Ban Smoking Area???
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usual half-arsed method of things..
they want, yet they are too scared to do it.. so it ends up as half and half..
but it's too lousy to be effective, and too lousy to please anyone..
either do it outright, or don't do it... -
they want the money and they want the votes.Originally posted by the Bear:usual half-arsed method of things..
they want, yet they are too scared to do it.. so it ends up as half and half..
but it's too lousy to be effective, and too lousy to please anyone..
either do it outright, or don't do it... -
that's elitism... they have meat, u get bones, at least u get something, u know? n u work to the bones to give 'em meat n be thankful u get a job, er two so u can get more bones, blame it on the bony thoughts u always have that u'll get unconditional care...
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Because too many Singaporeans are just not responsible enough to save up for medical fees, that's why? How many Singaporeans would buy health insurance on their own? No, they would expect others to pay their hospital bills.Originally posted by ShutterBug:If health is an individual's responsibility, then why are we all FORCED to set aside money by means of Medisave? Even then, we still need to pay 30% of medical or hospital bills - what for?
If the responsibility is ours, then the gov should allow us to save on our own - likewise for retirement funds. -
And have the same people here complaining that the Singapore government is authoritarian and does not respect human rights?Originally posted by iLuVpOrKyPiG:this is just an excuse to increase revenue.
if smoking is really as bad it is reported why not gradually ban smoking?
A balance must be struck. If smokers want to kill themselves with smoke in their own homes, why stop them if they do not hurt others? But they just have to suffer the consequences of their own actions.
You sound even more like a dictator than the PAP if you ban people from smoking in their own homes. What next? Ban people from drinking alcohol and spy on gays in their bedroom to see if they are committing sodomy?
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Uncle oxford mushroomOriginally posted by oxford mushroom:Because too many Singaporeans are just not responsible enough to save up for medical fees, that's why? How many Singaporeans would buy health insurance on their own? No, they would expect others to pay their hospital bills.
Average and lower income earners are always $$$ not enough lah......You had probably never gone through hardship. That's why, you are always impulsive with words used on others. There are many families....never had enough $$$ for utilities bills, school fees, conservancy charges and so on....I've seen many of them were just paying bills with outstanding of at least one or two months delay .
If Town council, Branch office or Singpost were to reveal outstanding bills due for paymentof one or two months delay.......you will be suprised with the figures.
If a guy...have no savings, Medisave, insurance for medical expenses. Would you pay medical fee on his behalf? Unless, that guy is related to you.
So far....is there any SG hospital do not collect or ask payment from its patients?.......From what I know....if one do not pay for long time. Hospital will serve legal letter upon them.
So far...in Singapore. I've never heard of anyone expecting others to pay their hospital bills. -
Originally posted by Lowclassman:
On the contrary, because uncle has grown up through tough times, i cannot understand why young punks today do not work more and rant less. Nobody owes you a living. If you do not save up for your own medical needs, don;t complain if you do not have enough mone later. Singapore's medical fees are very cheap, in fact, too cheap...people do not appreciate its value.
Uncle oxford mushroom
Average and lower income earners are always $$$ not enough lah......You had probably never gone through hardship. That's why, you are always impulsive with words used on others. There are many families....never had enough $$$ for utilities bills, school fees, conservancy charges and so on....I've seen many of them were just paying bills with outstanding of at least one or two months delay .
[b]If Town council, Branch office or Singpost were to reveal outstanding bills due for paymentof one or two months delay.......you will be suprised with the figures.
If a guy...have no savings, Medisave, insurance for medical expenses. Would you pay medical fee on his behalf? Unless, that guy is related to you.
So far....is there any SG hospital do not collect or ask payment from its patients?.......From what I know....if one do not pay for long time. Hospital will serve legal letter upon them.
So far...in Singapore. I've never heard of anyone expecting others to pay their hospital bills. [/b] -
TCSS!
Even with Medisave, you still need to pay 30% upfront and 16% of medicines. What kind of CRAPPY "safety net" is this??
No money means no money. Poor people means poor and no money. For them, how to cough up 30% in the first place???
I feel that Medisave is just friggin farce to make money from people! -
If you do not have to pay a cent, people will abuse the system. If it's free, you do not value it.Originally posted by ShutterBug:TCSS!
Even with Medisave, you still need to pay 30% upfront and 16% of medicines. What kind of CRAPPY "safety net" is this??
