More foreign doctors to increase capacity and lower costs
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You might want to name a few countries where they provide free lunch.Originally posted by eyebuzz:since when gahmen pay anything for anything, they practise the no free lunch game, the only SURE thing is that they make SURE people pay for the policies... where got HOPE for anything LESS...
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In japan, they would rather repair something then replacing it even though the cost of replacement is lower than repair.Originally posted by foomwee88:OM+=lol:
In Japen, they emphasize when u repair something ,u must ensure to do it right at first go,otherwise, we have to spend more cost if complication arises!!!
Futhermore, as a Doc is dealing with human life , quality of the health care is the utmost important matter to us,no major mistake at all can be allowed when repairing the human body!!!!
Bringing in foreign doctors of good quality will only increase the cost of health care instead of lowering it,the reasons r as follows;
Firstly, the not so well trained Doc will give more problem or double work to the well trained Doc
Secondly,the well trained foreign Docs will migrate elsewhere when their pay doennt commensurate with market rates in developed countries.
Finally as the cost of living is high in Spore,we have to provide the good foreign Docs with accomodation etc
Please do not simply speculate that foreign doctors are not good enough just bcause they are not WHITE in color. And do you have reason to believe that ALL Singapore doctors are good? Personally I have seen too many fresh grad Singapore doctors that are full of crab. -
First, u missed my point about 'free lunch'.Originally posted by Gazelle:You might want to name a few countries where they provide free lunch.
Second, haven't u been getting 'free lunches' as u grow up from ur immediate family, relatives, even friends at times.
Third, wither state w/o families, so which countries don't required 'loyalties' from its people, isn't that 'free lunches' from the people to states or maybe u prefer 'nomads'. Haiz... saying the 'obvious'...
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1) You still havent answer my question, name me a country in this world that provide free lunch. In this case, absolutely free healthcare. (cut that crap about free healthcare when you are paying 45% income tax)Originally posted by eyebuzz:First, u missed my point about 'free lunch'.
Second, haven't u been getting 'free lunches' as u grow up from ur immediate family, relatives, even friends at times.
Third, wither state w/o families, so which countries don't required 'loyalties' from its people, isn't that 'free lunches' from the people to states or maybe u prefer 'nomads'. Haiz... saying the 'obvious'...
2) I am sure your parents and relatives are all going to sleeping in the street when they get old if you consider that as free lunch.
3) Name me a country that 100% of the citizen are happy with the government policy and is willing to die for their country. -
Originally posted by Gazelle:
first, what u implied was neither my stand nor my words, so, answer urself, that is if you can answer it and I'm sure ur intelligence can't bring u to accept ur type of questionings urself even... (of course, failing which, u will ... as usual...)
1) You still havent answer my question, name me a country in this world that provide free lunch. In this case, absolutely free healthcare. (cut that crap about free healthcare when you are paying 45% income tax)
2) I am sure your parents and relatives are all going to sleeping in the street when they get old if you consider that as free lunch.
3) Name me a country that 100% of the citizen are happy with the government policy and is willing to die for their country.
second, so does it made u feel any more brilliant than u already r than throwing superlative teasers?
third, my parents and relatives...ha.. they are cared for by the countries they reside in, in any case, individually... there are enough, so don't need ur pretenses... -
1) Brunei!Originally posted by Gazelle:1) You still havent answer my question, name me a country in this world that provide free lunch. In this case, absolutely free healthcare. (cut that crap about free healthcare when you are paying 45% income tax)
2) I am sure your parents and relatives are all going to sleeping in the street when they get old if you consider that as free lunch.
3) Name me a country that 100% of the citizen are happy with the government policy and is willing to die for their country.
http://www.brunei.gov.bn/government/plan.htm
2)
3) Japan!! Can see from the performance of Kamikaze pilots during WW2. -
Maybe you would like to tell us in which country where the government will take care of its people without having to generate incomes from taxes.Originally posted by eyebuzz:third, my parents and relatives...ha.. they are cared for by the countries they reside in, in any case, individually... there are enough, so don't need ur pretenses...
