punishments in schools...shld they be allowed?
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for the case above, actually the student wrote his own fate...the teacher was very angry tat time. if the student had obeyed orders n slapped himself instead of juz patting, he may nt have been sent out of class to face the whole school...i was seated near the doorway n could see everything clearly. the student stood at the doorway n 'slapped' himself. however, his 'slaps' were so soft tat they resembled more like pats...tis he did thru out the 10min duration...
needless to say when the teacher glanced at his direction, she was infuriated to see tat he wasnt slapping himself at all...from experiences wif tis teacher, she dun usually punish students for long periods...she wil mete out the punishment n then let the student go after abt 10-15min...hence i have reason to believe tat when the teacher glanced at the student after abt 10min, she did have the intention to let him go...however, after seeing him patting himself instead of slapping, she got angrier n instead extended the punishment to outside the class, facing the whole school...
so the student is partly to be blamed for the public caning..he could have avoided it if onli he had slapped himself properly... -
for those interested to noe which school n which yr tis case happened...
it happened in st andrew's secondary school in 1994. any forumers who studied in tat school ard tat period? do drop a note n i wil reveal who the teacher is... -
What!!! 1994 is like 13 years ago!!! When I was in SAS from 1997-2000 there was still plenty of smackdowns going around, and a certain violent (and rather strange) Maths teacher did mend his ways the last I heard from my juniors who are now in there.Originally posted by despondent:for those interested to noe which school n which yr tis case happened...
it happened in st andrew's secondary school in 1994. any forumers who studied in tat school ard tat period? do drop a note n i wil reveal who the teacher is...
And what "iron bras" and whoever in there are still there and the same. -
Punishment is a form of reflection of child's mistake. The teacher have his point of view of punishing them and reflect mistakes done by students. Sometimes can't blame the teacher. Well, caning should be given to girls too if they are mischievious at times.
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:)
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You cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. If parents will not use the rod and teach their brats some manners, the education of other children should not be adversely held back. Since parents are so protective and will not allow teachers to discipline the 'disrespectful bastards' you referred to, they should be thrown out of the class.Originally posted by Hogzilla:It is because of this attitude of the MOE top brass and the grooming of little emperors and empresses by the parents that will breed a whole generation of ungracious boor and brats without any respect for others.
When that really happens, you can throw away services and tourist industry. Why? No one will want to shop at retailers that employs ungracious and disrespectful bastards. Do you want to visit a country with these kind of people running around?
All MNC will not set their HQ in Singapore, why? Because the Singaporeans, then, will have no respect for others. How to clinch any business deal without respect from both parties? Do you expect someone who doesn't respect another one to respect the terms listed on a paper?
Thanks OM, this is the worst suggestion ever made by a living person.
Thankfully, not all children and certainly not all parents are like you. -
let me cite another case tat happened wayback when i was in primary 1...tis happened to my classmate...
we were having chinese lesson in class n we were sitting in front of the class listening to the teacher...then just as the teacher was explaining sth halfway, my classmate who wanted to say sth interrupted her. the teacher was angry tat he interrupted her like tat without raising his hands 1st. she scolded him n ordered him to stand at the back of the class n do recitation. he was to recite " i must raise my hands if i want to speak" in chinese. the teacher ordered he keep on reciting until she said he could stop. while tis may seem an ok punishment, it muz be noted tat he was punished for the rest of the period. i estimate it was abt half an hour. at the end, he was physically tired out from all the recitation. i walked past him a few times n saw him gasping for breath after each recitation...was the punishment too harsh? did he deserve such harsh punishment? 3 pts to note...
1) he was onli a primary 1 student
2) it was the 1st time he was punished for such an offence.
3) he had a habit of interrupting teachers at times
wad r ur views? air them here... -
GIRL'S DESPERATE PLEA TO SCHOOL
Stop picking on my hair
By Veena Bharwani
January 27, 2007
TIE your hair up if it's long. No outlandish or punkish hairstyles. And certainly no dyeing or streaking.
PRI 1: Siti (above, right) with her sister in an album photo. Even as a child, Siti had always had lightly-streaked hair. Her mother had to show her baby photos to her teachers before they believed her
Such rules are common at girls' schools. But what happens if you are born with natural light brown streaks?
Take the case of Eurasian student Siti Mohd Said Galistan.
The Sec 4 Normal-Technical student at Paya Lebar Methodist Girls' School (PLMGS) said she has faced countless scoldings and spot checks from teachers who don't believe her streaks are real.