No money means no money. Poor people means poor and no money. For them, how to cough up 30% in the first place???
I feel that Medisave is just friggin farce to make money from people!
Nobody owes you a living. There are charities and social benefits for the very poor. But you brought up a point: if you don't earn enough, why the heck are you smoking? Smokers do not deserve any social assistance if they cannot afford their medical bills. -
Guys....Pls don't response to oxford mushroom...If You do, you are just talking to a bull.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:On the contrary, because uncle has grown up through tough times, i cannot understand why young punks today do not work more and rant less. Nobody owes you a living. If you do not save up for your own medical needs, don;t complain if you do not have enough mone later. Singapore's medical fees are very cheap, in fact, too cheap...people do not appreciate its value.
Heshe knows nuts!!!! -
Haha..when uncle started working you young punks were still in diapersOriginally posted by Lowclassman:Guys....Pls don't response to oxford mushroom...If You do, you are just talking to a bull.
Heshe knows nuts!!!! But it's true...if you have lost the argument it is better to shut up than reveal your ignorance -
You meant you have lost the argument with me?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Haha..when uncle started working you young punks were still in diapers But it's true...if you have lost the argument it is better to shut up than reveal your ignorance -
Frd, u r talking to a wall lah,saving yr breath!!!Originally posted by Lowclassman:You meant you have lost the argument with me? -
I wonder, HOW is it 'free', and what do you mean by 'do not have to pay a cent', when money is deducted BY LAW from each and everyone of us - making it as already PAID? I feel that by right, they shouldn't make us pay 30% or any percent since it is our money they are taking.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:If you do not have to pay a cent, people will abuse the system. If it's free, you do not value it.
Nobody owes you a living. There are charities and social benefits for the very poor. But you brought up a point: if you don't earn enough, why the heck are you smoking? Smokers do not deserve any social assistance if they cannot afford their medical bills.
Yes, some people may abuse things, but I am sure our gov is very good at implementing measures that will regulate the proper use of Medisave funds.
At current, I view the Medisave as UNFAIR practice of the gov to FORCE people into saving for medical care, and yet requires people to pay for the same.
For those who financially dire, how can they cope with that 30% upfront???
What kind of "safety net" is Medisave? I feel it is hardly anywhere the likes of being 'safe' for the people of Singapore. -
Money is deducted for medisave is your own savings for medical costs. If you are healthy and do not use it, it does not go to the hospital or the government. Who do you mean by already paid? Putting money into your savings account does not mean you are paying the bank, can't you understand this simple logic?Originally posted by ShutterBug:I wonder, HOW is it 'free', and what do you mean by 'do not have to pay a cent', when money is deducted BY LAW from each and everyone of us - making it as already PAID? I feel that by right, they shouldn't make us pay 30% or any percent since it is our money they are taking.
Yes, some people may abuse things, but I am sure our gov is very good at implementing measures that will regulate the proper use of Medisave funds.
At current, I view the Medisave as UNFAIR practice of the gov to FORCE people into saving for medical care, and yet requires people to pay for the same.
For those who financially dire, how can they cope with that 30% upfront???
What kind of "safety net" is Medisave? I feel it is hardly anywhere the likes of being 'safe' for the people of Singapore.
The medisave is meant for your long term needs. Medical care is mostly required in your old age. If you use it up for one childbirth, for example, how are you going to pay for your medical needs when you are old? 30% co-payment is there to prevent abuse by unthinking Singaporeans who might splurge all their medisave funds on an A class bed in a private hospital for one delivery and have nothing left if that child needs subsequent hospitalisation care.
The safety net we have is the best we can afford. Nobody owes you a living and nobody owes you the best medical service available. The government's responsibility is to try to offer the best medical service WE CAN AFFORD. If you can afford better service, pay for it. The poor will get the best basic service the patient can afford to pay and the nation can afford to subsidize. And I contend that the subsidy is already very great...How else do you think you get to see the polyclinic doctor for just a couple of dollars....doctors are not cheap. -
The Govt owes us a living!!! If not..... We paid taxes for what and for who?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Money is deducted for medisave is your own savings for medical costs. If you are healthy and do not use it, it does not go to the hospital or the government. Who do you mean by already paid? Putting money into your savings account does not mean you are paying the bank, can't you understand this simple logic?