So what if they have enough, that has got nothing to do with the people seeking medical treatment at polyclinic.
Maybe you should just start a thread talking about medical services in private hospital instead of criticising the government's effort to improve medical services to those lesser people. -
Are you suggesting that LKY should be collecting supersports car?Originally posted by maurizio13:1) Brunei!
http://www.brunei.gov.bn/government/plan.htm
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3) Japan!! Can see from the performance of Kamikaze pilots during WW2. -
Well, he was given some discount for a merc or condo some time back.Originally posted by Gazelle:Are you suggesting that LKY should be collecting supersports car? -
Whether he collects sports car or not is irrelevant (though I am very sure he has the ability to), it's a personal choice, like you deciding what hobbies you want to take up. You asked for a country with free healthcare, I just provided you one.Originally posted by Gazelle:Are you suggesting that LKY should be collecting supersports car?
Ok. Don't want to waste my precious time with you, happy posting.
Hehehe...... -
double post
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why not suggest that we start invest in a multi billion dollar drilling project to see if there is instead oil in this country.Originally posted by maurizio13:Whether he collects sports car or not is irrelevant, you asked for a country with free healthcare. I just provided you one. -
from u, for u, because of u, for what... how much for consultation fee, leh?...Originally posted by Gazelle:Maybe you would like to tell us in which country where the government will take care of its people without having to generate incomes from taxes.
So what if they have enough, that has got nothing to do with the people seeking medical treatment at polyclinic.
Maybe you should just start a thread talking about medical services in private hospital instead of criticising the government's effort to improve medical services to those lesser people.
when did i? remind me? Gazelle, "...instead of criticising the government's effort to improve medical services to those lesser people." -
I think u r talking 2 a Gods againOriginally posted by eyebuzz:from u, for u, because of u, for what... how much for consultation fee, leh?...
when did i? remind me? Gazelle, "...instead of criticising the government's effort to improve medical services to those lesser people." -
not too long ago, oxfordmushroom blindly insisted the search for foreign doctors wasn't due to shortage but to lower cost...the report today debunks that...the medical authorities are searching for doctors in the uk and aussie, not exactly your low rated indian medics....
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I m fully agreed with U on this matter!!!Originally posted by maurizio13:Whether he collects sports car or not is irrelevant (though I am very sure he has the ability to), it's a personal choice, like you deciding what hobbies you want to take up. You asked for a country with free healthcare, I just provided you one.
Ok. Don't want to waste my precious time with you, happy posting.
Hehehe......
I was in Brunei in 1996 untill last yr!!!!!
We had made our $ but dont insult a country n their ppls.pls!!!!!
I feel ashame of u who insulted Brunei!!!!Sillyporeans!!!!wake up yr bloody mind!!! I m Sporean n dont like 2 c Silkapore,u know!!! -
To cut n paste job in order to make a living ,mah,pls 4 give him during this festive time!!!~Originally posted by countdracula:not too long ago, oxfordmushroom blindly insisted the search for foreign doctors wasn't due to shortage but to lower cost...the report today debunks that...the medical authorities are searching for doctors in the uk and aussie, not exactly your low rated indian medics.... -
Either you haven't read my posts or you need lessons in English Comprehension. I have always said there is a shortage of doctors in the public sector, due to the loss of doctors to the private sector. What we face is a problem of distribution.Originally posted by countdracula:not too long ago, oxfordmushroom blindly insisted the search for foreign doctors wasn't due to shortage but to lower cost...the report today debunks that...the medical authorities are searching for doctors in the uk and aussie, not exactly your low rated indian medics....
As Singaporeans do not want to pay more for healthcare and yet demand shorter waiting times, we need to beef up the number of public sector doctors. That's why I have always said we will have to recruit foreign doctors.