According to her, the school even threatened to have her hair genetically-tested after her parents spoke to The New Paper about her predicament.
'They just refused to believe the streaks are real. It's very frustrating as every year the same thing happens. I explain and I get scolded,' she said.
Siti, 16, said she was born with light brown streaks in her hair.
Her father, Mr Galistan Joseph Peter, 54, has similar streaks in his hair, said her mother, Madam Salamah Ali, 56, a housekeeper.
Two years ago, Siti said the school even called in a hairdresser to see if Siti was telling the truth about her hair.
'The hairdresser told them my streaks were natural,' she said. Hairstylists we spoke to said it was possible to tell between natural streaks and artificially-coloured streaks by looking at the roots.
If the roots also display the streaks after one month, then its natural.
According to Siti, after the hairstylist had verified that her streaks were natural, her form teacher issued her with a 'hair pass' as a form of explanation for other teachers in the school.
For two years, Siti carried the pass with her. But according to her, the pass, which has yet to be renewed this year, never worked.
SAME OLD PROBLEM
SEC 1: Siti gets into trouble in school for having streaked hair. In Sec 2, she had to carry a special 'hair pass' explaining that the highlights in her hair are natural
In fact, Siti had been having this hairy problem with the school ever since she joined it in Sec 1.
Siti's mother said she has made several trips to the school to explain that Siti's streaks are natural.
She has even gone with baby photos of Siti.
Frustrated with the many complaints this year, Madam Salamah decided to dye Siti's hair dark brown to avoid all the problems.
'I didn't dye it black as it won't be close to Siti's natural hair colour, which is dark brown with light brown streaks.
'Of course, I'm not a professional hairdresser. And so after I dyed it, unfortunately, her hair still appeared to be streaked.
'It's too costly to go to a hairdresser and do it. It would cost $75. I'd rather use the money at the market,' said Madam Salamah, who has four other children and earns $1,800 a month.
She sent Siti to school with an explanatory note on why she did it.
'I didn't want anymore fuss. I just wanted it to be over. I thought with her hair dyed totally, she won't have any more problems.'
SEC 4: Siti with dyed hair. Her mother (left) dyed her hair in a last ditch effort to make her hair look 'normal' -- HEDY KHOO
However, during a spot check on 11 Jan, Siti said she was singled out and scolded again - this time for having dyed hair.
Siti was not allowed to go to class until her mother rushed down to explain.
Said Madam Salamah: 'I took a cab down in the middle of the work day and they told me Siti's hair had to be dyed a much darker colour.
'They wanted me to dye Siti's hair in front of her form teacher and the principal. Why should I do it? Hasn't my daughter been humiliated enough? Dyeing and re-dyeing is very bad for her hair and scalp.
'I paid $24 on a taxi rushing down to talk about the same issue. It's just ridiculous and a waste of time and money,' said Madam Salamah.
'Why can't they focus on more important things like her N Levels, which are coming up this year?
TEARS OF FRUSTRATION
'My daughter has come home and cried many times in frustration because of this,' added Madam Salamah.
Siti claimed all this has affected her morale.
'I really don't like school anymore. I can't concentrate because of this,' she said.
When contacted, the school declined to go into details of Siti's case and would only say in an e-mail response that they had met her parents and that the issue had been resolved.
On their hair policies in general, the school said: 'Students should not have coloured or highlighted hair when they are in school uniform.'
But what happens if a student's hair is naturally coloured? The school did not answer.
Siti's elder sister, Shahida Said, 19, a former PLMGS student, said that hair rules in the school were even stricter in earlier years.
'When I was in Sec 2, the school did not allow students to have long hair. If your hair was below your collar, you had to cut it.
'Your hair was not allowed to be too short as well, as it isn't feminine. A schoolmate of mine had to wear a wig to school because her hair was too short.'
Another former PLMGS student confirmed this incident.
Said the girl, who declined to be named: 'That girl cut her hair so short that she looked like a boy. The school gave her a wig to wear as punishment.
'The didn't want us to have long hair as they didn't want us to waste time making unnecessary trips to the toilet and comb our hair too much.'
The New Paper understands that PLMGS has since adjusted its rules and now allows students to have long hair. -
Discipline is a must. Look at japanese children. How well behaved they are. Look at our kids. How ugly they are. And if they go abroad, they become ugly singaporeans. Where is the value of singapore kids?
