1st they take your jobs, next they want to change yr lives
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Saturday January 13, 12:17 PM
Finding their feet, then fitting in here
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While its efforts to attract foreigners here are bearing fruit, the Government needs to apply the same acumen to making sure they fit in once they land on our shores.
To do so, it needs to stop viewing them in terms of purely dollars and cents — that is, offering them only economic opportunities.
"We need to look at integration policies, which are as complex as our immigration policies Â… What we have not invented are the integration policies after they have entered the door and come in," said Professor Brenda Yeoh, a geography expert at the National University of Singapore, citing her interviews with several skilled emigrants who said gaining Singapore permanent residency or citizenship was just a stepping stone to emigration elsewhere.
Speaking on Thursday at an Institute of Policy Studies forum on migration and social issues, Prof Yeoh said Singapore needs to focus on integrating not only the expat "talents".
"The integration and support mechanisms should go beyond Â… to also the students, the unskilled workers and the spouses. Each category deserves careful consideration. For example, the foreign spouses who come in are not getting support groups."
She added, to TODAY: "There are policies largely aimed at the economic sphere, in terms of managing possible tensions as a result of the competition between local and foreign.
"But what is still very much lacking are policies to do with the other spheres of life. Education of the young is a very important starting point in cultivating a cosmopolitan, tolerant outlook as they interact with foreigners."
Civil society can also play a role in organising activities for foreigners and locals to interact away from the workplace, added Prof Yeoh, who has published books and journals on migration issues.
Sociologist Kwok Kian Woon of the Nanyang Technological University too felt that Singapore "needs to think beyond economics" to create an emotional bond among the foreigners it wants to attract.
"What is so unique about Singapore and what makes it attractive and compelling enough for people to say, 'This is the place that I can give a good part of my life to'?" he said.
Embracing them within a Singapore identity or culture could be one way. But the role of government must be carefully managed. For example, he felt that the early years of the 21st century, when society was undergoing changes and everything was being questioned, had been an opportune time for Singapore to develop its own culture.
But, Associate Professor Kwok, said: "In Singapore, the tension between conservative forces and a newer set of values is almost always managed in a neat and plain way."
When Thursday's session was opened to the floor, a member of the audience said that the Speak Mandarin Campaign was stunting the development of Singaporean culture — by killing off the dialects — "just like the way the Stop At Two policy stunted our birth rates".
Another participant noted that the Chinese-Malay-Indian-Others model of categorising Singaporeans — and which the Government has indicated it would be relooking — was another example of a policy that needs to be changed.
Weighing in, one Permanent Resident said he did not like being labelled a "foreign talent".
He called for Singapore to rethink its stance against dual citizenship — which was outlawed here in 1960 — if it wished to attract foreigners as well as retain its own talents.
Agreeing, Prof Yeoh told TODAY: "The world has changed. While some of these issues (of nation building) are still very much part of what nations have to cope with, people's working lives are not going to be tied to one place." - /st -
dual citizenship - if there is a war, who will they fight for?
if singaporeans take up dual citizenship, and when there is a war, can i seek refuge in my 2nd country and resist call up by my reservist unit? -
If there is a war, how long do you think Singapore can last? No offence, Look at how densely populated and small Singapore is. A bomb could create massive casualities and level places quickly. HDB flats will look like a mini domino rally . Those bomb shelters they built under HDB Flats. They remind me of a pre-prepared mass grave.Originally posted by PoRen:dual citizenship - if there is a war, who will they fight for?
if singaporeans take up dual citizenship, and when there is a war, can i seek refuge in my 2nd country and resist call up by my reservist unit?
Nope , there would not be a war on Singapore unless Indonesia wants to be funny. But it will be stupid . There is nothing to gain from warring on Singapore . War only stems from 3 reasons- Money Power and Greed. If you quote me the iraqi invasion , I will laugh my ass off ....Kuwait has oil . No resources , no oil . If Singapore is levelled - no economic wealth to gain . No power to be gained from taking over a small country.
In an event of a war, Malaysia will have to step in because Singapore is too strategically important to lose to Indonesia . I don't think Malaysia wants Indonesia at its door step . -
Well, I think that if war was to happen, all the so called Foreign Talents will the first to fly away along with many other foreign whatevers. What's left will the core population - the rich will fly away too, leaving the locals who were all these whiled, IGNORED.
Who the hell, you think will fight?
Do you think many will feel they BELONG or that this country belongs to them???
Fight for Singapore? I SREIOUSLY doubt so. Perhaps a handful of gov supporters and of course, those soldiers who have not ran away and defected elsewhere.