You should read the papers more. Western countries are now sending back the cheap foreign junior doctors (mainly from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh) to their home countries as they have enough junior doctors of their own. The UK in particular is not going to renew the contract of thousands of NHS doctors (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6372895.stm). MOH is taking advantage of that to recruit them. Our pay will be much lower than what they used to get in UK, but these blokes have no choice. It's either lower pay in Singapore or even lower pay in Bangalore.
We are also losing specialists or senior doctors to the private sector at such a rate that we don't have enough to serve the foreign patients in public hospitals, not to mention local patients. Trying to recruit specialists from UK and Australia will be more difficult, in view of the higher pay they receive in UK and Australia. Our advantage is the lower taxes and an easier climate. The younger, ambitious specialists will not come, but those in their 60s who have already obtained their pensions and looking for a retirement job may be persuaded to take up a part-time job in Singapore. -
haha...see how quickly you change your tune...when it suits you, the government has made huge amounts of profits from its investments. When it doesn't, the government has wasted billions of taxpayers' monies in its investmentsOriginally posted by Atobe:With your PhD in the field of medicine, why do you insist on imposing your authority - with such limited expertise - in other areas that you are unfamiliar with, and defending your unfamiliar turf as if you are the only owner ?
The revenue of this Government is NOT necessarily from taxes imposed on Singaporeans; but also from the huge amounts of profits that they have made from the investments of the SINGAPORE RESERVES.
The SINGAPORE RESERVES have been accumulated from a variety of TAXES paid by Singaporeans - directly and indirectly.
The huge amounts of annual profits that have been annually reported from the vast stable of Government Owned and Linked Companies is much larger than all the various direct and indirect taxes paid by Singaporeans.
These profits from the various Government Owned and Linked Companies are seldom returned to the Treasury, but remained in the coffers of the respective Companies - paying million dollar salaries to retired political cronies assigned to head the various Companies as decided by the Ruling Political Party.
Next, you make allegations amounting to defamation to the effect that these profits are siphoned off to 'retired political cronies'. Hiding behind the cloak of anonymity to make defamatory remarks without a shred of evidence....not afraid that the efficient Singapore government would sue you?
A responsible government cannot run a health service based on investment profits. When the lean years come, when the global economy turns for the worse, can a government cut its healthcare spending? Sure, you can provide cheap healthcare for a year whilst the bull run is on and then let patients die during the next three years when bear market rules...is that responsible government? Healthcare financing also has to be sustainable in the long run. -
Dr Khaw appears to be very receptive. Wait until these Indian FT doctors get attached to the polyclinics and let's see whether they can speak the local dialects. Or maybe they are so smart they can ace higher Chinese at 'O' level in 2 years.
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Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
How pathetic can you be - toiling over 16 days to think of a way to respond to my post made on 6 February 2007 ? Was it so difficult ?
Original post by Atobe:
With your PhD in the field of medicine, why do you insist on imposing your authority - with such limited expertise - in other areas that you are unfamiliar with, and defending your unfamiliar turf as if you are the only owner ?
The revenue of this Government is NOT necessarily from taxes imposed on Singaporeans; but also from the huge amounts of profits that they have made from the investments of the SINGAPORE RESERVES.
The SINGAPORE RESERVES have been accumulated from a variety of TAXES paid by Singaporeans - directly and indirectly.
The huge amounts of annual profits that have been annually reported from the vast stable of Government Owned and Linked Companies is much larger than all the various direct and indirect taxes paid by Singaporeans.
These profits from the various Government Owned and Linked Companies are seldom returned to the Treasury, but remained in the coffers of the respective Companies - paying million dollar salaries to retired political cronies assigned to head the various Companies as decided by the Ruling Political Party.
haha...see how quickly you change your tune...when it suits you, the government has made huge amounts of profits from its investments. When it doesn't, the government has wasted billions of taxpayers' monies in its investments
Next, you make allegations amounting to defamation to the effect that these profits are siphoned off to 'retired political cronies'. Hiding behind the cloak of anonymity to make defamatory remarks without a shred of evidence....not afraid that the efficient Singapore government would sue you?