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punishments to me should be allowed.
spare the rod, spoil the child.
i remember my primary school days i got the 'magic spoon' on my hand whenever i failed to turn up homework. my bag got flung out of the class, told to sit outside alone.
i look back and i don't hate those teachers, i actually thank them for everything.
i read the reports now, i think the problem ain't the teachers, its the parents -
for the case above tat involved my classmate being ordered to do recitation, he was obviously tired out towards end of lesson...actually he could have 'cheated' on the punishment by nt reciting when the teacher wasnt looking...however, probably out of fear for the teacher, he didnt' cheat' but instead recited continuously without stopping til end of lesson...i witnessed him reciting even when the teacher was looking down n marking bks...
it muz be noted tat tis teacher was known to be fierce...she was very strict wif her students n hence many of us were fearful of her...my classmate recited until he gasped for breath after every recitation. he could be seen breathing thru his mouth...it was a pitiful sight, yet none of us dared plead on his behalf for fear we may end up like him...the teacher though may have been ignorant to the exhaustion my clasmate felt n hence didnt release him from his agony...
the punishment did prove effective though...my classmate learnt his lesson after tat n made it a pt to remember to rasise his hands b4 speaking from then on... -
If I were the student and asked to repeat what i said... I'll repeat it... When asked to slap my face... I'll just stand there and stare at the teacher.
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i think both the teacher and DM had over-reacted. uttering vulgarities, though repulsive and not to be encouraged, could be a passing phrase for some kids. moreover, time has changed and corporal punishment is no longer an effective way of disciplining the present day kids.Originally posted by despondent:so the student is partly to be blamed for the public caning..he could have avoided it if onli he had slapped himself properly... -
Coming from an all-boys school in the past, I think a few flicks of the rotan in the principal's office would work well with lower sec kids.
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that terror could be in some institution for some psychiatric treatment or at home being terrorised by her own badly-adjusted children!Originally posted by fymk:But that particular teacher, I hope she is dead so that she cannot continue abusing children like that. -
i think coparal punishment should not be allowed
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No. You are just taking an easy way out.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:You cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. If parents will not use the rod and teach their brats some manners, the education of other children should not be adversely held back. Since parents are so protective and will not allow teachers to discipline the 'disrespectful bastards' you referred to, they should be thrown out of the class.
Thankfully, not all children and certainly not all parents are like you.
If all these children were thrown out of the class as you recommended, who will be left behind in the class to study? Children are playful and mischevious as they are young and ignorant (meaning they dunno much about the world around them), it is no surprise that they will do something we see as rude.
Upon taking the easy way out, it like after you killed a person, you claimed that it's the weapon that killed the person, not you. Another example, when a student couldn't pass a test or exam, you jumped to the cconclusion that the particular student was lazy and didn't thought of the possiblity of you, as a teacher, didn't use the correct method to teach him. It's this kind of Ah Q thinking that failed to make any(in terms of a nation or race) progess.
It's not the children's behaviour that needs to be corrected, it's the parents' attitude towards disciplining their children.
As what you said, "Thankfully, not all teachers and certainly not all parents are like you." -
well, from my experiences in sch, its stil proven to me tat female teachers r more 'creative' in punishing students...they r the ones who inflict punishments which r more psychological rather than physical...when i was in primary sch, i encountered several female teachers who had a wide variety of punishments. they include things like ear-pulling, standing wif book on top of ur head, recitation(repeating a statement again n again until they tell u to stop), doing half-squats while pulling ur ears, slapping ursel, walking up n down the corridor for 1 whole period cos u were caught walking ard the class without permission...i myself was a victim of a few of these...
i recall an incident in primary sch...it was during a prize presentation rehearsal...when we went to the hall for rehearsal, we saw 2 boys each standing at 1 corner of the stage on top pulling their ears...we later found out tat they were being punished by the teacher-in-charge of the rehearsal. to make it worse, the teacher made them stand facing us. we could see how embarrassed they were. n the teacher kept them there thru out the entire rehearsal!!! so while we were rehearsing, those 2 boys were being punished. can u imagine how embarraseed they muz have felt?? n how tired they muz have been for standing for such a long period??? again, it was done by a female teacher...hmmm...y do female teachers seem to believe in psychological punsihments rather than physical ones? -
so "nua" also wanna complain, back in a certain boys' school we used to get whacked on the palm by a centimetre thick cane almost on a daily basis and we all turned out ok
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I was pretty okay with most of the punishments I got in primary and secondary school...
