Falungong is not a cult
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Originally posted by elindra:
its amazing how many suckers exist in our world. so join vito-ism today! %500 initiation fee and $1000 monthly membership, freedom of belief guaranteed. its so zen and modern, right?
I'm even more surprised that you believe someone who is a a former government grain department clerk and amateur trumpet player claims the following:
1. Started self-cultivation at the age of four.
2. By the age of eight, he claims to have levitated and to have been able to control the actions of his playmates by the power of his thoughts alone.
3. He claims to have been instructed by anything from two to twenty 'Masters in the Mountains', and to be an enlightened being on a par with Buddha and Jesus.
4. In September 1994, he officially changed his birthdate from 7 July, 1952 to 13 May, 1951, a date celebrated as the Buddha's birthday.
5. He can personally heal diseases
6. He writes that practitioners truly adhering to the Zhen-Shan-Ren principle of the universe won't be hurt as much when hit by speeding cars as they otherwise would. (Yeah they won't hurt so much coz they are already dead
)
7. He claims demons and extraterrestrials are everywhere
8. He claims that Africa has a two-billion-year-old nuclear reactor.
Too many other claims to list
But to quote what he every said before
'...No being knows who I am...
...Where did I come from then? I came from the inside and from the outside.
I came from nothing and formed into something.
I appeared at the pinnacle of the colossal firmament, and from there I descended into the uppermost surface of the Three Realms step by step...
...I came to the lowest level...in order to...save all sentient beings...
...Master has gathered the lives of all of the cosmos's sentient beings and various elements into his body...
[b]...I have paid back all the sins committed by all sentient beings in the Three Realms...
...I really bore for you the sins that you have committed over hundreds and thousands of years... He thinks he is Jesus??
...I will also offer you salvation and turn you into Gods...
...Since the beginning of time, not a single God had dared to do this, and such a thing had never occurred...' (Zhuan Falun).
Hey not bad for a human. He claims he can turn people into gods and that is like a notch above Jesus
Everything here is from the BBC link I posted[/b] -
Originally posted by vito_corleone:its amazing how many suckers exist in our world. so join vito-ism today! %500 initiation fee and $1000 monthly membership, freedom of belief guaranteed. its so zen and modern, right?
Best part is that the believers are alarmed that how can we not believe -
It is no free lunch in this world!!!! m I get u rite?sound familiar like PAP!!!Originally posted by vito_corleone:its amazing how many suckers exist in our world. so join vito-ism today! %500 initiation fee and $1000 monthly membership, freedom of belief guaranteed. its so zen and modern, right?
nomore,wat is yr answer? -
Wrong. Millions.Originally posted by NUS_Superst@r:I-Kuan Tao is also a cult but still have thousands of followers. Sigh.
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Originally posted by elindra:
Before I reply to this thread, I feel I own everybody an explanation. I am here not to preach or even convert anybody to Falungong. It had never being my original intention. Such spiritual matters to a very large extent are decided by fate. And true to what the Bear had said, everybody have a right to believe in what they want. Why should I try to convert anybody if in their heart they have no desires to do so? Thus, my intention is to tell the true side of the story and remove some of the harm done by propagandas upon innocent and normally kind hearted people. Thats all. There is no other agenda.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A2922644
Extracts from the above website:
Li's Personal Beliefs
Nonetheless,[b] despite his insistence on tolerance, some of his views, on homosexuality, for instance, are decidedly unforgiving.
'The disgusting homosexuality shows the dirty abnormal psychology of the gay who has lost his ability of reasoning at the present times.'
In a 1998 talk in Switzerland, Li said gay people would be 'eliminated' by 'the gods'. Asked in Frankfurt, Germany, that year whether gays could practice Falun Gong, Li answered, to a round of applause, 'You can cultivate, but you must give up the bad conduct'.
On mixed-race marriage his views are similarly intolerant, as he sees such deviance as evidence of alien interference. Li also regards mixed-race or 'cross-bred' people as rootless and deviant, a sign of morally bankrupt times. Mixed-race people are a plot by the evil extraterrestrials who populate his cosmology, which spills over with accounts of lost civilisations, higher realms and mysteries that science cannot grasp.
