Thai bully SG & downgrade relationship
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Ok... I agree with you.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:First, Chee wouldn't be the first. Where is that fugitive Francis Seow? If Chee wants to go to China and if China is not polluted enough as it is, then it's good riddance to bad rubbish.
Mr Chee is a horrid example, shouldn't have used him in my arguments. I would wish to see him go away too...
Anyway, imagine a figure in Singapore accused of all the crimes listed above, I am very sure Singapore would reacted the same way? -
Hi All.. I am Thai. I hope I can share some Thai point of view.
1. There is nothing behind Thai junta govt. decision. They just try to bully a small country like Singapore, but not succesfully.
2. They are so disturbed by Thaksin who travel around the world. This create uncertenty at home. Most of the Thai still in love with Thaksin. Everytime they see Thaksin 's picture, it create emotional feeling.
Thai junta is very afraid of riot, mass protest from the Thai people. Since almost every coup happend in the past ended with the mass protest. And this one is likely to have the same fate.
3. Thai media is not reliable. Don't belive them. They usually lie. Thai middle classed and Thai elite class have been propagandized by them. Only those who really benefit from Thaksin's policy directly, can survive from that black propaganda. This is the situation in Thailand, the Big Lie is happening in Thailand.
4. Singapore is an honor country. There's no reason for Singapore to regret it. The fault is with Thai stupid PM. Since it's one of two country that ruled by military. ASEAN leaders just finish meeting in Phillipine. Singapore Deputry PM is the one who proposed the new idea of punishing coup d'etat in ASEAN members.
5. Thaksin has so much money and is a good business man. It's so normal for such kind of person to travel around the region. SG don't have to listen to the other. Why they have to?
6. The Junta come into power with bad intention. They used the King's name to make the coup. In fact the King already passed the law with special supportive comments attached to the law to have a general election on 15/10/06. But the coup took place on 19/09/06.
They lie to everyone that the King backed them. The truth is the King doens't want to have any bloodeshed in the country, so no choice. This kind of events happen to him so many times during his 60 years in the position.
7. All the accusation to Thaksin, can't be proven. For example, the Shincorp-Temasek tax-free deal. It's really no tax. But the media just use their trick to blame him. (the share in his left hand pocket move to his right pocket bf selling to Temasek, there is no point of taxing him.)
Thaksin already checked with the tax office, they already made official statement saying no tax for that. .....many many more of this kind of story.
8. If you still can't imagine what I try to explain, just look at Myanmar military Junta. It's quite the same story. Why SG has to regret to what that type of govt. say.
9. Among Thai, they are afraid of Sigapore using stronger reaction. Thailand is much much weaker then SG now. No one in the world wants to make friend with Thai govt.
There are still many many more reasons. I know your concern. But there's nothing behind Thai's reaction, there's nothing. If SG react stronger, that could even make Thai middle class go to the street to protest their govt from destroying the friendship among the two countries.
Regards, -
But the reality is that Thais faced a seemingly insoluble political dilemma, Thaksin had placed himself in such a situation it was impossible to dislodge him.For those of you who don't know about some of the shady deals. While it is argued that corruption exists in politics, the fact is that he is still a political exile in Thailand.
As a democratic nation, thing should be resolved democratically and not by usurping position with military might. In the case of Taiwan, even though the president is increasing unpopular, they seek to end it using democratic means and not use might. Furthermore the charges laid out are not proven and have little or no evidence. That is why he is not charged nor any evidence shown to prove him guilty at this point of time. Looking at the other side of the picture, he is very capable in dealing with economics in Thailand. Under his wing, Thai recover from the 1997 economic crisis. The GDP increase from 4.9 trillion to 7.1 trillion. It has also improved the life of the poor substantially by increasing their income by as much as 40% and poverty level in the country drop from 21.3% to 11.3%. That is why he is particualrly popular among the poorer people of Thailand. His education and healthcare policies also help the poorer people in Thailand achieve a better life compared with other prime minister. Although he is charge for corruption, corruption level in Thailand actually drop significantly
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksin
There is nothing wrong about the sale of Shin Corp. Period. Individuals who sell shares on the stock exchange pay no capital gains tax. That is the law of Thailand.