The medisave is meant for your long term needs. Medical care is mostly required in your old age. If you use it up for one childbirth, for example, how are you going to pay for your medical needs when you are old? 30% co-payment is there to prevent abuse by unthinking Singaporeans who might splurge all their medisave funds on an A class bed in a private hospital for one delivery and have nothing left if that child needs subsequent hospitalisation care.
The safety net we have is the best we can afford. Nobody owes you a living and nobody owes you the best medical service available. The government's responsibility is to try to offer the best medical service WE CAN AFFORD. If you can afford better service, pay for it. The poor will get the best basic service the patient can afford to pay and the nation can afford to subsidize. And I contend that the subsidy is already very great...How else do you think you get to see the polyclinic doctor for just a couple of dollars....doctors are not cheap.
Even in ancient China............The good emperor will still cough out $$$ from country's reserve or worst from his personal savings to help the poors and saving people in disastrous.
Here, in sg the govt would be more interested in enriching their own pockets. -
Precisely my point, bro.Originally posted by Lowclassman:The Govt owes us a living!!! If not..... We paid taxes for what and for who?
Even in ancient China............The good emperor will still cough out $$$ from country's reserve or worst from his personal savings to help the poors and saving people in disastrous.
Here, in sg the govt would be more interested in enriching their own pockets.
Yes, we pay them their Taxes. And for what in return?
If they don't owe us a living or ways to make a living for ourselves, we shouldn't owe them the votes and their living as well!!
I mean, if our gov increases Tax and make us top-up more in Medisave, we wouldn't mind if we receive what we paid for at the end of our working life. But no, that's not what we are getting now - we are expected to cough up more money even in our old age to pay for ever increasing medical and health care costs, at an age where most will not find employment. And so you may say our children can pay for us through their Medisave, but that would only mean depleting their Medisave and thus causing our children to pay more in cash! Isn't this "saftey net" an LPPL policy?
As far as many of us are aware, our gov is only interested in PROTECTING their own system which churns out all their own incomes. Now this, is the REALITY.
And if Medisave is such a perfect policy and medical and health care is so cheap as proclaimed by OM, why then is Mr Khaw revising Medisave coverage to include CAT scan and MRI for cancer patients, and private hospitalization as well???
It is as with anything from our gov, a half-assed solution to an age old problem. Why? Because they don't want to lose money. And whose money are they hoarding???
OURS!!!! -
Health cost or infact all living expenses will go up year on year.
Professionals are mobile. We arent. If we cannot afford to pay for proper doctor's salary here they will move to where they can be paid more. This is something you cant blame the government for. Any attempts by them to halt salary rise (remember the more experienced you are the more you want to be paid no matter what kind of job you are in) will make these people leave.
Please stop eyeing the reserves as a source. Once it starts there's no "reason" to stop taking from it. Dont forget if we have no reserves = weak economy/stability = no FDI = no new jobs.
***Anyway*** it's off topic!
Look to the topic title please. Start a new thread about medisave if you want to.
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Back on Topic. Maybe they should out source smoking enforcement like the way ERA did with the parking problem. -
Yes, true you have a point. In this regard, the gov should SERIOUSLY DO SOMETHING about the pathetic Polyclinics - they lack doctors. Why? Because it isn't worthwhile for doctors to work there. Why? Because our gov created such circumstances wherein doctors won't work in Polyclinics!!!Originally posted by CM06:Health cost or infact all living expenses will go up year on year.
Professionals are mobile. We arent. If we cannot afford to pay for proper doctor's salary here they will move to where they can be paid more. This is something you cant blame the government for. Any attempts by them to halt salary rise (remember the more experienced you are the more you want to be paid no matter what kind of job you are in) will make these people leave.
Please stop eyeing the reserves as a source. Once it starts there's no "reason" to stop taking from it. Dont forget if we have no reserves = weak economy/stability = no FDI = no new jobs.
***Anyway*** it's off topic!
Look to the topic title please. Start a new thread about medisave if you want to.
EDIT:
Back on Topic. Maybe they should out source smoking enforcement like the way ERA did with the parking problem.
As for smoking; why the HELL, did our gov come up with such a HALF-ASSED idea of dividing smokers from non-smokers at public food centers and coffee shops??? Half-assed solutions, will only yield half-assed results - if not more social problems - such as arguments and fights at food centers and coffee shops.
I'd say total ban of smoking at coffee shops altogteher. No yellow box or whatever. Just no smoking and sale of ciggies.
