the power of foresight, but rather this is just my ramblingÂ… -
7% is too much to help the poor la... In fact, wat percentage of the pple in sg is defined at the Poor?
I dun tink the guy that jumped MRT would qualify for the definition of the Poor in sg... Most of us belonged to the middle income grp which is squeezed most...
If u look at most of my postings... I agree wif most of the RP's policies... But their reason for the GST hike is BULL to me... I tink is for(really) civil servants' pay rise and bonus...
This is in a way gd becoz u dun juz tell ur children to be lawyers, doctors, businessmen like wat my mum used to tell me... U can bring them up as the country's Leaders as well~!!!!!!!
Afterall, milliondollar career u know? -
http://www.sfdonline.org/sfd/Link%20Pages/Link%20Folders/Human%20Rights/repealisa.htmlOriginally posted by oxford mushroom:You won't get sued if you do not go against the law. What has the MP said that is defamatory? On the other hand, Opposition party members time and again have made defamatory remarks, daring government officials to take them to court.
ISA is one creative way of controlling people.
http://www.escapefromparadise.com/NewFiles/seow.html
Another is to give the people stigma to declare them mentally unstable -
Bangkokboy
If OM says Singapore is as good as it is , he is in fact actually in UK practicing there...am I not wrong OM? Why don't OM come back to Singapore then?
Do you see something wrong with the picture? Gazelle is in Singapore and we know he is in blind defense of the policies because it serves his purpose somehow. However should he fall into the category of needy in the future, we will see him drumming a different tune.
OM is abit too pro government when he is supposedly in the UK instead of staying in Singapore. Smells of a rat somewhere. -
I think because defending gazelle's comments helps him to practise... The more absurd the comments made by Gazelle, the more interesting it is for Oxford Mushroom...Originally posted by fymk:Bangkokboy
If OM says Singapore is as good as it is , he is in fact actually in UK practicing there...am I not wrong OM? Why don't OM come back to Singapore then?
Do you see something wrong with the picture? Gazelle is in Singapore and we know he is in blind defense of the policies because it serves his purpose somehow. However should he fall into the category of needy in the future, we will see him drumming a different tune.
OM is abit too pro government when he is supposedly in the UK instead of staying in Singapore. Smells of a rat somewhere.
Anyway now that I know that Oxford belongs to the so-called higher income group, it is not so difficult to see why his comments are so disconnected from the harsh reality that is facing the lower income – middle income groups.
Policies that are theoretically sound are not equivalent to policies that actually work. Indeed results speak for themselves, not some legal and accounting mambo jumbo. Theoretically these policies can help, but in reality it is another story. -
maybe they are both brothers in real life..Originally posted by bangkokboy:I think because defending gazelle's comments helps him to practise... The more absurd the comments made by Gazelle, the more interesting it is for Oxford Mushroom... -
Can anybody tell me what kind of person tells you that,
"I just spend 10 grand on a HT system and on top of that I also bought my dad 2K worth of wine and I just got my wife a 10K watch, plus we are going for a holiday at pimalia resort at krabi which is going to cost us $1200 per night."???
A person who lacks confidence, therefore he needs material needs to justify his status and position?
You don't see Bill Gates going around telling people how much he has just spent on his yacht or plane.
You might be rich in wealth, but poor in soul and spirit. -
Originally posted by maurizio13:
Wow who said that?
Can anybody tell me what kind of person tells you that,
"I just spend 10 grand on a HT system and on top of that I also bought my dad 2K worth of wine and I just got my wife a 10K watch, plus we are going for a holiday at pimalia resort at krabi which is going to cost us $1200 per night."???
A person who lacks confidence, therefore he needs material needs to justify his status and position?
You don't see Bill Gates going around telling people how much he has just spent on his yacht or plane.
You might be rich in wealth, but poor in soul and spirit. -
One of the 2 brothers.Originally posted by bangkokboy:Wow who said that? -
Tsk tsk tsk..putting words into my mouth eh? Well, what to expect from you lot...Originally posted by 4getmenot:you should get banned also for posting that websites like sgforums.com should be closed down by the gahmen.
I have never asked sgforums.com to be closed down, why should I when I come by so often? Rather a warning to you people that posting defamatory remarks here will render the website liable for prosecution as well, if the aggrieved party wishes to seek legal redress.