'By mixing the races of humans, the aliens make humans cast off gods,' he is quoted as saying in a lecture in Switzerland.
In an interview with Time Magazine Asia, 10 May, 1999, he was quite specific about the role of aliens in the present troubled times.
TIME: Why does chaos reign now?
Li: Of course there is not just one reason. The biggest cause of society's change today is that people no longer believe in orthodox religion. They go to church, but they no longer believe in god. They feel free to do anything. The second reason is that since the beginning of this century, aliens have begun to invade the human mind and its ideology and culture.
TIME: Where do they come from?
Li: The aliens come from other planets. The names that I use for these planets are different. Some are from dimensions that human beings have not yet discovered. The key is how they have corrupted mankind. Everyone knows that from the beginning until now, there has never been a development of culture like today. Although it has been several thousand years, it has never been like now.
The aliens have introduced modern machinery like computers and aeroplanes. They started by teaching mankind about modern science, so people believe more and more science, and spiritually, they are controlled. Everyone thinks that scientists invent on their own when in fact their inspiration is manipulated by the aliens. In terms of culture and spirit, they already control man. Mankind cannot live without science.
The ultimate purpose is to replace humans. If cloning human beings succeeds, the aliens can officially replace humans. Why does a corpse lie dead, even though it is the same as a living body? The difference is the soul, which is the life of the body. If people reproduce a human person, the gods in heaven will not give its body a human soul. The aliens will take that opportunity to replace the human soul and by doing so they will enter earth and become earthlings. When such people grow up, they will help replace humans with aliens. They will produce more and more clones. There will no longer be humans reproduced by humans. They will act like humans, but they will introduce legislation to stop human reproduction.
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Elindra had quoted a very interesting article about Master Li Hongzhi. Although I feel that my reply will not satisfy most people, this is the best I can give. I can ensure you that I am not taking the easy way out by giving this answer.
This is very similar to the case of sameul Lo's stepfather. People concentrate on the few death case while ignoring the fact that many people had their illness cured miraculously. This interview is a very small part of Falungong essence. In order to understand this, you need to have a foundation of knowledge on the other areas of Falungong. Talks of aliens whatsoever will sound out of the comos for any people who have no foundation in basic Falungong knowledge. Won't university maths seem out of the world when you are ignorant of primary school maths? The same theory applies. I have to conclude by saying this. What Master Li is saying is not what you are thinking.
Again I am not preaching, but the answer is in Zhuan Falun.
By the way Master Li Hongzhi had never being intolerant of homosexuals and mixed blood. These people are also accepted as Falungong practitioners. -
No it's not based on Buddhism. Although it tries to incorporate certain aspect of Buddhist teachings (it tries to incorporate some other religions' teachings as well), Falungong itself has little basis in Buddhism. Falungong's Li Hongzhi also never claimed that Falungong is Buddhism.Originally posted by fymk:TS , cut the crap out - it is based on buddhism that makes it a cult . I am no supporter of CCP because I know how they control religion in china but when it comes to Falungong , why don't u answer my questions about it then?
Anyway what you mean by Falungong is based on Buddhism that makes it a cult?
That's Falungong's viewpoint, not Buddhism. As far as Buddhism is concerned the teachings of Falungong does not lead to liberation and enlightenment.Originally posted by no more:Maybe fymk is confused ( no offense meant) between Buddhism and the school of Buddhist laws( in chinese called Fo Fa). Buddhism refers to the religion founded in India by Lord Buddha. Lord Buddha himself had stated that there are 84000 methods to attain enlightenment in the Buddhist way. Lord BuddhaÂ’s way, which is one of the way is present day Buddhism. Falungong is also one of the 84000 methods. They are classified under the same family because of similar attributes but they are absolutely different methods. -
Nope. I had never pay a single cent before. I being encouraged to learn and be rational.Originally posted by vito_corleone:side effects include surrendering your money, sanity and what's not to your charismatic leader aka genius who managed to trick these nimwits into beliving his crap, and possiby become a sex toy if you're female.
What you have described are real characterisitics of cults. Fortunately none are present in Falungong. -
no comments on this one, dun know enuff to comment bout it..