I mean, if our gov wants to do something, do it ALL THE WAY!!! Not half in half out!!! -
Doctors wont be wanting to leave unless they know they can make more money outside in private. Simple: Everyone wants cheap medicine/medical and yet you want Lots of professional help. Who's going to foot the bill? Do you suggest taxing the private doctors to subsidise and increase public doctors pay?Originally posted by ShutterBug:Yes, true you have a point. In this regard, the gov should SERIOUSLY DO SOMETHING about the pathetic Polyclinics - they lack doctors. Why? Because it isn't worthwhile for doctors to work there. Why? Because our gov created such circumstances wherein doctors won't work in Polyclinics!!!
As for smoking; why the HELL, did our gov come up with such a HALF-ASSED idea of dividing smokers from non-smokers at public food centers and coffee shops??? Half-assed solutions, will only yield half-assed results - if not more social problems - such as arguments and fights at food centers and coffee shops.
I'd say total ban of smoking at coffee shops altogteher. No yellow box or whatever. Just no smoking and sale of ciggies.
I mean, if our gov wants to do something, do it ALL THE WAY!!! Not half in half out!!!
As for the smoking thing It's good/bad. It's a start. Singapore isnt a country with 100% camera coverage. You cant ban cigarettes You will kill all those smokers right here right now. Gov idea is to make life difficult for them so less will pick up the habit in the future. The problem with the idea is ENFORCEMENT just like every one of our "Fine/s" city. Best way is to outsource to private companies where they have no "quotas" but have "performance records" At least that way more Singaporeans will have jobs. -
This kind of reminds me of some people making out in bed with a girl, and then pulling out just when about to cum....
This is what I think of the smoking ban in coffeeshops.. -
I suggest the gov increase Tax or Medisave contribution to cover this area. But don't expect people to pay 30% or whatever precentage.Originally posted by CM06:Doctors wont be wanting to leave unless they know they can make more money outside in private. Simple: Everyone wants cheap medicine/medical and yet you want Lots of professional help. Who's going to foot the bill? Do you suggest taxing the private doctors to subsidise and increase public doctors pay?
High tax with REAL benefits is more welcome then the crap we are getting now!!! -
You are kidding right? Most of us cannot afford to be taxed anymore at this moment. Then what % do you want us to pay? 10/20? I feel that you will end up paying the same amount but it will become 20% cause the cost increase to pay doctors better.Originally posted by ShutterBug:I suggest the gov increase Tax or Medisave contribution to cover this area. But don't expect people to pay 30% or whatever precentage.
High tax with REAL benefits is more welcome then the crap we are getting now!!!
Dont forget, not everyone gets sick all the time. What medisave does is to provide you with a piggy bank when you get into hospital.
More taxes = less for day to day expenses. No way. Living day to day is hard enough as it is. -
Your taxes go to subsidize the 8$ consultation fee at polyclinics and $5 school fees for your children. How much do you pay in taxes? Do you know that the majority of Singaporeans do not have to pay any taxes at all but benefit from all the services?Originally posted by Lowclassman:The Govt owes us a living!!! If not..... We paid taxes for what and for who?
Even in ancient China............The good emperor will still cough out $$$ from country's reserve or worst from his personal savings to help the poors and saving people in disastrous.
Here, in sg the govt would be more interested in enriching their own pockets.
If you cannot compete, you lose out. The dodo died out when humans, foreign to the island of Mauritius, landed. They were not swift enough to escape and not sufficiently productive to replace their numbers. That's the law of natural selection. If you cannot outcompete foreigners who are more hungry and willing to take less and work more, you will go the way of the dodo and nobosy will shed a tear. -
Your taxes go to subsidize the 8$ consultation fee at polyclinics and $5 school fees for your children. How much do you pay in taxes? Do you know that the majority of Singaporeans do not have to pay any taxes at all but benefit from all the services?Originally posted by Lowclassman:The Govt owes us a living!!! If not..... We paid taxes for what and for who?
Even in ancient China............The good emperor will still cough out $$$ from country's reserve or worst from his personal savings to help the poors and saving people in disastrous.
Here, in sg the govt would be more interested in enriching their own pockets.
If you cannot compete, you lose out. The dodo died out when humans, foreign to the island of Mauritius, landed. They were not swift enough to escape and not sufficiently productive to replace their numbers. That's the law of natural selection. If you cannot outcompete foreigners who are more hungry and willing to take less and work more, you will go the way of the dodo and nobody will shed a tear.