Was there a contradiction in my post ?
The amount of profits is undeniably large counted in billions; and as previously asked in another thread - what was the amount that was lost in the process of achieving this profit ?
Without transparency in accounting - when even the Elected President cannot have access to the proper accounting of our National Reserves - (for those persons hung up on saffron fragrance and unable to think, this NR refers to Financial Reserves of the State) - can anyone have any accurate accounting of the actual amounts of our Reserves that have been put to work - and lost - to earn those proudly declared billion dollar profits ?
Over the last ten years, Temasek and its subsidiaries, as well as the GIC, have made quite a few stellar investment losses with its investments in Overseas Industrial Parks, Foreign Bank take-overs, Telecom Companies, and Foreign Airlines - and the most recent US$3 Billion investment fiasco in Shin Corp.
As recently as end-2006, not much publicity was given to the investments made by Temasek as a major shareholder in a loss making US Bio-Medical Company - with 2006 Revenue at US$14.7 Million and 2006 Net Loss of US$23.1 Million.
"The company is projecting a net loss for 2007 of between $32 million and $35 million and a net cash burn, excluding equity investments, of $27 million to $30 million."
Within the colorful reports prepared byTemasek showing a wide portfolio of investments ranging from a 5 per cent stake in a private Vietnamese Bakery, and major shareholdings in Bio-medical Research Laboratories, to direct take-over or minority equity stakes in Foreign State or Private Enterprises in hotels, banks, transportation - what else remains concealed in a cloak of state legislated secrecy, and not revealed in the carefully prepared colorful reports ? Where are the provisions for projected losses ?
If you wish to exaggerate, at least use some common sense, which we can forgive you for lacking in this most basic of human characteristic, as it is evidently missing in you.
A responsible government cannot run a health service based on investment profits. When the lean years come, when the global economy turns for the worse, can a government cut its healthcare spending? Sure, you can provide cheap healthcare for a year whilst the bull run is on and then let patients die during the next three years when bear market rules...is that responsible government? Healthcare financing also has to be sustainable in the long run.
What is the Annual Budget allocated for Health that is still insufficient, and result in the atrocious medical and hospital charges that require even the lowest wage earner in Singapore to pay for medical attention ?
Was it not the original intention of the Singapore Government to divest its own responsibility of an affordable health care system by restructuring Public Hospitals into Quasi Government Hospitals, and expecting these hospitals to operate along the profit-making lines of Private Hospitals ?
Did you not previously agree that a small percentage of the profits made by Temasek and / or GIC would be sufficient to pay the annual premium of a National Health Insurance Plan ?
Such a National Health Insurance Plan will allow those who need medical attention to obtain the best and with cost fully covered under such an Insurance Plan.
Instead of slurping the empty hands of an unappreciative Government to your hollow talent, you may find some small token of appreciation if you can display some sense in your thought process. -
At least he toil over 16 days to respond to your post, he still hasn't brainstorm enough to respond to my query about his voodoo mathematics.
How can foreign doctors lower cost?
Which is a direct contradiction to his topic title. -
If we dont have foreign nurses and doctors to satisfy the demand for public health care, we will have to pay huge salary to entice Singaporeans doctors and nurses to remain in public sectors.Originally posted by maurizio13:At least he toil over 16 days to respond to your post, he still hasn't brainstorm enough to respond to my query about his voodoo mathematics.
How can foreign doctors lower cost?
Which is a direct contradiction to his topic title. -
Originally posted by Atobe:
Unlike you, not everyone is so pathetic that they haven't got anything else better to do than live in this forum. You are my entertainment...I will only deal with you at my leisure. My professional time is more valuable than you can afford
How pathetic can you be - toiling over 16 days to think of a way to respond to my post made on 6 February 2007 ? Was it so difficult ?what else remains concealed in a cloak of state legislated secrecy, and not revealed in the carefully prepared colorful reports ? Where are the provisions for projected losses ?