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Good!!!!Originally posted by no more:Nope. I had never pay a single cent before. I being encouraged to learn and be rational.
What you have described are real characterisitics of cults. Fortunately none are present in Falungong.
All of these postings here in yr view must be lies,rite?
But I do believe one bad apple will spoil all the good ones!!!
I m really amazing yr patience!!! even with all these Shtis throwing on U!!!! -
Yes, you have got my point. My point was that Falungong is not Lord Buddha's buddhism.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:That's Falungong's viewpoint, not Buddhism. As far as Buddhism is concerned the teachings of Falungong does not lead to liberation and enlightenment.
Yes what I had say is from the doctrines of Falun Dafa. It is not buddhism doctrine.
However Falungong will lead to liberation and enlightenment. One similar attribute is Shan which is benevolence or compassion. Once you have this, it becomes the core of enlightenment Moreover it is not logical for buddhism to say falungong will not achieve enlightened. Perhaps this is interpreted by some monks because Lord Buddha had never denied Falungong. How can the words of monks be used to justify such high realms of knowledge when it can only be done so by Lord Buddha himself? -
Shan (virtuousness?) and compassion does not lead to Liberation, Enlightenment. It leads to higher realms or better life.Originally posted by no more:However Falungong will lead to liberation and enlightenment. One similar attribute is Shan which is benevolence or compassion. Once you have this, it becomes the core of enlightenment Moreover it is not logical for buddhism to say falungong will not achieve enlightened. Perhaps this is interpreted by some monks because Lord Buddha had never denied Falungong. How can the words of monks be used to justify such high realms of knowledge when it can only be done so by Lord Buddha himself?
Falungong is only created over the past century so of course Buddha did not comment on it. But the teachings of Falungong is not the same as Buddhism and it does not teach people about insight training. So naturally it is totally different.
Or perhaps, our definitions of 'liberation' and 'enlightenment' are just totally different. -
No offence EternalNow but look at their website - TS claims it is not but they have a huge picture of the Lord Buddha on there. It is like many deviant so called christian cults - they steal or build on the concept from another religion and change it like the Davidian sects ( which eneded up in massacre) from Christianity, Hare Krishnans from Hinduism etc.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:That's Falungong's viewpoint, not Buddhism. As far as Buddhism is concerned the teachings of Falungong does not lead to liberation and enlightenment.
Nomore has said it is not a religion but part of the many methods to achieve enlightment or something based on Buddhism . Well that is what happens when a cult manipulates a decent mainstream religion like Buddhism and tries to confused people into believing in their so called methods. -
Something like that.Originally posted by fymk:No offence EternalNow but look at their website - TS claims it is not but they have a huge picture of the Lord Buddha on there. It is like many deviant so called christian cults - they steal or build on the concept from another religion and change it like the Davidian sects ( which eneded up in massacre) from Christianity, Hare Krishnans from Hinduism etc.
But falungong is not founded on Buddhism. It does try to add concepts from other religions, but Buddhism is not its main doctrine.
They do honour Buddha, but they also honour Jesus, etc, just as much. -
Quite true . It is like the Unification Theory where physics is explained by only 1 equation alone and that equation if found , is the one and only theory that holds the universe according to all physical theory - which is somewhat the proof of all physical theories .Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Something like that.
But falungong is not founded on Buddhism. It does try to add concepts from other religions, but Buddhism is not its main doctrine.
They do honour Buddha, but they also honour Jesus, etc, just as much.
Falungong is doing a mix and match to figure out what does best to attract people . The concept is the same - they plan to take out bit by bit out of every religion but they need a framework of one to build on . -
NomoreOriginally posted by no more:
[quote]
Originally posted by no more:
Maybe fymk is confused ( no offense meant) between Buddhism and the school of Buddhist laws( in chinese called Fo Fa). Buddhism refers to the religion founded in India by Lord Buddha. Lord Buddha himself had stated that there are 84000 methods to attain enlightenment in the Buddhist way. Lord BuddhaÂ’s way, which is one of the way is present day Buddhism. Falungong is also one of the 84000 methods. They are classified under the same family because of similar attributes but they are absolutely different methods.
