Thai bully SG & downgrade relationship
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Thai only dare to say what to Singapore only. Thaksin had been in UK and US most of the times do the thai government got the balls to say what they said to singapore to them...oh just a reminder Mr Thaksin also went to China.
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Singapore is only a small island,any country can bully us,no country give a damn about our government......It is just that our PAP government always propaganda on the newspaper that mislead ppl that Singapore is the head leader in the region,thats cause some ppl to think that our government is "Big",but actually,other country dont give a damn about our government.
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He didn't just stepped on China's toe. He realised that he stepped on China's toe, then he stepped on Taiwan's toe just to even the scores. Thereafter, you have both China and Taiwan hating Singapore.Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:Yes but i still remember our pm lee sien long go taiwan... he is smart but still step on china's toes.
Wah millions of dollars for scholarship? Where you get the info? I also want scholarship
What kind of stupid diplomacy is that? -
Did Thaksin visit the British political leaders? Did he make a private visit with any US political leader? Did he go China political leaders' place and talk cock?Originally posted by tarutaru:Thai only dare to say what to Singapore only. Thaksin had been in UK and US most of the times do the thai government got the balls to say what they said to singapore to them...oh just a reminder Mr Thaksin also went to China.
If the Thai junta make a nuisance because of Thaksin's visit to Singapore, I think the junta was being unreasonable; If the junta make noise because of Thaksin's "private" visit, given the recent Shin Corp deal, (which means buying over a Thai satelite) it is certainly not a baseless accusation. -
A PM's "brilliant" diplomatic strategy. Too chim for anyone who has an average and above IQ to comprehen.Originally posted by maurizio13:He didn't just stepped on China's toe. He realised that he stepped on China's toe, then he stepped on Taiwan's toe just to even the scores. Thereafter, you have both China and Taiwan hating Singapore.
What kind of stupid diplomacy is that? -
How Thaksin could have played a pivotal role in Thailand's recovery in the Asian Financial Crisis is beyond me as he held the post of Deputy Prime Minister position for only 3 months after which he left the post. He was only elected to power in 2001.
I am not pro-Thaksin, neither am I anti-Thaksin. The coup was undemocratic and undoubtedly a step backwards for democracy in Thailand. Thaksin for all his alleged crimes (I use the word alleged unless proven guilty or otherwise), introduced policies that benefited the rural poor (whether or not such populist policies served in garnering support is also another question which I do not wish to touch upon).
However, an accused will remain an accused in the eyes of the law unless proven otherwise, we do not judge an accused based on his merits but rather the crimes that he is accused of unless such rules are played out differently in SGForumers' court?
Two facts were apparent during the recent saga.
1) Thaksin's meeting with Singapore's Deputy PM
2) Thaksin's interview by CNN while in Singapore.
The points brought up by fellow forumers downplay or ignore these facts, but instead seek to harp on the merits of Thaksin, not the alleged crimes that he is accused of. Whether or not Thaksin is guilty is up to the investigation board to judge, we have no right whatsoever to pass judgments but to ignore the fact that he is a political exile is just being plain ignorant. Until he is proven innocent of his alleged crimes, our Singapore Government should not allow itself to be a pawn in this political mess.
Singapore Government has shown great insensitivity by allowing a political exile to meet up with a high ranking Cabinet Minister . Singapore Government has shown greater insensitivity in allowing herself to be a platform for ThaksinÂ’s games.
I assure you my views are not that of my own. We heard the views of two Thais (incidentally both registered on the same day and both of which expresses support for Thaksin), but over here in Thailand (my work brings me from Mae Sai to Chiang Mai to Chiang Klong to Krung ThepÂ… in fact nearly all parts of Thailand) I get to hear the views of people around me.Originally posted by SGdiehard:I laugh when the non Thai said that Thailand is better without Thaksin.
The UK and China are not members on ASEAN, Singapore is. In Bali, Thaksin did NOT grant any interviews and did NOT meet anybody important. Thailand did not scold SG for keeping him, but rather they lodged their displeasure regarding the meeting between Thaksin and our Cabinet Minister and Thaksin's interview on our sunny island, which he used to attack the current government. Please get the reasoning right!Originally posted by lionnoisy:SG eat soft but not hard. The worst is Thai carry one big eye and one
small eye. Thai never scold UK and PRC for keeping him for months.
But scold SG for keeping him for Days!!
