Falungong is not a cult
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Yup . But you have not answered my question: why does the falun org display the buddha's picture then? For the sole purpose of misleading others? And why did you say it is part of the methods in Buddhism yet not a method at all?Originally posted by no more:err fymk actually what I am saying is that Falungong is not buddhism. If you try to see Falungong within the lens of buddhism, you will get confused. It is just like trying to see christianity through the lens of buddhism. No result will come out. Eternalnow is right. Buddhism and falungong are different and they should continue to remain so. Falungong is a way of cultivation. It has no rituals. My Master had also stated in his books that we are not a religion.
There is also a misunderstanding that we worship other gods. That is not true. We respect other Gods like Jesus and Lord Buddha because of their compassion, kindness and goodness. They are great Gods there is no doubts about it. This is different from worshipping them.
Perhaps we should not be overly focused on the form but be interested in the essences. No government can say which religion is a cult. Christianity will not become a cult even if Taliban and Osama say so. Christianity is an upright religion because of its preaching of love and compassion. How could Falungong be a cult when it teach so too?
But fymk is very right on one issue. Many cults are around stealing other ideologies to attempt legitimacy. Many should beware.
Don't tell me now - let me guess...now it is zen type of philosophy? ....what is there is not there , yet what is not there is there? -
Who knows? Maybe the house is the only thing he return.Originally posted by no more:There is actually a follow up to the story. The house was actually a gift from a practitioner. Master Li Hongzhi returned the house. I think it went on TV. Perhaps you can find it.
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And the other? Now that is living humbly ....owning a house in USA. I don't mind owning a place myself in USA . Compared to his standard of humbly living - I think I am on the improverished side of things.Originally posted by no more:There is actually a follow up to the story. The house was actually a gift from a practitioner. Master Li Hongzhi returned the house. I think it went on TV. Perhaps you can find it. -
Li Hongzhi, a former trumpet-player from north-east China, is known as "Living Buddha" to his devotees.
The authorities in Beijing also have a few names for Mr Li. They have branded him the leader of an "evil cult" and a dangerous charlatan and have ordered his arrest.
China says practitioners have been brainwashed
Mr Li's crime, as far as Beijing in concerned, is to have founded the Falun Gong spritual sect, which has presented the Communist Party with its most brazen challenge in a decade.
Falun Gong combines slow meditative exercises with Mr Li's homespun philosophy and teachings loosely drawn from Buddhism and Taoism.
It claims to have attracted about 60 million followers in China since emerging eight years ago.
But its phenomenal growth and ability to organise protests has alarmed the Communist Party and prompted a draconian crackdown.
Aliens
Some of Mr Li's pronouncements are certainly unconventional, some would say just plain strange.
He believes aliens walk the Earth and he has reportedly said he can walk through walls and make himself invisible.
Mr Li says that he is a being from from a higher level who has come to help humankind from the destruction it could face as the result of rampant evil.
But while his ideas may be bizarre, his followers claim to uphold high moral standards. Falun Gong's three guiding pronciples are Truthfulness, Benevolence and Forbearance.
Western cult investigators appear uncertain as to whether Mr Li is the benign leader of a quasi-religious martial art or the figurehead of a far more sinister organisation.
But the Chinese authorities, who outlawed the movement in July 1999 have no such doubts.
They have blamed him for the deaths of thousands of followers, saying he has stopped people seeking medical help. Mr Li says he has never done this.
He has also been accused of embezzling donations, an allegation he hotly denies, and stirring up social unrest.
But despite the crackdown on his followers, it is unlikely Mr Li himself will ever be arrested.
Three years ago, Mr Li moved to the United States and he now lives in New York with his wife and daughter.
Beginnings
Mr Li, a tallish, thickset man, was born in Jilin province, north-east China, but his date of birth is somewhat controversial.
The authorities have accused him of backdating it from 7 July 1952 to 13 May 1951 so he could share the birthday of Buddhism's founder, Sakyamuni.
Mr Li says the date was misrecorded in the first place and points out that millions of other people must share the same birthday as Sakyamuni.