Yes, you have got my point. My point was that Falungong is not Lord Buddha's buddhism.
Yes what I had say is from the doctrines of Falun Dafa. It is not buddhism doctrine.
However Falungong will lead to liberation and enlightenment. One similar attribute is Shan which is benevolence or compassion. Once you have this, it becomes the core of enlightenment Moreover it is not logical for buddhism to say falungong will not achieve enlightened. Perhaps this is interpreted by some monks because Lord Buddha had never denied Falungong. How can the words of monks be used to justify such high realms of knowledge when it can only be done so by Lord Buddha himself?
People can't just take a method out from a mainstream religion and claim it as another thing. Which is which? Why does your organisation put the buddha's picture on the website when it claims that it is not a religious website? I can see the key framework of falungong directly stealing its concept from Buddhism. What you are doing now is contradicting yourself. -
I thought Catholic is the same as well!!! they worship Marry,Jesus and all Gods!!!Originally posted by fymk:Quite true . It is like the Unification Theory where physics is explained by only 1 equation alone and that equation if found , is the one and only theory that holds the universe according to all physical theory - which is somewhat the proof of all physical theories .
Falungong is doing a mix and match to figure out what does best to attract people . The concept is the same - they plan to take out bit by bit out of every religion but they need a framework of one to build on . -
No I have not checked properly. Suggestions that Falungong members trade organs to frame CCP is obvious nonsence. Who will kill yourself for no reason? Logic will tell you it is not possible. Most of the quotes I believe are true. However, I have totally different interpretation perhaps due to my better understanding of Falungong. Still the same word, you really need to read Zhuan Falun to better understand.Originally posted by foomwee88:Good!!!!
All of these postings here in yr view must be lies,rite?
But I do believe one bad apple will spoil all the good ones!!!
I m really amazing yr patience!!! even with all these Shtis throwing on U!!!!
To err is to human. We falungong practitioner despite having the aspiration to achive supreme goodnees, sometime make mistakes. Why? We are still human cultivating. We thrive to become better and better. But it would be unrealistic to expect us to be perfect immediately. After reading some accounts, especially that of Fymk, this is what I have to say. What he had described is not the desired behaviour of Falungong member. Assuming what Fymk said is true, I apologise for all the unhappiness he and his parents accounted. If Fymk is reading this, I hope he can do me a favour when he encounter such unhappy incidents again. I just hope you can forgive them.
I am not here to trumpet how high honourable I am. Such patience in the face of accusation is what a true falungong member is capable of. -
Wake up !!!! He is not making money ? Oh he get no money from teaching, he only earn royalties from his books ! Did you and your members buy any of the books ? of course what - like that he earn his royalties.Originally posted by no more:Master Li Hongzhi is not living in luxury. He actually lives in a humble house in USA. I can use rational reasons to explain why he could not be living in luxury. The teaching of Falungong is totally free of charge. Hence no money can be made. If Falungong is a cult, with its 100mil members, everybody giving their master a dollar would make him rich. But obviously he did not do it. Master Li Hongzhi is living by on revenues earned for the royalties on his books. By the way, all books can be downloaded for free on the Internet. Any profit-motivated people would never do such a thing. What Master Li Hongzhi is earning is a legitimate way of income. Zhuan Falun was a popular best seller. Why cant an author live by earnings from their royalties?
If you say royalties is not earning money damn stupid !!! The harry porter author then must be not seen as taking money from people. as she do no take money from the people directly what she just earn royalties !!!
Well now we know Falungong teach people how to bullshit !!! turn the truth to lies and they refuse to face the facts ~!!! -
That is the power of a cultOriginally posted by no more:No I have not checked properly. Suggestions that Falungong members trade organs to frame CCP is obvious nonsence. Who will kill yourself for no reason? Logic will tell you it is not possible.
Of herectic believers
Kinda like the Suicide bombers
Then how do you explain the self-torching in Tienanmen
Likelihood a mother would torch herself and her only daugther for gov propaganda is lower than a mother who would do it in a 'religion' or 'belief' -
I hope this is from yr heart n not brain!!!Originally posted by no more:No I have not checked properly. Suggestions that Falungong members trade organs to frame CCP is obvious nonsence. Who will kill yourself for no reason? Logic will tell you it is not possible. Most of the quotes I believe are true. However, I have totally different interpretation perhaps due to my better understanding of Falungong. Still the same word, you really need to read Zhuan Falun to better understand.