Again I would like to reiterate my point, an accused will remain an accused in the eyes of the law unless proven otherwise, we do not judge an accused based on his merits but rather the crimes that he is accused. Thaksin is accused of wrongdoings in Thailand, our fellow ASEAN member and our neighbor, we should be more sensitive and avoid stirring up another political storm cloud that our PM did with China and Taiwan. -
Please understand the reason behind the protest from the Thailand government before posting.Originally posted by tarutaru:Thai only dare to say what to Singapore only. Thaksin had been in UK and US most of the times do the thai government got the balls to say what they said to singapore to them...oh just a reminder Mr Thaksin also went to China. -
One thai forumers view is not indicative of anything. My GF's family who resides in the northern part of Thailand supports Thaksin. In fact, her mum cried upon the ouster. They have largely enjoyed Thaksin's policies but remain ignorant about his alleged underhand business dealings due to a lack of interest in political affairs. (On the other hand, the coup wasn't anything to be proud of either, it was a huge hit on democracy to which I must agree.)Originally posted by Temp01:Hi All.. I am Thai. I hope I can share some Thai point of view.
He might be a good man at heart (although no one will know the true reasoning behind his populist policies), but the fact is he is now accused of wrongdoings. We judge a man accused of murder based on his alleged crimes, according to the laws of the nation, not based on merits he had garnered throughout his life according to others' perceived and often biased values. -
I agree, the people of Thailand are innocent. For those who insist on insulting Thailand please bear that in mind. Insult the present Thai government if you must but please leave the people out of it.Originally posted by 1ThaiVoice:So, whatever this "so called" current Thai Government does, has nothing relating to thai people and our beloved King. -
anyone know if this was what happened?Originally posted by Temp01:4. Singapore is an honor country. There's no reason for Singapore to regret it. The fault is with Thai stupid PM. Since it's one of two country that ruled by military. ASEAN leaders just finish meeting in Phillipine.Singapore Deputry PM is the one who proposed the new idea of punishing coup d'etat in ASEAN members. -
It's about the new charter of ASEAN... SG deputy PM proposed the idea to prevent any changing of government by military or coup d'etat in the ASEAN members during the ASEAN meeting in SEBU Philippine. They still drafting it. But it seemed they agree with it, and Thai and Myanmar probably pretend to agreed with it.Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:anyone know if this was what happened?
This is dued to Myanmar matter, and silently it also mean Thailand, another military ruling country.
What is good for this idea? I hope SG people already know. But I don't think Thai govt. or Myanmar govt understand.
This will increase the regional security, economy etc etc. in the ASEAN region. You can imagine Philippline do not has to afriad of being coup d'etat and let everything being done peacefully or legally.
Such a good idea, SG DPT PM is very smart,......
and the conspiracy theory is that, the Thai junta PM was losing face from that...... They already hate Thaksin creating so much news back to home. So... here came the reason why they made such kind of move against SG, a very good friend country. That's very irresponsible, wasn't it?
Pls let me know if Singaporean business is happy with coup d'etat. I don't think so. The move by SG DPT PM is already well-thought. It's a long term strategy. All the business in Thailand including those belong to foreigner are in risk. -
I spent 1 hour writing funny story about the junta. But somehow i lost it. I write it again.
1. funny thing about the judge......
Last year we had one election. the result was
Thaksin's party : 16 million vote:
No-Vote : 10 million vote
Others : around 2 miiloon vote...
Guess what, the judge said that since no-vote was so high... half of vote for Thaksin (party) is lower than no-vote... therefore ... the election was not valid.
This is the logic of some Thai people who have been propagandized by Thai media and the elite group who thought themself smarter than the other people.
They weight some vote 0.5 and some vote is 1. .... what do you think ? I think it truly look down humanity.
2. Fun thing about Shincorp-Temasek tax-free deal.
Junta said they can reveal the hugh corruption of the taxfree sale within days after the coup. Now it's 3 months time.
The truth is nobody dare to sue Thaksin family, Junta tries so much to find some ministry to sue Thaksin but nobody play with them.
Because everything has been done legally, and explainably in every transaction. They can also sell directly the share to Temasek from British Vergin Island, Ample Rice. But they didn't do that because they want to keep the cash within Thailand, that's good for the country.
That's why they have to find some way to move the share back to Thailand before selling to Temasek via normal stock exchange market which tax-free everywhere.
How come this deal become talk of the town?
Because some smart media who want to get rid of Thaksin from the PMship made up story. And Thai people who do not fully understand the deal, and easily propagandized or fooled .... believe them.