"I have never said I am Sakyamuni," he said in one interview. "I am just a very ordinary man."
But in another interview with Time magazine he implied he was anything but ordinary.
Asked if he was a human being from earth, he replied: "I don't wish to talk about myself at a higher level. People wouldn't understand it."
Childhood
The self-styled spiritual leader says he started learning a special form of the Chinese martial art, qigong, at age four from a Buddhist master, and completed his training at eight.
Qigong is a martial art which combines meditation and breathing exercises and is believed to tap the practitioner's inner strength.
At 12, Mr Li says he was discovered by a Taoist immortal who taught him Taoist practices.
However, the Chinese media says his childhood was a good deal more mundane.
Teachers and classmates reportedly remember him as an unexceptional student whose only talent was for playing the trumpet.
At 17, the young Li went to work on a People's Liberation Army stud farm, according to state media reports.
Subsequent jobs included a trumpeter in a police band, a guesthouse attendant and a grain store clerk.
Danger
The authorities say he only started studying qigong in 1988 and founded Falun Gong, also known as Falun Dafa, four years later.
But classes and exercise areas rapidly sprang up across the country, and his first book, Zhuan Falun, the Falun Gong bible, became a bestseller when it was published in 1996.
By the following year Beijing considered the movement a significant enough danger to remove it from the official martial arts list. And in 1998, Mr Li left for the US.
But the organisation appears to have continued to grow, thanks in part to a comprehensive network of websites disseminating lectures, videos and handbooks.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1223317.stm -
According to a report in the Wall Street Journal, an estate of 4,600 sq ft near Princeton University in the US state of New Jersey was bought for the sum of $580,000 under the name of Li Rui, Li Hongzhi's wife, at the beginning of 1999. Although a spokesman for Li Hongzhi has told the press that it was presented to him as a gift by John Sun, one of his most faithful followers, and he has paid John Sun for it. Note the word "paid" ....now how many of us can afford to PAY USD 580k for a place ?
I don't mind living humbly with a USD$580K house
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In Zhuan Falun, Master Li Hongzhi had devoted an entire sub-chapter on the concept of taking lives. We are very clear on this issue. The taking of a live, especially that of a human will deem a person incapable of cultivation. A real falungong member will not do this. Remember: anybody can call himself a falungong member because we never keep a name register or something. A real Falungong member is only differeniatable by his thoughts and actions.Originally posted by elindra:That is the power of a cult
Of herectic believers
Kinda like the Suicide bombers
Then how do you explain the self-torching in Tienanmen
Likelihood a mother would torch herself and her only daugther for gov propaganda is lower than a mother who would do it in a 'religion' or 'belief'
You had read the communist side of the story. Most people had not bothered to hear the other side. I have a link please take a look. http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/special_column/self-immolation.html
It is a Falungong website and perhaps will not have academic neturality. It is the best I can find. -
I read the interviews in Times, Wall Street and what's not .
It's confusing . For every statement , there is a contradiction.
One moment it is taoism, the next moment it is the methods of buddhism and then it jumps bizarrely to UFOs which is more the the rasputian or something cult which believes that UFOs will take them away .
Which is which? It seems to be mutating to every whim and fancy of the leader. -
His interview with Time Magazine if anyone is interested
http://www.time.com/time/asia/asia/magazine/1999/990510/interview1.html
I like this best:
TIME: Are you a human being?
Li: You can think of me as a human being.
And this:
TIME: How do you see the future?
Li: Future human society is quite terrifying. If aliens are not to replace human beings, society will destroy itself on its own. Industry is creating invisible air pollution. The microparticles in the air harm human beings. The abnormality in the climate today is caused by that [pollution], and it cannot be remedied by humans alone. The drinking water is polluted. No matter how we try to purify it, it cannot return to its original purity. Modern science cannot determine the extent of the damage. The food we eat is the product of fertilized soil. The meat we eat is affected. I can foresee a future when human limbs become deformed, the body's joints won't move and internal organs will become dysfunctional. Modern science hasn't realized this yet.