To err is to human. We falungong practitioner despite having the aspiration to achive supreme goodnees, sometime make mistakes. Why? We are still human cultivating. We thrive to become better and better. But it would be unrealistic to expect us to be perfect immediately. After reading some accounts, especially that of Fymk, this is what I have to say. What he had described is not the desired behaviour of Falungong member. Assuming what Fymk said is true, I apologise for all the unhappiness he and his parents accounted. If Fymk is reading this, I hope he can do me a favour when he encounter such unhappy incidents again. I just hope you can forgive them.
I am not here to trumpet how high honourable I am. Such patience in the face of accusation is what a true falungong member is capable of.
Thanking u 4 clearing all these doubts that we have!!!
Wishing u all the best in life!!!!
Remembering 3 "Hs" in life!!!,my family teachings" No hate, no harm and no hurt to others!!!" -
Hey - you say it you are not here to trumpet how high honourable you are, and saying that you have such patience in face of accusatiuon .Originally posted by no more:No I have not checked properly. Suggestions that Falungong members trade organs to frame CCP is obvious nonsence. Who will kill yourself for no reason? Logic will tell you it is not possible. Most of the quotes I believe are true. However, I have totally different interpretation perhaps due to my better understanding of Falungong. Still the same word, you really need to read Zhuan Falun to better understand.
To err is to human. We falungong practitioner despite having the aspiration to achive supreme goodnees, sometime make mistakes. Why? We are still human cultivating. We thrive to become better and better. But it would be unrealistic to expect us to be perfect immediately. After reading some accounts, especially that of Fymk, this is what I have to say. What he had described is not the desired behaviour of Falungong member. Assuming what Fymk said is true, I apologise for all the unhappiness he and his parents accounted. If Fymk is reading this, I hope he can do me a favour when he encounter such unhappy incidents again. I just hope you can forgive them.
I am not here to trumpet how high honourable I am. Such patience in the face of accusation is what a true falungong member is capable of.
Didn't you just smack yourself in the face, on one hand you say you did not boast that you are saying you are honourable. But the other hand you boast that you have great patience !!!
So this is the so call cultivation - boasting oneself patience to others is what Falungong memeber is capable of ..... sure we seen it all thanks to you . -
I am catholic. We don't worship Mary . We respect her. We worship God .Originally posted by foomwee88:I thought Catholic is the same as well!!! they worship Marry,Jesus and all Gods!!!
Please read up before you even engage in the discussion about Catholicism. -
" Hongzhi bought a house in New York shortly after arriving in US for $293,500 and then bought another home in New Jersey for $580,000 the next year. Together the two residences cost $873,000.00 reports The Independent of London.ÂOriginally posted by no more:Most of the threads had demonstrated the powers of propaganda. A lot of people are willing to believe what they hear without questioning. I donÂ’t expect many people to believe what I say because I am up against a powerful propaganda machine. For those who wish to know, here is the actual truth.
Master Li Hongzhi is not living in luxury. He actually lives in a humble house in USA. I can use rational reasons to explain why he could not be living in luxury. The teaching of Falungong is totally free of charge. Hence no money can be made. If Falungong is a cult, with its 100mil members, everybody giving their master a dollar would make him rich. But obviously he did not do it. Master Li Hongzhi is living by on revenues earned for the royalties on his books. By the way, all books can be downloaded for free on the Internet. Any profit-motivated people would never do such a thing. What Master Li Hongzhi is earning is a legitimate way of income. Zhuan Falun was a popular best seller. Why cant an author live by earnings from their royalties?
Perhaps, I may need to elaborate on the concept of what is a religion to answer fymkÂ’s doubts. Religions are more of rituals with heavy emphasis on what you can do and what not. Falungong does not have any of these. Its principles just state what a good person on the road of cultivation must do. If a person wants to leave, he can do so. No records are kept and strictly no money is to be accumulated. There is also no praying or worshipping at all. Emphasis is placed on how to be good and to abandon human attachments.