All this can and will happen simply because TOO MUCH of everything that has got to do with living in Singapore, is under relentless and illogical control with quite a dash of Shizophrenia. -
huh? who said anything about indonesia? any way indonesia is aldy at its door step...look at borneo and straits of malaccaOriginally posted by fymk:If there is a war, how long do you think Singapore can last? No offence, Look at how densely populated and small Singapore is. A bomb could create massive casualities and level places quickly. HDB flats will look like a mini domino rally . Those bomb shelters they built under HDB Flats. They remind me of a pre-prepared mass grave.
Nope , there would not be a war on Singapore unless Indonesia wants to be funny. But it will be stupid . There is nothing to gain from warring on Singapore . War only stems from 3 reasons- Money Power and Greed. If you quote me the iraqi invasion , I will laugh my ass off ....Kuwait has oil . No resources , no oil . If Singapore is levelled - no economic wealth to gain . No power to be gained from taking over a small country.
In an event of a war, Malaysia will have to step in because Singapore is too strategically important to lose to Indonesia . I don't think Malaysia wants Indonesia at its door step .
i agree with poren...dual citizenship is not feasible here, with NS part of the reason.. -
Nobody said anything about Indonesia except for me in reference to Poren's statement of what may happen during a war. Remember Konfrontasi in history ?Originally posted by Xtrider:huh? who said anything about indonesia? any way indonesia is aldy at its door step...look at borneo and straits of malacca
i agree with poren...dual citizenship is not feasible here, with NS part of the reason..
Sweden has dual citizenship and they have national service. So what's the argument of it not being feasible?
Yes that might encourage an influx of foreigners in but Singaporeans also can go out if they have the skills the world wants instead of sitting at the back and getting worried about foreigners taking over jobs in Singapore only.
The foreigners have 2 doors open in Singapore - their country and Singapore.
Singaporeans only have 1 door open - Singapore - that is unless they choose to migrate like the whole bunch of us in Australia to gain permanent residency.
It is not about the benefit of the foreigners . It is about equalising the playing field.
If a Singaporean doesn't like the pay or salary of the job in Singapore , he would be free to go overseas to get a higher paying job in the second country instead of feeling worried if he was 40 years old and no one wants to employ him.
At the moment , it's foreigner vs Singaporeans 2:1. Have a think about it. -
whatever u say, they will say no first, until such time, at an opportune period, they will come up with a scheme to accomodate...Originally posted by fymk:Nobody said anything about Indonesia except for me in reference to Poren's statement of what may happen during a war. Remember Konfrontasi in history ?
Sweden has dual citizenship and they have national service. So what's the argument of it not being feasible?
Yes that might encourage an influx of foreigners in but Singaporeans also can go out if they have the skills the world wants instead of sitting at the back and getting worried about foreigners taking over jobs in Singapore only.
The foreigners have 2 doors open in Singapore - their country and Singapore.
Singaporeans only have 1 door open - Singapore - that is unless they choose to migrate like the whole bunch of us in Australia to gain permanent residency.
It is not about the benefit of the foreigners . It is about equalising the playing field.
If a Singaporean doesn't like the pay or salary of the job in Singapore , he would be free to go overseas to get a higher paying job in the second country instead of feeling worried if he was 40 years old and no one wants to employ him.
At the moment , it's foreigner vs Singaporeans 2:1. Have a think about it.
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the whole of Europe, with its massive land and population, how long did it last during WW2? Malaysia didn't last any longer than anybody expected either. On the other hand, Israel has not been wiped off the surface of the earth after several wars with enemies many times its size. Outcome of wars are not determined by land size.Originally posted by fymk:If there is a war, how long do you think Singapore can last? No offence, Look at how densely populated and small Singapore is. A bomb could create massive casualities and level places quickly. HDB flats will look like a mini domino rally . Those bomb shelters they built under HDB Flats. They remind me of a pre-prepared mass grave.
Nope , there would not be a war on Singapore unless Indonesia wants to be funny. But it will be stupid . There is nothing to gain from warring on Singapore . War only stems from 3 reasons- Money Power and Greed. If you quote me the iraqi invasion , I will laugh my ass off ....Kuwait has oil . No resources , no oil . If Singapore is levelled - no economic wealth to gain . No power to be gained from taking over a small country.
In an event of a war, Malaysia will have to step in because Singapore is too strategically important to lose to Indonesia . I don't think Malaysia wants Indonesia at its door step .
Singapore were occupied during WW2, ever wonder why did the Japs had to take the trouble? Our enemy will laugh their ass off if truely Singaporean believe that there would be no war.