Supporters, however, counter that Thailand's mobile phone industry is highly competitive, and that little criticism was raised when the Norwegian firm Telenor acquired the country's second largest mobile operator. There was also no criticism when Temasek-owned DBS bought a large stake in Siam Commercial Bank (majority owned by King Bhumibol Adulyadej). Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva had earlier criticized Thaksin for not sufficiently opening up the Thai telecom sector to foreigners. Democrat Party deputy leader Korn Chatikavanij noted "I have always said Shin [Corporation] was safer in Singapore hands than in Thaksin's hands".[117] Supporters further counter that the complete sale of Shin Corporation by the Shinawatra-Damapong families had been a long-standing demand of some public groups,[118] as it would allow Thaksin to undertake his duties as Prime Minister without accusation of conflicts of interest. -
I'm Thai and I wanna say that we 've never selected this government. They robbed our country from Thai people. Perfectly stupid!
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Everyone knows a bankrupt cannot travel without applying for permit, don't be so eager to laugh at others...Originally posted by oxford mushroom:haha..shootong yourself in the foot again? Chee is not allowed to go abroad without permission precisely because he is a bankrupt. If he can afford to fly overseas, pay up his debts first.
Our esteemed gov can make so many exceptions for Durai I'm sure the same can be done for Dr Chee...he expressedly applied for the travel abroad but was turned down without reason. -
Is it mere coincidence that Singapore is taking up the ASEAN chair and the ASEAN charter is crafted and pushed ahead by our boys, that this is happening now?
Looks like a case of the Thai junta(I would not even deem it a government) finding that their influence and their ability to inspire trust in foreign opinions of their current regime slipping away. When you have a coup, you'd best be prepared to suffer the tough way.
It is a good sign that ASEAN is going ahead to discuss issues relating to security, democracy and issues concerning coup d'etat. -
Our esteemed gov can make so many exceptions for Durai I'm sure the same can be done for Dr Chee...he expressedly applied for the travel abroad but was turned down without reason.
Before Durai scandal, I thought NKF is never a government organisation... I always wondered why does Durai misdeeds have anything to do with the government ? -
I find it strange that people here can talk about democracy when they can't even get rid of a despotic ruling party. I think it's right that Thais got rid of Thaksin, or his party could become another like ours. That would be a very sad day for Thailand. I appreciate what is being done now in Thailand to get rid of all the corrupt practices in the past. Remember Mahathir introducing currency control to save Malaysia, instead of following IMF? Thailand would be better off without Thaksin.Originally posted by paulsg:I'm Thai and I wanna say that we 've never selected this government. They robbed our country from Thai people. Perfectly stupid! -
Tell me, then what company/organisation in Singapore can carry the word NATIONAL if NKF isn't governments???Originally posted by socrates:Before Durai scandal, I thought NKF is never a government organisation... I always wondered why does Durai misdeeds have anything to do with the government ? -
Singapore and Thailand have a good relationship for a long time.
This means the nation as a whole.
What's happening today is just the ruling of a group of "gangsters with guns" point to Thai people's head. Thais can do nothing, we even hardly express our 'opposite' opinions.
From the constitutional view, PM Thaksin is still Thailand's legally Prime Minister. Those gangsters are illegally coup who have death or life time prisoning penalty, according to our last 1997 constitution. Everything they are doing today is not legally accepted, it is just a 'rule of guns'.
Not only poorer people are favourited for PM Thaksin, but also most of middleclass people. More than half of Thais elected him for 3 times in a role.
Those 'gangsters' has no rights, what so ever, to rule Thailand. Our beloved King is a democratic man, he never has had willingly endorsed any coup.
The only reason he complies with the coup is because he doesn't want to see
his people's blood on the street.
So, whatever this "so called" current Thai Government does, has nothing relating to thai people and our beloved King.
My dear Singaporean friends, please understand the truth that is currently happened in Thailand.
Finally, please be confident that we will install back our legally democratic government as soon as possible.