Maybe fymk is confused ( no offense meant) between Buddhism and the school of Buddhist laws( in chinese called Fo Fa). Buddhism refers to the religion founded in India by Lord Buddha. Lord Buddha himself had stated that there are 84000 methods to attain enlightenment in the Buddhist way. Lord BuddhaÂ’s way, which is one of the way is present day Buddhism. Falungong is also one of the 84000 methods. They are classified under the same family because of similar attributes but they are absolutely different methods.
This is also why you see falungong members distributing leaflets. One of the most significant attributes of the Buddhist law school is the idea of compassion. If you cultivate on way of Buddha and abandoning selfish human attachments, you will naturally and sincerely feel compassion for other living souls. Falungong member wish to inform people on the evils of now to discourage people from sinning. This is a very high level Buddhist law concept which I feel very hard to explain. You really need to cultivate compassion to understand this.
Master Li Hongzhi had strictly required his disciples to never think of him as a god. He wants his disciples to see him as a human.
(to be continued)
Given the substantial rise in real estate values across the United States and particularly in the New York/New Jersey area, it is probable that Hongzhi’s homes may have doubled in value.
This means Li Hongzhi has likely become a millionaire.Â
Not bad for a former army musician and clerical worker, who seems to have done much better marketing religion than making music.
The British newspaper did not disclose if the homes were paid for in cash or financed through mortgages.
But even if the Falun Gong leader borrowed money, considering the timing and appreciation of his investments he is a wealthy man."
You call that humble living? It's like GCT 's wife calling a lot of money " peanuts ". I don't mind having this "humble living" and having "peanuts" as my salary . I must be impoverished in my condition. Please note that the news came from western media . I took careful steps to ensure that the media is not CCP- controlled so that our dear nomore can't say it is propaganda by the Chinese Communist Party . -
err fymk actually what I am saying is that Falungong is not buddhism. If you try to see Falungong within the lens of buddhism, you will get confused. It is just like trying to see christianity through the lens of buddhism. No result will come out. Eternalnow is right. Buddhism and falungong are different and they should continue to remain so. Falungong is a way of cultivation. It has no rituals. My Master had also stated in his books that we are not a religion.Originally posted by fymk:Nomore
People can't just take a method out from a mainstream religion and claim it as another thing. Which is which? Why does your organisation put the buddha's picture on the website when it claims that it is not a religious website? I can see the key framework of falungong directly stealing its concept from Buddhism. What you are doing now is contradicting yourself.
There is also a misunderstanding that we worship other gods. That is not true. We respect other Gods like Jesus and Lord Buddha because of their compassion, kindness and goodness. They are great Gods there is no doubts about it. This is different from worshipping them.
Perhaps we should not be overly focused on the form but be interested in the essences. No government can say which religion is a cult. Christianity will not become a cult even if Taliban and Osama say so. Christianity is an upright religion because of its preaching of love and compassion. How could Falungong be a cult when it teach so too?
But fymk is very right on one issue. Many cults are around stealing other ideologies to attempt legitimacy. Many should beware. -
Originally posted by fymk:
There is actually a follow up to the story. The house was actually a gift from a practitioner. Master Li Hongzhi returned the house. I think it went on TV. Perhaps you can find it.
Hongzhi bought a house in New York shortly after arriving in US for $293,500 and then bought another home in New Jersey for $580,000 the next year. Together the two residences cost $873,000.00 reports The Independent of London.
Given the substantial rise in real estate values across the United States and particularly in the New York/New Jersey area, it is probable that HongzhiÂ’s homes may have doubled in value.
This means Li Hongzhi has likely become a millionaire.
Not bad for a former army musician and clerical worker, who seems to have done much better marketing religion than making music.
The British newspaper did not disclose if the homes were paid for in cash or financed through mortgages.
But even if the Falun Gong leader borrowed money, considering the timing and appreciation of his investments he is a wealthy man.
[b] You call that humble living? It's like GCT 's wife calling a lot of money " peanuts ". I don't mind having this "humble living" and having "peanuts" as my salary
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