In an event of a war, Singapore will have to step in to prevent Malaysia from being over run by our common enemy. We don't want unwanted people at our door step.
It would be interesting to hear from you how singapore can be levelled? -
"1st they take your jobs, next they want to change yr lives." Those who allowed them to come in are not directly being affected, they are still getting their pay and bonuses. Be wary of the man who urges an action in which he himself incurs no risk!
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Of course lah .....u know I know everybody know ....Originally posted by eyebuzz:whatever u say, they will say no first, until such time, at an opportune period, they will come up with a scheme to accomodate...
until suddenly 1 day ..... then we all also know why lor -
Japanese wanted domination - utter and complete imperial domination of Asia. Singapore , aka part of Malaya back then , had the British there therefore Singapore must be invaded . Understand?Originally posted by sgdiehard:the whole of Europe, with its massive land and population, how long did it last during WW2? Malaysia didn't last any longer than anybody expected either. On the other hand, Israel has not been wiped off the surface of the earth after several wars with enemies many times its size. Outcome of wars are not determined by land size.
Singapore were occupied during WW2, ever wonder why did the Japs had to take the trouble? Our enemy will laugh their ass off if truely Singaporean believe that there would be no war.
In an event of a war, Singapore will have to step in to prevent Malaysia from being over run by our common enemy. We don't want unwanted people at our door step.
It would be interesting to hear from you how singapore can be levelled?
ever heard of hydrogen bombs? Nuclear weapons? Forget the A bombs on Nagasaki and hiroshima...you have the H bombs as well as very advanced thermonuclear weapons . H bomb makes A bomb look like a freaking toy. Why do you think people are so worried about North Korea's arsenal? -
So learn from the Israelis...pre-emptive attack...flatten their homes before they have a chance to attack us, kill their children before they can grow up to shoot us, torture their soldiers to get intelligence and then bomb them to oblivion before their planes can even take offOriginally posted by fymk:If there is a war, how long do you think Singapore can last? No offence, Look at how densely populated and small Singapore is. A bomb could create massive casualities and level places quickly. HDB flats will look like a mini domino rally . Those bomb shelters they built under HDB Flats. They remind me of a pre-prepared mass grave.
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In an Interview with a HR who is also PR asked me this Question, Why do you tell me that you have to go reservist next month when you haven't been accepted for the job yet?Originally posted by PoRen:dual citizenship - if there is a war, who will they fight for?
if singaporeans take up dual citizenship, and when there is a war, can i seek refuge in my 2nd country and resist call up by my reservist unit?
"Do you love your country this much?" -
You should write to the Government on this.Originally posted by NotFromVenus:In an Interview with a HR who is also PR asked me this Question, Why do you tell me that you have to go reservist next month when you haven't been accepted for the job yet?
"Do you love your country this much?"
And you should write to Straits Times.
It is really an outrage that a PR dare make a comment this way when it is part and parcel of Singaporean citizenship. -
Ai yo .....look at the backyard...got nuclear arsenal or not?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:So learn from the Israelis...pre-emptive attack...flatten their homes before they have a chance to attack us, kill their children before they can grow up to shoot us, torture their soldiers to get intelligence and then bomb them to oblivion before their planes can even take off -
what we're facing here is not the problem of dual citizenship, many israelis have dual citizenship but still volunteer to serve in the idf, take that guy who got kidnapped for example. the problem is loyalty. why should people feel compelled to be loyal to a nation that they are not proud of, that has kept them in the dark and manipulated them like little puppets(albeit the fact that majority willingly allow this to happen and hence deserve what they've allowed to happen upon themselves). you can force a man to take up a rifle, point one at him and send him to the frontline under threat of death but you cant guarantee that he wont throw down his gun and surrender (eg. iraq) because he see's no valid reason to fight.Originally posted by PoRen:dual citizenship - if there is a war, who will they fight for?
if singaporeans take up dual citizenship, and when there is a war, can i seek refuge in my 2nd country and resist call up by my reservist unit? -
You obviously have no idea of Singapore's "defensive" strategy. Our troops are trained mainly in jungle warfare (seen jungles in Singapore?), an important proportion of our troops are armour (ATTACK units), our troops practice beaching and storming of beaches (why would we want to do that in Singapore?) while our air force practises air support (not just interception).Originally posted by fymk:If there is a war, how long do you think Singapore can last? No offence, Look at how densely populated and small Singapore is. A bomb could create massive casualities and level places quickly. HDB flats will look like a mini domino rally . Those bomb shelters they built under HDB Flats. They remind me of a pre-prepared mass grave.