English newspaper in Thailand, both of them...Bangkok Post and The Nation (also bias and hate thaksin) , also play with the campaign...."tax free deal...Thaksin ...so much corrupted" Then all the middle classed and elited class in Thailand who thought they are smart to know that..believe it right away.
It's so funny.. those media propagandize Thais using tactic "you are smart to know, nobody knows it. Poor or rural people don't know it. Be proud."
I have so much plenty of these kind of funny Thai society stuff. Like the new Thai airport ...bla bla bla bla..
The fight in Thailand now.. is the fight between the class in the society. It's something like the revolution that used to happen in Taiwan or China. It's the same kind of the North-South war in the US.
It's going to be the revolution of the people who don't want anymore to be blamed as ignorant and being ruled by the other. They are thinking that there should be equlity between each individual. Each individual has one right and one vote. And not being told that "you are dump" you shouldn't have right to vote, let me rule you.
5 years of Thaksin in the position ignited this chance to them, the real people of Thai. Before that, they are just like slaves being controlled by some elite group.
The coup is mastermind and worked by this elite group, they just temporary brought the power back from the lower or poorer people. They used media to propaganda but after trying for one year but failed... they used the car-bomb to kill Thaksin... and failed again...then they used the military. ... that's the story.
I don't know so much about Dr. Sunyadsen of Taiwan or China. Somebody told me he was a good guy who revolted the social, and it's quite the same kind of thing happen in Thailand. -
There you have it. Our Elites, the pride of SG.Originally posted by maurizio13:He didn't just stepped on China's toe. He realised that he stepped on China's toe, then he stepped on Taiwan's toe just to even the scores. Thereafter, you have both China and Taiwan hating Singapore.
What kind of stupid diplomacy is that?
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And dear friend Singaporean, i have sth to tell you.
Thai media is trying to put hatred into the Thai people's mind.
Manager.co.th publish articles that create hate to Singapore. This is the leader media that make the campaign against Thaksin in the past (and now still doing the job)
In the new article (from many many articles) "Singapore, the neighbor who destroy Thailand" http://www.manager.co.th/Daily/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9500000006378 saying so much bad things about Singapore.
(I'll try to translate part of it)
18 Jan 00.49
Manager daily - From Temasek who took over Shincorp and helping Thaksin to harm Thailand.. Reveal the truth of Singapore "the agent country (who benefit from commission: me)" ... only get exploite benefit from the country without ethic ..... the true sword beside Thai (mean the sword that ready to harm against Thai)...... during the time of Thaksin..... Singaporean capital flow in to take so much advantage from Thai and that destroy national security...... scandal-- rent thai airport to park their airplane. it destroy the thai economy and security... it also take over many many Thai business.
..........................
This is the kind of propaganda I try to tell you ...and it's have been done to Thaksin for one or two year already. What you quote from the Nation or Bangkok Post is the softer version of this. But remain the same kind of propaganda and not reliable.
I suggest people to ignore it. I get used to it already for the lie and so many people try to avoid reading them.
Here comes another funny story about the accusation to Mr. Thaksin that get rid of freedom of speech of the media in Thailand by sueing them. I hope you have the idea right away of what is right and what is wrong. -
If you believe in human rights and freedom of speech, there was nothing wrong in what Singapore did. Thaksin had a valid passport, he was not a fugitive from Thailand with no charges brought against him so far and indeed there was no reason to stop him from entering the country.
It is his right to visit his friends in Singapore and it is not against local nor international law to speak to CNN. Certainly, as long as he acted according to the laws of Singapore, he could legitimately exercised his right to freedom of speech.
So if you believe that freedom of speech and human rights are sacrosanct, you would be hard pressed to find fault with the Singapore government.
But I do not believe that these are absolute values. I am shamelessly utilitarian in my approach and so I criticize the Singapore government's decision to let Thaksin meet Jayakumar and speak to the media. It is obvious that Thaksin is unlikely to speak well of the military government who overthrew his democratically elected government. I do not believe in freedom of speech at all costs, certainly not if it jeopardizes our interests.
Thaksin has no political future. The military government acted undemocratically like a hoarde of gangsters but since the Thai king has supported them, Thaksin has no future. Like it or not, Singapore has to appease the interim government and hope for a quick transition to democratic rule in Thailand.
Respecting Thaksin's rights to freedom of speech puts Singapore's interests at risk. The government has made a serious blunder in this affair. We should have instead arrange for Thaksin to have his interview with CNN in the territory of our competitor...in Malaysia maybe...certainly not on Singapore soil. Let the Thais fight with our competitors and we can reap the benefits of any diplomatic fallout.