At the beginning you asked why I did such things. I only tell practitioners, but not the public because they cannot comprehend it. I am trying to save those people who can return to a high level and to a high moral level. Modern science does not understand this, so governments can do nothing. The only person in the entire world who knows this is myself alone.
I am not against the public knowing, but I am teaching practitioners. Even though the public knows, it cannot do anything about it. People can't free themselves from science and from their concepts. I am not against science. I am only telling mankind the truth. I drive a car. I also live in the environment. Don't believe that I am against science. But I know that modern science is destroying mankind. Aliens have already constructed a layer of cells in human beings. The development of computers dictates this layer of body cells to control human culture and spirituality and in the end to replace human beings. -
Sorry I had indeed not announced your question.Originally posted by fymk:Yup . But you have not answered my question: why does the falun org display the buddha's picture then? For the sole purpose of misleading others? And why did you say it is part of the methods in Buddhism yet not a method at all?
Don't tell me now - let me guess...now it is zen type of philosophy? ....what is there is not there , yet what is not there is there?
We are definitely not zen because zen philosophy pursue extreme emptiness(pardon me if I am wrong). We Pursue Zhen shan Ren.
With regards to the Buddha picture. I afraid to say I am not very sure because I did not design it. I think it is just a design. it does not refer to any buddha( there are more than Lord Buddha himself). Maybe because we are are a buddhist law school of cultivation( but not buddhism) therefore they put this design. But Master Li Hongzhi strictly stated we are not buddhism. Hope I answered your question. -
I happen to be coding this layer of program for the aliens and I don't expect people to understand it !
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This is because you and perhaps most people are reading what other people say instead of reading the official text, Zhuan Falun. These reports can easily be manipulated into propaganda. I will quote an example and you understand.Originally posted by fymk:I read the interviews in Times, Wall Street and what's not .
It's confusing . For every statement , there is a contradiction.
One moment it is taoism, the next moment it is the methods of buddhism and then it jumps bizarrely to UFOs which is more the the rasputian or something cult which believes that UFOs will take them away .
Which is which? It seems to be mutating to every whim and fancy of the leader.
This is just an example. Falungong will never involve in politics. Do you know LKY, LHL and PAP get abolutely good media coverage? Will they be absolutely good just because the media potrays them to be so? This answer can only be fairly answered by Singaporeans living here.
If you only read propaganda material, how can you expect to get the true? -
Originally posted by fymk:
Maybe I use Maths to better illustrate the picture. There is at least 100mil Falungong member in China so say the communists. There is actually more if you consider it internationally. By for simplicity sake, let use communist figures.
According to a report in the Wall Street Journal, an estate of 4,600 sq ft near Princeton University in the US state of New Jersey was bought for the sum of $580,000 under the name of Li Rui, Li Hongzhi's wife, at the beginning of 1999. Although a spokesman for Li Hongzhi has told the press that it was presented to him as a gift by John Sun, one of his most faithful followers, and he has paid John Sun for it. [b] Note the word "paid" ....now how many of us can afford to PAY USD 580k for a place ?
I don't mind living humbly with a USD$580K house . [/b]
(the following is not true but only a mathimatical stimulation)
If Master Li makes $1 for every book, he has $100mil
If he make $0.10 for every book he will has $10mil
Fact one, royalty per book is always bigger than $0.10
Fact two, Master Li wrote more than one book.
With such readership, any profit motivated person becomes rich. Falungong books are priced so cheaply that anti-Falungong propaganda books are more expensive.
There is nothing wrong making money from a bestseller. people want to pay for a best seller. If Jesus is alive he will be rich because the bible is the number one best seller in the world. It would be unfair to accuse jesus of money-grabbing. People read the bible because they want to learn the good taught by him. -
Now now, I said I did not take it out from the China's sanctioned papers and reports. Those magazines like Wall Street and Times report without influence from Communist China sources and just because they don't agree with what you believe doesn't mean that they are propaganda by the Chinese Communist Party.Originally posted by no more:This is because you and perhaps most people are reading what other people say instead of reading the official text, Zhuan Falun. These reports can easily be manipulated into propaganda. I will quote an example and you understand.