Sincerely Yours,
1ThaiVoice -
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
Using Singapore as a 'punching bag' is an easy way in deflecting their own internal problems - corruptions and threats from terrorism
[b]Thailand down grade relationship with SG
--SG MFA
8.IN FORCE ,I TRUST.[/b]
Corruption is one huge problem that they never been able to solve, from
politicians right down to any tom, dick and harry on the street.
S'pore government must be blamed for be so compliant.
Every year we dish out so much giving out free scholarships to the Thais for the past decades. Millions of dollars
When they need help to revamp their education system, the silly little Red dots are ever so obliging to kowtow to them. Who to blame?
Tell them no need to upgrade relationship in the future
Red dots can find true & lasting friendships in Russia, Middle-East,
India, China, South Korea etc. -
Everyone is entitled to 'rights', until such time when they abuse their 'rights' will it be revoked.Originally posted by socrates:My point is that Singapore and Singaporean has every right to visit anyone or let anyone visit them. We shouldn't let ourselves be dictated by other countries on what we should do or not. If we only care to appease countries, then we shouldn't push Myanmar to democracy, we shouldn't question Indonesia to stop their burning of the forest, we shouldn't even cane Micheal when he vandalised all the cars and he can vandalised more if he wants to. In the end Singaporean have no rights and power and it becomes a shame to be Singaporean. Let me ask, what is the reason given by the Thai government for this backlash ? Thai citizen cannot go to Singapore for social visit or Singapore foreign minister have to seek approval from Thai Gov to see an old friend ? What is the charge in this case ? Thaksin holds no official position, probably not even a job and how could his visit be classified as anything other than personal ?
I have the right to invite anyone to my house, but i am also obliged to keep my stereo volume down so as not to incite my neighbours. This is not an act of appeasement, but common courtesy. If our govt had informed the current Thai govt of Thaksin's visit before hand, the response would surely have been obvious.
While our govt responds by claiming that they were 'not informed' of any restrictions on Thaksin by the current Thai govt, what stopped them from pre-empting the Thai govt about a visiting political exile, well aware of the political repercussions and diplomatic fallout?
This stinks of damage control and mitigation, rather then defending the right course of action.
Michael Fay should have been caned, just as the Filipino maid was served sentence despite the public outcry. But there's no stopping our govt from adopting a more open approach by hearing out the respective govts (for all the good they will do) and then pass judgement. It slows down the process, but does not impede it, nor circumvent our sovereign rights, and gives a humane approach to our actions.
All this can only improve our standing in the international community. -
Thaksin's meeting with Singapore not personal one : Abhisit
PM Surayud said his government took careful consideration before issuing measures on SingaporeDemocrat Party will find it difficult to believe that Thaksin's points of discussion with Singapore's Foreign Minister S Jayakumar were personal in nature, its leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/01/17/headlines/headlines_30024379.php
The discussion could not be "how are you? I'm fine," Abhisit said.
"Thaksin's personal matters were always his business and for his business gains. As we know, his business have caused problems for Thailand, such as sales of Shin Corps to Temasek of Singapore. Even when he was prime minister and negotiated with foreign countries, he always took opportunities to negotiate for his own benefits."
The Thai government on Tuesday suspend indefinitely all high-level meetings with Singapore, including a ministerial dialogue next month, to protest the island's insensitivity to Thailand's political situation.
The decision was made after deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra was allowed to visit Singapore and met Singapore's Deputy Prime Minister S Jayakumar.
The move was retaliation against the island-state's decision to allowed Thaksin to use it as a launching pad to attack the Thai government.
Abhisi said however, Thai government should be careful as Singapore and Thailand are both Asean member countries.
He also referred to Thaksin's interview with CNN in which he said he would retire from politics, saying "enough is enough."
Instead of saying he has enough of politics, Abhisit said Thaksin needs to state clearly that he will stop creating problems for Thailand.
Meanwhile Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said Thai government has taken careful consideration behind the measures taken up against Singapore and should not worry so much about the consequences.
"The government has made its decision on the matters with careful consideration. So we are confident of what we have done. We should not worry about the consequences," he said.
"Thai Foreign Minister [Nitya Pibulsonggram] informed his Singaporean counterpart before announcing the measures," Surayud said.
Singapore has insisted that Thaksin's visit was a personal one and Jayakumar was an old friend of Thaksin.