Except from this kenna !@# teacher who for some reason seemed to hold a grudge against some students in her class... I was one of them. She didn't let up in making life difficult for us or to find ways of double damaging us everytime we screwed up. I remember being punished for nearly two weeks by doing all kinds of silly things over a minor misunderstanding and getting humiliated in front of her by having her toss my books in front of the entire school (it later turned out that she had flipped to the wrong page and missed my homework)... never really understood what exactly was her deal. Incidently she treated other delinquents (many of who were certainly far more deserving of her brand of justice if all things are considered fair) in her class extremely well once they "gumed" with her. You can only consider the effect this had on a fourteen to fifteen year old.
For many times I was seriously tempted to do something rather bad to her, now that I've grown up to be stronger and meaner then her... but better sense got to my head I guess. -
I am for caning. Spare the rod, spoil the child.
However you've gotta draw the line at abuse. Students... kids, teens... they're intelligent and impressionable. You do something unfair, they soak it up like a sponge. It's all about responsibility - if the kid lacks it, you teach it... not mirror his/her actions. -
let me cite a personal case that happened to me n few of my classmates...
it was in primary 3 when these cases happened...we had a chinese teacher who was pretty strict wif noise level...she was nice but didnt like us to tok in class...so she made it a pt to punish whoever were caught toking in class...there were several occassions when several of us got caught...the teacher would call us out, make us stand facing the class n raise both our hands straight up...she will make us stay in tat position for at least 10-15min b4 sending us back to our seats...
while the punishment usually didnt last very long, it muz be noted tat we always went back to our seats wif aching arms...the teacher was very strict wif punishments...she would make sure our hands stayed rite up until the end of it all(each time she caught us wif our hands nt raised properly, she will scold us n the punishment may be prolonged)...after which we will go back n complete our work...it was tough doing our work wif aching arms...though the punishment was harsh n shameful(in front of whole class), it proved quite effective as most of us dared nt tok in class after tat...
again it was a female teahcer who meted out tis creative punishment... -
hello....so wif reference to the case above...do u forumers tink the teacher did the rite thing?
i personally feel she meant well...the punishment was harsh; i was a victim to it once...but come to tink of it...toking in class is a common thing to do in class...the teacher had to tink for those students who were busy doing thier work quietly...besides, she was harsh but nt unreasonable...she would nt overdo the punishment...hardly any of us ever went back in tears from the aching n pain inflicted on us...our arms were painful but stil bearable...there were of cuz repeated offenders who were unrepentant despite 1st punishment...the teacher would mete out the same punishment but wif a longer duration...a few of my classmates who went thru tis had to keep their hands straight up for almost entire period...u could the grimace on some of their faces after more than 15min...usually the teacher will onli release them after punishing them for close to half an hr n making them promise not to tok in class again...
i recall a case in fact where a talkative student who had been punished a few times b4 for toking was caught toking away in class again...infuriated, the teacher ordered him to the front...but tis time she made the student bring his sch bag along to the front...after scolding him a while, she ordered him to stand next to her table n carry his schbag above his head, keeping his hands straight up...it was a painful experience for the student...in less than 10min, he was alredi grimacing from the pain but the teacher ignored his grimace n ordered his hands to remain straight up...tis was the onli incident during tat yr tat the teacher showed no mercy...in the end, the teacher onli released the student when she saw tears rolling down his eyes...she gave him a stern warning tat if he disrupted the class again, she will make him knee-bend n carry his bag above his head for the entire lesson...
it appears clear to me tat the teacher did tat for our own gd...she was juz doing her job to educate us on the rite values in classroom...
it is interesting though how the teacher got started on tis method of punishment...will tok abt tis in my next post.. -
don't think the punishment is overboard though, like you said rather creative.
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when i was schooling, slapping students by teachers was common. i've seen this particular teacher drag out a student for no apparent reason at all and slap him hard too. right in front of everyone at the canteen, because at that time everyone was assembling as recess came to a close.
caning was common too. i also remember one time when my class was noisy or something. and everyone took turns to be hit on both hands at least twice with the long wooden ruler that was in class. the ruler eventually broke though.
back in the old days, if one were punished by a teacher, if one were to tell one's parents, one would be hit even more to add on to the teacher's punishment. but nowadays, if one is punished, a parent would end up taking action against the teacher.
just thought to compare school days then and now. i do believe that punishment is necessary. however, it should only be used as a deterrence, i feel.
and a balance needs to be drawn: kids shouldn't behave like brats, and teachers shouldn't behave like thugs either. after all, it takes two hands to clap. it's easier said than done, but hopefully the situation gets better.