I hope I've not spoken too much, but this away-from-home Singaporean needs to let our citizens know that Singapore is "defensible"... -
israel ambiguously admitted to being a nuclear power and uncle sam backs them because they're his proxy soldier against the arabs. what is singapore? a nation whose navy ships..ahhhemm...boats split into half because a giant oil tanker rammed into them and those 3G army couldnt catch 2 bandits armed with 1 pistol on tekong?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:So learn from the Israelis...pre-emptive attack...flatten their homes before they have a chance to attack us, kill their children before they can grow up to shoot us, torture their soldiers to get intelligence and then bomb them to oblivion before their planes can even take off -
strategy is different from reality. bay of pigs, vietnam, iraq all had glorious strategies and supposed results, look what happened in the endOriginally posted by StMichael:You obviously have no idea of Singapore's "defensive" strategy. Our troops are trained mainly in jungle warfare (seen jungles in Singapore?), an important proportion of our troops are armour (ATTACK units), our troops practice beaching and storming of beaches (why would we want to do that in Singapore?) while our air force practises air support (not just interception).
I hope I've not spoken too much, but this away-from-home Singaporean needs to let our citizens know that Singapore is "defensible"... -
This really makes us think which one is more important.Originally posted by NotFromVenus:In an Interview with a HR who is also PR asked me this Question, Why do you tell me that you have to go reservist next month when you haven't been accepted for the job yet?
"Do you love your country this much?" -
Digression from the main topic again :Originally posted by StMichael:You obviously have no idea of Singapore's "defensive" strategy. Our troops are trained mainly in jungle warfare (seen jungles in Singapore?), an important proportion of our troops are armour (ATTACK units), our troops practice beaching and storming of beaches (why would we want to do that in Singapore?) while our air force practises air support (not just interception).
I hope I've not spoken too much, but this away-from-home Singaporean needs to let our citizens know that Singapore is "defensible"...
Unless the troops are made of kryptonite , thermonuclear weapons have NO preventative effect. Take for example , Hiroshima and Nagasaki - do you think there were remaining japanese soldiers on the ground to defend?
Like I say now the A bombs used on Japan are a toy to the H bombs in nuclear armed countries. And look at chemical weapons - look at the intense damage of what polonium can do. Silent killing ...until it is too late.
The only useful allies Singapore has is USA who is using it as a base, and China. The same USA and China that both have nuclear arsenals. Countries like them which have an vested strategic or economic interest in Singapore are the political block against invasions. Same way Israel is surviving except Malaysia won't let any such thing happen to Singapore because any damage to Singapore will overflow across the border . Without the Americans ( who want a base in the middle east while investing in oil there) or the Europeans (same case)- you think Israel will still be standing?
Singapore also has another advantage - if it is levelled , it is more troublesome for the invaders to rebuild it since it has no other natural resources except a nice port harbour .
To a certain degree your statement is correct but a very small degree. The only defensible use NS has is really against Malaysia or Indonesia if they decide to take over . Malaysia is booming now and has no interest in Singapore. Indonesia is too unstable internally to even try because Malaysia will step in . Singapore acts as the buffer between Malaysia and Indonesia.
Besides regional stability is the key to economic boom - everyone benefits. Wars drain resources - look at USA in Iraq - they spend like crazy on their resources but they can afford it and they probably want to test out weaponry there . Look at Vietnam war - they tested napalm and agent orange . -
They should sack the fellow from that company's HR. That is very ungrateful of a foreigner to voice out this way against a Singaporean .Originally posted by (human):This really makes us think which one is more important. -
And your Employer will appreciate you going RT ? Instead of pretending to be busy doing free OT?Originally posted by fymk:They should sack the fellow from that company's HR. That is very ungrateful of a foreigner to voice out this way against a Singaporean .
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Not working in SingaporeOriginally posted by NotFromVenus:And your Employer will appreciate you going RT ? Instead of pretending to be busy doing free OT? 
. I already know how Singapore works .
OT is paid for me in terms of time in lieu unless they want me to work in ungodly hours ( specified as before 7 am and after 7 pm )
However from the experience in Australia - they allow Australians defence leave for reservist duties .
They not only allow it , they cannot object to it and it is not compulsory to let them know that a person is actually in the reservist forces until you are fully employed and you get a deployment letter.
That was what my colleague told me about the system. Some girl took off for 3 months for reservist training. Furthermore, the organisation need not pay that 3 months . The reservist training pays the reservist for 3 months.
Just adding lessons learnt overseas to overcome the foreign talent policies . Not sure if it is the same with Singapore. -
Hey , Why aren't there FTs working in our grassroots organisations ? They are part and parcel of Singapore?