When they reveal profits in their annual reports, you choose to ignore them and call them colourful reports. Why should anyone believe in your allegations? Go to the press with your evidence, if you have any.
You contradict yourself time and again, first insisting that the government should subsidize healthcare because it made money, then in the same breath claim that the government has lost huge sums of money. You cannot have it both ways. Make up your mind...you cannot even cary a consistent argument.What is the Annual Budget allocated for Health that is still insufficient, and result in the atrocious medical and hospital charges that require even the lowest wage earner in Singapore to pay for medical attention ?
If anything at all, healthcare charges in the public sector are far too low. You obviously have no clue as to the value of highly trained health professionals and the cost of patented drugs. You are trying to advocate a healthcare system entirely funded by taxes, so Singaporeans do not have to pay for medical attention? Are Singaporeans prepared to pay higher taxes? With an aging population, the burden of the healthcare costs will fall increasingly on the working young. Haven't you seen the problems of the NHS? Such a system will not work.Was it not the original intention of the Singapore Government to divest its own responsibility of an affordable health care system by restructuring Public Hospitals into Quasi Government Hospitals, and expecting these hospitals to operate along the profit-making lines of Private Hospitals ?
If public hospitals are trying to make profit from local patients, they have a strange way of doing it, when their charges are so low for the majority of subsidized patients they serve. Use your brain!
So you admit that Temasek and GIC are making profits then? The answer is in your question...who pays the premium during the year when GIC and Temasek loses money? The profits during a year of plenty like recent years when the economy is doing may well be sufficient to cover the annual premium of a national health insurance plan, but what happens when the economy encounters a downturn? All Singaporeans will lose their health insurance?
Did you not previously agree that a small percentage of the profits made by Temasek and / or GIC would be sufficient to pay the annual premium of a National Health Insurance Plan ?
In addition, what should be included in a national insurance plan? Our medishield is a national insurance plan with a low premium. If we want it to cover expensive healthcare items like Herceptin for breast cancer, our premiums will have to go up. If we are going to prescribe Herceptin to all early breast cancer patients in Singapore and Rituximab to all suitable lymphoma patients, even the profits of Temasek in a good year will not be enough to pay the annual premium required.
No, the government should provide a basic level of healthcare that is affordable under the 3M system of health funding we have. If you want anything more, you will have to fund it yourself.
Our Medisave system ensures there is personal responsibility for individual healthcare. You save up for your own healthcare needs. If you don't smnoke and drink, you have a better chance of not consuming as much healthcare as theose who do. If you earn more, you can afford a better hospital class. If you earn less and have less in your medisave account, you go for a more basic package. That is fair.
To cater to the unfortunate instances when Singaporeans require expensive hospital care, there is the medical insurance policy Medishield. By pooling risks, this basic health insurance policy is made very affordable. In addition to personal contribution to one's future healthcare needs, this is a form of shared responsibility for the healthcare needs of society. By pooling risks, the healthier ones are paying to make healthcare costs affordable for the less healthy ones.
Third, the government has created an endowment plan from public funds for the very poor for whom even both Medisave and Medishield are not sufficient for their heathcare needs. It is right that the government should use public funds only for the poorest in this way.
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I have answered your questions more than once with figures from official government sources showing that the cost of a doctor from Bangalore is a small fraction of that in Singapore. So the way you debate an issue is to ignore any facts to which you have no answer and just repeating your question like a tape recorder?Originally posted by maurizio13:At least he toil over 16 days to respond to your post, he still hasn't brainstorm enough to respond to my query about his voodoo mathematics.
How can foreign doctors lower cost?
Which is a direct contradiction to his topic title.
Grow up, kid!