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The Thai citizens who benefited from Thaksin's prime-ministership need to understand this.
It is claimed that increased rural income resulting from anti poverty projects - which relies on the middle class for taxes - has been spent on the mobile phones and pick-up trucks and other flashy items.
The Robin Hood program looks fantastic on the surface but when the rural majority started using mobile phones, some of these tax money went to Thaksin's Shin Corp. Isn't this an abuse of his position to enrich himself?
And there were many other reasons about Thaksin that the middle class was unhappy about.Wanting Thaksin to go, you cannot just tap him on the shoulder and say "please step down". You need force like the coup d'etat. Can you blame the middle class for wanting to see him ousted? -
Originally posted by 1ThaiVoice:Singapore and Thailand have a good relationship for a long time.
This means the nation as a whole.
What's happening today is just the ruling of a group of "gangsters with guns" point to Thai people's head. Thais can do nothing, we even hardly express our 'opposite' opinions.
From the constitutional view, PM Thaksin is still Thailand's legally Prime Minister. Those gangsters are illegally coup who have death or life time prisoning penalty, according to our last 1997 constitution. Everything they are doing today is not legally accepted, it is just a 'rule of guns'.
Not only poorer people are favourited for PM Thaksin, but also most of middleclass people. More than half of Thais elected him for 3 times in a role.
Those 'gangsters' has no rights, what so ever, to rule Thailand. Our beloved King is a democratic man, he never has had willingly endorsed any coup.
The only reason he complies with the coup is because he doesn't want to see
his people's blood on the street.
So, whatever this "so called" current Thai Government does, has nothing relating to thai people and our beloved King.
My dear Singaporean friends, please understand the truth that is currently happened in Thailand.
Finally, please be confident that we will install back our legally democratic government as soon as possible.
Sincerely Yours,
1ThaiVoice
We hear you loud and clear, my friend, but take note that there are some frustrating people here trying to hammer the singapore government for whatever reasons. I laugh when the non Thai said that Thailand is better without Thaksin. I laugh when people talk about democracy but support a military coup, may be they think the Taiwanese military should be used to oust ah bian. Thai military is known to be capable of shooting students on the street and I guess the King really don't want that to happen again. Its sad.Originally posted by paulsg:I'm Thai and I wanna say that we 've never selected this government. They robbed our country from Thai people. Perfectly stupid!
There are some Singaporean here who cannot migrate because other countries don't want them, they can't vote the PAP out cause there are no credible replacement, they can't gather enough people to go on the streets like the Thai and the Taiwanese, deep down inside they really wish singapore military could also launch a coup and take over the government, but, alas, they also don't want to do NS....
Personally, your Thai government changed so often in the past, don't know which one to listen to. Thaksin appears to the most popular one, voted in democratically 3 times, now some middle class want him out, must be because they didn't get what they want. My friends in Thailand will continue to be my friends, welcome in Singapore anytime, but if your government continue to change laws and regulations like you change the government, I will pull out my very little investment there, and I believe my company would do the same, the angmoh want democracy, you know.
I am a singaporean, I vote for WP, I visit Thailand 7 times last year, I wish your military return the government to the people, whoever they are, and may the military stays out of all governments, Thailand or anywhere else. -
2.Now Thai already announced the penalty. SG have to play withOriginally posted by BillyBong:...All this can only improve our standing in the international community.
Thai till end of game,since already pay the price.
3.THai should invite SG top officails in Sg to Thai Embassy
for a Tom Yam soup high tea to 'request' them,in private,
not to keep him in SG any more.
i think that will be more effective.
4.SG eat soft but not hard.The worst is Thai carry one big eye and one
small eye.Thai never scold UK and PRC for keeping him for months.
But scold SG for keeping him for Days!! -
SG was used to scare other countriesOriginally posted by lionnoisy:2.Now Thai already announced the penalty. SG have to play with
Thai till end of game,since already pay the price.
3.THai should invite SG top officails in Sg to Thai Embassy
for a Tom Yam soup high tea to 'request' them,in private,
not to keep him in SG any more.
i think that will be more effective.