This is just an example. Falungong will never involve in politics. Do you know LKY, LHL and PAP get abolutely good media coverage? Will they be absolutely good just because the media potrays them to be so? This answer can only be fairly answered by Singaporeans living here.
If you only read propaganda material, how can you expect to get the true?
If I take the information from Falungong's website , it will also be biased. And others will be calling it Falungong's propaganda
So I chose western sources and they say no different. I do believe LKY have sued an american magazine for reporting on him. I don't purport american sources to be all true since they do like scandal but Times and Wall Street have a reputation they have to defend.
So please don't try and say something is propaganda when it might just be a bit of truth somewhere in it.
Falungong is already involved in politics trying to place pressure on others to recognise what the Chinese Communist Party is allegedly doing to them.
And you claim not to be familiar with the main foundations of your "practice" . How can you even dispel our disbelief then? -
Which part of the foundation I am not sure? Please enlightent me. Thank You.Originally posted by fymk:Now now, I said I did not take it out from the China's sanctioned papers and reports. Those magazines like Wall Street and Times report without influence from Communist China sources and just because they don't agree with what you believe doesn't mean that they are propaganda by the Chinese Communist Party.
If I take the information from Falungong's website , it will also be biased. And others will be calling it Falungong's propaganda
So I chose western sources and they say no different. I do believe LKY have sued an american magazine for reporting on him. I don't purport american sources to be all true since they do like scandal but Times and Wall Street have a reputation they have to defend.
So please don't try and say something is propaganda when it might just be a bit of truth somewhere in it.
Falungong is already involved in politics trying to place pressure on others to recognise what the Chinese Communist Party is allegedly doing to them.
And you claim not to be familiar with the main foundations of your "practice" . How can you even dispel our disbelief then? -
Fact: Anti falungong propangada comes from Chinese Controlled Sources such as newspapers and websites- how can they be cheaper than a book?Originally posted by no more:Maybe I use Maths to better illustrate the picture. There is at least 100mil Falungong member in China so say the communists. There is actually more if you consider it internationally. By for simplicity sake, let use communist figures.
(the following is not true but only a mathimatical stimulation)
If Master Li makes $1 for every book, he has $100mil
If he make $0.10 for every book he will has $10mil
Fact one, royalty per book is always bigger than $0.10
Fact two, Master Li wrote more than one book.
With such readership, any profit motivated person becomes rich. Falungong books are priced so cheaply that anti-Falungong propaganda books are more expensive.
There is nothing wrong making money from a bestseller. people want to pay for a best seller. If Jesus is alive he will be rich because the bible is the number one best seller in the world. It would be unfair to accuse jesus of money-grabbing. People read the bible because they want to learn the good taught by him.
Fact : The publishing houses make money out of publishing bibles. however should you want a free bible - there is the gideons.
Fact: Jesus didn't ask his followers to pay for the teachings . His way of teaching was going to surrounding areas and preaching to those who cared to listen. People probably invited him to eat and stay at their place as with old ancient customs . He didn't own a half a million dollar house, and not even a donkey. He didn't run. Unlike your master who used the money to run from the China and resettle somewhere else in USA. He was later crucified alive on the cross and he didn't even blame his followers for ditching him in time of need.
So please do not compare your great leader with Jesus. -
Originally posted by no more:
What rubbish....last time we see Falungong members alighting themselves on fire...what abhors taking of lives...
4. Falungong absolutely abhors the taking of lives, including suicide. A real Falungong practitioner will never resort to burning himself.
There is simply too many misunderstandings floating around. I would gladly clarify any doubts if anybody have any. [/b][/b]
FLG is a cult. period..
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Here is the part of your main foundation. You say maybe you are a buddhist law school of cultivation but not buddhist. It's like saying I am eating char siew pork but maybe it is not pork since it is called char siew. That is being unsure.Originally posted by no more:Sorry I had indeed not announced your question.
We are definitely not zen because zen philosophy pursue extreme emptiness(pardon me if I am wrong). We Pursue Zhen shan Ren.