Bad call for the Singapore government... -
Thaksin has not been convicted of any crime in a court of law...aren't you pre-judging him? Ever heard of innocent till proven guilty?Originally posted by bangkokboy:He might be a good man at heart (although no one will know the true reasoning behind his populist policies), but the fact is he is now accused of wrongdoings. We judge a man accused of murder based on his alleged crimes, according to the laws of the nation, not based on merits he had garnered throughout his life according to others' perceived and often biased values.
What is clear is that Thaksin enjoys the support of the majority of Thais in the provinces and apart from a military coup, there was no way to beat him in the polls.
Honestly, probably every single Thai PM over the years have been corrupt...the difference is that if Thaksin had been corrupt, he also made lives for the rural poor easier, which accounts for his popularity.
As for laws, it is a well-known fact that Thai business laws have in-built loopholes for years. Every single business that operates in Thailand is aware that with a non-voting Thai nominee, you can control as much of a company as you want in Thailand. That's not new...it's been the practice for years and everyone does it. Incidentally, prostitution is illegal in Thailand. But tell me one person in the world who does not know what goes on in the massage parlours.
Having both eyes wide shut is part of the Thai way of life...all this talk about irregularities of business dealings is purely political. -
To bankokboy, firstly I have to say that you are not really a neutral person regarding Thaksin as a politician. For me, candidly I am a more pro-Thaksin person than an anti-Thaksin person. Your whole message claim that he commit a lot of shady business deals and that he is an accused. However, he was NEVER charged in court at all. In fact no evidence had surfaced to show he have fraudulently break the law. Unless you can show some evidence that he is charged or show evidence he has broke a law, you are accussing Thaksin, and he is not an accused. He is innocent unless proven guilty and that is how most law in the world works. He is not even charged. I really think you have to gather more background knowledge before you claim anyone is a criminal.
About your point on Thaksin visiting Singapore, I have given much points about it as well. Singapore is a sovereign country that have every right to visit anyone and let anyone visit. Thaksin is not an accused and he has every right to visit anyone he wants. When he visit the cabinet minister, it is stated as a private visit and even Thai foreign minister agreed on it. If we get led by the nose and forsake our right to do the things, then we are really a useless nation that cannot stand on our feet. -
S'pore may lose army training site Thursday January 18, 2007,http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/18Jan2007_news02.php
Army chief Sonthi Boonyaratkalin is considering reviewing and possibly cancelling a contract for Singapore to use a military training base in Kanchanaburi if the city-state fails to cooperate on the issue of ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, a highly-placed source said. Singapore would be seriously concerned about a termination of the contract, as it is a small island country without space for military training, the source added. The island republic has been paying to use the military camp in Kanchanaburi province for at least 20 years.
2.PRC sure ask SG go to HAINAN Is.!
The source added Singapore's army has signed an agreement to use the camp for a joint military exercise, known as ''Crescendo'', with its Thai counterparts in Kanchanaburi. The ongoing exercise, which is organised every three years, will end in July.....
The disclosure came amid a souring of relations following Singapore's recent reception of Mr Thaksin.
Gen Sonthi, who led the coup that ousted Mr Thaksin, yesterday blasted the ousted premier's family for selling their telecommunications business to Singapore, saying it could pose a threat to national security.
The army is also in trouble. Our communications and information sent over mobile phones or via satellite could appear in Singapore,'' he said.
''Although Singapore is not our enemy, we are economic rivals. They could be informed of secrets in the army and in the economic sector.''
Gen Sonthi, who is also chairman of the Council for National Security, said the army would adopt certain measures to deal with Singapore. But he promised they would be subtle, and not include a boycott of bilateral military cooperation.
The two countries have maintained cordial military relations, and the army has been trying to keep politics out of military affairs, he added.
CNS spokesman Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd said CNS members had expressed concern over the issue at their meeting yesterday .
A source said ACM Chalit Phukphasuk, CNS deputy chief, would use the current joint military exercise to express Thailand's concern.
Singapore is paying up to a billion baht a year for the use of the army camp in Sai Yok district. The contract is renewed every 10 years.
The Thaksin government also allowed Singapore to lease part of Wing 23 air base in Udon Thani for military flight training.
Former foreign minister Surin Pitsuwan, currently a legislator, cautioned that diplomatic friction could get out of hand.
He raised concerns over possible complications from excessive patriotism, which could be generated by the Singapore issue.
Surachart Bamrungsuk, a security expert at Chulalongkorn University, was critical of the suspension of a civil service exchange programme and retraction of the invitation to Singapore Foreign Minister George Yeo.