4.SG eat soft but not hard.The worst is Thai carry one big eye and one
small eye.Thai never scold UK and PRC for keeping him for months.
But scold SG for keeping him for Days!!The move was seen as the strongest protest against a foreign government in recent history and many considered it a signal for others to exercise care in their treatment of Mr Thaksin.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/17Jan2007_news01.php
A source who asked not to be named said the ministry felt ''the Singaporean government received the deposed prime minister in a better manner than during a private visit he paid in late 2005 before his family sold shares in Shin Corp to Temasek''. -
Singapore is small what to do... but then again... Thai is really stupid... imagine what we can help their economy... we almost bought over their telco...
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even Thai FM admitted The meeting with DPM Jayakuma was purely social and private
Foreign Minister Nitya Pibulsonggram played down the Singapore report. Mr Thaksin was in Singapore on a private visit, he said.
According to diplomats, Mr Thaksin had asked to meet Mr Jayakumar, who is an old friend.
The meeting was purely social and private, said Mr Nitya. The foreign ministry had no comment. -
Originally posted by lionnoisy:2.Now Thai already announced the penalty. SG have to play with
Thai till end of game,since already pay the price.
3.THai should invite SG top officails in Sg to Thai Embassy
for a Tom Yam soup high tea to 'request' them,in private,
not to keep him in SG any more.
i think that will be more effective.
4.SG eat soft but not hard.The worst is Thai carry one big eye and one
small eye.Thai never scold UK and PRC for keeping him for months.
But scold SG for keeping him for Days!!
My friend lionnoisy,Originally posted by 1ThaiVoice:Singapore and Thailand have a good relationship for a long time.
This means the nation as a whole.
What's happening today is just the ruling of a group of "gangsters with guns" point to Thai people's head. Thais can do nothing, we even hardly express our 'opposite' opinions.
From the constitutional view, PM Thaksin is still Thailand's legally Prime Minister. Those gangsters are illegally coup who have death or life time prisoning penalty, according to our last 1997 constitution. Everything they are doing today is not legally accepted, it is just a 'rule of guns'.
Not only poorer people are favourited for PM Thaksin, but also most of middleclass people. More than half of Thais elected him for 3 times in a role.
Those 'gangsters' has no rights, what so ever, to rule Thailand. Our beloved King is a democratic man, he never has had willingly endorsed any coup.
The only reason he complies with the coup is because he doesn't want to see
his people's blood on the street.
So, whatever this "so called" current Thai Government does, has nothing relating to thai people and our beloved King.
My dear Singaporean friends, please understand the truth that is currently happened in Thailand.
Finally, please be confident that we will install back our legally democratic government as soon as possible.
As I said above, they are not Thais' representatives. Thay are just a "gangsters with guns".
Most of Thai people now even do not consider them "Thais". They just came in to protect their benefits losted under PM Thaksin government.
Needless to say what are all those they protected. I believe you know
what kind of benefits they losted.
Please do not consider them as "The Government of The Kingdom of Thailand".
Your neighbour,
1ThaiVoice -
I am very sure you are not thai... thais seldom use wanna.Originally posted by paulsg:I'm Thai and I wanna say that we 've never selected this government. They robbed our country from Thai people. Perfectly stupid! -
Originally posted by ninefold9:
Yes but i still remember our pm lee sien long go taiwan... he is smart but still step on china's toes.
Using Singapore as a [b]'punching bag' is an easy way in deflecting their own internal problems - corruptions and threats from terrorism
Corruption is one huge problem that they never been able to solve, from
politicians right down to any tom, dick and harry on the street.
S'pore government must be blamed for be so compliant.
Every year we dish out so much giving out free scholarships to the Thais for the past decades. Millions of dollars
When they need help to revamp their education system, the silly little Red dots are ever so obliging to kowtow to them. Who to blame?
Tell them no need to upgrade relationship in the future
Red dots can find true & lasting friendships in Russia, Middle-East,
India, China, South Korea etc.
[/b]
Wah millions of dollars for scholarship? Where you get the info? I also want scholarship
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Hi guys, wow that's alot of stuff I have been missing out.Originally posted by banzie:Singapore is small what to do... but then again... Thai is really stupid... imagine what we can help their economy... we almost bought over their telco...