With regards to the Buddha picture. I afraid to say I am not very sure because I did not design it. I think it is just a design. it does not refer to any buddha( there are more than Lord Buddha himself). Maybe because we are are a buddhist law school of cultivation( but not buddhism) therefore they put this design. But Master Li Hongzhi strictly stated we are not buddhism. Hope I answered your question. -
Another rubbish...Originally posted by no more:As for falungong, it is taught totally free of charge, hence no money is involved. There is no name register or anything. Anybody is free to come and go without restriction. Most importantly, the upright principles which it clamours is even above that of what society demands. Under such circumstances, how can the definition of cults be applied to Falungong? Its free doesnt mean its good. Traditional evil cults or dark arts also takes in members free of charge.
You go ask those evil cults, they go in free, then they have mass-orgy with the cult leader etc, yah right....its taught free-of charge. -
I am sorry if I had offended you. I am trying to state an example and not make any comparison.Originally posted by fymk:Fact: Anti falungong propangada comes from Chinese Controlled Sources such as newspapers and websites- how can they be cheaper than a book?
Fact : The publishing houses make money out of publishing bibles. however should you want a free bible - there is the gideons.
Fact: Jesus didn't ask his followers to pay for the teachings . His way of teaching was going to surrounding areas and preaching to those who cared to listen. People probably invited him to eat and stay at their place as with old ancient customs . He didn't own a half a million dollar house, and not even a donkey. He didn't have the money to run from the romans and resettle somewhere else. He was later crucified alive on the cross and he didn't even blame his followers for ditching him in time of need.
So please do not compare your great leader with Jesus.
I bought my Zhuan Falun for $8 three yrs ago. And I know I could have gotten it free if I downloaded from the net.
What I am talking about is the compilation not newspapers.
Just as Falungong should not be compared to buddhism, it should not be compared to Christianity. In my earlier threads, I had say I respect Jesus as a Great God. My personal main respect comes from the doctrine he teaches and the compassion he has. Material things are secondary to spiritual. I hope you understand what I mean. -
No. We are a Buddhist law school of cultivation and we are not buddhism. They are two different things. The part I am unsure of is the design because I am not the webmaster. that all.Originally posted by fymk:Here is the part of your main foundation. You say maybe you are a buddhist law school of cultivation but not buddhist. It's like saying I am eating char siew pork but maybe it is not pork since it is called char siew. That is being unsure.
Maybe you can see the threads of Eternalnow. -
Urm....I can't seem to find a compiled book of how falungong is bad or wrong. I had to get info from Times or Wall Street Journals online or the cult news journal.Originally posted by no more:I am sorry if I had offended you. I am trying to state an example and not make any comparison.
I bought my Zhuan Falun for $8 three yrs ago. And I know I could have gotten it free if I downloaded from the net.
What I am talking about is the compilation not newspapers.
Just as Falungong should not be compared to buddhism, it should not be compared to Christianity. In my earlier threads, I had say I respect Jesus as a Great God. My personal main respect comes from the doctrine he teaches and the compassion he has. Material things are secondary to spiritual. I hope you understand what I mean. -
Falungong has nothing of such evils. It preaches goodness.Originally posted by nightzip:Another rubbish... Its free doesnt mean its good. Traditional evil cults or dark arts also takes in members free of charge.
You go ask those evil cults, they go in free, then they have mass-orgy with the cult leader etc, yah right....its taught free-of charge. -
And humble living of a life of calligraphy, paid lectures and books together with the a property of USD$580k house.Originally posted by no more:Falungong has nothing of such evils. It preaches goodness. -
Maybe this is what I have to say again. I just wish to share the truth around. Those interested to probe deeper can go to Falungong websites or better still read Zhuan Falun. Maybe then, you all can then evaluate the truth to yourself rather than letting other people define it. -
Well it has been interesting discussing this with you. No offence meant but alot of things just don't stick logically together. I hope u will find ur own truth out of everything said.Originally posted by no more:Maybe this is what I have to say again. I just wish to share the truth around. Those interested to probe deeper can go to Falungong websites or better still read Zhuan Falun. Maybe then, you all can then evaluate the truth to yourself rather than letting other people define it.