The response showed the government ''was overly concerned'' with Mr Thaksin's movements.
Thailand had never before resorted to such retaliation, which showed that Asean members were unable to settle disputes through dialogue, Mr Surachart added.
Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said the Foreign Ministry's response had been carefully considered.
Government spokesman Yongyuth Mayalarb emphasised that other cooperation programmes with Singapore would continue.
Democrat party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said the so-called ''personal matter'' brought up during talks between Singapore Deputy Prime Minister S. Jayakumar and Mr Thaksin concerned business which would have adverse repercussions for Thailand.
He called on the Surayud government to explain its response to Singapore in terms of facts and principles. -
The Thai govt can protest or something..but now they seems to act like a spoilt child.
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Why are you guys keep arguing among yourselves wasting your breathe?
Taksink and his family members are laughing their way to the bank...
Further....who knows there might be someone got some sweetie....
The decision of sale of S h itcorp to tomasick; you guys think Taksink didn't know what will be the consequential before its transaction?
Maybe, he did not expect that it will out to be so bad.. that all.......
Don't get fool by the media.......the truth..... NOBODY WILL KNOW!!!
Politics are hypocrisy!!! They are all out to grab power, fame and personal interested.
Tell me who on Earth in politics do not have gain for personal interest? Other than some or very very few ones are genuinely working for its people.
Not to mention..you know and I know. -
I posted this comments in the other related thread:
I believe our political leaders need to stay out of meeting with Thaksin even if it is a private visit.
This is just being politically sensitive to our neighbours. By meeting with Thaksin simply gives the message that we either have not enough EQ or we are too arrogant. I think our political leaders know better than that.
It is the price of being in politics. All politicians need to know that while they enjoy certain levels of esteem, there is a price to pay for privacy and even meeting friends like this "private visit".
It is quite ill-timed and will cost us politically and economically. Just see what will happen over the next few months. It is just lucky that this meeting is right after our 2006 elections. Imagine this happen just before elections? Will we vote for the 2 DPMs who meet Thaksin without so much care about the ramifications that the visit will cause? -
At first he loved his country and it was ThaI Rahk Thai but after mixng with money crazy people in SIngapore his became Thai Fahk Thai.
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Originally posted by socrates:
Hi guys, sorry about sounding anti or pro thaksin. My message was actually saying he is being accused of shady business that up to now no one can proof that he is guilty or proof him innocent. I agree Thaksin has every right to visit Singapore, that I cannot deny as well and I hope no one interprets me wrongly.
To bankokboy, firstly I have to say that you are not really a neutral person regarding Thaksin as a politician. For me, candidly I am a more pro-Thaksin person than an anti-Thaksin person. Your whole message claim that he commit a lot of shady business deals and that he is an accused. However, he was [b]NEVER charged in court at all. In fact no evidence had surfaced to show he have fraudulently break the law. Unless you can show some evidence that he is charged or show evidence he has broke a law, you are accussing Thaksin, and he is not an accused. He is innocent unless proven guilty and that is how most law in the world works. He is not even charged. I really think you have to gather more background knowledge before you claim anyone is a criminal.
About your point on Thaksin visiting Singapore, I have given much points about it as well. Singapore is a sovereign country that have every right to visit anyone and let anyone visit. Thaksin is not an accused and he has every right to visit anyone he wants. When he visit the cabinet minister, it is stated as a private visit and even Thai foreign minister agreed on it. If we get led by the nose and forsake our right to do the things, then we are really a useless nation that cannot stand on our feet.
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What I feel is that Singapore should not let herself be a pawn in Thailand's political deadlock. Singapore should have remained neutral. -
Yep, politics is shady business. It's like our SAF's hidden law, if you do something wrong, just don't get caught. Unfortunately for Thaksin, his every move was being scrutinized.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Thaksin has not been convicted of any crime in a court of law...aren't you pre-judging him? Ever heard of innocent till proven guilty?
What is clear is that Thaksin enjoys the support of the majority of Thais in the provinces and apart from a military coup, there was no way to beat him in the polls.
Honestly, probably every single Thai PM over the years have been corrupt...the difference is that if Thaksin had been corrupt, he also made lives for the rural poor easier, which accounts for his popularity. -
Thais will forgive and forget if it was the other way around...I really dont know.Taksin is not a fugitive and he can visit any country he wants....just be discreet when meeting friends in high places.How the Thais felt must be like how Singaporeans felt when Christmas Island was sold to Australia.So please chee tong tang pok leh.