I agree with some of the stuff that you guys have been writing about, I will probably need some time to sieve through all the information, but I would like to point this one out first...
It is very very very wrong of you Mr. Banzie to say that Thais are stupid, Thaksin sold Shin Corp to Temasek, the general populace of Thailand had no say over this matter. If Thaksin has every intention of selling Shin Corp, no matter how darn smart you are, there is nothing you can do. If you wish to comment that someone is stupid, PLEASE SPECIFY. -
2.Like other countries,SG have no choice but to accept the Generals etcOriginally posted by 1ThaiVoice:My friend lionnoisy,
As I said above, they are not Thais' representatives. Thay are just a "gangsters with guns".
Most of Thai people now even do not consider them "Thais". They just came in to protect their benefits losted under PM Thaksin government.
Needless to say what are all those they protected. I believe you know
what kind of benefits they losted.
Please do not consider them as "The Government of The Kingdom of Thailand".
as legal governments.What options SG has? -
I find it strange that people here can talk about democracy when they can't even get rid of a despotic ruling party. I think it's right that Thais got rid of Thaksin, or his party could become another like ours. That would be a very sad day for Thailand. I appreciate what is being done now in Thailand to get rid of all the corrupt practices in the past. Remember Mahathir introducing currency control to save Malaysia, instead of following IMF? Thailand would be better off without Thaksin.
I am surprised that you rather consider a military coup government better than a democratically elected government. Why do you think that the current military lead government will not become the "despotic ruling party". If you look at modern history, military lead government have a higher chance of becoming the "despotic ruling party" which you hateTell me, then what company/organisation in Singapore can carry the word NATIONAL if NKF isn't governments???
National (Panasonic) and National Instrument (selling sensors) are some of the companies that have no affiliation with their government or singapore government. I base my conclusion that NKF is not linked witht he government from the below statement
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/cna/cgi-bin/search/search_7days.pl?status=&search=durai&id=252139
Lawyer Chia Boon Teck, acting for former NKF chairman Richard Yong and ex-NKF treasurer Loo Say San, pointed out that Lim was the one who coaxed Durai into preventing a Health Ministry official from sitting in the Executive Committee as an observer.Using Singapore as a 'punching bag' is an easy way in deflecting their own internal problems - corruptions and threats from terrorism
Don't be too hasty to give such judgement yet... Singapore and Thailand have been good neighbours that had helped each other to grow for many years and for many years to come. This is but a small incident and should not hinder the relationship in the long run
Corruption is one huge problem that they never been able to solve, from
politicians right down to any tom, dick and harry on the street.
S'pore government must be blamed for be so compliant.
Every year we dish out so much giving out free scholarships to the Thais for the past decades. Millions of dollars
When they need help to revamp their education system, the silly little Red dots are ever so obliging to kowtow to them. Who to blame?
Tell them no need to upgrade relationship in the future
Red dots can find true & lasting friendships in Russia, Middle-East,
India, China, South Korea etc.The Thai citizens who benefited from Thaksin's prime-ministership need to understand this.
The overall income of Thai increase, not just the poorer people. The overall economy and income improve and with that increase the budget of the government. Before Thaksin becomes Prime Minister he already is a business man with Shin Corp. The growth of telecommunication is not localised in Thailand only but is a worldwide phenomenon and one cannot say they purposely increase the ease of telecommunication to earn money from it. Furthermore telecommunicaton competition is encouraged in Thailand. If Thaksin make use of his political clout for his personal gain, then why are there other foreign telecommunication company allowed in Thailand ?
It is claimed that increased rural income resulting from anti poverty projects - which relies on the middle class for taxes - has been spent on the mobile phones and pick-up trucks and other flashy items.
The Robin Hood program looks fantastic on the surface but when the rural majority started using mobile phones, some of these tax money went to Thaksin's Shin Corp. Isn't this an abuse of his position to enrich himself?
And there were many other reasons about Thaksin that the middle class was unhappy about.Wanting Thaksin to go, you cannot just tap him on the shoulder and say "please step down". You need force like the coup d'etat. Can you blame the middle class for wanting to see him ousted?